What's the deal with all these Lemon/Buyback 335i's? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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Old 11-03-2008, 08:51 AM
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carve carve is offline
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What's the deal with all these Lemon/Buyback 335i's?

Hey everyone. My neighbor got a loaded '08 335i last summer, and I've been lusting after it ever since. I don't want to pony up the cash for a new one though, so I'm looking used. I'm currently on the fence about whether to get an 07 335i or 07 Corvette.

I've called on a lot of 335s around the country, and it seems like all the good deals (price in low 30's) are dealer buybacks, and therefore have a lemon title. There are a huge number of these buyback cars for sale! The story I usually hear is the fuel pumps went bad, and they had to wait so long for the part BMW was buying them back. Is this true? I've searched high and low, and can't seem to find much info on this.

It seems to me the buybacks are going for about $30-$33k, and the clean title ones are going for $35-40k- Essentially a 15% or so discount. Do you think this is a reasonable discount? My main concern is that if this car proves to be unreliable (which has often been the case with new engine designs), I'll have a hard time selling it with a dirty title. Do you think it'll be hard to sell? What do you think would be a fair asking price range?

Also, is there a primary root cause that is causing the fuel pumps to fail? I ask because two weeks ago, I was about to find one. I tracked down the service history and found out this car was on it's THIRD fuel pump with only 11,000 miles on the odo! It's second pump failed in two months! Once the car is out of warranty, the part alone is $1500!

All this concern over powertrain reliability has me considering an 07 Corvette 6-speed, which are similarly priced. They are a bit faster and have a rock-solid powertrain with a 100k mile warranty, are probably much cheaper to work on when they do have problems, but aren't as classy or practical as the bimmer.

What do you all think? Should I avoid the buybacks? Should I wait a year until the '08 drops in price (although my current car might not make it that far)? Drive the Corvette for a couple of years until the N54 has the bugs worked out? Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2008, 10:11 AM
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mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
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so odd.

i have mar '07 delivery 335 and it hasn't had one problem.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:35 AM
murky murky is offline
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There are plenty of cars out there. No need to get a buyback. You can probably find a bunch of off-lease '07s. $35-40k is too high for a 2007 335i, unless you're looking for a convertible. A loaded 2007 335i coupe or sedan with low miles can be had for $30-32k.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:48 AM
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carve carve is offline
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I'm sure there are plenty of trouble free 07s out there. What I'm saying is there are a TON of 07 buybacks out there. Everyone I've called on listed for $32k or less has either been a buyback or extremely high mileage (at the end of their warrantys).

Murky: If you know of a non-buyback, low mile 07 with sport package/paddle shifters for ~$32k, particularly in the southwest (I'm in Albuquerque) I'd be very appreciative of any info on it.

Thanks
-Adam
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:49 AM
skiesforme skiesforme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murky View Post
There are plenty of cars out there. No need to get a buyback. You can probably find a bunch of off-lease '07s. $35-40k is too high for a 2007 335i, unless you're looking for a convertible. A loaded 2007 335i coupe or sedan with low miles can be had for $30-32k.
From what I have been seeing, a loaded (Premium, Sports, Navigation) 2007 CPO 335i Coupe would cost in the range 34-40k and a convertible would cost 44-54k.
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Old 11-03-2008, 10:51 AM
skiesforme skiesforme is offline
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Originally Posted by carve View Post
I'm sure there are plenty of trouble free 07s out there. What I'm saying is there are a TON of 07 buybacks out there. Everyone I've called on listed for $32k or less has either been a buyback or extremely high mileage (at the end of their warrantys).

Murky: If you know of a non-buyback, low mile 07 with sport package/paddle shifters for ~$32k, particularly in the southwest (I'm in Albuquerque) I'd be very appreciative of any info on it.

Thanks
-Adam
Not sure if you are looking for Coupe or Sedan.
Check these out:-

http://www.carmax.com/enUS/search-re...0-3a3342375bdb
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Old 11-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Strongmad Strongmad is offline
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Most state's lemon laws are written so that you can force a dealer buy back if you have to repair the same part of the car more than some number of times in a certain time period. Most likely, many of the dealer buy backs were due in some part to a failed HPFP. There were scattered reports of some 335 owners replacing their HPFP several times. It may just have been that some owners were fed up with the cars and demanded a buy back, who knows.
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:22 AM
bmwKbiker bmwKbiker is offline
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Originally Posted by Strongmad View Post
Most state's lemon laws are written so that you can force a dealer buy back if you have to repair the same part of the car more than some number of times in a certain time period. Most likely, many of the dealer buy backs were due in some part to a failed HPFP. There were scattered reports of some 335 owners replacing their HPFP several times. It may just have been that some owners were fed up with the cars and demanded a buy back, who knows.
+1
Many state lemon laws also have time in for service clauses.
HPFP replacements weren't always completed in a timely manner because for some time the replacement demand created a supply shortage.
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:14 AM
ncoig ncoig is offline
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All this concern over powertrain reliability has me considering an 07 Corvette 6-speed, which are similarly priced. They are a bit faster and have a rock-solid powertrain
Tell that to the guy who had to be towed from the street in front of my office last week when his computer crapped out instantaneously...



