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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2015, 10:22 AM
dejongmr dejongmr is offline
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Reduced engine power DTC/DTS

Guyís a failure I would like to share with this forum, as this forum has been a great help for me in other matters. I own a preowned X5 48.i 2008 70.000 km. It had some problems when I bought it, as seen by me when I did the transfer. The fact that it had just 70.000 km and because it is in an excellent condition made me decide to give it a shot and fix the issues.

Fixes made, new coolant pump, thermostat, upper radiator hose, various O-ring seals for the coolant system, new seals for the valve caps, new seal behind the alternator base, new alternator, new seals in the vacuum pump, among other details.

However, there was one failure which did give me a lot of trouble.

DCS/DTC failure, reduced engine power, 4X4 failure, transmission failure, the whole Christmas tree. Which will leave you stranded if you do not know the issue. It happened to me every other day, sometimes just the engine power reduce failure, sometimes all. Driving traffic jams in 30+ degrees lifting coolant temperature to 110 degrees resulting in reduced power without messaging. It all was related to the same little problem. This due to the car entering emergency programs, with or without warnings. Mostly with warnings. Shutting the car off and on resolves the problem for a while and sometimes not, give it time to cool down with the hood open did resolve if turning the car off and on did not help. All has been resolved by the fixing the same little issue.

99 out of 100 times your car will not give failure codes.

I was really fed up with it doing a 900 km drive all the way in reduced engine power using manual shifting. I knew I could, as the engine did not give alarming sounds. (Modern cars are just too sensitive, in the end itís not more than a couple of pistons moving up and down. Just monitor your temperature in the hidden menu, and even that one has an overheating protection in the end).

The failure,

Affected models, E60 E61 E63 E64 E65 E66 E70.
Engine model N62/TU
Production period, 01/march/2005 untill 31/August/2009
Signs related to engine,
Reduced power, instable RPM at idle, poor gas economy, slow acceleration.
The engine will be in the emergency program, engine light will come upand the DSC/DTC light will be shown. As I mentioned above due to it you might as well have all the Christmas stuff I mentioned above.
If there are failure codes, it will be
2CF8, 2CF9, 2CFA, 5F77

Mostly (almost always) there will not be a code, itís an official sporadic failure that cannot be reproduced.

The reason,

Officially it is the motor cable tree, which temporal misses contact or the correct resistance.
The way the dealer will resolve it according to official BMW procedure, is putting in a new cable tree and connector for the butterfly valve.
The way you can resolve it yourself, is disconnecting the butterfly valve connector, clean it with contact cleaner and reposition the pins a bit. E.g. with a toothpick behind the copper clips, to assure they will make good contact after repositioning the connector.

That is all, cheap, easy, but a cause of a lot of trouble and hard to find as being the issue.
I saw a lot of topics regarding this failure messages, and walked through them all I think. But not one did resolve the issue, and none mentioned the butterfly valve connector. Thatís why I wanted to share it with you guys, as it turns out to be a common problem on the above mentioned models. You can also buy a kit with a new connector at the BMW dealer. However it is not necessary, I am driving 6 weeks without a problem up and down Mexico, long drives. Kicking itís *ss over 200 km for prolong times.

One more thing, I did read about temperatures here. Mentioning it should be around 103 degrees. This is not correct according my monitoring and the information I got from the dealer. At the highway kicking it, it will be within 90 degrees falling back to 80 degrees at times. Driving in the city it will be around 105 degrees, hitting a traffic jam and it will rise up to 110 degrees.

There has been a lot of talking here that it should be at 103 degrees, however the dealer informed me that it may even rise up to 130 degrees in certain conditions and it will not be a problem. I never saw that though. My car did kick in with power reduce while in a traffic jam and hitting 110 degrees without failure on the dash. It will give power again when you are moving and temperature drops a couple of degrees. But this was before I solved the butterfly valve issue. After it never did this again. I am talking outside temperatures of above 30 degrees.

I do have a coolant leaks though, but this has nothing to do with the temperatures as they are. It started when the butterfly problem was resolved, and engine reduced power is not kicking in during traffic jams. The pressure in the coolant system just rises more now, as of not reducing the power. The leakage is at the radiator, both sides and the dealer thinks it is the radiator. I myself think it are the O-rings of the lower small hoses which are on both sides, and start leaking a little bit (really a little) when the temperature and pressure rise during a traffic jam. still have to check that one.

