Diesel engine oil - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners & Enthusiasts

BMW Diesel Owners & Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-27-2018, 08:53 AM
shikbas shikbas is offline
LOVE MY BMW
Location: Pa
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 348
Mein Auto: 14 535d
Diesel engine oil

Hello
Trying to buy oil for 535d,I see different brands around,what are your recommendations please?
thanks
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:08 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 12,888
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikbas View Post
Hello
Trying to buy oil for 535d,I see different brands around,what are your recommendations please? thanks
BMW Long Life LL-4 compliant. Brand doesn’t matter.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-30-2018, 08:55 AM
shikbas shikbas is offline
LOVE MY BMW
Location: Pa
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 348
Mein Auto: 14 535d
Thanks
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:22 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,402
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
BMW has a specific oil that replaced LL04 in the diesel engines (LL12): https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...30-diesel-oil/ but most ignore this and still use 5W30 LL04 out of habit.

Correction: the LL12 is only for the 4-cylinder diesel single turbo cars: http://bmwwidget.ca/pdf/2015_BMWOil_Brochure_EN.pdf

5W30 LL04 is your safest bet for the 2014 535d.

PL

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 07-30-2018 at 05:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-30-2018, 05:59 PM
TheBusDriver TheBusDriver is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto/GeorgianBay/MarcoIsland
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: A Big Bus
BMW Twin Power Turbo, BMW Longlife-12 FE, SAE 0W-30, 1000 ml
The low ash, fuel-saving oil for modern BMW engines. BMW TwinPower Turbo Longlife 12 FE SAE 0W-30 is proven to offer diesel engine fuel savings of up to 1.5% in the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) compared with BMW Longlife-01 products. CO2 emissions are also, therefore, reduced. Innovative additive technology, which significantly reduces levels of ash-forming substances, also protects the diesel particulate filter from impurities (low-SAPS formula). Additionally, this synthetic technology-based oil improves starting in cold temperatures and protects from corrosion and deposits to keep the engine in a cleaner condition.
Suitable only for authorised BMW diesel engines from 2014 model year (all B37 three-cylinder engines, four-cylinder engines from 2014 model year and six-cylinder engines from 2013 model year) with max one turbocharger. More information available on request.

Here's the link: https://www.bmw.ca/en/topics/offers-...0-1000-ml.html
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-31-2018, 02:31 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
BMW Twin Power Turbo, BMW Longlife-12 FE, SAE 0W-30, 1000 ml

The low ash, fuel-saving oil for modern BMW engines. BMW TwinPower Turbo Longlife 12 FE SAE 0W-30 is proven to offer diesel engine fuel savings of up to 1.5% in the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) compared with BMW Longlife-01 products. CO2 emissions are also, therefore, reduced. Innovative additive technology, which significantly reduces levels of ash-forming substances, also protects the diesel particulate filter from impurities (low-SAPS formula). Additionally, this synthetic technology-based oil improves starting in cold temperatures and protects from corrosion and deposits to keep the engine in a cleaner condition.

Suitable only for authorised BMW diesel engines from 2014 model year (all B37 three-cylinder engines, four-cylinder engines from 2014 model year and six-cylinder engines from 2013 model year) with max one turbocharger. More information available on request.



Here's the link: https://www.bmw.ca/en/topics/offers-...0-1000-ml.html


I would not put LL12 FE in my engine even if someone paid me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:16 PM
n00bkiller944 n00bkiller944 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 44
Mein Auto:
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
I would not put LL12 FE in my engine even if someone paid me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why is that?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-01-2018, 06:34 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 12,888
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
Why is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
Suitable only for authorised BMW diesel engines from 2014 model year (all B37 three-cylinder engines, four-cylinder engines from 2014 model year and six-cylinder engines from 2013 model year) with max one turbocharger.
Because his engine has two turbochargers, more than “with max one turbocharger”?
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:35 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
Why is that?


Because LL12FE is fuel efficient oil in attempt to address issues around excessive city driving patterns among owners in the US. Oil has low HTHS of 3.1cp. In Europe those engines are still using LL04 due to higher HTHS of minimum 3.5cp. By the way HTHS is most important number when it comes to protecting turbo.
LL12 will warm up faster and in city driving patterns provide lower consumption.
But it will not provide same protection as LL04 when pushing car or especially when towing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:36 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
Because his engine has two turbochargers, more than “with max one turbocharger”?


I would not put anything FE in my cars period. BMW is trying to circumvent city driving issues with lighter oils. LL04 is still used in Europe in new engines too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-01-2018, 03:19 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 12,888
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
I would not put anything FE in my cars period. BMW is trying to circumvent city driving issues with lighter oils. LL04 is still used in Europe in new engines too.
I appreciate your apparent expertise. You must never use jargon abbreviations when addressing non-peers. Just as I can not expect to be understood were I to use jargon.

