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  #26  
Old 07-04-2016, 04:56 AM
regdfry regdfry is offline
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In reviewing Carly parameters that can be monitored, there is one called out as "Number of successful particle filter regenerations". Is this parameter incrementing with each of the attempted regenerations? Perhaps, your X5 is not completing the regen, and this leads to frequent attempts?
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  #27  
Old 07-04-2016, 04:11 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regdfry View Post
In reviewing Carly parameters that can be monitored, there is one called out as "Number of successful particle filter regenerations". Is this parameter incrementing with each of the attempted regenerations? Perhaps, your X5 is not completing the regen, and this leads to frequent attempts?
Thanks - yeah it looks like different vehicles seem to get different parameters available in the app.

I don't have "Number of successful particle filter regenerations", but I do have "Distance traveled since the last regeneration" and "fuel consumed since the last successful regeneration".

"Distance traveled since the last regeneration (m)" is currently on 208500m (which is 208km). This one is interesting. I do see this number reset when I'm monitoring a regen - but it isn't resetting *every time* that I'm monitoring regen-like parameters being reported. So perhaps theres something in this "mini-regen" & "full-regen" cycles I'm heard people refer to.
To confirm - I'll see regen-like parameters of the DPF surface temp climbing to mid 600 degrees C for 5-10mins, and the soot level drops down to 5-10gm, but then the soot level climbs quickly again when the DPF temp returns to normal temps (around 300 degrees). And sometimes the "Distance traveled since the last regeneration (m)" will reset. sometimes it will not. The regen isn't being interrupted - I'll keep driving each time to see it complete (at least, in terms of temperature and soot level but not necessarily "complete" as far as the app/ecu is concerned)

the "fuel consumed since the last successful regeneration" is currently showing 27 litres, so that probably sounds right (208km = 27litres - highish fuel use due to city driving last 200 km).
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  #28  
Old 07-04-2016, 04:16 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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If anyone has a diesel X5 of that era (2007 E70 3.0d - 125,000km) and the Carly app I'd be very grateful if you could monitor your soot level, surface temp of particulate filter, and distance since last regen and tell me what you see over time. (50-100km+ journey). I'd be extra grateful if you could check out the "produced soot mass per time" parameter (mine is right at the end of the parameter list - out of alpha order) to see if yours is spiking to an irregular number like mine is

I've continued looking at parameters trying to "zero in" on a sensor that might be playing up but I cant find any smoking guns. Of course it all may be completely normal!

This is what I'm trying to avoid...
"If the soot mass is over-estimated, too-frequent (excessive) regenerations take place, resulting in unnecessary fuel consumption penalty and rapid system wear-out, amongst other adverse effects."
from: https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpf_soot_sensors.php

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  #29  
Old 07-04-2016, 06:55 PM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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I don't use Carly for many reasons (mainly there are stories of ECU hiccups), I use a scangauge. Which monitors tons of parameters but can show 4 at a time. I monitor exhaust temp before oxidation, voltage and coolant temperature. I've done tons of research and I conclude the following (and answer a few FAQ).

1. Will regens start if the thermostat is faulty? Absolutely, long story short I've seen regens begin at just over 140f. Moreover, depending on the parameters your ecu chooses for engine temperature (higher temp for more efficiency, lower temp more power). Bottom line it changes engine temp marginally.

I have a 2012 X5 35d (EU spec 3.0sd). I have a regen usually once a tank (500 miles or so). Soot reaches between 20 and 30 and usually within a few minutes the soot reads zero. Exhaust temp remains at a tad over 1100f for 20 minutes then returns to 500ish. It is VITAL you allow every regen to complete it's cycle. Otherwise it will continue to try and you'll essentially always be under a regen. THIS is where issues with "green diesel" technology arises. Soccer moms running errands, quick trips, and never really driving it hard wreak havoc on a DPF, especially without proper regenerations. My X has 62000 miles and had had zero issues besides a tire pressure monitoring issue about a year ago.

My biggest tips:

Keep you oil changed on time with recommended oil. German engineers with doctorate degree's know better than I do.

During regens, constant throttle is imperative. This is obviously only easily done on the interstate. I don't mean stomp the throttle, just barely open, maintaining 75mph suffices. This keeps exhaust temps regularly over 1100f during regen. Driving it hard actually has a cooling effect on the exhaust temp because it's moving faster through the filter.

There are times you can't help it but try and avoid stopping the engine during a regen.

