EMP Stewart water pump RIP after 8,325 miles - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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  #1  
Old 03-17-2017, 09:50 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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EMP Stewart water pump RIP after 8,325 miles

Less than three years ago I did a complete cooling system refresh on my 02 330cic. Only 55865 mikes then so it was an OCD preventive refresh including pump, thermostat, tank, hoses, radiator, temp sensor, cap. Did it based on age (12 years back then) and the fact that I usually drive the car from Reno to Bay Area and back all summer. It's 240 miles going up to 8000 feet down to sea level. Don't want cooling system blow out on that drive. I went top end and bought the Stewart pump thinking I'd never have to worry about pump failure.

Fast forward to last October while having brake fluid flushed at Indy shop, and they tell me water pump is leaking. Whuuuuutttt???? Sure enough, there's coolant splatter in various places.

We were busy selling a house and moving belongings back then so I put the car away for the winter in an off site rented garage and bailed it out earlier this week. Today I had a closer look.

Took air box and fan out, and coolant everywhere!!! I took the pump off and it looks like it's coming from weep hole. Pump lasted from 58865 to 64190 miles, or 8325. So much for not having to worry about pump failure.

I bought the pump from OEMBimmerParts. Called them this morning, talked to Max, ordered replacement pump and I'll send old pump back at which point I should get a refund. I don't expect it will be a problem, but disappointed about the failure given the fact it's a $200 water pump! Hoping the new pump is more durable.

Pictures:


Evidence of coolant splatter.



Fan removed.


Uh oh. That's more coolant than I thought.


Pulley removed.


Trying for shot from underneath.


Take 2


64k mikes.


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Current:
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2007 650i - 6 speed
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Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions

Last edited by FredoinSF; 03-17-2017 at 10:03 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2017, 10:18 PM
cvx5832 cvx5832 is offline
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That really sucks. I'm thinking there was a bad batch (I also have one, great), because about a year or so ago there were some that posted the same failure with the same low miles on E46Fanatics. In those discussions we also had those that have had tens of thousands on their Stewart pumps report no issue at all, telling me they have the potential to go the distance but manufacturing tolerances may be the issue.

I have 38k on mine. I inspected it recently and looks to be ok. I have a fan clutch hanging off mine so I don't know how that will affect things eventually. If it was a bad batch then hopefully the replacement Stewart you get today will be the last water pump your car will ever have!
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2017, 12:04 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Thanks for the info. Didn't know there had been failures of late. Definitely a manufacturing issue in my case, likely same with others. Discussion with Max was short and sweet, possibly because it's not uncommon. Mine's a stick so no fan attached to the pump.

Hoping they have resolved the problem, I don't want to do this so often that I can do a water pump swap in 10 minutes.


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__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2017, 01:49 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Project is snow balling. The pump came in last week but I was not around to finish the job so the car is still torn down. As time was elapsing, I got to thinking that while some of the parts are out of the way, I should look into tackling a VANOS seals job, the reason being that my car is still on its originals (15 years and 64k miles) and it's rather sluggish off the line which is a symptom of VANOS seals gone bad. Then I thought that while I'm there, I might as well do the OFHG which would take care of the common leaks so I ordered a OFHG kit. The place I ordered from doesn't carry the VANOS seals so I went to German Auto Solutions to order those, and could not resist ordering the DISA rebuild kit before checking out.

So here I am. My unplanned water pump project turned into:
- Water pump
- VANOS seals
- Valve cover gasket
- OFHG
- DISA upgrade

Hoping I did not bite off more than I can chew. Going to take my time, follow the you tube videos that seem most detailed. I've never done anything quite this involved so I am a bit intimidated by this list. Any words of wisdom or awesome DIY tips? Anything else I should tackle "while I'm there"? Starting on tear down tonight, I have about a week before all the parts come in?
__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2017, 04:09 PM
sridario sridario is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
Anything else I should tackle "while I'm there"? Starting on tear down tonight, I have about a week before all the parts come in?
Since you'll have the valve cover off, it would a good time to change the spark plugs - NGK BKR6EQUP.

You could check the power steering reservoir for leaks and replace if needed.

If you were up north, the CVV system (and oil dipstick drain tube) would be another suggestion, but you have a big job ahead of you already, and it's not clear whether you'd need it at 64K miles in California. I'll let others comment on that one.
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Old 03-27-2017, 07:58 PM
chocopotamus chocopotamus is offline
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For the OFHG, I followed 50's kid advice and did not removed the power steering pump.
I did change the power steering reservoir and the two hoses supplying the reservoir while "in that neck of the woods."

