Couple of issues after a valve & timing cover job... - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series > E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)

E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:31 AM
Dover Dover is offline
Registered User
Location: Surrey, England
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 23
Mein Auto: 645 vert
Couple of issues after a valve & timing cover job...

Evenin' all.

Hoping to pick your collective brains again about a couple of issues occuring since I replaced the valve and timing cover gaskets.

Firstly, car seems to be running fine - no SES light - but...

1. I have two faults logged for both cam sensors (inlet and exhaust). Unfortunately I have no idea whether these faults were pre-existing as I cleared all errors before starting the car after I'd done the gasket work. Is it possible that I've simply got them on the wrong way round or is it possible that they've both failed? Yes - I can swap them round to see if it makes a difference - but being the mechanical f*ckwit that I am that's not a quick process for me

2. The second point is me probably being paranoid. I noticed that, when stationary & in park/neutral, if I blip the throttle quite hard I hear a sound that's like a sharp intake of breath. Is this likely to be air being sucked in from somewhere (have I not got the intake boot on correctly etc??) or is that a standard sound of the intake opening up? Sorry for the dumb-ass description but I don't know how else to describe it.

3. Again - possibly me imagining things: I seem to remember that when I started the car the revs would immediately surge up to ~1.5k and then (over the course of the next few seconds) settle down. Now when I start the car it still seems to surge to ~1.5k but then immediately drops right down to around 0.35 before recovering and stabilising. Is it possible that this is to do with the second question I asked that air is getting in somewhere?

So sorry to ask these questions folks. I'm not particularly car-savvy but am desperately trying to learn.

Many thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:49 AM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Charleston, SC
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,924
Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dover View Post
Evenin' all.

Hoping to pick your collective brains again about a couple of issues occuring since I replaced the valve and timing cover gaskets.

Firstly, car seems to be running fine - no SES light - but...

1. I have two faults logged for both cam sensors (inlet and exhaust). Unfortunately I have no idea whether these faults were pre-existing as I cleared all errors before starting the car after I'd done the gasket work. Is it possible that I've simply got them on the wrong way round or is it possible that they've both failed? Yes - I can swap them round to see if it makes a difference - but being the mechanical f*ckwit that I am that's not a quick process for me

2. The second point is me probably being paranoid. I noticed that, when stationary & in park/neutral, if I blip the throttle quite hard I hear a sound that's like a sharp intake of breath. Is this likely to be air being sucked in from somewhere (have I not got the intake boot on correctly etc??) or is that a standard sound of the intake opening up? Sorry for the dumb-ass description but I don't know how else to describe it.

3. Again - possibly me imagining things: I seem to remember that when I started the car the revs would immediately surge up to ~1.5k and then (over the course of the next few seconds) settle down. Now when I start the car it still seems to surge to ~1.5k but then immediately drops right down to around 0.35 before recovering and stabilising. Is it possible that this is to do with the second question I asked that air is getting in somewhere?

So sorry to ask these questions folks. I'm not particularly car-savvy but am desperately trying to learn.

Many thanks in advance.
I had a similar experience after I did a bunch of work including valve covers and timing covers on my N62. The first start after the work was better than the next 3. Surge at startup and then a big drop in rpms that became an unsteady idle at the appropriate rpms. It turned out to be a vacuum leak. The vent valve hose was not fully seated at the intake. It was on but not fully clipped. Fully seating this solved my issue. Go over your work and see if you can find a source for a vacuum leak and make sure your valve covers are seated correctly without being rolled over. I also had a bit of a sucking sound on startup for obvious reasons.

Make sure your VANOS solenoids are fully seated as well. They can be difficult to push all the way in.
__________________
2008 X5 E70 4.8i M-Sport
2008 550i RPI Exhaust, RPI Ram Air

Last edited by BabyUnicornTaco; 05-15-2019 at 11:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:05 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
Super Moderator
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,898
Mein Auto: 05 645Ci, 14 750 M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dover View Post
Evenin' all.

