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  #126  
Old 07-12-2019, 02:23 AM
Carmis Carmis is offline
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I agree with you on that one! When you think about it,we're really at the mercy of some 15 year and hacker with a good broadband connection! Scary!!!
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  #127  
Old 07-12-2019, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post
To answer the OP question: NO.

You'll have to pull the gear knob outa my cold dead hand. I'm just back from a rare nighttime drive, not in any of my manual bimmers but in my garage queen, a gas guzzling, anti eco-friendly 8 cylinder naturally aspirated, heavy clutch Aston Martin 6 speed manual. I don't speed often, but when I do.....well....it's why I love cars......manual cars....what a rush. Yes I'm a dinosaur.....but tonite a happy Raptor
The local Lotus dealer, here in Indianapolis, has a 2010 Aston Martin V12 Vantage, with a 6 speed manual. God that thing is sexy! I may test drive it just to row through the gears and listen to that V12 sing.


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  #128  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:50 AM
NW-99SS NW-99SS is offline
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Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post
To answer the OP question: NO.

You'll have to pull the gear knob outa my cold dead hand. I'm just back from a rare nighttime drive, not in any of my manual bimmers but in my garage queen, a gas guzzling, anti eco-friendly 8 cylinder naturally aspirated, heavy clutch Aston Martin 6 speed manual. I don't speed often, but when I do.....well....it's why I love cars......manual cars....what a rush. Yes I'm a dinosaur.....but tonite a happy Raptor
I'm a dino as well. Tomorrow the ZZ502 powered 1963 GrandSport comes out of the garage for some fun.

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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
The local Lotus dealer, here in Indianapolis, has a 2010 Aston Martin V12 Vantage, with a 6 speed manual. God that thing is sexy! I may test drive it just to row through the gears and listen to that V12 sing.

Absolutely love those AM V12s!
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  #129  
Old 07-12-2019, 06:52 AM
hogwldfltr hogwldfltr is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
what magical unicorn fart generates the electricity to charge these vehicles?

$0.60 per mile
Based on electric rates at my house ($0.11 per kilowatthour), that $6 is 54.5 kilowatthours. Let's assume the full charge happens in 8 hours; that means the charger is delivering 6.8 KILOWATTS per hour. Six Thousand Eight Hundred watts. Those are some heavy gauge conductors. Some additional infrastructure spending may be required.

semi-trucks are generally diesel, not gas
Why "pre-vetted"? Are the routes pre-vetted, or is it ACTUALLY autnomous?
excluding mining and transportation of raw materials, I assume
Ever talk to anyone in the cellular industry about what they think of 5G? It's enlightening.
I'm in manufacturing in the cellular industry. We are the largest supplier of semiconductors for the industry. I'm curious as to what you are saying and implying (since you said little). Please do tell.
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  #130  
Old 07-12-2019, 07:11 AM
Jim328 Jim328 is offline
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Not cellular manufacturers, cellular providers.
During an industry conference for service & network providers, the "general" consensus was that 5G was...
a solution looking for a problem
very unreliable indoors
not something very many people wanted next to their own heads (jokes about causing sterility)
not thoroughly willing to play nice with 4G

My takeaway was that 5G may not be all the politicians (and others) have made it out to be, at least from the perspective of the people who would actually DELIVER that service.
The sun will not be sunnier, the sky more blue and the grass more green.

Without completely violating the terms of my NDA, I can only be annoyingly vague.

I'll note that this is NOT my area of expertise, and am only repeating (carefully filtered) things I heard at an event I cannot disclose.

Yeah. I know. Irritating as hell.
I sign more NDAs in a year than most people do in a lifetime.
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  #131  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:20 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
what magical unicorn fart generates the electricity to charge these vehicles?

$0.60 per mile
Based on electric rates at my house ($0.11 per kilowatthour), that $6 is 54.5 kilowatthours. Let's assume the full charge happens in 8 hours; that means the charger is delivering 6.8 KILOWATTS per hour. Six Thousand Eight Hundred watts. Those are some heavy gauge conductors. Some additional infrastructure spending may be required.
Over 90% of electricity generated where I live comes from renewables. And even if it came from diesel, the environmental cost to deliver me a full charge is less than me running the equivalent mileage burning gasoline. The whole "well where does the electricity come from, that's not green" argument has been debunked for years. It is, however, a go-to statement used all the time by those who oppose the industry.