I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-01-2018, 06:31 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
I appreciate your apparent expertise. You must never use jargon abbreviations when addressing non-peers. Just as I can not expect to be understood were I to use jargon.

I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.


What are jargon abbreviations? FE?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:50 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,402
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Because LL12FE is fuel efficient oil in attempt to address issues around excessive city driving patterns among owners in the US. Oil has low HTHS of 3.1cp. In Europe those engines are still using LL04 due to higher HTHS of minimum 3.5cp. By the way HTHS is most important number when it comes to protecting turbo.
LL12 will warm up faster and in city driving patterns provide lower consumption.
But it will not provide same protection as LL04 when pushing car or especially when towing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Meaningless due to abbreviations/acronyms and lack of data/scientific information/explanation.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-05-2018, 09:29 AM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Meaningless due to abbreviations/acronyms and lack of data/scientific information/explanation.


There are a lot of explanations, on all forums about oils, HTHS, SAPS etc. including data. There is thing called Google, it might help you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-05-2018, 10:00 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,402
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
There are a lot of explanations, on all forums about oils, HTHS, SAPS etc. including data. There is thing called Google, it might help you.

Sorry, I think you could do better than that

PL

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 08-05-2018 at 11:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-05-2018, 06:10 PM
TheBusDriver TheBusDriver is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto/GeorgianBay/MarcoIsland
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Mein Auto: A Big Bus
I always get a kick out of "forum geniuses" who somehow know far more than the BMW engineers who design/test/build our cars.

My 2018 540d calls for LLFE12. Its right there in the manual. That's the oil I'll use. It's also the oil BMW recommends for all 6 cylinder single turbo diesel cars in North America since 2013.


(And no, my car won't be used for pushing(?) or towing)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-05-2018, 06:19 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,402
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
I always get a kick out of "forum geniuses" who somehow know far more than the BMW engineers who design/test/build our cars.

My 2018 540d calls for LLFE12. Its right there in the manual. That's the oil I'll use. It's also the oil BMW recommends for all 6 cylinder single turbo diesel cars in North America since 2013.


(And no, my car won't be used for pushing(?) or towing)
Yes.

Interestingly, I've had service at two dealers now, both used LL04 even after I told them about what BMW recommends. I live in a hotter climate so maybe that is in their logic, but a BMW rep came for a BMW CCA meeting and told us about LLFE12 etc. and of course was confused that the dealer wasn't following recommendations. She was clear about how specific oil recommendations are thoroughly engineered but didn't provide any data.

This is not the first time BMW has given odd recommendations- 51 cetane number is recommended but doesn't really exist in North America for example.

PL
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-05-2018, 06:56 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Diesel engine oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
I always get a kick out of "forum geniuses" who somehow know far more than the BMW engineers who design/test/build our cars.



My 2018 540d calls for LLFE12. Its right there in the manual. That's the oil I'll use. It's also the oil BMW recommends for all 6 cylinder single turbo diesel cars in North America since 2013.





(And no, my car won't be used for pushing(?) or towing)


BMW also says that you have lifetime fluid in transmission. Also, for European drivers BMW recommends LL-04 in G30 530d (your engine). You draw conclusion why.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by edycol; 08-05-2018 at 07:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-05-2018, 07:07 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
Yes.



Interestingly, I've had service at two dealers now, both used LL04 even after I told them about what BMW recommends. I live in a hotter climate so maybe that is in their logic, but a BMW rep came for a BMW CCA meeting and told us about LLFE12 etc. and of course was confused that the dealer wasn't following recommendations. She was clear about how specific oil recommendations are thoroughly engineered but didn't provide any data.



This is not the first time BMW has given odd recommendations- 51 cetane number is recommended but doesn't really exist in North America for example.



PL


G30 530d in Europe comes strictly recommended for LL04.
LL12FE is used to achieve CAFE standards in the US under assumption that engines will not see driving conditions like in Europe (speed, acceleration etc.). That is based on data collected from previous owners. Those who buy BMW’s for what they are made are large minority, so apparently not concern for BMW.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-05-2018, 08:25 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: US
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,402
Mein Auto: 2016 535d
BMW calls LL12FE "gold" with "high" protection AND fuel economy, while LL04 is "silver" with "optimal" protection:

ORIGINAL BMW ENGINE OIL
Developed by BMW, for your BMW.
FEATURES
BMW TwinPower Turbo Silver (LL01 / LL04 5W-30): BMW TwinPower Turbo Silver engine oils provide excellent engine performance, while keeping critical engine parts clean and providing optimal engine protection.
BMW TwinPower Turbo Gold (LL01 / LL12 FE 0W-30): BMW TwinPower Turbo Gold engine oils set new standards providing outstanding engine performance and high engine protection. Oils with the "FE-fuel economy" label also provide fuel savings when used in BMW vehicles.
BMW M TwinPower Turbo (10W-60 / LL01 0W-40): BMW M TwinPower Turbo engine oils are tailored perfectly to BMW M high-performance engines and better protect M engines under extreme performance and racing conditions.
BENEFITS
Premium engine oil that is specific to your vehicle and driving dynamics.
Original BMW Engine Oil is used exclusively during your BMW's oil service to ensure the optimal performance of your vehicle.
100% Fully Synthetic.
ENGINE OIL BROCHURE

They say in the brochure that LL04 applies to ALL diesel engines (probably for their twin turbo units unlike LL12FE which is only for "single" turbo engines)

I think reading into this that the "optimal" protection is better than "high" protection - LL04 works for both single and double turbo'd engines. Yes, the FE is probably for CAFE.

