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  #976  
Old 08-16-2017, 09:31 PM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampX3 View Post
>there are many batteries off the official lists that will do the job.....some key things they gotta have are: correct dimensions....vent if required.....amp hour rating

>get some fun practice in with your ISTA on registering !
So I registered the battery and did not observed any change in voltage. So I guess registration status was not feeding into any issue.

Last edited by AlphaBetaX5; 08-16-2017 at 09:38 PM.
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  #977  
Old 08-16-2017, 09:38 PM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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so After I posted the previous video, I went back to my screenshot folders and looked at the readings again, and saw this:
Under ECU Function - DME
there is a Battery Voltage that the value for this reading is 14.42V! !





Now I am going back to this basic question: What function shows the actual value of battery voltage?

Going back to ISTA user manual.
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  #978  
Old 08-17-2017, 05:38 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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don't get too excited about 13.8 volts

>many systems work ok at that 13.8 ....ensure you have the battery at least load tested at the auto store before buying new

>stick to the basics with the battery and follow the tests in the video showing what to check while static engine off. grounds, terminals are tight, while running

>you 14.4 static shows good

Last edited by swampX3; 08-17-2017 at 05:45 AM.
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  #979  
Old 08-18-2017, 08:29 PM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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Just to update what I did:
Using a voltmeter, the values of battery voltage were measured:
Battery voltage when engine running: 14.56 V
Battery voltage when engine Off: 12.7 V. Battery is OK.

Now going to square one: this must be some faults related to dsc. can live with it for now, till I find the root cause.

Background:
2009 X5 e70 at 90k miles runs slow at low speeds, feels like brake being pressed. Black plastic gear removed and replaced. Didn't help with jerking. Jolts when cornering especially when backing up from the carport and turning left. It kind of jumps.
Battery is OK,
Speed values from speed sensors are consistent. Sensors Okay
Removed front right wheel and inspected the brake pads, they're Okay, brake calipers working properly. Confirmed with ISTA-D results of performing brake pressure test.

Next to inspect:
Voltage on speed sensors
Voltage on Actuator motor
If no issues found there, transfer case fluid will be changed. I don't expect that tc fluid change would make any difference, but might as well perform it since its supplies already received!

I might actually perform a tire rotation too, if user manual permits it. Never heard if that can make any sense in this case, but would worth trying it out.

Down the road, might drain atf too.
And if the issue still remains, would rebuild / replace tc.
Might take months.


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  #980  
Old 08-19-2017, 05:23 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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good progress !

>great trouble shoot with software on the battery ....well done

>I don't expect that tc fluid change would make any difference

don't forget the experience of many ....the fluid changes in both the transfer case and transmission can make an enormous difference

>BRAKES .....sticking caliper test ....get a low cost infrared temp gun and shoot the discs after a drive ......see if any are off with high temps showing a maybe sticking caliper...a 2 mins job that can tell you loads

>crawl under and first rotate the front drive shaft ....no slop allowed ....any slop in a radial direction at the transfer case end shows a stretched chain/other stuff like sprocket teeth etc worn which can cause much trouble/mess up the guts and plastic gear.....check the universal joints too .....look for rust bleed around the joint/fasteners that indicates needle bearing failure

>slop at the front or rear differential end > fraction of degree can show worn gearing etc ....and check both diffs for oil level/change if needed

>follow the bavauto under bmw maintenance videos for your shafts inspections and report back....keep up the good work ....best wishes

Last edited by swampX3; 08-19-2017 at 05:24 AM.
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  #981  
Old 08-19-2017, 05:27 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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post 2 to isolate the transfer case for test

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=1#post9915566
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  #982  
Old 08-19-2017, 05:38 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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SHAFTS ...rotation etc checks ...watch at 3 mins in

>a good go by for all your axle and drive shaft basics testing....~ 3 mins into this video

>remember that the rotation of the front drive shaft in degrees gotta be tiny to indicate a good chain and sprocket drive .....just like a good bicycle or motorcycle chain slop/wear test

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  #983  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:33 PM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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Transfer Case Actuator potential free fix!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swampX3 View Post
http://www.aa1car.com/library/battery_runs_down.htm

Battery Voltage and State of Charge:

12.66v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%



I measured my battery's voltage a few more times, and seems like it is charged only 50%.
This morning battery was 12.0 V, then had the battery tested by Autozone, they confirmed it's only 50% charged even though it was after a 20 minutes drive. They offered to charge the battery and then test the alternator, but I wasn't sure if I can just remove the battery without any electronics messing up.
Planning to charge it fully, and observing the AWD function.
Have anyone charged their battery? Any procedure to follow before removing it?