This depends on the vehicle of course, but mine gives me a full charge within 12 hours. And I'm pulling down 1,500 watts an hour from a normal 120V house plug. Not sure why I need more, but again, that's my particular EV.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
Not cellular manufacturers, cellular providers.
During an industry conference for service & network providers, the "general" consensus was that 5G was...
a solution looking for a problem
very unreliable indoors
not something very many people wanted next to their own heads (jokes about causing sterility)
not thoroughly willing to play nice with 4G

My takeaway was that 5G may not be all the politicians (and others) have made it out to be, at least from the perspective of the people who would actually DELIVER that service.
The sun will not be sunnier, the sky more blue and the grass more green.
Interesting. I worked in cellular for over a decade. I still have plenty of ties to the industry, personally and professionally. Everyone I've talked to and everything I've seen is that 5G is a game changer.
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  #132  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:37 AM
Jim328 Jim328 is offline
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Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
Over 90% of electricity generated where I live comes from renewables.
I live in Colorado.
Twice a day, every day, a VERY long freight train of coal hoppers runs north to south, taking coal from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming to the Comanche power plant down near Pueblo.
Quote:
And even if it came from diesel, the environmental cost to deliver me a full charge is less than me running the equivalent mileage burning gasoline. The whole "well where does the electricity come from, that's not green" argument has been debunked for years. It is, however, a go-to statement used all the time by those who oppose the industry.
I don't oppose the industry, I just don't think it's quite ready for prime-time.
Quote:
This depends on the vehicle of course, but mine gives me a full charge within 12 hours. And I'm pulling down 1,500 watts an hour from a normal 120V house plug. Not sure why I need more, but again, that's my particular EV.
What's the range after a 12 hour charge?
How likely is it I can find a charging station in West Nowhere, Colorado?
My statement about power needed was based on the article you posted, and doing some simple arithmetic. Perhaps the article wasn't completely accurate?
Quote:
Interesting. I worked in cellular for over a decade. I still have plenty of ties to the industry, personally and professionally. Everyone I've talked to and everything I've seen is that 5G is a game changer.
Only repeating what I heard discussed at an industry event in May.
As I said, not my area of expertise.
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  #133  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:41 AM
hogwldfltr hogwldfltr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
Not cellular manufacturers, cellular providers.
During an industry conference for service & network providers, the "general" consensus was that 5G was...
a solution looking for a problem
very unreliable indoors
not something very many people wanted next to their own heads (jokes about causing sterility)
not thoroughly willing to play nice with 4G

My takeaway was that 5G may not be all the politicians (and others) have made it out to be, at least from the perspective of the people who would actually DELIVER that service.
The sun will not be sunnier, the sky more blue and the grass more green.

Without completely violating the terms of my NDA, I can only be annoyingly vague.

I'll note that this is NOT my area of expertise, and am only repeating (carefully filtered) things I heard at an event I cannot disclose.

Yeah. I know. Irritating as hell.
I sign more NDAs in a year than most people do in a lifetime.
Highly unlikely it will flop. Technologies evolve with time and issues in general can be overcome with experience. Today's flop becomes tomorrow's success story. We'll see.
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  #134  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:16 AM
Jim328 Jim328 is offline
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Originally Posted by hogwldfltr View Post
Highly unlikely it will flop. Technologies evolve with time and issues in general can be overcome with experience. Today's flop becomes tomorrow's success story. We'll see.
I don't think it will flop.
They just didn't seem to have the giant hard-on for it like I had heard on the interwebs.
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  #135  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:39 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
I live in Colorado.
Twice a day, every day, a VERY long freight train of coal hoppers runs north to south, taking coal from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming to the Comanche power plant down near Pueblo.

I don't oppose the industry, I just don't think it's quite ready for prime-time.

