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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 07-05-2019, 08:40 AM
The Father The Father is offline
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You didn't even consider 1-series? You would like to upgrade into bit bigger size after S3? E87 has caused much less work than my E46, but then again wife drives less and always slowly and carefully.
I don't trust the N54/55. Plus I personally prefer E46 design. Size and practicality isn't much of an issue for me right now.
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2019, 09:03 AM
meinbills meinbills is offline
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A bought my wife a 325i brand new in '03. It was high maintenance right off the lot; coils, speed sensors, software updates, etc, etc. And it certainly didn't get any better once the warranty ran out; cooling system replacements, CCV replacements, VANOS kit, valve cover gasket, oil filter housing gaskets, window regulators, numerous suspension parts, intake boots, exhaust headers replacement, 02 sensors, and on and on. That's without even mentioning your garden variety maintenance items like numerous brake jobs and etc. The vast majority of that, I did myself, otherwise I would have sent it down road many years ago. It's in the garage right now with the intake off awaiting parts, plus it needs a drive shaft, oil pan gasket, engine mounts, tranny mounts & rear wheel bearings. I replaced it as a daily driver 4 or 5 years ago, but still use it as a backup and errand runner. I probably should have sold it then but there is just something about it that keeps me from selling it.

They are great cars, but if you're going drive one daily, you should be prepared to spend a lot on it. That's just the nature of owning one.
Wow. How many miles did you have on the car when all of these maintenance started to happen? I find that any car the wife drives will generally end up in worse shape faster than if we drive that same car. Reasons? 1) They don't let the car warm up briefly 2) they drive like a bat out of hell right after startup 3) they seem to gravitated to pot holes and rough patches in the road 4) they tend to tailgate and hard on the brakes etc.
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2019, 04:51 PM
Donkeyshins Donkeyshins is offline
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I don't trust the N54/55. Plus I personally prefer E46 design. Size and practicality isn't much of an issue for me right now.
E82 w/ N52N motor (e.g. 128i) is about as bulletproof as you can get in a modern BMW. Feels / drives quite a bit like an E36 M3, and upgrading from a standard intake manifold to a DISA 3-stage manifold (with associated software update) will net you ~ 30HP / 30 ft/lb.

Just my $0.02.

-D
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:05 PM
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Hey, so in a little dilemma with my vehicle situation. Insurance will pay out $10k less than I bought my car for and will instantly write it off because it is an import. And I cannoy simply buy a donor car or buy body parts so if I get into an accident, I'm screwed out of $10k with a car I cannot repair. Even if I get a hit and run my insurance will write it off no matter how minor if I report it.

Therefore I'm looking for a new daily and have seen two very interesting BMWs that are relatively the same price.

The first: A 1987 E30 BMW 325i sedan in the Nerzbraun color. Listed for $12.5k CAD at 178k kms. From the pictures, it looks to be in amazing condition and the original owner owned it for about 30 years. Has a lot of upgrades like coilovers, E46 steering rack and reservoir, a few E36 handling goodies, an exhaust, and a performance chip.

The Second: A 2005 E46 330ci ZHP/ZAM. Coupe, imola red, alcantara steering wheel but leather seats. Cannot tell the dash trim but has the alcantara shift boot and ZHP shift boot. Fully stock as far as the ad says and looks to be immaculate from the pictures. About 140k kms for $12.9k. The current owners have had it for the past 10 years.

Both cars have all service records available, but the E30 had a lot of owner service on it. The E46 owners claim they had anything and everything done ASAP when needed and have the records to prove.

I really like both cars, but am super concerned with safety of the E30. No airbags, very minimal side protection, and the overall construction and size of it does not strike me with confidence in an accident. I live in an area of high collisions and huge trucks/SUVs compared to the car. I know the E46 is not a huge car either, but it has more modern construction and safety items like airbags and not 30+ year old seatbelts and crumple zones.

Power isn't a huge concern, but the E46's extra torque would definitely be nice for a daily around town. And will be moving to a big city soon, so the tiny car vs big truck wouldn't be as big a concern.

Reliability and cost to own is the second highest concern after safety. I've heard plenty of horror stories about both cars' engines. CCV and Vanos for the E46, and just general age and lack of maitenance for the E30. If the E46 truly has all preventative maitenance and things like CCV, Vanos, subframe and struts, etc have been attended to, what else would there be to worry about aside from oil leaks and general maitenance? And is the reliability and simplicity of the E30 worth more than safety?

