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  #51  
Old 06-04-2016, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWtight2me View Post
The car feels and performs better than a stock 335i IMHO. It's probably faster to 40mph and slower after 80mph: and it feels more nimble and springy on the track.

No m3 clone here, not even the msport body or m3 kit. Personally I like the look of quads, but I wouldn't get hung up on that. Anyone doing this can set up the exhaust however they like.

How much time do you have in a 335i?

I agree that it's your car and you wanted to mod the hell out of it, so more power to you.

But I wouldn't spout off about how your car is faster than a 335i even to 40mph without the track slips to prove it.

Not to mention that a cheap $600 tune on the 335i will put it way over what you've got going on. Not to mention 340i that has dyno numbers showing that stock it is at over350 horsepower. Way more than N20 can safely do.

Enjoy what you have, you don't need to justify it to us with all the bravado and trash talk.
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  #52  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWtight2me View Post
No doubt. Modding comes with risks. My experience so far has been great.

I see you have a jb4 on your 135i. That must be fun ; )
care to inform us on what mechanical issues you have had with your 320 that BMW has paid for?
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  #53  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWtight2me View Post
I totally considered this. A used f30 335i would be the most fun choice. I was conservative and looked for a cheap deal on something new and reliable. I was also interested in starting my tuning experience with a more modest perspective. As my speed addiction grows so can the cylinders. Jumping straight into the deep end... I would probably crash a fully modified 335i in the first year of owning it.

Right now I'm loving the n20. It's surprisingly quick compared to a stock 328i, and the car is light and composed. I'm amazed how easily I keep up with my friends sports cars. Would love to try racing a stock m sport 335i. I'm estimating my car is somewhere near 300hp and lighter. It's lighter than a 228i oddly enough.
I get this. I was merely playing devils advocate, with the logic presented by the previous poster.
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  #54  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:30 PM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
How much time do you have in a 335i?

I agree that it's your car and you wanted to mod the hell out of it, so more power to you.

But I wouldn't spout off about how your car is faster than a 335i even to 40mph without the track slips to prove it.

Not to mention that a cheap $600 tune on the 335i will put it way over what you've got going on. Not to mention 340i that has dyno numbers showing that stock it is at over350 horsepower. Way more than N20 can safely do.

Enjoy what you have, you don't need to justify it to us with all the bravado and trash talk.
One of my best friend has an msport 335i. Sat in it for two years before I bought mine. That car was what inspired me to get an f30. I also preferred the 328i for the price and efficiency. That's when I did a bit of research and decided the 320i was the best deal for me. Honestly I prefer how it drives now over the stock msport 335i. Obviously it will stomp my car out with a tune, but that's beside the point. Still know it will give a 335i a run for its money to 40mph. The funny thing is I have spent time in 335is, but I bet you've never been in a highly modified 320i. They seem kind of rare fro the looks of it! Would be fun to race that 340i of yours

Just trying to inject a lil fun in this. The thread is called "320i from HELL" after all.

And eagle, 20k miles trouble free and good relations with my mechanics.

Last edited by BMWtight2me; 06-04-2016 at 10:27 PM.
  #55  
Old 06-04-2016, 11:22 PM
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While I haven't driven a modified 320i myself I have run into at least two on the interstate here locally. Similar to yours the owners had dumped $8K-$10K at a minimum into modding them. I get it, for some people modding the car and having a unique car are a big draw. A surgeon friend of mine bought an Subaru WRX instead of the M3 he wanted and when he is done will have at least $20,000 in mods, including pretty serious engine work. Me, I would just get the M3 and call it a day.

Whatever floats your boat. There are guys somewhere bitching their 911 Turbos aren't fast enough. For me, I want the performance but I don't want the headaches that frequently come with modding. I make good money and just lease the car, it is a rental... Drive something fun for a few years then turn it in and get something else. Next one probably be a Tesla 3 with ludicrous + AWD. Probably do 0-60 in around 3 seconds.
  #56  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BMWtight2me View Post
One The funny thing is I have spent time in 335is, .
Funny thing is I spent 3 years in a nicely modified 335is.
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  #57  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:36 AM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
While I haven't driven a modified 320i myself I have run into at least two on the interstate here locally. Similar to yours the owners had dumped $8K-$10K at a minimum into modding them. I get it, for some people modding the car and having a unique car are a big draw. A surgeon friend of mine bought an Subaru WRX instead of the M3 he wanted and when he is done will have at least $20,000 in mods, including pretty serious engine work. Me, I would just get the M3 and call it a day.

