New to diesels need help with exhaust fluid problems 2009 X5 xdrive35D - Page 4 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)

X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 10-06-2016, 01:39 PM
ddy2fty ddy2fty is offline
Registered User
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 2011 X5 35d
After replacing both Nox sensors our x5 35d has been trouble free - driven about 800km's since the work was done. I can't get over how torquey it is pulling away on the highway.

Everything I was able to find online regarding the incorrect DEF message lead me to exactly what ard said - one of the Nox sensor's isn't reading the "correct" Nox levels post SCR and it is assuming an incorrect medium in the DEF tanks.
__________________
2011 X5 35d White
2011 ES 350 Slate
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #77  
Old 10-06-2016, 07:27 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills, California USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 21,201
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddy2fty View Post
Everything I was able to find online regarding the incorrect DEF message lead me to exactly what ard said - one of the Nox sensor's isn't reading the "correct" Nox levels post SCR and it is assuming an incorrect medium in the DEF tanks.
The other possibility is the DEF injector is very clogged- and once the DDE tells it 'send all you can', and the DDE doesnt see the NOX dropp, it declares 'bad fluid'.

BMW has test plans that are SUPPOSED to be able to differentiate..I think. I havent worked on this.

If all I had was the DEF issue, Id flush the system and try to clean the def injector. His issue seemed to involve running empty, failure to maintain fresh DEF. So that makes me lean that way. It is also cheaper than a new NOX sensor!

Transmission- whole different issue. Change fluid, pan and gasket and mechatronics sleeve. There are some known issues with rubber gaskets.. might find some info here: http://www.bmwlogicseven.com/?p=3738
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 10-07-2016, 01:35 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
Hi Guys,
Sorry for creating any confusion by quoting another poster.

Just got off the phone with BMW.
They said NOX sensor needs replacement and Transmission needs replacement.
My extended warranty caps at $5000.
NOX sensor is $1200 and Transmission is $8000 aprx.

I have the option of installing a used trans and no warranty.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #79  
Old 10-07-2016, 02:23 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills, California USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 21,201
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
You should get that to a transmission shop...BMW dealers do not service transmissions, even if it is a simple sleeve...they just replace the whole thing.

Find an automatic transmission shop. I cannot stress this enough- BMW and BMW trained mechanics view the trans as an un-serviceable assembly. I think you have a 6 speed? so a 6HP26 getrag. Call around, find someone familiar with that. I took a quick look, found these guys over the bridge: https://www.yelp.com/biz/coliseum-transmission-oakland (I assumed that SFO, the pennisnula and san rafael would be $$$$....oakland seemed more likely to have a long term shop and the right clientelle.)

I guess have them do the NOX sensor, as long as you have a warranty?
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 10-07-2016, 04:02 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
The warranty I have does not cover the NOX sensor.
The Marin BMW dealership says the sensor is $700. $600 at SF BMW.

Does anyone know a source for cheaper parts?

There is a local transmission shop that I've been working with who are very reputable.
I've already bought a good used trans anticipating it might need replacement.
My plan was to buy parts from Level 10, rebuild it myself then install it.

I might be able to get the warranty company to cover BMW to install my used transmission but with no warranty.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 10-07-2016, 04:12 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Reno NV & Healdsburg CA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,157
Mein Auto: 4 BMWs, 1 Mini, 1 Vespa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxisimo View Post
Hi Guys,
Sorry for creating any confusion by quoting another poster.

Just got off the phone with BMW.
They said NOX sensor needs replacement and Transmission needs replacement.
My extended warranty caps at $5000.
NOX sensor is $1200 and Transmission is $8000 aprx.

I have the option of installing a used trans and no warranty.
Is this from a dealer? BMW of SF?

Do yourself a favor and take the car someplace else. Assuming you're in the city and are not adverse to crossing bridges, I would go to Bavarian Professionals in Berkeley http://www.bavpros.com/ . Try to talk to either Nat or Michael as they probably have the most knowledge. They're not cheap but it will be cheaper than the dealer and they do fantastic work. Michael has / had an X5 diesel with highish miles so they at least have some diesel experience. I have taken my cars there for 16 years, although I am in the process of selling the house in Oakland and I have not found an independent I am enthused about in either Reno or Healdsburg / Santa Rosa (suggestions welcome...)
Another place in the East Bay that does decent work is Bay Bridge Motors http://www.baybridge-bimmers-minis.com/ . Jacques owns that place and he is a good guy. I know they can handle the transmission work, but no idea if they have any experience on diesel issues. I used them for the MINI and occasional light BMW maintenance items when I was penny pinching and not paying the BavPro rate...
If you're one of those San Francisco people who go into convulsions at the mere thought of missing the last SF exit on the Bay bridge, Phaedrus has a stellar reputation but I have zero experience with them. Based on word of mouth alone they would be my go to place in the city. https://www.phaedrusmd.com/
__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions

