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X1 E84 (2011 - 2015)
First generation BMW X1 availbe as a X1 28i with either sDrive (RWD) or xDrive (AWD) or the US exclusive I6 N55 powered X1 35i xDrive.

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  #26  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:11 AM
mcdanielvzw mcdanielvzw is offline
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Like hearing your updates kevman2, I'm in the same boat with an 80 mile round trip daily. 2.5 years and the X1 is paid off, I won't mind driving it as much for work as well as pleasure/road trips.

My e90 328i has 146k now, I did a lot of maintenance to make sure it lasts to at least 225k. It needs the VCG, still sitting in my garage until I get a free weekend day to do it. I drive it hard and RWD sometimes feels faster than AWD, though I know it isn't.

My X1 35i is sitting at 67k now, and it gets 6k oil changes and will get a diff/transmission fluid change around 80. Plugs changed so far, but that is it other than the bolt on mods to make it rocket fast.

Agree with Yukoner, these are all still luxury cars. I do all the work I can myself or I'd never own one even making decent money. People like to complain about a 'cheap car' that was and may never be cheap.

Last edited by mcdanielvzw; 12-28-2019 at 05:12 AM.
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:32 AM
mcdanielvzw mcdanielvzw is offline
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Side note, anyone else use the maintenance log to see exactly what they've spent on their car/home/etc? I started and it's interesting to see. Purchase price and monthly payments not included of course, but my 09 was bought cash for $8400 at 116k miles June of 18.

Maintenance costs to date *including* all mods
2014 X1 - 941.19 (occ, dp, used old charge pipe from my wrecked 2015)

2009 328i - 3377.70 (inflated because I bent 2 rims on a berm... bought used coupe rims... 2 tires and 2 rims were effed so I had to replace tires, true/weld rims + purchase 1 new rim...) Does not include roughly $150 to replace every. dang. bulb. in the car on purchase.
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2019, 05:52 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
It had no metal mud in it like I saw in My Mazda RX8
Wooooooooooo, I used to have an RX8. Hated the exterior colour, but honestly really liked the car and how it drove. Definitely not cheap on the maintenance tho (especially those damn ignition coils). Pic attached below.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdanielvzw View Post
Agree with Yukoner, these are all still luxury cars. I do all the work I can myself or I'd never own one even making decent money. People like to complain about a 'cheap car' that was and may never be cheap.
That's the problem. People equate the value of the car with what THEY paid, used. An E90 is, depending on features and trim and model and all that, ~$60K brand new. THAT is the value of the vehicle, and it is the basis for what all replacement parts cost. A $900.00 water pump ? Yeah. A replacement crate engine for $35K ? Yeah. Again, basing all of that against the ORIGINAL cost of the car. The issue is that people don't do that, they only value against what they paid used, which is usually a significant depreciated value. It's really hard to explain to people, TBH
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  #29  
Old 12-28-2019, 07:58 PM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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Yeah, RX8 and X1 s28i are both low mileage cars, and great shape.

It's kinda interesting that I paid approx $33k ttl for the 07 RX8, and by the tine I put BHR ign coils and fuel pump, and Bilstein B12 kit the price became what I paid for 14 X1 s28i.......$35k.

X1 s28i only needed some front 12mm spacers to make the handling work for me.

Here's a funny for ya!

"Sometimes I feel like some torque, sometimes I don't."

"X1 has torque......RX8 DON'T!"

Last edited by 0w40X1; 12-29-2019 at 03:05 AM.
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2020, 08:14 AM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Welp.. sorry to 'necro' my own thread but I have updates.

Very impressed by others that have had good luck with things, that's great. Typical Yukoner is dogging on me as usual I see
- December was busy for me and family
- I did take it to an authorized BMW dealer as well
- $6K is more than most maintenance within 4 months on other cars
- sorry if you think I'm 'unreasonable' about it.

After complaining to the dealer, they took it back to repair the timing chain. They are splitting the cost with me, so my part is $2000.

I was going to come back to this forum to see if anyone thought that keeping it after this incident might be a good idea. Looking forward to any *helpful* replies.
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  #31  
Old 01-30-2020, 08:37 AM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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I think you did really well only paying $2000 for new chains out of warranty. Now you have almost nothing to worry about (knock on wood) that could toast the car.

As an aside, was there any lead up indications of this failure coming before the check engine light came on? It would be helpful for others to know what to look for and be pre emptive and fix before the chain breaks and destroys the engine.

Good Luck
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  #32  
Old 01-30-2020, 08:48 AM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Thanks for the good luck wish

No, there was nothing. I had tried listening to the engine while idling with the hood up. There were recordings somewhere of what the timing chain 'going out' would sound like. However, I freely admit I am not 'a car guy' but more than a little interested in learning. When talking with a mechanic that works on BMWs (post-purchase inspection within return period from dealer) he wasn't even aware of the timing chain thing being an issue so I chalked it up to me just fretting for no reason. I only learned of the issue myself when getting on here to find out about the engine auto start/stop.