What's the range after a 12 hour charge?
How likely is it I can find a charging station in West Nowhere, Colorado?
My statement about power needed was based on the article you posted, and doing some simple arithmetic. Perhaps the article wasn't completely accurate?

Only repeating what I heard discussed at an industry event in May.
As I said, not my area of expertise.
Even with coal, it's still more enviro-friendly to charge an EV than burn gasoline. But yeah, coal needs to really be phased out, it's ridiculous that in 2019 we're still using that as an energy generator.

I'll agree that parts aren't ready. Long haul driving isn't. I can't drive from Whitehorse to Anchorage (like I do every single year in my BMWs) in an EV. Even if I was willing to take several days to make journey, there isn't the physical infrastructure to allow it. That being said, the industry won't get there without support and uptake. That's why I'm a big proponent of it. Because of the increasing number of EVs on my local roads, and the uptick in interest from the general public, our government here is subsidizing 3 "fast charge" stations to be built. Two in my city and one in a town called Carcross. By strategically placing these, you are now able to drive an EV from Whitehorse to Skagway, Alaska (Google Maps it if you want), and you're able to charge along the way if need be.

My EV's got ~100 mile range on a full charge. I opted for the smaller batteries vs the longer range ones (both are available in my model) simply because, where I live, 100 miles, 150 miles, 200 miles, it's all the same. Range really changes the game of where I can drive when we get to 500+ miles and distances like that, but an additional 50 or 100 miles makes no difference to me locally. I've charged from 10% battery life left to 100% full in 12 hours (or less, because I don't actually know when it finished as I was sleeping), on 120V regular house plug power.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
I don't think it will flop.
They just didn't seem to have the giant hard-on for it like I had heard on the interwebs.
I think the cellular providers don't really care right now because there are so few handsets that are 5G compatible yet. Also, what's the point, LTE speeds are perfectly fast for smartphone use and there are hardly any mainstream apps that are widely used that even need LTE vs 3G, let alone 5G.

Where 5G changes the game is in the Internet of Things. Connected cars, for example. Being able to feed real-time data like traffic and integrating AI. For example, take an average sized city with normal rush hour traffic. Traffic cameras on all the street lights wirelessly feed live data (traffic backups, how many light cycles people are waiting, etc) that's accessible to all the GPS navigation providers (the in-car ones, Waze, Google Maps, whoever wants access), who in turn use AI to adjust navigation in moving vehicles to optimize travel routes due to traffic. When you start talking about autonomous vehicles that drive themselves, now the AI can be predictive and proactive, meaning that all these different nav providers will be able to coordinate with each other so that traffic backups don't even happen in the first place (Ford is going to take the I5, Lexus is going to take a neighbourhood route instead, etc etc).

That's just ONE application, but if you look here:
https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech...owns-the-data/

That kind of gives you an idea of the quantity of data we're talking about. THIS is where technologies like 5G come into play. There's no way we have the wireless bandwidth, today, to accommodate something like 25 GB an hour from a single vehicle. Not with the density we're talking about and the amount of macro cell sites out there. Backhaul bandwidth is another story altogether.

You are totally correct though, in the consumer smartphone cellular market, LTE vs 5G is definitely not as a big of a deal.
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  #136  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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BashedBarrique BashedBarrique is offline
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Over 90% of electricity generated where I live comes from renewables. And even if it came from diesel, the environmental cost to deliver me a full charge is less than me running the equivalent mileage burning gasoline.
YEC (Yukon Energy Corporation) generates the great majority of it's electricity from hydro electric turbines. Environmentalists HATE hydro plants. So it depends on what you mean by "environmental cost".

I'm all for hydro electric generation, or any other electrical generating source that makes economic sense. Coal, natural gas, hydro-electric and nuclear make up nearly 90% of US electric generation. Enviro types hate them all.

I'm all for electric vehicles when they make sense. Like I said, I thought about buying one. What I am not for is people that push them for political and pseudo-scientific, quasi-religious reasons via subsidies and regulations to coerce other people into buying them. There is no scientific reason to fear the CO2 generated by "fossil fuels" Some day the reserves of these fuel stocks will be exhausted and we'll have to power our homes and vehicles on something else.

