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  #1  
Old 01-11-2020, 08:22 PM
Bigkev77 Bigkev77 is offline
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DPF codes 0480 & 0481

Hi All,

So I've just started getting error codes 0480 & 0481 popping up and when I clear them and force a regen it starts and then stops. My soot level starts at 74.85, goes down to 59, and then climbs back to 74.85 quickly (usually within a couple of minutes).

I had just spent $6k half a year ago to get the DPF cleaned and replaced injectors, water pump and thermostat as well as had cooling system flush and oil changed to get rid of this problem but obviously there's some other underlying issue. It may be that 5 of my glow plugs aren't working but i have read on here that this only affects cold starts.

Going off this forum, they say that once the 0481 code pops up, it locks out the regeneration.

Could anyone tell me if this is correct? or if there is a way to bypass the lockout? or if there is anything I can do to

I have Carly adapter and app.

Please help as I am at my wits end, the car owes me $26k and is only worth $12k!!!! and I can't afford to put any more money into it
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2020, 04:07 AM
stevieg58 stevieg58 is offline
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What do you mean about 5 glowplugs not working? Do you mean you've got codes for that as well as the dpf codes? If so, I believe they (or the glow plug module) are/is your likely culprit. My understanding is that the glow plugs are activated during regeneration to get the exhaust temperature high enough for a complete regeneration. Without all functioning glow plugs my understanding is that the regeneration doesn't work properly. In the old days of diesel engines glow plugs were only used for cold start, but my understanding is that in modern diesels they are also used for regeneration. So don't ignore a glow plug/glow plug module malfunction.
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Old 01-12-2020, 04:10 AM
stevieg58 stevieg58 is offline
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Here's a YouTube video on the issue:



Hope that helps.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:15 AM
n1das n1das is offline
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The GPs are used for a cold start and afterglow following a cold start until the engine is up to temp. They aren't used for regens. Running under temp for a long time due to a failed thermostat will lead to early GP failures.

What is the coolant temperature at after warmup and driving for a few miles? The thermostat is designed for 88C and the temperature is normally around 89-91C where it is measured.



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Last edited by n1das; 01-12-2020 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:03 AM
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Two observations on that video teaser. BMW low mass glow plugs are properly lit (lighted) for 3.5 seconds MAXIMUM and then allowed to cool. Without adequate air cooling the MAXIMUM applied voltage should be 7 VDC or less.

During normal operation the glow plugs might flash (maximum 3.5 seconds) a half-dozen times on a normal start up. Only at temperature less than -30C does the glow plugs flash last 3.5 seconds. At 0C the flash is only 1.1 seconds, and at more than +30C (86F) the glow plugs do not come on at all.

I have found no information on the glow plugs energized time for Partial Load Heating.
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Old 01-12-2020, 12:30 PM
robinasu robinasu is offline
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Maybe inject 1/2 a can of DPF foam cleaner through the high pressure sensor port and let it sit, then burn it out and repeat? It's key to get the chemical on top of the DPF media so it can flow down and soak the DPF. If you inject below the DPF you won't do anything. The foamy stuff is kind of expensive though. There are also some cost effective DPF cleaner liquids on the market used in trucking. You can find some on Amazon. I remember seeing a BMW factory procedure that did just this. There is even a BMW part number for the DPF cleaner, which is just some BMW rebranded DPF cleaner.

Unless your previous DPF clean included removing the DPF and pressure washing it, they probably did what I explained, above. I can see how it could take multiple chemical applications to burn off a plugged up DPF. The fluid needs to penetrate into the clogged passages, then sufficient heat applied to burn off the soot/carbon. If some of the passages are really clogged, hot exhaust cannot circulate and it has to burn off the ends of the clogged channels like a candle.

I don't think there is anything keeping the DPF from being cleaned and reused except for physical access for cleaning. The technology in the X5 DPF is just like in trucking, except in trucking, the DPF is designed to be easily removed, replaced, or cleaned. There are a videos showing truck DPFs cleaned with pressure washers. With the X5d, it's not practical to remove the DPF, so we are left with chemical cleaning.

I might try the above and give the chemicals plenty of time to soak in before regeneration. I doubt the shop had the time to let it soak and penetrate or perform multiple applications.