So, yea, it happened without warning. Fortunately I was driving less than 30mph on a residential street and was able to stop almost immediately.

It's my hope that the 'limp' mode the engine put itself in saved it somehow and as long as oil galleries are/were not clogged then the engine and turbos would still be ok. I also don't mind saying that I eye it with caution now and got me wondering if I naively made a mistake in buying.
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  #33  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:45 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
Typical Yukoner is dogging on me as usual I see
Yeah, because your expectations were unreasonable and you're the exact example of what we see on these forums all the time, someone buying a BMW who doesn't understand they own a luxury vehicle and the costs associated with that. If you didn't have the $6K to fix the vehicle, then I don't know if you have any business owning the car. Therein lies the issue - used BMW buyers don't have the maintenance cash lying around.

Anyways, that said, I'm glad to hear the dealer agreed to split costs with you. That's good of them, and good to see that dealers can still be worked with in an amicable fashion As I said earlier on in this thread and many others, being pleasant and patient goes a long way most of the time.

As for whether you should keep the vehicle - I'm going to say no, I think you should sell it. I say that because your next failure is going to end up in the same scenario, you posting a thread about how much this car sucks. You're going to have a $2K turbo failure. You're going to have a $500.00 ignition system overhaul. You're going to have a $1K valve cover gasket failure. These things happen. These things are known BMW maintenance points. Unless you're prepared for those costs (and willing to part with your money for those costs), I wouldn't suggest you keep the car. Just to be clear - I'm not trying to be a jerk to you here. I'm just giving you my honest advice based on what you've experienced thus far and your attitude towards it. I don't think you're going to be happy with this vehicle long term, unless you resign yourself to what realistic maintenance is going to cost you.
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  #34  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:51 AM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
I don't think you're going to be happy with this vehicle long term, unless you resign yourself to what realistic maintenance is going to cost you.
I am wondering about that too. Very good things to think about. Thank you for responding.
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  #35  
Old 01-31-2020, 09:22 AM
kevman2 kevman2 is offline
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155k still runs like new. Oil changes, brake pads at 100k, on 3rd set of tires. Couple of air filters. Thats it. Best car I ever owned.

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  #36  
Old 01-31-2020, 09:47 AM
JimH46 JimH46 is offline
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I would keep it, at least for a couple of years. As has been noted, the major potential issue with the engine is now resolved. I've had mine since new in 2013 and it has been trouble free, only requiring normal maintenance.
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  #37  
Old 01-31-2020, 05:02 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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I don't disagree that the one single "major" concern with this engine has now been dealt with. However, that doesn't mean you can't ignore maintenance. You're going to need to do things like:

- Coolant flush
- Brake fluid flush
- Engine oil changes
- Power steering fluid flush
- Differential fluid change
- Transfer case fluid change
- Transmission fluid change

Now, some of these aren't necessarily required within the next 3 months or anything like that, but they do need to be done. Ignoring maintenance is a quick way to cause medium to long term issues with the vehicle.
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  #38  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:40 PM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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As an update and close this 'chapter', I will report that the car is back in my possession. Drove it back from Chicago to Indy. My part was $2000, on a $5000 repair thanks to the recency of my purchase from the dealer and their willingness to step up and help. They had picked it up from me at the start of the year. Since they were helping me out I wasn't concerned about the amount of time it took. End result was it got done.

What they did:

Removed and replaced timing chain and guides etc.. Removed and replaced with new the valve cover gasket, crankshaft oil seal, engine oil cooler seal, vacuum pump seal, power steering drive belt, alternator drive belt. Obviously an oil change with that too. Their work is warrantied for parts and labor for a year they told me. So that's nice to have in mind as well.

With all that work done and the good drive home I'm looking to get the transmission drain/fill done and then see about the other maintenance things - things I was planning to do anyway before the timing chain failure. I was never expecting maintenance free, just hoping it wouldn't have had such a failure so soon after purchase. The timing chain thing being an issue was not known to me at purchase time so there was no way I could 'prevent it'. I'll likely keep it as a daily driver going forward and just try and show it some love.

Thank you for all the comments and help. It isn't possible to 'like' people's posts on here, so I wanted to say that I appreciate the thoughts.