Hoping to pick your collective brains again about a couple of issues occuring since I replaced the valve and timing cover gaskets.

Firstly, car seems to be running fine - no SES light - but...

1. I have two faults logged for both cam sensors (inlet and exhaust). Unfortunately I have no idea whether these faults were pre-existing as I cleared all errors before starting the car after I'd done the gasket work. Is it possible that I've simply got them on the wrong way round or is it possible that they've both failed? Yes - I can swap them round to see if it makes a difference - but being the mechanical f*ckwit that I am that's not a quick process for me

2. The second point is me probably being paranoid. I noticed that, when stationary & in park/neutral, if I blip the throttle quite hard I hear a sound that's like a sharp intake of breath. Is this likely to be air being sucked in from somewhere (have I not got the intake boot on correctly etc??) or is that a standard sound of the intake opening up? Sorry for the dumb-ass description but I don't know how else to describe it.

3. Again - possibly me imagining things: I seem to remember that when I started the car the revs would immediately surge up to ~1.5k and then (over the course of the next few seconds) settle down. Now when I start the car it still seems to surge to ~1.5k but then immediately drops right down to around 0.35 before recovering and stabilising. Is it possible that this is to do with the second question I asked that air is getting in somewhere?

So sorry to ask these questions folks. I'm not particularly car-savvy but am desperately trying to learn.

Many thanks in advance.
Since you have inlet & exhaust faults, if they are on the same bank, switch the wiring on the sensors. If you are seeing timing faults, start looking at the Vanos solenoids. The engine is running in the default MAP mode, which will allow the engine to run at a reduced power, but run. If there was a problem with the Vanos solenoids, the engine would bog down when you apply the gas pedal. If you have some starting fluid, spray it around the intake area, to see if the idle will pick up. A smoke test is the preferred way to find the problem, but most people might not have a smoke test machine. It is always something with our engines after work, just part of the experience!

Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:36 AM
Dover Dover is offline
Registered User
Location: Surrey, England
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 23
Mein Auto: 645 vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
Since you have inlet & exhaust faults, if they are on the same bank, switch the wiring on the sensors.
The codes I'm getting are 2781 (Camshaft sensor, inlet, bank 1), and 27C0 (Camshaft sensor, exhaust, bank 2). The bank 1 fault occurs as soon as I start the car and returns immediately if I clear the memory whilst the car is running. The bank 2 fault is not so immediate.

I don't think it's possible for me to swap the inlet & exhaust cables as the upper of the two sensors (on both banks) has a moulded on cable. I pulled the plug out of the lower of the two cables on bank 1 and there was a decent amount of oil in it - there was also oil creeping up the wires. So I think that sensor is a definite goner. I couldn't see any evidence of oil on any of the others.

Incidentaly, which of the sensors is the exhaust and which is the inlet?

WRT to the other issue: I'll get some starting fluid and spray that around the inlet to see if there is an discernable change in idle speed. Incidentaly, Herb, how can I tell if the car is running in default MAP mode? There doesn't seem to be any drop in performance as far as I can tell.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-16-2019, 12:29 PM
Rick D Rick D is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: lakeland, FL
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 467
Mein Auto: 08 650I Convertible
Starting fluid can be kinda dangerous.... I prefer using an unlit propane torch or even a wd40 type of product to look for vacuum leaks....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:11 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
Super Moderator
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,898
Mein Auto: 05 645Ci, 14 750 M-Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dover View Post
The codes I'm getting are 2781 (Camshaft sensor, inlet, bank 1), and 27C0 (Camshaft sensor, exhaust, bank 2). The bank 1 fault occurs as soon as I start the car and returns immediately if I clear the memory whilst the car is running. The bank 2 fault is not so immediate.

I don't think it's possible for me to swap the inlet & exhaust cables as the upper of the two sensors (on both banks) has a moulded on cable. I pulled the plug out of the lower of the two cables on bank 1 and there was a decent amount of oil in it - there was also oil creeping up the wires. So I think that sensor is a definite goner. I couldn't see any evidence of oil on any of the others.