Just my 2 cents.. and I haven't had to do this yet, so keep that in mind - just ideas there.

Last edited by robinasu; 01-12-2020 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:50 AM
stevieg58 stevieg58 is offline
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To directly answer Bigkev77, I have heard of one way to bypass a lockout of regeneration. Check out post #26 on this link. LPcapital says, "The other issue was the overfilled DPF. When the differential pressure across the DPF is above a certain level a code is stored in the DDE. When that code is stored the DPF will not regenerate neither automatically nor by forcing the regeneration using the DIS (or other similar software). After some research we found someone else having a similar issue and he described a very ingenious way to fool the DDE in thinking the differential pressure is fine: basically you need a controlled leak. We replaced the hose from the DPF to the differential pressure sensor with one about 2 feet long. Using BMWhat we monitored differential pressure and cut a hole in the hose until the differential pressure at idle was about 5mbar (from 35 that it would have been).

We took it out for a ride and the DPF regenerated and from that moment on it has been regenerating automatically ever since."

So you could try the method above - hope that works.

Now I apologize in advance for taking the post down a tangential discussion of glow plugs and dpf. I could be totally wrong, but I still wouldn't disregard the potential for glow plugs to be at least part of the problem.

N1das - I think I might have to disagree with you. I've learned a lot from your posts, so I know that you know a lot about these cars. I'm just a hobbyist, so I could be wrong. But I have found glow plug information pages from Denso (link is here), NGK (link is here), Bosch (link is here), and pico technology (link is here). Interesting reading. They all state that glow plugs are used as an aid in active regeneration of the dpf. Of course, I'm sure every car manufacturer has a different algorithm that may rely more or less (or possibly not at all?) on glow plug activation for active regeneration during short/low load driving conditions. By reading other posts it seems that there may be a minimum number of glow plug failures before dpf regeneration is hampered (i.e. - only one bad glow plug out of 8 and regen can still occur, but have 5 out 6 glow plugs bad and regen cannot occur). This link is an example of just such a discussion. I also found particularly interesting post #13 by Aqua Puttana where he quotes from a posting on diesel dpf problems (link is here). The point is made that multiple factors (EGR valve, glow plugs, thermostat, coolant temp sensor, Lambda sensor failure, and/or DPF pressure/back pressure sensors) can cause dpf problems. Things can also snowball - one starts with a faulty thermostat, which leads to low engine temps, then the engine computer keeps the glow plugs activated to try to keep up the engine temp, which leads to glow plug burnout, which leads to inadequate active dpf regeneration, which leads to a clogged dpf, which leads to a high dpf pressure signal, which blocks further regeneration. A nasty downward spiral.

But back to Bigkev77 - you never answered my question about whether or not you actually have glow plug malfunction codes. I assume you must, but it was never stated. Any other codes - perhaps EGR valve? As noted above many things can contribute to dpf regeneration failure. Hope the idea of reducing DPF backpressure to allow a regen to occur helps. You noted that you recently had your thermostat replaced. Are your temps in the 88 degree C range?

Anyway, hope that helps.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:24 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is online now
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No. The document BMW - Diesel Technology - May2012 clearly states the conditions that will cause glow plug heating.

The document used to be in the E70 Knowledge Base LPCapital Google Drive file (may still be but not accessible my me. Thank goodness I DL'd most of those files).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpcapital View Post
I've shared these in the past, but can't find the thread to bump it, so here's another one. May help the new comers:

E70 Training Material: https://drive.google.com/folderview?...&usp=drive_web
-> the most fascinating doc is the 13 pages paper on the glovebox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A glovebox guys.....

My collection of mostly diesel specific recalls: https://drive.google.com/folderview?...&usp=drive_web
-> I never scanned the most recent one about the heater element
-> here's the most recent bulletin SI B 11 06 13 regarding the addition of a bracket under the EGR valve to prevent cracking of the flex joint on the EGR cooler

My collection of training material I've assembled over my years of ownership: https://drive.google.com/folderview?...&usp=drive_web
-> Makes it a good read for those coast to coast flights...