Last edited by dooferorg; 02-15-2020 at 09:58 PM. Reason: thanks
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  #39  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:52 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
With all that work done and the good drive home I'm looking to get the transmission drain/fill done
I'm doing this on my X1 this year. It's a damn expensive item, ~$1,500.00 USD at the dealer. That's about ~$600.00 USD more than an E90. The reason, I'm told, is the fluid is much more expensive (different fluid as the transmission isn't the same as the E9x). Sucks, but you'll realistically only do it once or twice in the lifetime of the vehicle.
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  #40  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:13 PM
dooferorg dooferorg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
I'm doing this on my X1 this year. It's a damn expensive item, ~$1,500.00 USD at the dealer. That's about ~$600.00 USD more than an E90. The reason, I'm told, is the fluid is much more expensive (different fluid as the transmission isn't the same as the E9x). Sucks, but you'll realistically only do it once or twice in the lifetime of the vehicle.
Interestingly a local shop that specializes in BMWs and Mercedes told me it'd be $375 ($210 for the fluid) using the ZF fluid like the stuff found here: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/lif...r-s67109031201

Just wanted to mention it.
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  #41  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:37 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by dooferorg View Post
Interestingly a local shop that specializes in BMWs and Mercedes told me it'd be $375 ($210 for the fluid) using the ZF fluid like the stuff found here: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/lif...r-s67109031201

Just wanted to mention it.
I'm guessing it's the filter. FCP is showing me $300.00 + $120.00 shipping for the non-Genuine kit. So I'm betting at least double that price for the Genuine kit
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  #42  
Old 04-06-2020, 07:59 AM
slickman slickman is offline
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I enjoyed reading this post, all good information and guidance. I'm on my third BMW, 135i, 335i and now a X1 35i. All cars are expensive for repairs and BMW is no different, just a bit more money due to the type of car it is. Its a BMW, high class, luxury and sporty. I have 61,000 on my X1 and I know at some point there's going to be a expensive repair. But that's just the way it is. If you purchase a car like this you need to be aware cost are going to be higher than a Chevy Cruze.

I have a question concerning the timing chain, is this something that needs be on the RR list? And at what milage if So?
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Last edited by slickman; 04-06-2020 at 08:02 AM.
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  #43  
Old 04-06-2020, 08:17 AM
JimH46 JimH46 is offline
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I have a question concerning the timing chain, is this something that needs be on the RR list? And at what milage if So?
The timing chain guide issue is for the 4 cylinder N20 engine. You have the 35i with the 6 cylinder.
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  #44  
Old 04-06-2020, 08:28 AM
slickman slickman is offline
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Originally Posted by JimH46 View Post
The timing chain guide issue is for the 4 cylinder N20 engine. You have the 35i with the 6 cylinder.
Thanks, my screw up. Just a note, I love BMW's.
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  #45  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:09 PM
Bahnburner Bahnburner is offline
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I recently bought a 2013 X1 (sdrive28i) and I have also been reading this thread with some interest. The previous owner took excellent care of the X1 and was able to provide me with all service records for the last 7 years when I bought it. I have no expectations that this will be a flawless car, and it will see moderate duty (less than 10k miles per year) so I'm hoping to space out the major maintenances as they arise.

But I have the worst luck with choosing vehicles manufactured with flawed timing chain guides. Buying a used German vehicle, I was keen to selecting BMW over Audi or VW because the former generally have timing chains while the latter two mostly rely on timing belts. The last thing I wanted to buy was a car with 100k miles due for a timing belt and water pump repair. But then I choose a BMW with an N20 engine and it's documented timing chain guide issues.

My 2013 Challenger (5.7L) was also built with a flimsy plastic timing chain guide that had to be replaced under recall or risk a timing chain failure. I thought I was past that adventure until my recent BMW purchase last month. I contacted a local shop specializing in German cars and asked about the known timing chain guide issue, but the shop manager told me that he had not heard about it.

FWIW, here are a couple of articles detailing the N20 timing chain guide flaw. It might be helpful for anyone trying to explain the issue to their service center or independent mechanic.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...-chain-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...rranty-claims/

Last edited by Bahnburner; 04-07-2020 at 11:10 PM.
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  #46  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:44 PM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahnburner View Post

FWIW, here are a couple of articles detailing the N20 timing chain guide flaw. It might be helpful for anyone trying to explain the issue to their service center or independent mechanic.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...-chain-defect/

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-...rranty-claims/
Wow I'm surprised they actually released the shocking amount of plaintiffs in the class action suit.

"The consolidated BMW engine defect class action includes allegations from 21 vehicle owners who filed their own individual BMW class action lawsuits prior to consolidation."

And that some of them were dismissed due to not having grounds to sue which leaves somewhere less than 21 obviously. The way people talk about this you would thousands of people were involved.
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  #47  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:21 AM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Originally Posted by wvadam View Post
And that some of them were dismissed due to not having grounds to sue which leaves somewhere less than 21 obviously. The way people talk about this you would thousands of people were involved.
The thing is, the probability of this defect causing you complete engine failure is, actually very low. I mean, we're talking, 125K vehicles sold ? Even if 1,250 experienced the issue, that's 1%..... It's the same like the E9x and the HVAC wiring that can melt and cause a fire. The chances of that happening were astronomically low (I remember seeing somewhere that it was somewhere around 0.05%).

