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-   -   Windshield replacement - biggest scam on the planet? (https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548345)

KevinC 06-13-2011 08:14 PM

Windshield replacement - biggest scam on the planet?
 
I'm curious if this happens elsewhere, or is endemic to Arizona? We have all kinds of shady glass dealers out here, advertising stuff like "we'll pay you $200 to replace your windshield!", various offers for free stuff, coupons, etc.. one joint, about 7 years ago when I moved here, was advertising 24 or 48 or some crazy number of free dinners at a local Mexican restaurant (probably the owner's brother-in-law's joint or something). A shady repair company that fixed a couple of chips for me years ago calls me periodically, wanting to replace the windshield and hand me $100 for the privilege. WTH??!!

I have full glass coverage, which means I pay no deductible for either a repair, or if deemed necessary (long crack, damage in driver's direct field of vision, etc), a replacement. If these scheisters are willing to fork over $200 in cash, they are obviously ripping off the insurance companies, no?

So I finally took a shot in my direct view. I just happened to be visiting my State Farm agent a couple of days later and inquired about a replacement, since this damage was directly in front of me. He said it shouldn't be a problem and handed me a business card of a local family-owned glass shop. I contacted the guy and told him I wanted an OEM windshield, if it could be done with minimal out-of-pocket from me. He called me back the next day and said that the cost was such that State Farm would cover it in full - no out-of-pocket to me. (And never any BS about kicking me back some money, or pressure to use a generic windshield). Cool.

So today the deed was done. The work looks fine, though the piece of tape they put on both sides and over onto the roof baked into the paint on a 100-degree afternoon and was a PITA to remove completely. The bill shows a list price of $958.60 for the windshield, with a "net" price of $814.81 (discount to the carrier?), plus $90 for adhesive, and another $45.34 for a new seal (BMW p/n 51 31 7 017 021). Total cost to State Farm, tax included: $1,136.61.

How the heck can they cover this? I'm ASSuming a generic windshield would have been a fair amount cheaper. And what's with the shady guys overbilling to the extent that they're willing to give cash and prizes to the car owner? We all know who pays - you and I, through higher premiums. Pisses me off.

kostverloren 06-13-2011 09:13 PM

Outrageous!

WestCDA 06-14-2011 12:30 AM

I had my 2006 Z4 windshield replaced (with rain sensor) here in Calgary, Alberta about a month ago.

I had full glass insurance on it, with a 250 deductible, and called the insurance company to inquire about getting it replaced. She told me that while they had recommended shops, I could get it replaced wherever I wanted - but they would cover 985 dollars or thereabouts. I called a local glass company to inquire how much it would cost for a replacement and was told 395 (or something just south of 400 dollars). When I told her it was insurance they quickly said that price was if I replaced it out of pocket, not for insurance claims.

Ended up costing me 100 dollars - the glass company paid the rest of the deductible. Glass was PGW, which is the new name of PPG. The original windshield was PPG with a BMW logo. The glass company told me the replacement windshield would be PGW, and might or might not have a BMW logo on it (it didn't). Installation was fine, windshield and rain sensor are working well - but it does make me wonder about that 600 dollar differential ....

KevinC 06-14-2011 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCDA (Post 6130131)
When I told her it was insurance they quickly said that price was if I replaced it out of pocket, not for insurance claims.

And therein lies the problem - how can it be legit to charge one price if out of pocket (and we can rest assured they're making a reasonable profit at that price - these guys aren't in business to be charitable) - but another, way-jacked up price if insurance is paying? That should be criminal. I'm shocked that the insurance industry lets this go on, as powerful as they tend to be politically.

I was told that I'd get a PGW too if it were a generic. What I wound up with is identical to the original - BMW logo, and still marked PPG. Probably been sitting somewhere for a few years.

dougmcintyre 06-14-2011 07:06 AM

Couple of months ago my wife had a hysterectomy. Stated on the hospital bill, the "normal" charge was $24,000. And the amount charged to my insurance was $12,000.

GeorgeT 06-14-2011 07:53 AM

Had the windshield in my 7 Series replaced last year due to a crack that radiated out from a "star". SC requires full coverage on windshield replacement thank goodness. My ins. agent recommended a regional shop and I demanded that they use OEM BMW glass. They did and the bill was just over $1500 (my BMW dealer quoted $1900). The glass is BMW complete with the LOGO, heating strips and rain sensor prism.