Whatever floats your boat. There are guys somewhere bitching their 911 Turbos aren't fast enough. For me, I want the performance but I don't want the headaches that frequently come with modding. I make good money and just lease the car, it is a rental... Drive something fun for a few years then turn it in and get something else. Next one probably be a Tesla 3 with ludicrous + AWD. Probably do 0-60 in around 3 seconds.
Makes sense. I could see myself doing the same thing if I wanted to keep it stock or if I switched to an electric DD.

But my shoulder devil just wants me to accumulate a garage full of modified abominations. Too many video games. I want to do a track car next.
  #58  
Old 06-05-2016, 01:21 AM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Funny thing is I spent 3 years in a nicely modified 335is.
How far did you push it beyond stock? Any issues? I didn't feel comfortable jumping straight into the deep end on my first BMW, but down the road when I'm more numb to the speed, I'll definitely be playing with more cylinders.

At the moment though the 320i really hits the spot. There's just something about short shifting through the sweet spot of the 8-speed gear box. The power matches real world driving so perfectly that I constantly get the satisfaction of pushing the car. And on the flip side of the coin, the mods seem to have enhanced my efficiency in Eco mode. When I'm feeling lazy on the highway I love playing the mpg game and trying to keep the needle above 50mpg. One could say less is more with these f30s.

Last edited by BMWtight2me; 06-05-2016 at 01:26 AM.
  #59  
Old 06-05-2016, 03:53 AM
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And eagle, 20k miles trouble free and good relations with my mechanics.
I think you are missing the point in what the other poster was saying, if you had a mechanical issue doesn't matter what kind of relationship you have with the mechanic the shop foreman and service manager will look into this the mechanic wont have a say in how BMW will warrant the fix.
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  #60  
Old 06-05-2016, 07:33 AM
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How far did you push it beyond stock? Any issues? I didn't feel comfortable jumping straight into the deep end on my first BMW, but down the road when I'm more numb to the speed, I'll definitely be playing with more cylinders. .
410WHP @ 18.5psi on a DynoJet. 12.1/116MPH. The I6 N54 335is ECU will require less boost than the I4 so you can't make a direct issues comparison.

Only tune related maintenance was a Walnut Blasting required because of carbonization of the intake valves. Paid for under warranty as pure stock cars were also being affected. Added a catch can & the issue never reappeared.

Just a note about how this thread was received. Quite a bit of your stuff had or seemed at have the attitude that everybody here was braindead when it came to your modifications.

People all have differences of opinion on how to spend their money & how they want to deal with their cars. There is a very wide range of ages, experience, income & interests here. Some guys who will not touch their DD have full on track cars.

Most of the time you respect their ideas even if 100% opposite yours & they will respect yours.
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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 06-05-2016 at 02:58 PM.
  #61  
Old 06-05-2016, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
... I get it, for some people modding the car and having a unique car are a big draw.
I kind of get it, too. One of the reasons that so many car manufacturers exist is because people want something "different". My question always is: if you don't like it the way you bought it, why did you buy it in the first place and didn't buy something else?

And mods for power? Pretty silly IMHO: there's always someone faster out there so why waste your money.

Sorry for the kind of troll-ey post.
  #62  
Old 06-05-2016, 10:44 AM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I kind of get it, too. One of the reasons that so many car manufacturers exist is because people want something "different". My question always is: if you don't like it the way you bought it, why did you buy it in the first place and didn't buy something else?

And mods for power? Pretty silly IMHO: there's always someone faster out there so why waste your money.

Sorry for the kind of troll-ey post.
All g! I'm used to it. Try mentioning "320i modding potential" and see what happens.

To answer your question. Beyond the fact that I love modding and would happily do a similar build to any f30, modding allows people to customize their car any way they want. I couldn't even buy my car from BMW if I wanted to. IMHO my car is superior to any 320/328i BMW has to offer. I want certain things for my car, and I judge it against those standards. Maybe weather mats are your kind of mod. My car happened to come with them, and they're fantastic! To give you some more of my perspective, I worked really hard to get the exact ride height, stance, and wheels to complement the contours of the body and provide the driving experience I like. People can have pride in whatever car and set up they want, and it's great we all have such different taste. I've always been inspired by the rod and custom modding culture around guys like Ed Roth.



