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X1 E84 (2011 - 2015)
First generation BMW X1 availbe as a X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i xDrive.

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  #1  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:39 AM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Well, sh*t..

So, not 4 months of ownership of a 2013 BMW X1 I get a dreaded 'Engine Malfunction' come on when coming home.

Pulled off immediately but as I'm doing so I see a RED 'Oil level low' light. Very strange given that I only changed the oil a month ago.

Wife rescued me, I added some oil and started it - it turned over but it sounded 'rattly'.. So we had it towed home that night. I wanted to research where to take it and call around.

Looking into it I'm assuming timing chain is flapping/stretched/loose and possibly guide disintegration is starting. I'm over 100,000 miles so no warranty.

Today it was towed to the mechanic. Waiting to see whether the engine is toast (the mechanic was happy to hear it had started once stopped but advised, understandably, not to start it again).

Which brings me to my next annoyance with the X1 - how to get the damn thing in Neutral without starting the engine. I felt like I had to when I had the initial tow to home from the roadside but then felt like I needed to research how to do that so I wouldn't have to start it again. I found a similar thread on here for a different model and year and tried those steps but it just would NOT go into neutral. Advice from the mechanic and the tow truck driver tried as well. Very disappointed in BMW - they seem to assume everything will work just fine until it doesn't.

So, along with the mechanic's advice over the phone he said to drag it on the flatbed. So much cringing when the rear wheels are scuffing on the driveway.

I'll report more when I have more info but I'm really not liking the 'BMW experience' so far.
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2019, 09:09 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
I'll report more when I have more info but I'm really not liking the 'BMW experience' so far.
So here's my advice.

First, don't let emotions get the better of you. You bought a used car, which is always a gamble, you're over 100K miles, which isn't "low mileage" by any stretch of the imagination, and you also have no idea how the previous owner(s) treated the vehicle. That being said, I get it, you're pissed off about the problem (I would be too).

Second, find out what's wrong with it first. If it's the timing chain guide failure, that is a known issue. Take it up with your BMW dealer and see what they're willing to do for you in terms of advocacy. You may end up having to advocate for yourself, which is also fine. My personal experience with BMW is that they can be very accommodating when you deal with them professionally. I had to get explicit permission from BMW Canada to be able to have recall work done in the USA. This is normally not allowed at all, but I got an exemption by being polite, professional and explaining my situation in a non-confrontational way. Again, the timing chain guide failure is a known weak point in the N20 engine. It's documented. There are TSBs on it. From other owners who experienced this failure (which, TBH, is still pretty rare), many have been able to get compensation / make a deal with BMW when they've approached the problem in a non-adversarial manner.

As for putting the vehicle in neutral without starting the engine. Yes, this is possible to do. The instructions are in this thread:

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1113273

Best of luck and keep us updated with what's happening.
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Last edited by Yukoner; 11-21-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2019, 10:13 AM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Yea, that was the thread that I found and read yesterday. It didn't work this morning. Have you done it yourself?

I know you're kind of an apologist for BMW on these forums but the whole things is pretty BS when it comes down to it. I actually wasn't TOO 'pissed off' until I read your reply.

Documented or 'known' is really irrelevant. The reasonable expectation is that cars last longer. Oh, and the car had dealership maintenance and regular oil changes when I checked its history before buying.

We'll see what we do going forward. Thank you for your input.
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Old 11-21-2019, 11:11 AM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Spotify know's what up...

Coldplay Up and Up:

"fixing up a car to drive in it again
when you're in pain
when you think you've had enough
don't ever give up
don't ever give up"

Hmm.. thanks, Coldplay.
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Old 11-21-2019, 11:19 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
Yea, that was the thread that I found and read yesterday. It didn't work this morning. Have you done it yourself?

I know you're kind of an apologist for BMW on these forums but the whole things is pretty BS when it comes down to it. I actually wasn't TOO 'pissed off' until I read your reply.

Documented or 'known' is really irrelevant. The reasonable expectation is that cars last longer. Oh, and the car had dealership maintenance and regular oil changes when I checked its history before buying.
Yes, I've been able to put an X1 into neutral using those instructions.

I'm not an apologist. I'm a realist. You bought a 6 year old used car. Likely for less than 50% of the cost of new (probably closer to ~30% of new). You have no idea how previous owners treated it. We have no idea how YOU treated it.

"The reasonable expectation is that cars last longer." Sure, if you buy it brand new. Again, you don't know a thing about how that car was treated throughout its life before you owned it. Also, then you're a single owner, since new, and have a whole lot more leverage / goodwill when it comes to dealers and manufacturers helping you out. Oh..... cost too much brand new ?.....