Living Dead 06-14-2011 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougmcintyre (Post 6130411)
Couple of months ago my wife had a hysterectomy. Stated on the hospital bill, the "normal" charge was $24,000. And the amount charged to my insurance was $12,000.

Last summer I was out of work and not insured, I had to go to the doctor and since I didn't have insurance I thought I was going to be hit with a big bill, I was instead charged $40 which is $10 less than my co-pay was. Previously when I had insurance the doctor billed $150 for the visit, was paid $120 from the insurance and took $50 from me.

Sorry for the non BMW rant but it seems to me all insurance if full of corruption and stupidity, I can only imagine what car insurance would be like if the government provided it.

When the consumer is taken out of the picture and a 3rd party is paying all sorts of problems ensue.

Ron Stygar 06-14-2011 08:25 AM

Windshield
 
http://www.penskeparts.com/DiagramsR...iagram=51_6051

aestheticstorm 06-14-2011 07:40 PM

Back when I lived in South Dakota, a popular windshield shop offered a nice prime rib for your patronage.

bion 06-16-2011 07:55 PM

I had no comprehinsive on my sons car and I bought the glass myself. 145 out the door. LAbor was 45 and material 30. I bought the best two part eurothane as it cures faster. Many insurance companies will waive the deductable on non oem Windshields. When I worked for Mercedes I was priveliged to see the sost on a 1500 back glass and it was 215. lot of mark up there . Also a lot of breakage in shipping that results in 100% loss to someone. We had a windshiel made for a rare gt40 Roadster that got broken bt Ford. The first one from england was 15,000 .THe next two spares where 250 each and that was shipped from the UK. Its just sand and heat. Some of the tinted and rain sensor are pricey and non oem do not work.The guy giving you money back is charging your insurance company a premium price and still makes a bundle. But in the long run it costs us all in higher premiums.

Kamdog 06-16-2011 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Dead (Post 6130519)
Last summer I was out of work and not insured, I had to go to the doctor and since I didn't have insurance I thought I was going to be hit with a big bill, I was instead charged $40 which is $10 less than my co-pay was. Previously when I had insurance the doctor billed $150 for the visit, was paid $120 from the insurance and took $50 from me.

Sorry for the non BMW rant but it seems to me all insurance if full of corruption and stupidity, I can only imagine what car insurance would be like if the government provided it.

When the consumer is taken out of the picture and a 3rd party is paying all sorts of problems ensue.


I wonder if it is a coincidence that the insurance industry is a huge contributor to Washington?

Mpire 06-16-2011 08:24 PM

You guys are totally missing the point.

You have to PAY SOMEONE TO DEAL WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANY.

So yes, it SHOULD be cheaper when you pay cash.

On average, there are 3 medical billing people for each physician. If you pay cash, those people don't have to do anything.

So yes, things are cheaper when you don't have to fight with the insurance company and wait around for them to pay you.

Mpire 06-16-2011 08:26 PM

Is there any aftermarket glass that is not PPG or BMW that is HARDER than stock?

BMW windshields are so soft and they pit too easily if you ask me.

Roundelnoob 06-16-2011 11:46 PM

I have used Safelight/Elite for windshields for four cars. The insurance company covers glass repairs with a low deductable for replacement. I think they are nationwide and not so shady, and they fixed everything right, including the Jeep which whistled with the crap job done by a lazy installer the previous time. The Z3 job was perfect, and they did great with my 325Ci a few years back.

Profiting off the insurance company just will drive up costs for everyone eventually. Hopefully personal ethics of the larger population will win over the quick buck for scammers.

touring intl 06-17-2011 06:18 AM

When we first got a used Z3 the windshield needed to be replaced (among other things) cost for eveything was like $250 cash (non oem).

Mpire 06-17-2011 06:50 AM

Florida requires the insurance company to replace the windshield.

No deductible, no questions asked.

Its usually south of $400 for everything, even with BMW glass.

Regardless, who else makes BMW Z3 windshields other than PPG?

WestCDA 06-17-2011 07:48 AM

Quote:

You guys are totally missing the point.