Maybe one of my shoulder Devils is actually just Rat Fink
  #63  
Old 06-05-2016, 12:19 PM
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The part about modding that rarely gets discussed in threads like this one is what the effect of modifications are on the long term reliability of the car (or even short term if you don't want to deal with your car being in the shop).

Both of the Audis that I chip-tuned had minor issues that were more than likely attributable to some degree to the Stage I upgrades I did to them.

I'll ask you another question... if 300+ hp is so effortless to hit with the N20 engine then why doesn't BMW simply sell it that way? How come Audi, for the S3 and Golf R 2.0T motors have them completely redesigned and over-built to handle the 300hp that they produce? Why not just take the same engine in a 240 hp A4 or VW Passat, put an intake + exhaust on it and crank the hell out of the boost on it?

The reason is long term reliability. Not for the length of a lease, but for engines that are supposed to go 200,000+ miles without any major problems for the owner.

I honestly feel sorry for the suckers who buy used or lease-returned 320is/328is/A4s, etc, that lived their first 3-5 years of life as heavily modified street legal drag cars. That person then probably wonders why the car doesn't even hit 75,000 miles before major engine/turbo/transmission problems begin to occur and it is sometimes down hill from there.

In fact some fellow posted a video just a month or two ago about his 328i blowing up at the track with no follow-up from him on how the dealer "handled the warranty repair". Chances are they did not cover it under warranty.

So, if I want something that puts 350+ horsepower down I will get the car that is engineered for it and be far less concerned about catastrophic failure, not to mention sleeping well at night knowing that I'm not schlepping my lease off onto some poor bastard who gets the car and has no idea it had the snot beaten out of it and the power plant was asked to do far more than it was engineered to do.
  #64  
Old 06-05-2016, 01:25 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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The more recent n20s seem capable of pushing it to 300hp territory. The '13s are known to have issues with the timing chain stretching, but that issue was supposedly fixed for following years. Also, from what I've heard, forged internal aren't necessary unless you're running a bigger turbo and pushing well beyond 300hp.

Regardless, if anything does happen you guys will be the first to know
Was yours built after 2/2015? The old timing chain part# was up to 1/2015.
  #65  
Old 06-05-2016, 01:32 PM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
The part about modding that rarely gets discussed in threads like this one is what the effect of modifications are on the long term reliability of the car (or even short term if you don't want to deal with your car being in the shop).
If you want to discuss it I think its great to look case by case. I have only read of a handful of cases, mainly on n54 tech. From my reading it seems to mainly be the result of two issues, stretching the timing chain and potentially throwing a rod. From what I recall, the broken piston stories were all in 328is running maps 1 or 2. Running map 5 seems safe from what Ive read. The timing chain issue was supposedly a 2012-14 problem do to BMWs design. Running the JB4 merely accelerates the process. Subsequent years supposedly don't have this problem. For threads like this, I think sharing links and examples is the best way to help educate a better understanding of how to account for potential issues. I wouldn't want this thread to scare people away from modding in general.

Check out these links:
http://www.rightfootdown.com/cars/au...nents-n26-too/
http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/09/29/bm...20-n26-engine/

Some of my mods, like the intercooler and charge pipes, are less for power and more about creating a proper system for handling potential power. Thanks to this thread I think I will be adding a catch can in the near future.
  #66  
Old 06-05-2016, 01:39 PM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Was yours built after 2/2015? The old timing chain part# was up to 1/2015.
yes Just checked my VIN history report. Engine was built 3/2015.

Last edited by BMWtight2me; 06-05-2016 at 01:50 PM.
  #67  
Old 06-05-2016, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I'll ask you another question... if 300+ hp is so effortless to hit with the N20 engine then why doesn't BMW simply sell it that way? .
Marketing, economics & preserving the spread between models as you move up in price.

320 - 328 same engine different tune, 328 sells from more than a 320. 135 - 135is same engine different tune 135is is sold for more money. 335 - 335is same engine different tune 335is is sold for more money. 335IS - Z4IS same engine same tune different rated power. Z4 costs more. Z4IS - 1M same engine different tune 1M sold for more money.

M235 - M2 same basic engine N55 with some S55 parts like oil pan pump added on A lot more money.

What most of the good BMW tuners are doing is what BMW is doing Take an engine make some software changes & raise the horsepower. The tuners are just less expensive.