Last edited by FredoinSF; 10-07-2016 at 04:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 10-07-2016, 04:34 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
I'm not adverse about crossing bridges at all.
I'm in San Rafael and took it to the BMW dealership here.
I also checked in with the local shops. All of them are great and very helpful.
Interestingly enough, the only two shops out of six, who felt confident to diagnose the transmission issue based on the codes alone were BMW of San Francisco and Level 10. Both said replace transmission.
BMW of San Rafael diagnosed the bad transmission after I took it in for the DEF issue.
My main concern now is replacing the sensor.
Can I do it myself.
Will the fault correct itself after the sensor is replaced? Or does the computer need to be reset or cleared of the fault?
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 10-07-2016, 09:06 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area California
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,242
Mein Auto: X5 35d, MY2011 150,000 mi
Only cross linking here . . .

I found this thread very informative, thanks to all who contributed here . . . hopefully the issues raised will get sorted out.

My extended maintenance (won't recommend getting it) ended and I was planning to do the DEF refill myself, found a lot of good info, couple of contributors here gave me some good pointers . . . rather than hijack this post, I shared the suggestions I got in this thread . . .
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 10-13-2016, 01:05 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bay Area California
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,242
Mein Auto: X5 35d, MY2011 150,000 mi
I found this attachment last night . . . detailed description of E70's SCR system . . .

lschackmuth - is your fix still holding up good? How many miles?

Maxisimo - did your issue get sorted out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschackmuth View Post
Hi, I was just wondering if anyone else had gotten the 'incorrect exhaust fluid' warning. . . . said that the exhaust fluid was incorrect and now i have 178 miles before it won't start. If anyone knows what to do please help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lschackmuth View Post
My X5 is finally up and running. After two service departments, one NOx sensor, and a little over $800.00 it's gone 875 miles with no problems. . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxisimo View Post
. . . find threads pertaining to my issue which is the same as the OP's. Warning of wrong DEF. 200 miles before no-start (now down to 120 miles). . . . I am NOT a BMW mechanic. I am a certified Harley Davidson tech and a heavy equipment mechanic. . . .
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 10-13-2016, 01:26 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
My car is at the local dealership right now. They said I needed a NOx sensor. Around $1200 parts and labor. I'd like to replace it myself but I'm not sure what needs to be done to reset the "mileage countdown". The cheapest I found a sensor was $600 at the BMW parts dept. Then my SA said that maybe its not the sensor...
Anyone have a good source for less expensive BMW parts?

They are replacing the transmission right now so I have time to contemplate the sensor issue.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 10-13-2016, 02:21 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills, California USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 21,201
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxisimo View Post
They are replacing the transmission right now so I have time to contemplate the sensor issue.
Who gets the old tranny? Prolly $200 in parts and it will be fine....
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 10-13-2016, 02:28 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
The old tranny is getting rebuilt by a licensed rebuilder then shipped back with 2 year unlimited mile warranty.

I already bought a transmission off of eBay anticipating the need to replace it but I like the warranty so I went ahead and had them do it. $1000 out of pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 10-13-2016, 04:25 PM
ingenieur ingenieur is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Horse country
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 575
Mein Auto: 2011 335d M-sport
When the "Incorrect fluid warning" is on (meaning SCR system malfunction) - the only was it can be reset by a technician (as it is a permanent fault) is when the DDE monitoring of the NOx conversion rate indicates the system is functioning properly again - so after the repair is made.

So - as stated in the test plan - initiate a DPF regeneration and perform a drive long enough that the regen completes - SCR catalyst is reloaded with NH3, and the CCM warning goes out indicating an acceptable conversion rate. Then the faults may be cleared.

I've mentioned before in a few threads to try and help a few on E90post.com, but they appear to be focused more on tuning and emission system removal.
If your dealer ran the SCR test plan and it concluded to replace the sensor - that would be ok - then see if the CCM warning goes out..