Enjoy!!!! Even if you may not be interested in tinkering with the car, I'm one of those convinced that knowledge is power, so it may help you understand if you're been bull****ted by a dishonest mechanic or not...
Quote:
404. That's an error.

The requested URL was not found on this server. That's all we know.
When Luca Paindelli retired from BF we lost a sterling resource. I am glad to have told him so and thanked him before he disappeared.
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(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

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Last edited by Doug Huffman; 01-13-2020 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:16 AM
stevieg58 stevieg58 is offline
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Agree that Luca (LPCapital) was a great source of knowledge and insight.

Anyway, I did find another link to the BMW Advanced Diesel Technology Workbook - the link is here.

I agree with Doug that the section on glow plug activation says nothing about turning on with active dpf regeneration. So (unless the workbook is incomplete) I am wrong. Sorry! Certainly all the other information from glow plug manufacturers and glow plug testing companies led me to believe that glow plug activation during active regeneration is at least common - though maybe not universal.

Any idea how the exhaust temperature is elevated to the appropriate temperature? Is it just by adding extra fuel? Would the fuel always burn? Maybe the fuel has to be injected in at a certain time in the combustion cycle?

Anyway, the conversation has taken a different turn from Bigkev77's initial question. I hope using LPCapital's old technique to allow a regeneration will help, and LP's advice will continue to be of value.

Last edited by stevieg58; 01-13-2020 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:23 AM
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DPF temperature is raised by additional late injections and throttling the throttle valve.
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:32 AM
robinasu robinasu is offline
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Post Injection

From what I read, the injectors fire on the upward piston exhaust stroke so that raw fuel is ejected out the exhaust valves and into the exhaust system. I would think you want the fuel to be somewhat cool so it reaches the DPF and coats any soot/carbon before it vaporizes. Most of these DPF chemicals all seem to want you to coat the surface to be cleaned, then run the engine hot so the deposits are "burned" off. Even Seafoam advises this. They all seem to work by lowering the ignition temperature of the carbon/soot or maybe the chemical vaporization "steam cleans" the saturated surfaces. Not sure.

If you can find a big enough access port maybe you can rod out the DPF with a rifle brush, then chemical clean. Sounds tedious, though.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:34 AM
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That is not how the DPF is constructed. DPF chemicals are snake oil.
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:46 AM
robinasu robinasu is offline
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Yeah, rodding was a bad idea

Here is an interesting link:

https://blog.motoringassist.com/car-...ulate-filters/

I'm not convinced the DPF chemicals are snake oil, perhaps of limited effectiveness.

For sure use low SAPS oil, though.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:53 AM
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So, where are you gonna run your bottle / rifle brush?
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:03 AM
robinasu robinasu is offline
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Based on the the pictures I posted, it would be pretty hard/impossible. I guess if one was desperate and had the DPF uninstalled it could be possible- looks like the channels are 2mm x 2mm or abouts.

A steam clean might work if you can focus the steam effectively down the channels- probably want to test on some other carbon build up and be careful of downstream equipment.

A cautionary link: https://blog.motoringassist.com/car-...ve-overdosing/
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:34 AM
Bigkev77 Bigkev77 is offline
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Thanks for the input guys.

When I first had the DPF issue sorted, I got it back with error codes for 3 GP's. I checked that regens were working and they were, then about 2 months later it was showing codes for 5 GP's however the regens were still working. Haven't had any control messages on the main screen up until last week, which I then checked my DPF data and it was showing soot level at the 75 mark. So I cleared the faults went for a 30 minute drive and forced a regen which initially brought the soot level down to the 50 mark but then climbed back up to 75 just as quick which leads me to believe something (programming) is stopping the regen.

I don't know what the exhaust temp is but I will check on my next forced regen run. I haven't done it yet as I am too scared to take it out and do more damage. I am thinking about cutting my losses and trading it in and letting it be a dealers problem. Hence I probably won't try the bypass as I don't have the expertise or energy anymore.