I really like both cars. Never driven a BMW but have a little experience and knowledge wrenching on my own cars (my dad used to be a mechanic, so he can always help me out). Would only use my local mechanic for big projects if needed.

Any input is appreciated. I do have plenty of experience with questionably reliable cars (two Audi's) and currently have a 2001 Audi S3. I don't want a car that will make me go broke or that I'll be afraid to push hard every now and then but I don't want something that will bore me to death (already been there, had a Honda, sold it very quickly)

Also, can either of these cars be driven safely in rain, or even light snow? The E30 has no assists and slicks on and that also concerns me. The E46 has all seasons and assists at least, so rain wouldn't be torture. If I were to get one of these, it would be my first RWD car, never have driven one before.

TL;DR - 2005 330ci ZHP/ZAM for $12.9k with 140k kms or a 1987 325i sedan for $12.5k with 178k kms. Both have all records, both have hadowners who have kept the car a long time. Biggest concerns are safety, reliability, and cost to own.

Sorry for long post.
You realize that BMW's are an expensive obsession, more so when they're old. Our '88 325is, 59kmi (that's ~ 2kmi/yr, driven frequently) 2-owner has been in the family over 20yrs with regular on-time (not miles) maintenance. We love it, but it's a hobby car and over the last 10yrs it's cost us over $1/mi., no extreme problems. mostly age related, but timing belts every 5 yrs, a bunch of seals, fuel pump, all coolant and fuel rubber, and recent sub-frame and AC compressor and it adds up. No serious electronics problems, yet, but you may have trouble replacing things like the trip computer. It's a blast to drive, handles turns well and has sufficient power. If it doesn't have them, consider mounting 15in. wheels as few tire companies make good 14in. tires these days. Safety is a valid consideration, too.

I prefer older BMWs, wouldn't have a newer one (just not my thing). Mustangs aren't my thing, either, but a son has newer one - it handles like a race car, great suspension and brakes, and after driving it for a week it was hard to return it.
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  #30  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Donkeyshins View Post
E82 w/ N52N motor (e.g. 128i) is about as bulletproof as you can get in a modern BMW. Feels / drives quite a bit like an E36 M3, and upgrading from a standard intake manifold to a DISA 3-stage manifold (with associated software update) will net you ~ 30HP / 30 ft/lb.

Just my $0.02.

-D
I agree with you, but the electric water pump and tstat make me prefer the good old M54. You can refresh the whole m54 cooling system for what just a pump and tstat cost for the n52/54/55
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  #31  
Old 07-09-2019, 06:15 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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I agree with you, but the electric water pump and tstat make me prefer the good old M54. You can refresh the whole m54 cooling system for what just a pump and tstat cost for the n52/54/55


All three different M54s? I don’t know the details.


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  #32  
Old 07-09-2019, 07:06 PM
Pete_NZ Pete_NZ is offline
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So let me get this straight, you're getting out of the S3 because of the potential that if it's written off, you will get $10,000 less than you paid for it? All that tells me is you probably overpaid so if you try and sell, you'll take that hit anyway.
Is that the only reason to sell it? They're great cars, and if it's a good one (Audis A3s of that era seem to be either unbreakable or total crap) why not keep it? Sell it and you take the loss, guaranteed.
Having said that, if you really want to sell it, of the 2 BMWs the E46 is the easy choice. Far better car than the E30 and better than the S3.
Also a far better prospect to daily. They have known failure points, which when fixed are fixed and everything on them is very easy to DIY. Plus, second hand parts are cheap & plentiful. They're a fun car to swap parts & tweak.
$12K+ for an E46 is insanity tho. Find a manual 330 for half that and invest the other $11K of your budget. Or buy a car lift for your dad's garage.
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2019, 07:12 PM
Pete_NZ Pete_NZ is offline
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...

Last edited by Pete_NZ; 07-09-2019 at 07:55 PM.
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2019, 05:37 AM
SPDSKTR SPDSKTR is offline
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Originally Posted by smolck View Post
I think it's an $8000 car. ZHP owners seem to live under an illusion the ZHP is worth M3 money, it isn't, not at that mileage. A very low miles car (under 50k) might command that kind of premium or more. I was a ZHP owner, I know. I sold mine in 2014, with TONS of goodies, maintenance, and power for $6500, granted it had 200k miles, but still, people need to be reasonable.
I know what I got, bro. Don't you low-ball me, bro. Come at me, bro.

On topic, though... I daily drove a 1991 318is for a little over a year (RIP, you rowdy go-cart). It had an S52 swapped in it with other go-fast bits tacked on. However, mine did not have AC, nor did it have airbags. Looking back, it's a wonder how I did it.