PL

Last edited by Pierre Louis; 08-05-2018 at 08:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-05-2018, 08:56 PM
Master_Chase Master_Chase is offline
Registered User
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 51
Mein Auto: 335D&Excursion
I ran LL04 in my 335D before I got tired of ordering since I couldn't find it locally and switched to 5w40 figured if it's good enough for Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax, etc it's good enough for a BMW diesel. It's been probably close to 30K miles since I switched and the last few Blackstone reports look good.

IMHO the factory oil change interval is too long I change mine about every 5K miles.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-05-2018, 09:17 PM
edycol edycol is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Colorado Springs
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,458
Mein Auto: X5 35d (traded in)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Louis View Post
BMW calls LL12FE "gold" with "high" protection AND fuel economy, while LL04 is "silver" with "optimal" protection:

ORIGINAL BMW ENGINE OIL
Developed by BMW, for your BMW.
FEATURES
BMW TwinPower Turbo Silver (LL01 / LL04 5W-30): BMW TwinPower Turbo Silver engine oils provide excellent engine performance, while keeping critical engine parts clean and providing optimal engine protection.
BMW TwinPower Turbo Gold (LL01 / LL12 FE 0W-30): BMW TwinPower Turbo Gold engine oils set new standards providing outstanding engine performance and high engine protection. Oils with the "FE-fuel economy" label also provide fuel savings when used in BMW vehicles.
BMW M TwinPower Turbo (10W-60 / LL01 0W-40): BMW M TwinPower Turbo engine oils are tailored perfectly to BMW M high-performance engines and better protect M engines under extreme performance and racing conditions.
BENEFITS
Premium engine oil that is specific to your vehicle and driving dynamics.
Original BMW Engine Oil is used exclusively during your BMW's oil service to ensure the optimal performance of your vehicle.
100% Fully Synthetic.
ENGINE OIL BROCHURE

They say in the brochure that LL04 applies to ALL diesel engines (probably for their twin turbo units unlike LL12FE which is only for "single" turbo engines)

I think reading into this that the "optimal" protection is better than "high" protection - LL04 works for both single and double turbo'd engines. Yes, the FE is probably for CAFE.

PL


Gold, silver, it is marketing trick.
LL12Fe has High Temperature-High Shear (HTHS) below 3.5. HTHSis single most important number to protect turbo. LL04 has it above 3.5 and LL04 5W30 oils are so called “heavy” 5W30 oils, almost 5W40 (BMW TPT LL04 kinematic viscosity is 12.2, while W40 oils start at 12.5cst). Only way to achieve HTHS of 3.5cst and higher is to have kinematic viscosity high, mostly above 11.5cst but mostly oils are around 12 for 0W30 and 5W30 LL04 and for 5W40 they are around 13 to 14cst (HTHS in LL04 5W40 is usually 3.7cst).
LL12fe has lower HTHS and with that turbo will spool faster and have less resistance. That is good for city driving and due to less resistance, fuel economy. Not good if you using full potential of an engine.
However, BMW could raise warranty issue here is manual strictly says LL12FE and no mention of LL04. In that case if I had 540d I would cut OCI to below 5k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-06-2018, 12:23 AM
Hpi Hpi is offline
Registered User
Location: Norway
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: F01 750Ixdrive 2013
Here in Norway Twinpower turbo gold 0w30 comes in two versions, one with LL04 and one with LL12FE.

LL04: https://www.billigbilpleie.no/pi/Mot...88_146290.aspx
LL12FE: https://www.billigbilpleie.no/pi/BMW...13_146290.aspx

5w30 is LL04 Twinpower turbo silver: https://www.billigbilpleie.no/pi/BMW...87_146290.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-07-2018, 03:55 PM
NoCreativity NoCreativity is offline
Registered User
Location: St. Louis, MO
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 27
Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
What year is your 535d?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikbas View Post
Hello
Trying to buy oil for 535d,I see different brands around,what are your recommendations please?
thanks
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-08-2018, 01:19 AM
shikbas shikbas is offline
LOVE MY BMW
Location: Pa
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 348
Mein Auto: 14 535d
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCreativity View Post
What year is your 535d?
It is 2014
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > BMW Diesel Owners & Enthusiasts
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.