Background info:
I changed my oil on the 26/12/201 with Penrite Enviro+ full synthetic C4 5w30 diesel oil.
Have been getting air flow sensor error but when I check Carly the sensor rises when throttle engaged so I assume that it is functioning.
Have been getting the 0481 dpf code since July last year but the regens still worked up unit now.
Have only just got the 0480 dpi code pop up now.
Air con has lost power and is not as cold, would this have anything to do with this DPF issue? Thinking back the air con did this just before the last DPF failure. Thoughts?

Am I right to assume that the GP's don't have anything to do with regens?
Anyone had any experience on what would stop a regen in my circumstance?
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:36 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigkev77 View Post


Have been getting air flow sensor error but when I check Carly the sensor rises when throttle engaged so I assume that it is functioning.
This seems to assume that a MAF is a digital device: good or bad...on or off.

It is not, it generates a signal promotional to airflow. If it is fouled it may be delivering an erroneous signal. We dont know precisely how the DDE detects and declares the sensor bad, but assuming if there is any changing signal it must be good is not well grounded.

And it may not be the sensor, might be a leak near the sensor, for example.

just fyi
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:21 PM
apw2607 apw2607 is offline
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Heres the service plan for 480A and 481A.

Procedure 1 describes some visual inspection that can be done. Procedure 2, discusses looking at the other parameters to better understand why DDE will not perfom a regen even when 480A and 481A are momentarily cleared.

Personally, I think cleaning the DPF is a waste of time with chemicals too. Maybe the forced air approach, but at that point you have to remove the thing anyway. Might as well just stick a new one on there. $3850 for ~200,000 miles isn't bad - right !

Last edited by apw2607; 01-15-2020 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:18 PM
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Someone asked above how exhaust temperature is raised for periodic regeneration.

From the kindly provided SIB; The DDE initiates the regeneration process by decreasing incoming air by the throttle valve, and one or two post injections are executed. This heats the exhaust-gas temperature to approx. 600 C. When the exhaust temp reaches this point:
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Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:35 AM
Bigkev77 Bigkev77 is offline
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Thanks guys.

So my understanding of this service plan is that I could still force a regeneration if I do the following:

"To set FCs 480A or 481A to "currently not present" the following driving conditions need to be carried out.
Drive the vehicle for approx. 45 minutes at a constant speed of above approx. 55 mph. 30 minutes for continuous regeneration
15 minutes for periodic regeneration
In addition, switch on electrical consumers, so that the exhaust-gas temperature remains between 280-350 C."

??
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:31 AM
stevieg58 stevieg58 is offline
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Bigkev77 - Lots of details/complexities in this system, so one needs to be very careful. Your last post merely refers to the "driving conditions" that need to be carried out. I suspect that if you have other faults in the system (e.g., a non-functioning anti-shudder/throttle valve, egr valve, swirl flaps, etc) then you won't get a regen even if you accomplish the aforementioned driving conditions. So it appears to me the system has to be functioning correctly and the driving conditions met. Maybe you already understood that, sorry if it seems like nit picking.

And then there is the issue of whether or not an already clogged dpf with high dpf pressure sensor readings can prevent an active regen from occurring. It seems an active regen will not occur in this situation - I think this is what is meant by the sentence "Periodic regeneration can only be triggered via the ISTA service functions, if fault codes 480A and 481A are "not present"." in the SIB. Reading the SIB seems to indicate that in this situation only ISTA/D can initiate a regen. This is somewhat contrary to the posting by LPCapital referred to earlier where he said he was unable to initiate a regen with DIS (different programs I know, hence my statement that it is "somewhat" contrary). Anyway, if you don't have ISTA/D then the next option is the one discussed by LP Capital - put a hole in a sacrificial hose on the dpf pressure sensor such that a low dpf pressure is obtained. Then, as noted in the SIB: "When the exhaust-gas pressure drops, the fault codes 480A and 481A receive the status "currently not present".
As soon as the fault codes receive the status 480A and 481A "currently not present", automatic, periodic regeneration can take place."

Clear as mud, right?

Last edited by stevieg58; 01-17-2020 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:23 PM
Badsmerf Badsmerf is offline
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I had this code, problem was the throttle valve. Even trying to force a regen was pointless until the throttle valve was fixed. The air flow errors you're dismissing could be the reason it wont regenerate. I don't have any experience with Carly, but ISTA+ has been a wallet-saver for me.
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