Incidentaly, which of the sensors is the exhaust and which is the inlet?

WRT to the other issue: I'll get some starting fluid and spray that around the inlet to see if there is an discernable change in idle speed. Incidentaly, Herb, how can I tell if the car is running in default MAP mode? There doesn't seem to be any drop in performance as far as I can tell.
If you have ISTA or possibly INPA, you will see the Vanos system running in emergency mode. The sensors or the MAF could be a problem. Unplug the MAF, to see if it makes a difference? The engine will run in a reduced mode, in the emergency mode. You will notice the reduced performance. I am not home to verify the sensor placement, but I think that the molded cable go to the top sensor. Oil on the sensors could be from an o-ring that will come out when the sensor is removed. It does not not take much a of a damaged o-ring to blow oil out of the engine.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:24 PM
Hsurf's Avatar
Hsurf Hsurf is offline
Super Moderator
Location: East Sussex
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,591
Mein Auto: E63 645ci
The upper of the two sensors is the intake (with attached cable).
__________________

Neal.
_________________
E63 645Ci
Toyota Hilux Surf 3.0
Honda CBR1100XX
_________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-24-2019, 01:26 AM
Dover Dover is offline
Registered User
Location: Surrey, England
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 23
Mein Auto: 645 vert
Sorted!

Many thanks for your input folks. The issues are now sorted.

I checked everything that was suggested (VANOS solonoid seating etc) and any areas where there could possibly have been unmetered air ingress - I couldn't find anything wrong. So I went ahead and replaced the sensors.

I replaced all four of the Cam sensors. I know Herb will probably be shaking his head and tutting, but I used aftermarket parts. 100 for all four sensors. The main reason being that I wasn't convinced that they would rectify the issue - and sensors from BMW are an expensive proposition - especially if they don't fix the issue.

All errors have now disappeared. I have a suspicion that one or both of the faulty sensors have been faulty since I bought the car as it now seems to have a new lease of life! Herb had said that the car was probably boggy under acceleration - I hadn't really noticed that as I had nothing to compare it to. Now the car is far more spritely and responsive. Also, it may be just in my mind, but I think the car also idles better and is slightly quieter. The rapid drop in revs after I start the car has also gone. I'll keep an eye to see if fuel economy also improves (not that anyone really buys a 645 if they care that much about their mpg )

Either way, I'm a happy punter. Many thanks for your help as always.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-24-2019, 02:32 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Reno NV & Healdsburg CA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,648
Mein Auto: 4 BMWs, 1 Mini, 1 Vespa
Thanks for coming back and closing the loop with resolution. This is how knowledge gets passed along.

Congrats on getting your car fixed as well.
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-24-2019, 05:34 PM
zod zod is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 184
Mein Auto: 1987 BMW 535is 2008 E64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dover View Post
Herb had said that the car was probably boggy under acceleration - I hadn't really noticed that as I had nothing to compare it to. Now the car is far more spritely and responsive.
I've had boggy with no noticeable engine problems. Sport mode makes it better, but it doesn't completely go away. I've been racking it up to drive by wire and have been looking at sprint booster just for better throttle blipping on downshifts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-24-2019, 06:57 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
Super Moderator
Location: Georgia
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,898
Mein Auto: 05 645Ci, 14 750 M-Sport
Glad you found your problem, & didn't have to remove the VC's again!
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 6 Series > E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How To: E85 / Z4 M: Valve Adjustment & Spark Plug Replacement Swanicyouth E85 / E86 Z4 (2003-2008) 15 01-07-2019 11:35 AM
BMW OBD II Codes (Complete) doru E39 (1997 - 2003) 2 03-26-2014 01:26 PM
BMW Service Codes 00000000 through 09999999 mksu19 General BMW Questions 7 02-22-2013 06:07 PM
Will a car cover help me? edsmax The Detail Department 1 10-25-2004 08:46 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.