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Last edited by AlphaBetaX5; 08-19-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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  #984  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:05 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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all you need for your X battery:testing/ swap/registering a new one etc etc

vehicular diy has some great videos on coding and programming too

he is your sunday homework....best wishes

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
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  #985  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:07 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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e70 x drive battery removal

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  #986  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:13 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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lessons from and unregistered battery

now y'all know how to register your battery with ista you must spread the word about what happens if you don't do it or forget

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  #987  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:15 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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good x drive battery info....e70 x

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  #988  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:12 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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battery registration with the carly app ...ios phone

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  #989  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:47 AM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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Transfer Case Actuator potential free fix!

Sorry for the long post!


I'd like to think that this is my last post about this issue to this thread, as I think I have found the root cause of my AWD issue.


A little background:

- On a '09 X5, E70 at 90k miles, had all the famous lights ON.

- Turned the worn plastic gear for 180 degrees. temporary fixed.

- malfunction Lights On and Off intermittently

- Car very slow and sluggish at lower speeds / when coming to a stop.

- Changed the plastic gear. Lights off. Car still sluggish.


Diagnosis:

- After reading other people's experience (specifically of @bubbaspaarx, was suspicious of wheel speed sensors (pulse generators), installed ISTA-D, tested many modules. found voltage acting weirdly. also found sensors OK.

- Checking the history of battery, charging cycles, driving profile all via ISTA-D, and measuring battery voltage using a multimeter in different situations, found that battery is only charged at 40-60 % most of the times: see picture 1

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According to BMW literature, the battery must be at the state of charge at 60-100% more than any other percentiles. This was the first indication of a faulty battery.

-Had Autozone check the battery. 50% charge was confirmed. Battery removed from the car for a full charge (took 90 minutes at Autozne), battery installed.

-Received 12 fault codes according to ISTA-D, also the dash illustrated several MILs, including AWD, DSC, ABS, Brake, Battery Discharge, Auto-H Brake and Parking Brake. All due to the drop of voltage during the battery removal and installation.

pic 2Click image for larger version

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- Note: I have a battery jump starter. decided to use that as a backup battery, while the car battery is being charged. So, I connected that to the jump terminals under the hood. Though the backup battery was not fully charged, and had less than 10% charge. Didn't have much time to charge it up enough, so I used it anyway to keep the car's computers awake and alive, so I can remove the battery without much troubles, charge it, and install it back again.... I charged the battery (took 90 min), returned home to install the battery but found the car dead. Also found the backup battery dead... measured the voltage on the terminals, found 2.5 V. I decided to NOT remove the backup battery, assumed that little voltage might have still held the electrics awake. And sure was I right. Got in the car (luckily door was not locked), crept into the trunk area, pulled the emergency exit plug, and opened the trunk liftgate manually. Installed the now-fully-charged battery, disconnected the backup battery and started the car. Voila! Car's alive! Only had to reset the time.



- Test drove the car! all the MILs cleared after driving 10 feet! and needless to say, car runs smoothly, and feels so much power!! The power of X drive finally is back to the car!! It was a day-night difference!


- Cleared all faults codes in ISTA , checked battery, speed sensors, reset and re-calibrated the DSC and Adaptations.


Explored ISTA-D on troubleshooting the servomotor fault code. ISTA-D suggests that Unfavorable Driving Profile is the root cause. Which I already knew.


Therefore it recommended to use a battery charger with sufficient charge current (e.g 7 A) to be used to charge the battery to avoid the battery flat.

Pic 3 Click image for larger version

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According to ISTA-D's reading of the car's driving profile, of 162 car's trip, all 162 were less than 20 kilometers, with majority of them between 5-10 Km. Therefor the battery never actually got a chance to charge.


And the car had NONE trip longer than 100 km.

Anyways, car runs very smoothly for now after the battery was fully charged. Going to purchase a battery charger with ~7A to help keep the car alive!


My conclusion:

If you are having this issue (lights illustrated, plastic gear worn, car jerking at lower speeds) you are going to check few things:

1- measure your battery voltage on a cold start (in the morning)

2- Use ISTA and find out your driving profile's history

3- Again, use ISTA and find out your battery 's state of charge history, and registration status.

4- If battery looks perfect and your driving profile is favourable, more to next 7.