If I could have one for a weekend car, sure... I'd do it in a heartbeat. However, with all the safety technologies and amenities that come in modern cars, I'd opt for a newer car as a daily driver.
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2019, 11:10 AM
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Where are you located?
I own a dealership and can hook you up with a car at wholesale if your in the US.
New and Used.
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:39 PM
meinbills meinbills is offline
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Where are you located?
I own a dealership and can hook you up with a car at wholesale if your in the US.
New and Used.
You own a dealership??? Are you serious? I've thought that you were just a regular guy who likes to boost his cars.
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  #37  
Old 07-10-2019, 04:07 PM
The Father The Father is offline
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Where are you located?
I own a dealership and can hook you up with a car at wholesale if your in the US.
New and Used.
Located in Alberta Canada.
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2019, 04:11 PM
The Father The Father is offline
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So let me get this straight, you're getting out of the S3 because of the potential that if it's written off, you will get $10,000 less than you paid for it? All that tells me is you probably overpaid so if you try and sell, you'll take that hit anyway.
Is that the only reason to sell it? They're great cars, and if it's a good one (Audis A3s of that era seem to be either unbreakable or total crap) why not keep it? Sell it and you take the loss, guaranteed.
Having said that, if you really want to sell it, of the 2 BMWs the E46 is the easy choice. Far better car than the E30 and better than the S3.
Also a far better prospect to daily. They have known failure points, which when fixed are fixed and everything on them is very easy to DIY. Plus, second hand parts are cheap & plentiful. They're a fun car to swap parts & tweak.
$12K+ for an E46 is insanity tho. Find a manual 330 for half that and invest the other $11K of your budget. Or buy a car lift for your dad's garage.
I actually got a good deal on it compared to other S3s in Canada. A lot of them sell for $15-17k. Insurance substituted the value of an Audi TT, the closest "comparable" vehicle because the S3 was not sold in Canada.

Another reason I want to sell it is because body panels are a pain to get if I need something IE if I get hit. And insurance will not put an effort to finding or paying for anything.

Its just not a good situation for a daily car where accidents and stuff can happen at any time.
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  #39  
Old 07-10-2019, 06:35 PM
Pete_NZ Pete_NZ is offline
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Ahh I see, Canada didn't get them. I can understand the situation now. Yes, if you can get good money, it makes sense to sell. In pure rational terms, 12K spent on a BMW would be better put into the next gen E9x. Anything with a turbo that is. It's only with the substantial performance increase that they became enough of an improvement over the E46. Did Canada get the 3L turbo diesels? They are phenomenal cars, great for easy performance upgrades & super reliable. Rare but cool as a 2 door; great looking as a wagon.

Last edited by Pete_NZ; 07-10-2019 at 06:37 PM.
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:02 PM
The Father The Father is offline
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Ahh I see, Canada didn't get them. I can understand the situation now. Yes, if you can get good money, it makes sense to sell. In pure rational terms, 12K spent on a BMW would be better put into the next gen E9x. Anything with a turbo that is. It's only with the substantial performance increase that they became enough of an improvement over the E46. Did Canada get the 3L turbo diesels? They are phenomenal cars, great for easy performance upgrades & super reliable. Rare but cool as a 2 door; great looking as a wagon.
Don't believe we got a diesel until F30 gen. Out of my budget anyways.

Performance isn't my main concern. The S3 is good enough and the ZHP has a bit more power than it.

I don't trust the E9x engines, specifically the turbo ones. Yea the 323/328i are nice, but I really dislike the design of the sedan and the coupe, while attractive yet feminine, has a very bulbous front end imo. If something happens, E46 parts cars are much more common and cheaper than E9x, at least in my province.
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  #41  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:07 AM
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Don't believe we got a diesel until F30 gen. Out of my budget anyways.

Performance isn't my main concern. The S3 is good enough and the ZHP has a bit more power than it.

I don't trust the E9x engines, specifically the turbo ones. Yea the 323/328i are nice, but I really dislike the design of the sedan and the coupe, while attractive yet feminine, has a very bulbous front end imo. If something happens, E46 parts cars are much more common and cheaper than E9x, at least in my province.
I agree with you. the N52/54/55 internals are probably stout enough, but all the “extra” crapola they put on them and the turbos and everything make DIY’ing less easy and more costly.