Buy a scangauge! I'm.not a salesman believe me buy it's an awesome product if you'd like to know what's going on under the hood. Plus it reads and clears codes.
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  #30  
Old 07-06-2016, 07:22 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
1. Will regens start if the thermostat is faulty?
...
Buy a scangauge! I'm.not a salesman believe me buy it's an awesome product if you'd like to know what's going on under the hood. Plus it reads and clears codes.
I've got no issue with regens starting. they seem to be starting fine, its just the frequency of them I'm concerned about. The scanguage looks great - thanks for the recommendation, but I'm not convinced Carly is giving me wrong info at this point. In saying that, I certainly dont trust it 100% - I'll prob take it to a mechanic prior to buying another stat monitoring system though
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  #31  
Old 07-06-2016, 07:36 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Does anyone know if exhaust pressure sensors need to be adapted (by a technician) when they are replaced?

that is my latest suspicion and at around $150 to replace I'm tempted. given many people say they often need replacing above 100,000km
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  #32  
Old 07-06-2016, 09:36 PM
blue dragon blue dragon is offline
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There is one exhaust pressure sensor on the 35d as far as I know, and if you replace it, it has to be recalibrated.
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  #33  
Old 07-06-2016, 09:37 PM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
I've got no issue with regens starting. they seem to be starting fine, its just the frequency of them I'm concerned about. The scanguage looks great - thanks for the recommendation, but I'm not convinced Carly is giving me wrong info at this point. In saying that, I certainly dont trust it 100% - I'll prob take it to a mechanic prior to buying another stat monitoring system though
I understand trust me. There are times that I've seen regens happen back to back, thsts usually due to driving conditions and distance driven. I had 3 regens on a 1000 road trip, but that was after weeks of stop and go driving to and from work. Since returning from that trip (a couple weeks ago) I had my first regen just today.

I really wish there was a way to bypass all this dang green diesel technology and drive it 150k+ miles practicality worry free.
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  #34  
Old 07-06-2016, 09:54 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue dragon View Post
There is one exhaust pressure sensor on the 35d as far as I know, and if you replace it, it has to be recalibrated.
ok - thanks - i just found your thread over here https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=885187 that talks about replacing it. Did you calibrate it yourself using... Rheingold (? just learning about that) ... or is that a job for an indy mechanic?
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  #35  
Old 07-06-2016, 10:17 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
There are times that I've seen regens happen back to back, thsts usually due to driving conditions and distance driven. I had 3 regens on a 1000 road trip, but that was after weeks of stop and go driving to and from work. Since returning from that trip (a couple weeks ago) I had my first regen just today.
thankyou - that is reassuring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
I really wish there was a way to bypass all this dang green diesel technology and drive it 150k+ miles practicality worry free.
same! caused a lot of stress. though i do feel like i've learnt a lot.
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  #36  
Old 07-07-2016, 08:38 PM
blue dragon blue dragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
ok - thanks - i just found your thread over here https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=885187 that talks about replacing it. Did you calibrate it yourself using... Rheingold (? just learning about that) ... or is that a job for an indy mechanic?
I calibrated it myself using Rheingold ISTA/D
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  #37  
Old 07-23-2016, 04:09 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue dragon View Post
I calibrated it myself using Rheingold ISTA/D
Can you please write which function under which section did you use in Rheingold to specifically calibrate the pressure sensor alone?

I have the exactly the same problem as PotsyDriver (regen every 35-80km, consumption ok considering, no oil loss) and after fitting a new sensor, the BMW technician told me that on "original diagnostics" there is no function to calibrate the sensor alone, only a function of "install a new DPF" which resets everything, including the ash amount to 0 and "DPF adaptation values".
A new pressure sensor (with new hose) gives the same readings as the previous and I am thinking it was the last possibility before having to really install a new DPF.
One interesting observation: when you have Carly on, then you switch off the engine but keep ignition on, the Differential pressure across particulate filter should logically show 0 mbar (this should be equal to any passenger car), but mine shows 8192 mbar (clearly wrong amount), somethimes 0 mbar flashes for a split second. Interesting.
Second observation: Just finished regen. on highway at the top of a small hill, and descended at 100 kph (almost no throttle) for 4km till the exit to the city. The soot level reading in Carly rose from 0 to 16g. That amount must be impossible to produce by that time...

For PotsyDriver: My produced soot level reads 0,9 mg/s at idle and 0,8-1,0 at around 1500rev. I did not have time to check while driving yet.

edit: Produced spot level when driving is indeed between 0,5-2,5g. I haven't noticed any spikes to abnormal levels yet. Only when accelerating from standstill it is around 4.5mg/s. At 58km/h set at tempomat it hovers from 0.6-1.0mg/s.