You got this.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2017, 08:16 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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EMP Stewart water pump RIP after 8,325 miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridario View Post
Since you'll have the valve cover off, it would a good time to change the spark plugs - NGK BKR6EQUP.



You could check the power steering reservoir for leaks and replace if needed.



If you were up north, the CVV system (and oil dipstick drain tube) would be another suggestion, but you have a big job ahead of you already, and it's not clear whether you'd need it at 64K miles in California. I'll let others comment on that one.


Good suggestions, thank you. The spark plugs were done at 60k miles, belts when I did the cooling refresh so I'm good on that.

I thought about CVV but like you mention it is a fair weather car and only driven in the summer to boot. I am going to wait until German auto solutions has their CVV solution and evaluate the CVV then.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chocopotamus View Post
For the OFHG, I followed 50's kid advice and did not removed the power steering pump.

I did change the power steering reservoir and the two hoses supplying the reservoir while "in that neck of the woods."



You got this.


Thanks for the tip. I watched his VANOS video and it's really well done. I haven't seen the OFHG one yet but if it's as good then it should simplify things greatly.



What the garage looked like tonight. Oil change on the X5 and we know what's happening to the 330...





Cheers!
__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions

Last edited by FredoinSF; 03-27-2017 at 08:19 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-27-2017, 09:39 PM
cvx5832 cvx5832 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredoinSF View Post
Project is snow balling. The pump came in last week but I was not around to finish the job so the car is still torn down. As time was elapsing, I got to thinking that while some of the parts are out of the way, I should look into tackling a VANOS seals job, the reason being that my car is still on its originals (15 years and 64k miles) and it's rather sluggish off the line which is a symptom of VANOS seals gone bad. Then I thought that while I'm there, I might as well do the OFHG which would take care of the common leaks so I ordered a OFHG kit. The place I ordered from doesn't carry the VANOS seals so I went to German Auto Solutions to order those, and could not resist ordering the DISA rebuild kit before checking out.

So here I am. My unplanned water pump project turned into:
- Water pump
- VANOS seals
- Valve cover gasket
- OFHG
- DISA upgrade

Hoping I did not bite off more than I can chew. Going to take my time, follow the you tube videos that seem most detailed. I've never done anything quite this involved so I am a bit intimidated by this list. Any words of wisdom or awesome DIY tips? Anything else I should tackle "while I'm there"? Starting on tear down tonight, I have about a week before all the parts come in?
And down the rabbit hole we go! Haha

You'll be fine. I don't think I can add any more value to what's already posted out there on the DIY's and associated discussions. I would probably add the vanos oil hose since everything will be out already, and don't forget the crush washers. That hose will leak at some point and now is the easiest time to do it.

Great you're tackling the vanos even without the overt symptoms that the M52TU engines get with bad seals. When the seals are totally collapsed the pistons themselves make contact with the walls and scar it.

Vanos upside down in the photo. Gravity will cause only one side to scar. Eventually new seals won't do you any good I imagine.

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  #9  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:12 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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EMP Stewart water pump RIP after 8,325 miles

Epilogue on the water pump is I had a refund from OEMBimmerParts the day after defective one was received. Great service.

I started on the VANOS job today as I had a little time this evening. Valve cover is off and after watching every video I could find on VCG and VANOS DIYs, mine looks squeaky clean. I feel vindicated for my frequent oil changes.







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I'm going to start updating my France move thread instead of this. I'm now definitely shipping the car there this summer. The car will be kept at my parents' until I retire and move back there; the reason for doing all the preventive gasket replacement is so my Dad doesn't have to deal with it.
__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions

Last edited by FredoinSF; 03-29-2017 at 08:28 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2017, 08:53 PM
cvx5832 cvx5832 is offline
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^ Clean engine. What oil? I've seen similar results with users of Mobil 1, myself included.
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  #11  
Old 03-29-2017, 09:00 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Mostly the BMW stuff. I was using liqui moly for a while. Never used Mobil1 on this car that I recall, although it's my go to oil for the X5 diesel.