An interesting point is your 300HP number. Since 2007 the 335 has had IIRC 7 or 8 engine variations going from the N54 to the N55 all rated by BMW at 300hp but not one version having the same horsepower on a dyno as the next version. During that time actual horsepower in the 335 has risen, fallen & risen but it was always advertised as 300HP.

In other words the 300HP number is a marketing creation & has nothing to do with reality. If you look at their ratings in the cars specs they always say "Nominal output hp/rpm" Definition of Nominal "existing in name only"
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  #68  
Old 06-05-2016, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
Marketing, economics & preserving the spread between models as you move up in price.

320 - 328 same engine different tune, 328 sells from more than a 320. 135 - 135is same engine different tune 135is is sold for more money. 335 - 335is same engine different tune 335is is sold for more money. 335IS - Z4IS same engine same tune different rated power. Z4 costs more. Z4IS - 1M same engine different tune 1M sold for more money.

M235 - M2 same basic engine N55 with some S55 parts like oil pan pump added on A lot more money.

What most of the good BMW tuners are doing is what BMW is doing Take an engine make some software changes & raise the horsepower. The tuners are just less expensive.

An interesting point is your 300HP number. Since 2007 the 335 has had IIRC 7 or 8 engine variations going from the N54 to the N55 all rated by BMW at 300hp but not one version having the same horsepower on a dyno as the next version. During that time actual horsepower in the 335 has risen, fallen & risen but it was always advertised as 300HP.

In other words the 300HP number is a marketing creation & has nothing to do with reality. If you look at their ratings in the cars specs they always say "Nominal output hp/rpm" Definition of Nominal "existing in name only"
Sorry Bear, I don't agree with you.

I don't have a direct BMW comparison I can make, but we can make one with Audi. Audi sells their 2.0T engine that is used in a large variety of VW and Audi cars and depending on application makes between 180 and 245 or so horsepower.

Then they make a different variant of the engine for the S3/Golf-R that is almost completely different and produces 300 hp.

Different connecting rods, different turbo, different intake, different manifold, intercooler different, there are probably over 30 parts that are different to produce that engine.

If it was just "marketing" I don't think they would spend the money to develop the power-plant further to produce the 300hp, they would just increase the boost pressure.

The only explanation I can come up with is that the extra engineering is needed in order to insure reliable operation of the engine in all conditions for not only the warrantied life of the power plant but for the realistic time that the power plant is expected to go before it needs to be rebuilt.

Last edited by voip-ninja; 06-05-2016 at 04:19 PM.
  #69  
Old 06-05-2016, 04:40 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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yes Just checked my VIN history report. Engine was built 3/2015.
FYI, the 328i has beefed up drive shaft, output shafts, and rear diffs compared to 320i, so it maybe prudent to upgrade these drive train components to eliminate the weak links after the engine mods.
  #70  
Old 06-05-2016, 04:55 PM
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FYI, the 328i has beefed up drive shaft, output shafts, and rear diffs compared to 320i, so it maybe prudent to upgrade these drive train components to eliminate the weak links after the engine mods.
It also has a different compression ratio.
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  #71  
Old 06-05-2016, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
FYI, the 328i has beefed up drive shaft, output shafts, and rear diffs compared to 320i, so it maybe prudent to upgrade these drive train components to eliminate the weak links after the engine mods.
From what my tuning advisors say it is unecessary below 350hp. Still want to look into it further though. Thanks!
  #72  
Old 06-05-2016, 05:12 PM
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It also has a different compression ratio.
It's supposed to love e85 blends. Working on getting FF wires.
  #73  
Old 06-05-2016, 05:13 PM
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From what my tuning advisors say it is unecessary below 350hp. Still want to look into it further though. Thanks!
Well, as long as your "tuning advisor" will cover any potential repairs, I would say you are G2G Bro!
  #74  
Old 06-05-2016, 05:57 PM
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Well, as long as your "tuning advisor" will cover any potential repairs, I would say you are G2G Bro!
We all know what will happen when his engine dies his tuning advisor will say, "Dude that sucks, sorry to hear, that'll be 9K to fit it, but this time, will beef up the engine to handle 400hp"
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  #75  
Old 06-05-2016, 06:29 PM
BMWtight2me BMWtight2me is offline
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Well, as long as your "tuning advisor" will cover any potential repairs, I would say you are G2G Bro!
I'll take my chances. The set up seems strong, and the car has never run better. I'm blessed to have someone in town with a great shop that I trust. 20k miles and 0 issues.
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