The first step in that test is to check the DEF quality with a refractometer, and the metering valve for DEF buildup and dosing quantity.

I imagine being in SF labor repair rates are higher than the OP encountered in FL.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 10-14-2016, 07:08 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Reno NV & Healdsburg CA
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,157
Mein Auto: 4 BMWs, 1 Mini, 1 Vespa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxisimo View Post
Anyone have a good source for less expensive BMW parts?

.

FCPEuro.com
__________________
Current:
2018 540ix
2015 428i convertible
2013 Cooper S
2007 650i - 6 speed
2002 330ci convertible - 5 speed



Past:
2012 X5 Diesel
2012 Countryman S All4 - 6 speed
2006 Cooper S - 6 speed
2006 330i - 6 speed
1997 328is - 5 speed
1991 318is - 5 speed
1988 635csi - 5 speed
1988 325i convertible - 5 speed
1969 2002 with tii and 5 speed conversions
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 10-14-2016, 02:07 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
Thanks Guys,

I really didn't mean to hijack this thread with my cars issues but I'm really grateful for the help.

The dealer SA is saying that the tech is unsure if its actually a NOx sensor. I told him I'd like to replace it myself once the diagnosis is complete.
The repair will cost around $1000 no matter what according to the SA.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 10-14-2016, 02:31 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,169
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxisimo View Post
Thanks Guys,

I really didn't mean to hijack this thread with my cars issues but I'm really grateful for the help.

The dealer SA is saying that the tech is unsure if its actually a NOx sensor. I told him I'd like to replace it myself once the diagnosis is complete.
The repair will cost around $1000 no matter what according to the SA.
Have you seen the Test Plan? I find it difficult to believe that a differential diagnosis was not attempted.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 10-14-2016, 02:41 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
I have not seen anything.
I dropped it off last week and wasn't emailed anything as far as a test plan goes. No word from the dealership.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 10-14-2016, 03:06 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
Just was updated by the SA. The NOx sensor is indeed bad. He says until that is replaced the can't perform a real diagnosis or create a test plan.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 10-14-2016, 03:45 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,169
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
I believe that the BMW mothership computer has the Test Plan database triggered by the DTC(s). In my work it was Fault Tree Analysis and generated by the builder.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 10-14-2016, 03:49 PM
ingenieur ingenieur is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Horse country
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 575
Mein Auto: 2011 335d M-sport
If the 4d16 fault for efficiency is the only fault stored then this would not be the case and I'd question this response.
However, if there is another fault related to NOx sensor communication or one which identifies a hard NOx sensor failure - then a test plan would not be recommended as both sensors must be functioning for the SCR test to run.
Were any other SCR related faults stored?
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 10-14-2016, 07:37 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: Sierra foothills, California USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 21,201
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
maximo-

SAs are 'service salesmen'...their job is to tell you as little as possible. TestPlans are not sent to customers- the master tech will see these, then tell the SA to call you and take more money.

If you passively wait for the dealer to give you things, you will get nothing. Each time you request more, they will resist and deflect.

On the trans, what is a "licensed rebuilder"???? You used up a lot of your warranty on that, eh? And this is a BMW dealership doing the labor?
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 11-23-2016, 06:03 PM
Maxisimo Maxisimo is offline
Registered User
Location: San Francisco California
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Mein Auto: 2011 335D
Hi guys

It's been awhile since I have been here. I thought I would give you an update.
I had the transmission replaced by the dealership. It now has a 2 year unlimited mile warranty. I paid about $1000 to do it.
I was going to do it myself (I bought a used trans with a warranty) but my mechanic friend who was going to let me use his lift went out of town for 3 weeks just as the trans was delivered.
I would have waited but then the SCR issue started with a 200 mile countdown!

So the local BMW dealership took great care of me and gave me a 5 series loaner while I was waiting to get the trans fixed.
Now I can tackle the SCR issue. Basically the Nox sensor needs to be replaced before they can even fully diagnose the SCR issue. They say their diagnostic equipment won't let them proceed until that is done.
The cost to replace the sensor is beyond my pocketbook so I am looking for a good used sensor to replace myself and then take back to the dealership for them to diagnose.

Does anyone have a diesel that they deleted the SCR system on and have an old but good Nox sensor?

I also have a good transmission that I can't use now. Does anyone need one?
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories

Tags
2009, def, diesel, diy, exhaust fluid, maintenance, x5, xdrive35d


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.