-N
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Alpine 335i Alpine 335i is offline
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BuyBack

Man, sounds similar to what happened to my 335i. I wonder how many times the vette went into the shop compared to my 335i. I am at 8 trips in my 2008; wished I would have got the vette. To the guy who wants a "BuyBack" 335i; I would not do it. My car is completely flawed and I guarantee you; I would not want to be the next buyer getting it. It's a piece of junk with several issues; just get a Lexus or Infiniti...I truly wished I did. Those idiots at BMW NA have not even fixed their turbo lag issue....that's been over a year; do u actually want to buy a car of that cost just to be blown-off like that. BMW obviously has no respect for the customer.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2009, 05:28 PM
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carve carve is offline
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I'm sorry to hear you're having so many problems with your car. Many here have not had cars with so many issues and are happy with their rides, but I totally understand your frustration if you get one with issues. Must've been built during Oktoberfest

I decided not to buy that buyback car, but have just ordered a CPO 07 335i with everything but nav, adaptive cruise, and parking sensors. I paid under $29k- several thousand than the cheapest similarly equipped buyback just a couple of months ago. Amazing how the weak economy and model year rollover saved me so much money in just 2.5 months! With that long warranty I'm not too concerned about reliability, and it should retain it's value much better than a buyback. If it proves as troublesome as yours, I'll sell it within the first couple of years of ownership.

I'm not sure if this car has it's original fuel pump. If so, I HOPE it fails while under warranty so I can get a fresh one. If not, I plan to add a little "Marvel Mystery Oil" (not as gimmicky as it sounds) to the gas periodically to help keep it lubricated.

Last edited by carve; 01-21-2009 at 05:33 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-22-2009, 11:54 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongmad View Post
Most state's lemon laws are written so that you can force a dealer buy back if you have to repair the same part of the car more than some number of times in a certain time period. Most likely, many of the dealer buy backs were due in some part to a failed HPFP. There were scattered reports of some 335 owners replacing their HPFP several times. It may just have been that some owners were fed up with the cars and demanded a buy back, who knows.
Lemon Law is not a remedy between the customer and the dealer. The remedy is between the customer and the manufacturer. The general rule is 4 failed repair attempts for the same item (such as HPFP) or 30 days in the shop for all repairs combined. One other thing about cars with Lemon Law titles is that your warranty rights and possibly additional Lemon Law rights may be compromised. If the car is being sold 'as-is' with a Lemon Law title, you generally don't have the Lemon Law as a recourse (even for defects other than what caused the car to be repurchased). Therefore, the dramatically lower price for the car.

If you want to get a sense of why the car was repurchased, the dealer should be able to give you a print-out of the warranty repair history on the car.

As to why so many Lemon Law buybacks, the car has a lot of new technology that apparently is still being sorted out. And then there is the manufacturing process - my E93 had a leak where the top attached to the A-Pillar/Windshield Frame that couldn't be resolved - even after the seal was replaced and attempts to shim the new seal failed.
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:07 PM
mbmarsh mbmarsh is offline
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Dumb question

How can you tell if the car is a buyback? I can't find anything on the carfax report to indicate such. And I've seen the service history on some carfax reports, but not all. How do you locate this?

Thanks!
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:19 PM
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rmorin49 rmorin49 is offline
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My 07 E93 was "bought back" in a deal orchestrated by BMWNA through my local dealer. Technically, it is a trade assist so the car has a clean title. The dealer is committed to fixing the issue and then selling it. Another buyer may be perfectly happy with the car even though I was not. The 07 MY and to some extent the 08s as well have had some issues, most notably the HPFP and with the convertibles, the dreaded "fluttering/vibration" issue. If the car is a lemon, the dealer is obligated to reveal same to the buyer. If it was a buyback or trade assist, I don't think there is any obligation to reveal its history. You can pay for a carfax and at least determine the number of owners, whether it was bought or leased, etc. Good luck.
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:42 PM
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:02 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
The 07 MY and to some extent the 08s as well have had some issues, most notably the HPFP and with the convertibles, the dreaded "fluttering/vibration" issue.
Based on responses to the HPFP thread, there woud appear to be problems with the '09 cars too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
If the car is a lemon, the dealer is obligated to reveal same to the buyer.
In CA, there is a little sticker that must be affixed to the drivers door that identifies the car as a Lemon Law car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
You can pay for a carfax and at least determine the number of owners, whether it was bought or leased, etc. Good luck.
Carfax for anything but new is a good idea.
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:04 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by mbmarsh View Post
How can you tell if the car is a buyback? I can't find anything on the carfax report to indicate such. And I've seen the service history on some carfax reports, but not all. How do you locate this?
Lemon Law buyback or Trade Assist buyback? Lemon Law will have an entry on the car's title report that is available from Carfax. Trade Assist buyback as rmorin posts, is a different beast.

Last edited by anE934fun; 01-27-2009 at 08:36 PM. Reason: Typo that got past the BF spellchecker (form vs. from)
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:37 PM
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ProfessorCook ProfessorCook is offline
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I read somewhere that there was a high pressure fuel pump issue, particularly in the '07 series, that BMW took a while to work out. I recall reading that the issue had been resolved for the replacement fuel pumps and later builds.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:36 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Try reading the HPFP thread on BF - there are owners with 2009 cars that are experiencing the failure.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:52 PM
alen alen is offline
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ill sell you mine for $31 07 335i loaded with everything except for active cruise control

25K miles
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:53 PM
alen alen is offline
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i think they did change my fuel pump tho :x its a coupe btw
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