5- If Voltage is below 12.6, start troubleshooting. Check your alternator, check for any parasitic drain, and short. Have Autozone check your battery, and charge it.

6- Use a backup battery to keep the computers alive, and fully charge the battery, and install it back and test drive it. You should feel better by now. if not, check other components.

7- Check and inspect the wheel sensors: Find the sensor connectors in a plastic box affixed to the body. Open the hinged small box and disconnect the speed sensor connector. Deep inside the connector, you will find two prongs. Use a multimeter in Diode position (an arrow with a line in front) and test the prongs. You should either see no change, or a number. Now reverse the multimeter leads to the prongs, and you should see the other option: a number or no change. (in my case, sensors showed 420 for all four sensors) if one sensor shows a different number, stop there. You most likely have found the root cause! Confirm your finding with ISTA.

8- Replace and install the faulty sensor. Now you should definitely feel better. Beware the wheel bearing reportedly goes bad, resulting in an incorrect speed reading. Rule that out before you proceed to speed sensor replacement.

9- If battery charge is good, all sensors are good, and your transfer case throws no fault code (either via ISTA or Carly), then inspect your tires. All four tires must have identical thread wear and circumference.

10- If all above are good, time to look into the actuator motor, Transfer case or rebuilding it. If that is the case, there are some other threads discussing it. Consult with them.



This issue happens when:


Driving profile is unfavourable. Means car drives shorter than 20km (~12 miles) per trip.

Therefore battery loses its charge.

Servomotor relies heavily on correct voltage to distribute the drive power, and is very sensitive to voltage fluctuations. Which is why it throws a code once the voltage is too low.

- Can be a the results of a faulty speed sensor too. Finding that one is more straightforward.



Symptoms:

Car loses power. MPG increases. jerking and sluggishness at low speeds happens often. Several MILs shown on dash, including DSC, ABS, AWD, 4x4. Plastic gear inside servomotor (actuator motor) is worn. You might hear some noise underneath the ca on driver side, coming from the actuator motor



Solutions

My solutions would be i. To use a CTEK charger and charge the battery once a week, ii. To take the car for longer trips more often. iii. To install ISTA-P to code and register the current battery properly. iv. To change the battery eventually to an AGM.



Will report back the results if the issue is back after applying the solutions.



Thanks @SwampX3 for his great mentoring and helps

Last edited by AlphaBetaX5; 08-22-2017 at 05:06 PM.
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  #990  
Old 08-22-2017, 01:53 AM
bubbaspaarx bubbaspaarx is offline
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Brilliant. Glad it's all back to normal. Still think it's odd that a battery has this much affect on the car but at least it's solved all your issues.




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  #991  
Old 08-22-2017, 03:34 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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top notch ...sherlock holmes status !

> very very well done on the trouble shoot and sticking with it !

>write up was top notch

>pics and illustrations were great addition to the FESTCHIVE

>may be look at solar charger ...they are much better controlled these day ......but.... some can buckle in the heat too...the cheap ones that sit behind the glass can put up enough amps to pop the cigarette lighter fuse down here in the swamp sun

>the poor battery situation also affects the newer electric assist steering.... so .....be wise to that one

>as costly as these X's are we're still waiting for bmw to incorporate a cetek style charger that would tell the driver simply to plug me in because of low battery/driving profile ....it world be simple to give the non tech owners a nice message and maybe plug receptacle mini like the welders trucks have but small version....maybe one day....they have lost many customers because of this one shortcoming that could be easily remedied.....soccer moms will not drag out the ceteK and hook it up once a week or so!
....they could also do it solar with no driver intervention needed except for alaska in winter !

>here is your next homework in link below.....find the equivalent ISTA tracking/screens/path for the old INPA aircon evaporator temp sensor and ac analogue profile....it will come in handy in the heat one day when you may have warm air only out of one vent situation....best wishes....keep up the excellent posts !


Last edited by swampX3; 08-22-2017 at 04:13 AM.
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  #992  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:01 AM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampX3 View Post
> very very well done on the trouble shoot and sticking with it !

>write up was top notch

>pics and illustrations were great addition to the FESTCHIVE

>may be look at solar charger ...

>the poor battery situation also affects the newer electric assist steering.... so .....be wise to that one !

>here is your next homework in link below.....find the equivalent ISTA tracking/screens/path for the old INPA aircon evaporator temp sensor and ac analogue profile....it will come in handy in the heat one day when you may have warm air only out of one vent situation....best wishes....keep up the excellent postse !