I also lament the e9x front ends and sedans, to me, the e9x sedan looks like a camry. if i was going to go newer, itd be a 128i from 2010-2011 vintage.
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  #42  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:20 AM
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You own a dealership??? Are you serious? I've thought that you were just a regular guy who likes to boost his cars.
I do like to boost my cars haha.

But yes I own a dealership among many other businesses.
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Located in Alberta Canada.
Dang. Can't help you then
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  #43  
Old 07-11-2019, 10:03 AM
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Don't believe we got a diesel until F30 gen. Out of my budget anyways.

Performance isn't my main concern. The S3 is good enough and the ZHP has a bit more power than it.

I don't trust the E9x engines, specifically the turbo ones. Yea the 323/328i are nice, but I really dislike the design of the sedan and the coupe, while attractive yet feminine, has a very bulbous front end imo. If something happens, E46 parts cars are much more common and cheaper than E9x, at least in my province.
I agree with you. the N52/54/55 internals are probably stout enough, but all the "extra" crapola they put on them and the turbos and everything make DIY'ing less easy and more costly.

I also lament the e9x front ends and sedans, to me, the e9x sedan looks like a camry. if i was going to go newer, itd be a 128i from 2010-2011 vintage.
Never driven a 1 series but I personally do not like the design of the 1 series, and not many are for sale without a turbo.
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  #44  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:24 AM
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There is a silver e46 ZHP being sold in Calgary, Alberta. I see it from time to time on instagram. Its selling for $6900. Not sure about maintenance or repairs it's undergone. but it's worth a look.The dealer is located on 7500 6th street SE.

If I didn't have my current car, i'd consider it.
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  #45  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:27 AM
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I daily drive my 330ci, even in snow. It got to the point where I had to get of the car and push it in snow cause it got stuck. I didn't have winter tires so that made some difference. But all in all it is very daily driveable. Just do some preventative maintenance as others have mentioned and you should be good to go.
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  #46  
Old 07-12-2019, 03:05 PM
The Father The Father is offline
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There is a silver e46 ZHP being sold in Calgary, Alberta. I see it from time to time on instagram. Its selling for $6900. Not sure about maintenance or repairs it's undergone. but it's worth a look.The dealer is located on 7500 6th street SE.

If I didn't have my current car, i'd consider it.
Is that at the dealer that specializes in German Cars?

If so, it's automatic, was wanting a manual. And the owner of that dealer is a total jerk. Tried buying a E36 328i from them and he was a total douche about it.
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  #47  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:25 PM
John Davis John Davis is online now
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Is that at the dealer that specializes in German Cars?

If so, it's automatic, was wanting a manual. And the owner of that dealer is a total jerk. Tried buying a E36 328i from them and he was a total douche about it.
Just out of curiosity, what's to stop you from buying an E46 here in the U.S. and taking it back to Canada? Is there a heavy import tax or something?
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  #48  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:42 PM
The Father The Father is offline
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Is that at the dealer that specializes in German Cars?

If so, it's automatic, was wanting a manual. And the owner of that dealer is a total jerk. Tried buying a E36 328i from them and he was a total douche about it.
Just out of curiosity, what's to stop you from buying an E46 here in the U.S. and taking it back to Canada? Is there a heavy import tax or something?
No real reason. A couple inspections, maybe a slight tax, and a heavy drive. US is far from me (North Alberta). It'd be much easier to buy in Canada and even easier to buy in province.

Not very interested in travelling out of country at the moment either, I barely have time to travel a few hours away.
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  #49  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:33 PM
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Just comes to my mind.. If you're so worried about anything happening to your car.. are you sure you need ZHP which is in perfect condition? If you had standard 330i which looks normally used, then you wouldn't worry so much for one more scratch or bump. You just need one which had good maintenance.
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  #50  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:47 AM
The Father The Father is offline
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Just comes to my mind.. If you're so worried about anything happening to your car.. are you sure you need ZHP which is in perfect condition? If you had standard 330i which looks normally used, then you wouldn't worry so much for one more scratch or bump. You just need one which had good maintenance.
Very true, but there is only two ZHP's for sale in all of Canada that I'm truly interested in. The red one in 'immaculate' condition a province away, and a dark grey one in my own province. I'm going to be checking out the one in my province soon to see if I even want a ZHP/E46 (IE: I like how they drive and feel) both are similar in kms and stories, but there is a $5k price difference between them. Can't tell the condition of the grey one but I definitely prefer the red one.

Might check out a few E9X's, just to gauge my interest on them. Even a 1 series, to see how they look are in person. They aren't very photogenic IMO.
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