Sorry, not trying to be rude, but a dose of realism is often needed. People do this all the time. They buy used luxury goods at 20%, 30% of their original value and then lose their minds when something goes wrong. It's like buying a 10 year old used Rolex for half the price of a new one, then losing your mind when you realize it needs dealer servicing that cost $2K. Bottom line, if you're expecting a perfect running vehicle, don't buy it used. Used vehicles are ALWAYS a gamble, regardless of brand, regardless of model. If you can't afford to buy it new, then maybe you shouldn't buy it at all ?
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Old 11-21-2019, 01:30 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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... I'm not an apologist. ...
An apologist is one who speaks or writes in defense. Very different from one who makes an apology, an apologizer, of remorse or regret for harm done. There is no harm in realism and the truth.
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Old 11-22-2019, 12:59 PM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Yea, engine is dead. Around $6,000 to fix. Not sure if I'm going to bother since the price of the car was $11,000
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:34 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Yea, engine is dead. Around $6,000 to fix. Not sure if I'm going to bother since the price of the car was $11,000
Is $6K to fix it, or is that a replacement engine (used or new) ? Is BMW chipping in any $ towards it ? The dealer or the manufacturer ?
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:41 PM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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that's a used engine (with it's own nightmare problems I'm sure) and the labor to do it. I have not yet contacted BMW but I plan to and see what they say. Mechanic thinks they'll likely wash their hands of it given age and mileage and being out of warranty. Still, it doesn't hurt.

Regardless of what you all on here think/say, I DO think it's pretty lousy that a brand like BMW has such catastrophic failures going on. I've had cars a LOT older than this little X1 that run and run. You buy 'luxury' brands because you think they're made better and therefore will last longer. Just not the case it seems.
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Old 11-22-2019, 01:49 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
that's a used engine (with it's own nightmare problems I'm sure) and the labor to do it. I have not yet contacted BMW but I plan to and see what they say. Mechanic thinks they'll likely wash their hands of it given age and mileage and being out of warranty. Still, it doesn't hurt.

Regardless of what you all on here think/say, I DO think it's pretty lousy that a brand like BMW has such catastrophic failures going on. I've had cars a LOT older than this little X1 that run and run. You buy 'luxury' brands because you think they're made better and therefore will last longer. Just not the case it seems.
So is this the cost from an independent mechanic ? And they're suggesting used engine transplant ?

"You buy 'luxury' brands because you think they're made better and therefore will last longer." And there-in lies a misconception. Arguably, they are made better, yes, but "lasting longer", often not. Like I said, a Timex watch will likely never need a single servicing in its lifetime. A Rolex will need many. Luxury and quality have nothing to do, and are mutually exclusive, with reliability.

I would have a diagnosis done at a BMW dealership (hopefully one you have a relationship with), and see what they determine. Feel free to post the diagnosis report so we can take a read. Perhaps we can give some insight, or help you figure out how you might move forward.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:17 AM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
that's a used engine (with it's own nightmare problems I'm sure) and the labor to do it. I have not yet contacted BMW but I plan to and see what they say. Mechanic thinks they'll likely wash their hands of it given age and mileage and being out of warranty. Still, it doesn't hurt.

Regardless of what you all on here think/say, I DO think it's pretty lousy that a brand like BMW has such catastrophic failures going on. I've had cars a LOT older than this little X1 that run and run. You buy 'luxury' brands because you think they're made better and therefore will last longer. Just not the case it seems.

BMW's are high performance, expensive, and not always durable.

Mercedes and Audis are mostly worse.

Toyotas are the cars that can last a long time and be cost efficient.

I bought new 14 X1 s28i M sport and the best car I've ever seen.

Of course, it's only 28k miles, and taken care of.

Any 100k mile car is considered worn out, and I'd be glad to get it running for only $6k.

Last edited by 0w40X1; 11-23-2019 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 12-05-2019, 06:35 PM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Yea, absolutely no help from BMW North America. They just shrugged their shoulders and are not going to help at all. Wouldn't even help with the diagnostic fee I incurred from the dealer since they wouldn't accept word from a third party mechanic.

Not sure what I'm doing with the BMW yet. I'm loathe to have it eat more money. Probably in all likelihood either part it out or just junk it.

Then again I saw this 'Manish' Indian mechanic dude on YouTube doing an N20 rebuild, maybe it should become a training exercise for my son and I to remove the engine ourselves? .. lol
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:39 PM
derSpeed derSpeed is offline
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[/QUOTE]Any 100k mile car is considered worn out, and I'd be glad to get it running for only $6k.[/QUOTE]

Maybe true for BMW, but I have to respectfully disagree with "Any." Anyway, when my X3 started having issues at 60,000 miles, I thought it was ridiculous. Whenever there was an issue below 100,000 miles, the dealership service writer usually said, "That's just BMW." I'd reply, "But I baby this car." He would respond, "It doesn't matter." My X3 developed coolant and oil leaks before 80,000 miles. That's just crazy.