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Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2017, 03:16 PM
Cardiac Cardiac is offline
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This story gives me the hereby-jeebies.Late last summer we were near Rockingham NC. The pump went and we limped in to the city snd ended up at an Advanced Auto Parts store. It was 4pm on a Saturday so there were no shops willing to take on the job. They had a mechanic friend come over and amazingly they had the pump, new belts in stock. Didn't pay attention to the brand, the mechanic did the R/R right there, I asked him how much he charged , he hummed and hawed and said 50 bucks. Reached in my pocket and gave him the $100 I had, the whole thing.labor, parts and all was less than $250. Now almost a year later, the 330 has spent the winter in the garage as usual, I started it up and drove it a few blocks, everything is OK.
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:21 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Reviving my own thread here.
After replacing the pump a little over a year ago, I ended up with crusted coolant and coolant splatter all over the front of the engine again. Same scenario as the last pump, less than 6k miles on it. Is it possible for the replacement one to have failed as well? I am wondering if that pump requires a heavier torque setting than the OEM pump. I can't recall what the BMW torque settings are but I used a torque wrench when I put the pump in last year. I also just recall that there was an o'ring to do the sealing, I don't recall a gasket. Should there be a gasket? I looked at a DYI on YouTube and no gasket for that one.

I took the fan, belts, and WP pulley off, cleaned the coolant mess from the front of the engine and the belly pan, tightened the screws another quarter turn, put everything back together and will be monitoring over the next week of around town driving. If it's leaking I think I'm just going to buy an OEM pump and cut my losses with the Stewart pumps.
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Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
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2007 650i - 6 speed
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Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2018, 09:26 PM
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BMW-North BMW-North is offline
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Almost every failure I've seen with the EMP pump was down to installation. I've had 2 in a couple of cars for 10 years + with no issues. (Both manual) Great thread on e46F about the install issue and pinching the o ring. The automatics also have a higher failure incidence but due to the viscous clutch fan shaft vibration transfer. Contact Stewart direct - they're very accommodating.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:11 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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What goes wrong during installation? There is an o ring which I lubed with coolant, I was wrenching corner to corner, used a torque wrench to fasten to OE specs.
What’s the magic trick?


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2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:13 AM
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BMW-North BMW-North is offline
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Here's my guess: The o-ring for the Stewart pump is fatter since the channel is wider. A little more care and lubricant is necessary when inserting into the block. If the o-ring "rolls" while installing it puts stress on the rubber. Lots of lubricant and a twisting back and forth is better than a direct push into the block which might cause the o-ring to roll - leaving it installed in a twisted unnatural state and under stress.

The following was emailed to me a few years back from Jeff Canull, GM at Stewart:

From 2006 through 2015 Stewart Performance has had a grand total 58 water pumps returned under the lifetime replacement warranty. That includes water pumps sold for all model BMW's. Of the 58 returned we replaced 22 that would not have qualified since it was evident that install issues were the cause of the failure.

Unfortunately he didn't elaborate on the "install issues".

This was posted by another user 01/04/2016 regarding his reply from Stewart when his was leaking under his WP after 30k (automatic) :

I called EMP Stewart and they said that about 2 years ago they changed them to a viton oring from the original nitrile/buna-n oring. They weren't sure why but they had experienced a few o-ring failures like mine and made the change.

Stewart sent him the new o-ring free.

Edit: I'm sure some have failed at the bearing - high mileage or automatics where the owner used the same old viscous clutch fan. Not specifically addressed to the OP but to anyone who is changing the water pump (Stewart or not) on an automatic I've posted this countless times in other forums:

The viscous clutch fan and water pump share a common shaft. Therefore the operation of one will affect the operation of the other. If the clutch fan bearing wears, then the clutch fan will wobble. The vibration of a wobbling fan will in turn cause the water pump bearing to wear prematurely and eventually fail also.

Similarly a worn water pump bearing can cause a clutch fan bearing to fail for the same reason, vibration being transmitted from one bearing to the other. When replacing a worn or damaged water pump, it is practice to replace both since either one with a worn bearing will affect the life of the other. That is why the fan clutch should be replaced when a water pump is replaced. It is also never good practice to use an imbalanced or broken fan blade as this will accelerate wearing of one or both bearings.


My suggestion is that you contact Stewart direct - buy the replacement and when they receive your failed one they will refund the purchase to your credit card.

Last edited by BMW-North; 09-23-2018 at 04:33 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-24-2018, 08:36 AM
meinbills meinbills is online now
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Wow. I was considering buying the Stewart pump about 1.5K miles ago but the cost factor was a bit much and plus the new pump I got had metal propellers so I decided against it. Also seeing how easy it is to replace the pump, I was willing to go another 100K miles (my car has 95K now) before replacing the pump again.
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