That being said, when YOU are the unlucky person to experience the issue, YOU become hyper sensitive to it and want to scream at the top of your lungs (I'm not saying that's wrong to want to do).

So put into context, the N20 timing chain guide "problem" is not THAT common. But yes, it does happen and yes, it is a known issue.
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  #48  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:47 AM
Bahnburner Bahnburner is offline
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Timing chain failures can shred your engine, but the damage can be even greater for an interference engine when the valves briefly push into the cylinder chamber on the piston's downstroke. Once the timing chain breaks, the valves are left stuck in the "open" position in the cylinder where they are instantaneously damaged when struck by the piston on the upstroke. My Challenger Hemi is an interference engine, and it's beyond my reasoning why Dodge chose to implement a multi-displacement system (MDS) where 4 pistons go into sleep mode at cruising speeds and then "wakes up" when acceleration is applied. This was the first feature I disabled through my tuner.

Does any one know if the N20 engine is an interference engine?

I also saved two more informative links with photos showing the broken timing chain guide, what to listen for (video) and the BMW TSB's.

https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/08/07...g-chain-issue/

https://bmwtechnician.com/2017/08/02...-bmw-bulletin/
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  #49  
Old 04-09-2020, 09:50 AM
wvadam wvadam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
The thing is, the probability of this defect causing you complete engine failure is, actually very low. I mean, we're talking, 125K vehicles sold ? Even if 1,250 experienced the issue, that's 1%..... It's the same like the E9x and the HVAC wiring that can melt and cause a fire. The chances of that happening were astronomically low (I remember seeing somewhere that it was somewhere around 0.05%).

That being said, when YOU are the unlucky person to experience the issue, YOU become hyper sensitive to it and want to scream at the top of your lungs (I'm not saying that's wrong to want to do).

So put into context, the N20 timing chain guide "problem" is not THAT common. But yes, it does happen and yes, it is a known issue.
Hey Yukoner. I know we are beating a dead horse here with this issue that keeps popping up but I am also noticing a common denominator in a lot of these posts. Saddly, a l of of people just bought the car recently (second hand obviously) and in short order the engine goes. I say sadly because it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people one day notice a sound coming from the engine that wasn't there before or a chain whine and sell the vehicle in quick order rather than replace the chain and guides. So a perhaps 2k problem gets handed off to an unsuspecting person who then has a 20k (the highest quoted figure I've seen) engine failure and they are screwed and mad as hell rightfully so. I mean if you don't have service records how do you even know if the previous owner changed the oil. I have met a few people in real life, not online, who said they never ever changed their vehicles oil but they only keep the car 4 years and I guess they just figure who cares as long as it doesn't break while I own it. This all plays into the lower resale value because you have no idea what you are getting.
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  #50  
Old 04-09-2020, 11:04 AM
Bahnburner Bahnburner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvadam View Post
I mean if you don't have service records how do you even know if the previous owner changed the oil. I have met a few people in real life, not online, who said they never ever changed their vehicles oil but they only keep the car 4 years and I guess they just figure who cares as long as it doesn't break while I own it. This all plays into the lower resale value because you have no idea what you are getting.
I've purchased 2 used vehicles over the past 6 years (including my recently purchased X1) where the previous owner was able to supply full service records. If they have them and are willing to part with them, a smart seller will mention it in their ad.

However...

I bought a 2002 Subaru more than 5 years ago and the seller (original owner) had a phonebook-sized binder with all of his service records from day 1. I checked the Outback's PCM with an inexpensive OBDII dongle and an Android app to check for engine codes. Found none and bought the car after a sound test drive. Two weeks later, a CEL comes on for a leaking #4 cylinder which my mechanic later confirmed.

Lesson learned. Although I checked for engine codes, I didn't know enough at the time to check if all of the 7 emissions monitors were started. Some sellers with just enough tech-savvy will disconnect the battery for an hour or so to turn off the CEL, or they will use an OBDII tool to clear the CEL and stored engine error codes. However, either action does not reset the emissions monitors which restart automatically over a period of time and after some variable distance driving. If even one emissions monitor is off it's a strong indication that the seller cleared the CEL. It's something to check for if you're willing to go that extra step.

Fortunately I was able to drive the Subaru as my DD for the next 5 years without a problem. This year it's just not worth dropping $1000 to do all of the necessary emissions work to get it to pass. Hence my purchase of the X1 a few weeks ago.

Last edited by Bahnburner; 04-09-2020 at 02:52 PM.
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