Well that was, all, keep up the good work. As I said this forum has been a great help for me.
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2018, 04:30 PM
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ciacuzzo ciacuzzo is offline
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I'm experiencing the fault codes
2CF8, 2CF9, 2CFA, 5F77
Car goes into limp mode and I can not accelerate or accelerate very slowly.
I don't have any coolant issues.
The codes point to the throttle body position sensor and yes there is a repair kit part #
12517602973 that is 12" of wire with the throttle body connector on one end. The other end are bare wires that are to be spliced in to the existing harness.
I haven't tried it yet because I'm not sure how to take the connector off. I would love to see it done but haven't found anything yet.
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  #3  
Old 05-06-2018, 05:38 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejongmr View Post
Gthe motor cable tree, .
I am guessing this is the throttle body sub harness?

(Yes, an old thread...)

ciacuzzo, this is actually a somewhat common issue- the OP here had other issues, coolant and whatnot- I think all unrelated to thie harness problem.


Post pictures of the connector you are trying to get off....
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:46 AM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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Hate to bring up and old thread about a year ago I did the wire harness and replaced the throttle body with a used one along with the gas pedal since it was recommended to prevent failure again.

Yesterday on my way home from work I experienced the same problem a year later

Rpms jumping up and down limp mode followed along by all the 4 codes


Would u guys recommend replacing the throttle body with a new one? Or did my 1 year old NEW harness fail .

Really worried let me know don't want to spend 200$ on a new throttle body
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2019, 06:34 PM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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Update. Replaced throttle body

Worked fine seemed everything was back to normal


24 hours later at a street after driving for 30 mins in 80degree weather Los Angeles

I experienced the same problem except no reduced power or engine light

But definetly loss of power and
Only dsc and yellow brake light

Plugged in my scanner and no codes at all besides limp home mode

Shut it off and started back up and everything was normal I drove it 4 miles to the dealer to pick up the replacement harness and it was in stock ***x1f642;


Again i have replaced this harness a year ago and had no issues till now

And I still have not installed the new harness I just picked up today.

waiting for any suggestions from you guys before I replace AGAIN the updated harness

Would it be recommended to maybe make the harness longer towards the dme?
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:46 PM
ard ard is offline
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got nothing for ya...sorry...

I guess very carefully examine the harness? Especially parts that havent been replaced? (ie as you say towards the dme')
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:52 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Mein Auto: 2008 X5 4.8i E70 Sport
Do you have a scanner that can read the live data streams?


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:17 AM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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Yes I do have a live scanner what would I be looking for

Also I bought the harness again from the dealer I think I'm gonna do it all over and try to make it longer to the dme as possible
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:08 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Did you solder and shrink wrap the splices or did you use crimp connectors?
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:37 PM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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I used crimp connectors becuase the first time I soldered i still had the same issue


I originally used the metal round things that came in the kit Along with the heat shrink I still had the same problem intermittently which is why I ended up using crimps after which lasted months longer . I guess with the heat now their getting damaged?


Should I not extended the harness longer and try redoing it again with solder and the metal crimps the kit comes with and reuse the old harness to extend it longer to the Dme?

Or just start all over with the new kit and don't extend anything thank you again

Last edited by Hack213; 07-12-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:24 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Moisture will cause crimped connections to fail. Redo with soldered, western union type splice, and heat shrink tubing.
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:35 PM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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Thank you I will we redo it tonight that way . Do you recommend extending the original harness with the replacement part and my other replacement more further to the dme

Or will that be to much unnessacery work

I really appreciate the feedback I'm excited and I hope it helps others
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:22 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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I don't understand what you mean by "extending the original harness". You need to eliminate all of the existing splices and any damaged sections of the harness. I would not make the repaired harness any longer than the original.
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:29 PM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
I don't understand what you mean by "extending the original harness". You need to eliminate all of the existing splices and any damaged sections of the harness. I would not make the repaired harness any longer than the original.

Really sorry I meant if I should make the repair harness I bought from the dealer more extended and towards the DME
Eliminating more of the original harness

Or if the length of the repair harness is fine and nothing longer
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:38 PM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Putting the splice close to the DME, thereby replacing more of the existing harness, is OK. Find a location that gives you good access for making the repair. How many wires need to be spliced?
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  #16  
Old 07-12-2019, 05:56 PM
Hack213 Hack213 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
Putting the splice close to the DME, thereby replacing more of the existing harness, is OK. Find a location that gives you good access for making the repair. How many wires need to be spliced?
Thanks for your time I meant if it was necessary or good idea to replace more of the existing harness by combining my new updated dealer harness along with my 1 year old crimped updated harness ofcourse without the crimps and cleaner finish to avoid possible throttle cable problems that is all thank you really I don't know how much more to thank you as you are the only one taking time to help me
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