You're brilliant Swampx3! Just brilliant!


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  #993  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:53 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is offline
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interesting tire size observation from the FEST

see post 4 to start

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?t=1108713



#4 Report Post
Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM
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We see this issue quite a bit at the dealer, especially in E83s. Shuddering while driving caused by uneven tire circumference;straight or turning.

Also, even if the same brand/style check country of origin. We have seen Continental tires that are the exact same model, type and size but made in different countries that has a circumference difference of roughly 2cm. Just differences in the molds, I suppose.

If the difference is over 1cm I'd try borrowing/swapping on a set of even sized tires to see if your issue goes away before doing any tcase work.

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  #994  
Old 12-31-2017, 08:21 PM
bosemk bosemk is offline
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I had same problem with servo motor black gear. went on Ebay ordered black and white gear from Germany[I live in Australia] pay $43.00AUD Dollars delivered
lift the car not that hard to pull the actuator out. open the actuator replace the black gear only. no needed to replace white gear. put back no lights good as gold for another 150.000 thousand Km
can buy black gear from UK Germany I don't know if can buy from US
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  #995  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:18 AM
Joepa330 Joepa330 is offline
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Already been replaced. The parameters can't be set because the motor won't communicate with computer.

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  #996  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:26 PM
BMWZ3/X3owner BMWZ3/X3owner is offline
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There is a kit that BWM offers (cost me 175.00)to fix this problem. It includes all gears (they are plastic as well) as well as a couple of other items. Replacing (or I've seen where some people just turn the black plastic gear) is a band aid and will not fix this issue every time.
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  #997  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWZ3/X3owner View Post
There is a kit that BWM offers (cost me 175.00)to fix this problem. It includes all gears (they are plastic as well) as well as a couple of other items. Replacing (or I've seen where some people just turn the black plastic gear) is a band aid and will not fix this issue every time.
Do you have a BMW part number on that kit?
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  #998  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:36 PM
kc baby kc baby is offline
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2008 x3 jerking once foot on the gas peddle

hello every one... i took my 2008 x3 to get breaks on it and it never made it out this shop...4x4 light flash... and the car start to jerking ..... they had my car for 21 days and can not find out what worng with it and charge me $2,000 for rear main seal leak and engine oil pan gasket...defferential service.... new transmisssion pan gaseket...new engine rear crank shaft seal i had all this work done and car will not drive the 4x4 light now stays on. .... i could not take it know more so i had it tow to the BMW dealer and they trying to find out why it jerking when you put your foot on the [email protected] the BMW dealer they service the transfer case and Said i needed a steerig angle sensor and they charge me $1,100 and it not fix still....they keep the car again and told me we will find out what wrong with it and that going to be another
$500.00 to find that out PLEASE HELP

Last edited by kc baby; 02-26-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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  #999  
Old 02-27-2018, 02:53 AM
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AlphaBetaX5 AlphaBetaX5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timfitz63 View Post
Do you have a BMW part number on that kit?


For X5 with ATC 700:

Repair kit servomotor

27102413711
Includes:

Installation grease GE5G1
83232357146

Loctite 5970 liquid sealant50ML1
83190404517$23.40

02ASA-BoltM8X55-ZNS34
27107539410$2.76

03Set, classification resistor1
27107568311$33.24

04ISA screwM5X121
13547682039$2.25

05Loctite 5970 liquid sealant50ML183190404517$23.40

06Installation grease GE5G1
83232357146

07Socket housing8-POLIG1
12527520151$6.70





I assume the servomotors are similar.





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  #1000  
Old 02-27-2018, 03:15 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc baby View Post
hello every one... i took my 2008 x3 to get breaks on it and it never made it out this shop...4x4 light flash... and the car start to jerking ..... they had my car for 21 days and can not find out what worng with it and charge me $2,000 for rear main seal leak and engine oil pan gasket...defferential service.... new transmisssion pan gaseket...new engine rear crank shaft seal i had all this work done and car will not drive the 4x4 light now stays on. .... i could not take it know more so i had it tow to the BMW dealer and they trying to find out why it jerking when you put your foot on the [email protected] the BMW dealer they service the transfer case and Said i needed a steerig angle sensor and they charge me $1,100 and it not fix still....they keep the car again and told me we will find out what wrong with it and that going to be another
$500.00 to find that out PLEASE HELP
What work did you authorize? Lawyer up!
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