I have owned may cars, and most German brands sold in the US. I never had lame-a$$ problems with them like I had with my BMWs. I wouldn't normally generalize, but I have been around long enough to know I am not alone.

Last edited by derSpeed; 12-05-2019 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:20 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Yea, absolutely no help from BMW North America. They just shrugged their shoulders and are not going to help at all. Wouldn't even help with the diagnostic fee I incurred from the dealer since they wouldn't accept word from a third party mechanic.
Then why don't you take it to a BMW dealership ? You actually thought the manufacturer would help you out when you don't even have an authorized-dealer verified report of the failure ?



Wow. Just, wow. Some people and their expectations
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:40 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Yep:

Last Activity: 12-05-2019 06:58 PM

Over a week since the last login. Exactly like I said - OP was going to disappear and never return, forever being angry because he wasn't able to handle himself professionally and actually have a shot at BMW helping him out. Queue the slow clapping.
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Old 12-21-2019, 06:36 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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He didn't even say/know what was wrong with the engine. It started again but made a rattley sound so he got it towed to a mechanic. The mechanic said the engine was dead. He said the dealer wouldn't even help him with the diagnostic but doesn't tell us what diagnostic was even done or what they concluded from that. For all we know his indie is taking him for a ride to get a new engine and the dealer is not going to put a new engine in his car for less than the 6k he was quoted by his indie. Maybe his timing chain has started to fail and he just needs a new set of chains/guides but he will never know because he has "had it"

Quote:
Then again I saw this 'Manish' Indian mechanic dude on YouTube doing an N20 rebuild, maybe it should become a training exercise for my son and I to remove the engine ourselves?
Ya, because this sounds like someone capable of rebuilding an engine...
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Old 12-24-2019, 10:18 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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He didn't even say/know what was wrong with the engine. It started again but made a rattley sound so he got it towed to a mechanic. The mechanic said the engine was dead. He said the dealer wouldn't even help him with the diagnostic but doesn't tell us what diagnostic was even done or what they concluded from that. For all we know his indie is taking him for a ride to get a new engine and the dealer is not going to put a new engine in his car for less than the 6k he was quoted by his indie. Maybe his timing chain has started to fail and he just needs a new set of chains/guides but he will never know because he has "had it"
OP is, unfortunately, very stereo-typical of a used BMW purchaser. Doesn't have the money to buy a brand new one, so buys a used one and then loses his mind when the maintenance / repair costs are higher than a Kia Rio.....

I've posted so many times about this in the E90 and E84 forums. It's a luxury car. Expect "luxury" upkeep, maintenance and repair costs. If you can't handle that, don't buy the damn car
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Old 12-25-2019, 04:26 AM
kevman2 kevman2 is offline
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Thats too bad for the OP, buying a high mileage used car always dangerous, esp for 11k. i bought mine new, and she now has 153k miles. Best car I have ever owned. Change oil every 10k, and really have not done much else. Still runs like new, tight as a drum.

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Old 12-25-2019, 04:54 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Thats too bad for the OP, buying a high mileage used car always dangerous, esp for 11k. i bought mine new, and she now has 153k miles. Best car I have ever owned. Change oil every 10k, and really have not done much else. Still runs like new, tight as a drum.
Seriously ? Like no Valve Cover Gasket ? No Oil Filter Housing Gasket ? Anything beyond regular routine maintenance ?
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Old 12-26-2019, 04:32 AM
kevman2 kevman2 is offline
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2 windshields replaced, brake pads at 100k. On third set of tires. Thats about it. Drive about 90 miles per day round trip to work. Mostly highway miles. Has been a great car. Shooting for 200k.
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Old 12-26-2019, 10:25 PM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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So nothing broke that was cars fault.

Your driving IS very easy compared to people that test it for noise all day long.

I like that you can get 100k out of pads.

Is your car x28i or s28i? And did you ever change transmission fluid or differential?
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Old 12-27-2019, 04:46 AM
kevman2 kevman2 is offline
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x28i...no tranny or differential fluid changes. Awesome car.
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:44 AM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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x28i...no tranny or differential fluid changes. Awesome car.
Good to know. I've said the same about my s28i as being the best car I've ever had.

I changed the differential oil at approx 5k miles to Mobil 1 75w90, and mostly wanted to see the BMW fluid.

It had no metal mud in it like I saw in My Mazda RX8.

So you didn't ever change spark plugs?

I like your low touch approach.
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:24 AM
kevman2 kevman2 is offline
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Original spark plugs, original battery. She is a beast!
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Old 12-27-2019, 05:34 PM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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You da man kevman2!
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