You have to PAY SOMEONE TO DEAL WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANY.
No, I don't think I'm missing the point. I'm not disputing the fact that third party billing means additional work for the glass shop, vs. simply collecting the bill from the owner at the time the car is done. The labor and material costs for the windshield are exactly the same.

What I don't find reasonable is that this 'service' seems to be several hundred dollars additional. In my case I contacted my insurance company and they faxed all the paperwork to the glass shop I specified. The glass shop would then have to invoice the insurance company and probably wait 30 days or more for their money - how much is that worth?

JLORE 06-17-2011 08:09 AM

Had a '63 Austin Healey windshield replaced as part of a resto and it cost $450 total for WS and labor. No insurance. I'm sure it's more now. Thank goodness more people have insurance than not, that way we can all get things cheaper.

Mpire 06-17-2011 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCDA (Post 6137235)
No, I don't think I'm missing the point. I'm not disputing the fact that third party billing means additional work for the glass shop, vs. simply collecting the bill from the owner at the time the car is done. The labor and material costs for the windshield are exactly the same.

What I don't find reasonable is that this 'service' seems to be several hundred dollars additional. In my case I contacted my insurance company and they faxed all the paperwork to the glass shop I specified. The glass shop would then have to invoice the insurance company and probably wait 30 days or more for their money - how much is that worth?

Someone originally asked why doctor's visits were so expensive when using insurance vs paying cash.

I am sure its not the exact same when it comes to the windshield business, but our insurance is subsidizing the whole thing I am sure.

I think I need to get a rock chip this weekend and get a new windshield installed.

Thanks for the reminder.

Randy Forbes 06-17-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpire (Post 6136626)
You guys are totally missing the point.

You have to PAY SOMEONE TO DEAL WITH THE INSURANCE COMPANY.

So yes, it SHOULD be cheaper when you pay cash.

On average, there are 3 medical billing people for each physician. If you pay cash, those people don't have to do anything.

So yes, things are cheaper when you don't have to fight with the insurance company and wait around for them to pay you.

I learned that while working in the oil field; The Big Oil Companies took 120 days to pay (4 mos.) so the little Mom & pop supporting businesses charged triple or quaudruple to them, compared to if you walked in to buy the same items or service with cash. The Little Guy had to carry them on their backs, and wanted compensation.

The way Sue talks about getting insurance payments in her practice, it sounds like much of the same, only difference in her case, is that there's just one (1) price list (she will discount to cash vs credit card, that much I know).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLORE (Post 6137282)
Had a '63 Austin Healey windshield replaced as part of a resto and it cost $450 total for WS and labor. No insurance. I'm sure it's more now. Thank goodness more people have insurance than not, that way we can all get things cheaper.

Hi Johnny, I forgot that you were over here now too! Things must be going pretty good with your German sportscar, as I don't see too many questions about service or problems. Big difference compared to the Healey!

I'll have to drive mine up to a major benefit car show tomorrow (exhibiting on Sunday). The weather is threatening (and my back already hates me) but I'm still excited to have been invited to attend. Mine will be one of, I'm told, only three (3) Big Healeys representing Post-World War II British sportscar design. See: https://www.facebook.com/pages/EyesO...816050?sk=wall

dougmcintyre 06-17-2011 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpire (Post 6137294)
Someone originally asked why doctor's visits were so expensive when using insurance vs paying cash.

Except when it isn't. Go back to my post. The hospital billed the insurance company for only half of the "normal" charge. The non-insured pay full tab.

2.3z3 06-17-2011 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougmcintyre (Post 6137722)
Except when it isn't. Go back to my post. The hospital billed the insurance company for only half of the "normal" charge. The non-insured pay full tab.

+1
I have worked in Radiology for over 20 years if we charge $12,000.00 for a test the
insurance company pays us approx. $2,000.00 the poor guy w/o insurance will only get 20%
off if he pays the day of service. :yikes: If you don't have insurance and go to a Imaging
Center instead of a hospital you can get the same test for approx $1,200.00.:)

Swr 17 09-12-2019 09:25 PM

As a windshield shop I can tell you most insurance companies won't approve OEM glass unless it's a new car or aftermarket isn't available. And they have set rates they pay for replacements based on what's known as nags pricing which is usually more then we charge for cash customers. State farm tends to pay the most. For OEM glass most insurance pays dealer list price.


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