Last edited by mitocross; 07-28-2016 at 02:24 AM.
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2016, 07:46 AM
f30jojo f30jojo is offline
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Quick update on regens. I've been recording my miles between regens for a while and its almost exactly regenerating every 150 miles, give or take 5 miles. This seems like a lot to me but I do mostly city driving. I have a scangauge that shows when regen is happening in real time. There are 3 types of regen: forced, routine and spontaneous. Not sure how true that is as my regens are almost exactly at 150 mile intervals. Exhaust temp reaches 1160 ( just over 600c) for about 20 minutes. I've never thrown a code in 40k miles so I'm assuming 150 miles is ok?
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2016, 08:27 AM
ninja_zx11 ninja_zx11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Quick update on regens. I've been recording my miles between regens for a while and its almost exactly regenerating every 150 miles, give or take 5 miles. This seems like a lot to me but I do mostly city driving. I have a scangauge that shows when regen is happening in real time. There are 3 types of regen: forced, routine and spontaneous. Not sure how true that is as my regens are almost exactly at 150 mile intervals. Exhaust temp reaches 1160 ( just over 600c) for about 20 minutes. I've never thrown a code in 40k miles so I'm assuming 150 miles is ok?
Mine regenerates approx same as yours.City driving--regenerates after around 230-250kms(145-155 miles) but on hwy once i noticed that it had not regenerated even after 500kms.I didn't monitor at what mileage it eventually regenerated thou.

So it all depends on your driving profile.On hwy,more passive regens happening as exhaust temps are high already.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2016, 11:10 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30jojo View Post
Quick update on regens. I've been recording my miles between regens for a while and its almost exactly regenerating every 150 miles, give or take 5 miles. This seems like a lot to me but I do mostly city driving. I have a scangauge that shows when regen is happening in real time. There are 3 types of regen: forced, routine and spontaneous. Not sure how true that is as my regens are almost exactly at 150 mile intervals. Exhaust temp reaches 1160 ( just over 600c) for about 20 minutes. I've never thrown a code in 40k miles so I'm assuming 150 miles is ok?
Same here.
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  #41  
Old 11-10-2016, 04:46 PM
bingo100 bingo100 is offline
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Hi, I seem to be having the same problem as the OP. I drive a 2005 530D 231hp. When I bought it it had 50grams of ash and few months later lost power. Wouldn't do forced regen completely. DIS was starting it, it would go for 20-30 miles then back to square one (meaning high backpressure). Then had the filter professionally cleaned, weighed before and after, lost 98grams, backpressure on idle was 7mbar instead of 60-70. Oh, also used DIS to run the replace DPF procedure to zero out all parameters, ash was at 0g. Great. Then I noticed (with Carly) that it regenerates very often and throws 04667 (too frequent regenerations). This is causing issues because if I don't monitor it the 4667 error will eventually block regeneration and DPF will clog (happened to me twice now).
- I did all of the plausabilty tests available in DIS - all plausable
- Checked injectors with INPA - all at approx 50% (there are horizontal bars so they're all bang in the middle)
- Using 5W30 Motul X-Clean
- Replaced both thermostats
- Had intercooler hoses replaced + seals due to some oil in turbo
- Fuel filter replaced
- all 6 glow plugs and controller replaced (BERU)

And this keeps happening and just drives me crazy!





Don't have a picture at hand but also had one where it finished one regen, soot spiked and it started another one 10 miles after the first one.

As for what others mentioned about driving style during regen - absolutely best results when driving moderately. However, when it's clogged up and I'm having to force regen via software (carly or DIS, doesn't matter) I've found that I have to be beating it before it 'clicks' and raises temperature.
You can clearly see that in the first picture.
I know that regen worked because pressure dropped significantly afterwards, despite the sudden increase in soot.


Definitively a problem somewhere - fuel filter erorrs 3-5 months after replacing (using shell diesel), spark plugs started showing errors again after 3 months of replacing!

Last edited by bingo100; 11-10-2016 at 04:47 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2016, 09:30 AM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Did you also monitor "produced soot mass per time" parameter in Carly? Do you also have those spikes from 0,03-6,5ish to 655,35 g/msec? I wonder which sensor in car it uses to get the values. Might lead us to something...
Another question: Have you replaced a new pressure sensor and hose leading to it, after DPF cleaning? A cracked hose or failing sensor could be causing those funny soot levels.

Last edited by mitocross; 11-11-2016 at 09:37 AM.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2016, 09:34 AM
bingo100 bingo100 is offline
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I used to monitor it but never found this parameter useful. Don't quite remember if it was jumping like that. I'll set carly to measure it on the way home tonight and post results later.
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2016, 12:13 PM
bingo100 bingo100 is offline
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Originally Posted by mitocross View Post
Did you also monitor "produced soot mass per time" parameter in Carly? Do you also have those spikes from 0,03-6,5ish to 655,35 g/msec? I wonder which sensor in car it uses to get the values. Might lead us to something...
Another question: Have you replaced a new pressure sensor and hose leading to it, after DPF cleaning? A cracked hose or failing sensor could be causing those funny soot levels.
Here are the results, as promissed:


Nothing unusual there, as expected it regenerated more than generated given that it was in forced regeneration mode.