That day is way off in the future. I hope to be driving a manual transmission, ICE equipped vehicle until they take the keys away from me in the home.

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  #137  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:13 AM
Jim328 Jim328 is offline
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until they take the keys away from me in the home.
They're gonna have to FIND them first!
"I hid this uncomfortable piece of metal up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the watch to you. "
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  #138  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:51 AM
Ginobass Ginobass is offline
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So after much tangentitis, back to the original question:

Does anyone driving manual wish they had an automatic sometimes?

In a word, never.
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  #139  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:22 PM
NW-99SS NW-99SS is offline
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Originally Posted by Ginobass View Post
So after much tangentitis, back to the original question:

Does anyone driving manual wish they had an automatic sometimes?

In a word, never.
This exactly
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  #140  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:45 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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YEC (Yukon Energy Corporation) generates the great majority of it's electricity from hydro electric turbines. Environmentalists HATE hydro plants. So it depends on what you mean by "environmental cost".

I'm all for hydro electric generation, or any other electrical generating source that makes economic sense. Coal, natural gas, hydro-electric and nuclear make up nearly 90% of US electric generation. Enviro types hate them all.

I'm all for electric vehicles when they make sense. Like I said, I thought about buying one. What I am not for is people that push them for political and pseudo-scientific, quasi-religious reasons via subsidies and regulations to coerce other people into buying them. There is no scientific reason to fear the CO2 generated by "fossil fuels" Some day the reserves of these fuel stocks will be exhausted and we'll have to power our homes and vehicles on something else.

That day is way off in the future. I hope to be driving a manual transmission, ICE equipped vehicle until they take the keys away from me in the home.
I don't know why enviros would hate hydro. It's an excellent way to produce energy

Subsidies exist to give the EV industry a leg up. Again, after the amount of subsidies the ICE industry has gotten over the last 60, 70 years, I would say that's only fair to treat the EV industry the same way
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  #141  
Old 07-12-2019, 01:51 PM
wilt wilt is online now
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Originally Posted by BashedBarrique View Post
I live in suburban Indianapolis (Carmel) and commute from downtown, so I spend a fair amount of time in traffic. Except for our Mazda CX-5 our other three vehicles are manuals. I never even notice shifting gears in traffic, even in my manual transmission F-150. It's just automatic (no pun intended) to me. And, at least, it gives me something to do during the slog.

I did have a 1973 F-100 with a "three on the tree" manual and Good God that clutch was like using a leg press Nautilus machine. I once got stuck in traffic in that old truck and my left leg was trembling so bad by the time I got home I could hardly walk. But modern hydraulic clutches are so light and easy that it takes little effort to work them.
Let's divorce the action of gear selection from the action of engaging/releasing the clutch.

Gear selection is indeed a mindless activity in stop-and-stop-then-go traffic. Releasing and disengaging the clutch repeated to move forward (or not) in a very unpredictable manner in stop-and-stop-then-go-then-stop traffic is a pain in the left leg!!! Just try it when it takes 20 minutes to move only 1 mile unpredictably...walking speed.

Last edited by wilt; 07-12-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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  #142  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:31 PM
The Father The Father is offline
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Originally Posted by JingChai View Post
I been driving manual almost all my life and sometimes wish I had an automatic, especially during bumper to bumper traffic. Not having to constantly step on the clutch and shift gears after a long day at work would be really nice.

Has anyone else ever felt the same way before for all the manual owners out there?
Sometimes I wish I had an automatic. Only when I have a drink or food. (No cup holders or armrests in my car, no place to put anything really) but never otherwise. Hard to drive with one hand only.
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  #143  
Old 07-13-2019, 07:40 AM
jiveturky1 jiveturky1 is offline
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I can unwrap a taco, put fire sauce on it, and consume it all while driving a stick. At least I could when I was a younger guy road tripping. The knees!
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  #144  
Old 07-14-2019, 09:07 AM
hogwldfltr hogwldfltr is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim328 View Post
I don't think it will flop.
They just didn't seem to have the giant hard-on for it like I had heard on the interwebs.
Retooling is expensive as opposed to milking a cash cow.
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  #145  
Old 07-15-2019, 06:52 AM
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I don't know why enviros would hate hydro. It's an excellent way to produce energy
Flooded lands, methane release...
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  #146  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:16 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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A student at Advance M School asked an instructor which gear he used in turn number-whatever. The instructor said he used "S" (Sport Automatic), because when he's tear-assing around at 160 MPH he's holding two walkie-talkies (one on the student frequency, one on the instructor frequency).

I've come to terms with the automatic in Frau Putzer's X3 30i. I'm usually hyper-mile-ing when I drive the X3. I generally keep it on EcoPro mode, which causes the car to coast in neutral when I let of the gas. If I need to slow down faster, I shift over to M/S (Manual/Sport). That engages the transmission in Sport Mode, and I get engine compression braking. If I need to slow down even faster, I hit the "-" trigger on the steering wheel and that switches it to Manual Mode. But, there's no tachometer in EcoPro mode if you get the fancy gauge cluster.
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  #147  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:13 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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I've come to terms with the automatic in Frau Putzer's X3 30i. I'm usually hyper-mile-ing when I drive the X3. I generally keep it on EcoPro mode, which causes the car to coast in neutral when I let of the gas.
My Mrs. does the same thing in the X1. First thing when she gets in, EcoPro mode on (you have to turn it on manually every single time).
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  #148  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:46 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I customized EcoPro to not fiddle with the air conditioner performance, and I have to manually turn off the Auto Stop/Start. Starters, turbocharges, and engines are more expensive than gasoline.

Last week, we took the X3 into town, making five stops. At the fist stop, we'd got 29.2 MPG. By the time we got to the fifth stop it was down to 24.3 MPG. It was getting into rush hour, so we took the 25 mile, rural route home. On that final leg, we got 31.2 MPG while carrying two fat people and about 300 pounds of cargo. That's amazing for a 4100 pound, AWD SUV.
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  #149  
Old 07-15-2019, 09:24 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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I customized EcoPro to not fiddle with the air conditioner performance, and I have to manually turn off the Auto Stop/Start. Starters, turbocharges, and engines are more expensive than gasoline.
She uses the auto start/stop all the time. Interestingly, if the outside temperature is below a certain value, then the auto start/stop doesn't function. I don't know what the cut-off is, but I know it doesn't operate for about 6 months out of the year

Do you have any evidence that the auto start/stop causes increased wear on anything ? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just wondering. I've asked a few BMW dealers (and my indy) about this and the only thing I've been told is that there is marginal increased wear on the starter. Everything else is a negligible difference. Even on the starter, apparently the biggest wear item is when the starter spins down after engine ignition has been achieved. When using the auto start/stop, the spin down cycle is drastically shortened, thereby avoiding most of the wear and tear. So I've been told anyways
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  #150  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:53 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
She uses the auto start/stop all the time. Interestingly, if the outside temperature is below a certain value, then the auto start/stop doesn't function. I don't know what the cut-off is, but I know it doesn't operate for about 6 months out of the year

Do you have any evidence that the auto start/stop causes increased wear on anything ? Not that I don't believe you, I'm just wondering. I've asked a few BMW dealers (and my indy) about this and the only thing I've been told is that there is marginal increased wear on the starter. Everything else is a negligible difference. Even on the starter, apparently the biggest wear item is when the starter spins down after engine ignition has been achieved. When using the auto start/stop, the spin down cycle is drastically shortened, thereby avoiding most of the wear and tear. So I've been told anyways
There's a blurb in my F10 manual saying that ASS can accelerate wear on components, but doesn't list any specific ones. The main and connecting rod bearings need oil pressure to keep metal away from metal. As start-up and shut-down, there's no pressure.

You can calculate how much fuel a car burns at idle, using the OBC and a stopwatch. Mine burns between 0.25 and 0.4 gallons/hour.
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