Unusual thing is, as per OP's issue, the soot mass rocketed for no reason as soon as regeneration status changed to blocked. I'm not going to dwell on this fact though, as the same symptom can occur right after a successful regeneration as well. (in other words, I have no idea what the heck is going on )

I would love to know how this particular DPF is calculating soot and how to make it behave itself.

Nope, didn't replace any sensors. But looking at backpressure readings at idle it may have something to do with it. Just today, starting the car when cold it was showing 13mbar, few seconds later it was 9mbar, and then two light stops away it was 25, then 35mbar. When I get in tomorrow I'm sure it will be in the 13-15 region. So it does react to heat.

I don't really want to replace it, would much rather do a part exchange for a 530i 272ps :grin:

Last edited by bingo100; 11-11-2016 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Answer to second question
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2016, 01:20 PM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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That could well be the sensor or the small hose connecting it to DPF - probably old and cracked. Those are relatively cheap parts and not hard to replace. No coding/resetting needed.
If you decide to change it,buy original hose,and don't listen mechanics offering a cheap cut hose from somewhere else. The hose is connected to DPF and gasses with temperatures more than 600 deg.C.
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2016, 01:46 PM
bingo100 bingo100 is offline
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@mitocross - I might give it a go later on. Should be a DIY jobby. But still deep down I think this is software rather than hardware problem.
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  #47  
Old 12-19-2016, 06:40 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Dropping in to this thread to update my status as its been a little while.
I was hell bent on removing the DPF and getting it cleaned out. My mechanic was not particularly keen to do this while the car was throwing no errors on the dash and the DPF was regenerating itself (albeit frequently). He noted there was a risk of causing other probs with damaging o2 sensors etc in removing the DPF. He was keen to just monitor it and make sure the right oil was in it.

It's been almost 6 months and I'm glad to say there's no other major problems and the DPF is continuing to regenerate - albeit still frequently - about every 100-120km.

After living with the car for a while I believe this is probably caused by 2 things:

a) it does a decent amount of city driving so driving habits probably force more frequent regens than usual
b) I believe the car had the wrong oil in it previously (which likely caused a timing chain failure - one that i've finally detailed in a sep thread) and I suspect the DPF is simply nearing the end of its useful life - which has been reached prematurely by the wrong type of oil creating excess soot for a period. Ash mass has risen from 36 to 38gm in the last 6 months. I suspect the actual value is higher than that as its a simulated figure I believe in this modal. It makes sense that the DPF would need progressively more frequent regens as it gets full of ash (ash isn't burnt off/removed as part of regeneration) - it wouldn't just operate at 100% efficiency until the day it dies.

So currently its regenerating itself fine, albeit frequently, and I have no loss in power or other problems. so I just intend to keep driving until the DPF one day completely clogs full of ash. that may be in 1 year - it may be 5+ years, but I figure I'll just get the DPF removed and cleaned, or replaced at that time.
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  #48  
Old 12-20-2016, 11:08 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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I should have stayed away and just kept driving my car ;-)

Now I've started reading about turbo waste gates and how they can fail.

On the N47 (yes, not my engine) they talk about a design problem with the waste gate failing partially open
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N47#Other_Issues

Is it possible the turbo wastegate is partially open - and creating excess soot? thus quickly filling up the DPF? any easy ways to check/diagnose?

any help/pointers appreciated
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:17 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
I should have stayed away and just kept driving my car ;-)

Now I've started reading about turbo waste gates and how they can fail.

On the N47 (yes, not my engine) they talk about a design problem with the waste gate failing partially open
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N47#Other_Issues

Is it possible the turbo wastegate is partially open - and creating excess soot? thus quickly filling up the DPF? any easy ways to check/diagnose?

any help/pointers appreciated
Should not faulty waste gate throw code?
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  #50  
Old 12-21-2016, 12:36 AM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Should not faulty waste gate throw code?
well - i'm not sure. I wondered if something like a wastegate fails gradually. sticking "slightly" open.

It was interesting to see mitocross also posted above about this "produced soot mass per time" parameter in Carly spiking to a very high number, the same behaviour I observed earlier in the thread, I thought maybe a randomly sticking or partially closed waste gate may have caused that irregularity.

No one in the thread has suggested which sensor that parameter may be generated by. Carly themselves have not provided any specific info to me at this stage. Of course its totally possible the app is at fault and just reporting odd/spiking numbers.

But the wastegate sounded like 1 thing (of many) that might produce excess soot if it was not operating 100% correctly.
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