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Z4 facelift

4K views 33 replies 16 participants last post by  SpeedFreak! 
#1 ·

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#2 ·
Whats different?

Sorry, I just don't really see any difference from the spy shot. The sides look the same to me as does what I can see of the Banglized butt.

I was really hoping for some major changes (IMHO, pretty much anything would be an improvement) and overall something more Z8 like in appearence. Oh, well. As it is now, with the way BMW is handling the sub frame issues with the Z3, we aren't so anxious now to continue buying them anymore. :cry:
 
#3 ·
Michael Rose said:
Sorry, I just don't really see any difference from the spy shot.
well, evidently they're not doing anything as drastic as the Z3 facelift (when they changed the rear end). However, if you want to guess what will be different....i'd say everything covered in tape. tail lgihts, front end, rear bumper and/or exhaust....

i'm worried that there haven't been any Z4 coupe spyshots yet :( . usually we have a lot of lead time on this sort of thing (how long have there been quad-tip z4 pics out? a long while.)
 
#4 ·
They'd better get off their 'duffs' and make some real changes on the Z4 if they want it to sell worth a flip. The sales data is horrible and not getting better. There is so much potential in this car if they'd get some professional customer advice.

My 2¢
 
#5 ·
mng said:
well, evidently they're not doing anything as drastic as the Z3 facelift (when they changed the rear end). However, if you want to guess what will be different....i'd say everything covered in tape. tail lgihts, front end, rear bumper and/or exhaust....

i'm worried that there haven't been any Z4 coupe spyshots yet :( . usually we have a lot of lead time on this sort of thing (how long have there been quad-tip z4 pics out? a long while.)
Well, I am sorry, but re-styled tail lights and a nose job is just not going to cut it. The Z4 needs to be re-skinned front to back. The overall shape of the car is fine, but the bulging nose, flame surface sides with Z crease, and the bangle butt just kill it. You would think they would have played off of the hype and desire to own a Z8 that they would have followed those styling cues in a much more attainable roadster. I was shocked that this was not the case when the Z4 was finally revealed. Here was a perfect opportunity for them to correct their past asthetic mistakes that BMW design team has been making over the past several years. Alas, the Z4 is still not appealing to me. I doubt that with these minor changes the sales of the Z4 will improve. How long till the Z4 undergoes a complete redesign (next generation)?

The quad-tip Z4 has been running around for ages. Since they are not doing much to improve the roadster, I doubt the coupe will look any better. Here's hoping though.
 
#6 ·
dwaynemosley said:
They'd better get off their 'duffs' and make some real changes on the Z4 if they want it to sell worth a flip. The sales data is horrible and not getting better. There is so much potential in this car if they'd get some professional customer advice.

My 2¢
I agree sales have been slow... as they ALWAYS are with this segment. You may not know this... but people said the same thing about the Z3... and for the record... the Z4 has completely beat every sales standard set by the Z3. It has out-sold and out-performed the original in every case. Further more... for every person that hates the look... there are droves and droves of people who love it. The haters... statistically... are in the minority. With the new line-up... 3.0 ... 3.0si ... M roadster... no matter what they do, the Z4 line will be on fire!

It's interesting to me to see these responses... these opinions. I see more people come on the lot googling at the Z4 then most of our other cars. When I take a Z4... and I do often... I get more stares and more comments then any other as well. The biggest problem for the Z4 was the same for the Z3... it's an ultra niche car... terribly impractical. It takes a very special buyer to own one. Hopefully the face lift will be fresh... and more aggressive. Especially the M.
 
#7 ·
The original design sketches are much more agressive. I like it to be honest. The actual vehicle coming off the line just looks weak to me. NO agression what so ever. Like they designed it for women to still like it. I hate that. Let it be what it is, dont try to make it be most marketable it can be.
 
#11 ·
Mpire said:
The original design sketches are much more agressive. I like it to be honest. The actual vehicle coming off the line just looks weak to me. NO agression what so ever. Like they designed it for women to still like it. I hate that. Let it be what it is, dont try to make it be most marketable it can be.
I agree whole heartedly! :thumbup: I hate how they take the edge out of the concept... seems to get weaker as it goes into production. :tsk: I do like the Z4... only in 3.0 ZSP trim... anything else is weak IMHO. I hope the M version is like the Z3 M... wide... bold... agressive... as a roadster should be. That, and the M coupe, are still the best design to date. We'll see. Maybe the Z4 version of the M roadster will beat it. I'm very excited to see the end result.

Fred Meloan? :dunno: Who is that? I'll have to do a search. My statement is based on TRUE internal BMW numbers. In sales... the Z4 has kicked the Z3's ass... hands down. I'll read Fred Meloan's post... but if it does not coincide with BMW's claim... I would be quite suspicious.
 
#12 ·
SpeedFreak! said:
Fred Meloan? :dunno: Who is that? I'll have to do a search. My statement is based on TRUE internal BMW numbers. In sales... the Z4 has kicked the Z3's ass... hands down. I'll read Fred Meloan's post... but if it does not coincide with BMW's claim... I would be quite suspicious.
i haven't really looked at the numbers, but here...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106816

this is just july...i'm sure he has intro-to-date data posted somewhere....
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106810
 
#13 ·
SpeedFreak! said:
... and for the record... the Z4 has completely beat every sales standard set by the Z3. It has out-sold and out-performed the original in every case.
How do you figure? Here are a couple stats from Fred Meloan's sales reports:

Z3 Sales
15,040 for 1996 (2/96-12/96)
19,760 for 1997
20,613 for 1998
20,062 for 1999
16,382 for 2000
14,914 for 2001
6, 786 for 2002

Z4 Sales
3,704 for 2002 (10/02-12/02)
20,169 for 2003
13,654 for 2004

By looking into the monthly numbers, it can be seen that BMW sold 35,189 Z4's during its first two production years (10/02 - 9/04). BMW sold 36,028 Z3's through its first two years (2/96 - 1/98). So over the first two years, the Z3 outsold the Z4 (Z4 had two models for the first two years, Z3 only had two models for 15 of the 24 months).

Now, let's take a look at the percentage changes:

Z3
+31% from 1996 to 1997
+4.3% from 1998 to 1998
-2.3% from 1998 to 1999
-18.3% from 1999 to 2000
-9.0% from 2000 to 2001
-54.5% from 2001 to 2002

Z4
+445% from 2002 to 2003 (only 3 months of deliveries in 2002)
-32% from 2003 to 2004

If you equate the time frames, the Z3 was either experiencing single digit growths in sales or single-digit declines, but definitely not 32% declines.

I'd be curious to see if your data matches up to Fred's and hear the reason why you say that the Z4 has outsold the Z3 in all respects.

John
 
#14 ·
YOU GO JOHNS54COUPE,Nothing like laying out the numbers and doing the math.I agree,upon arrival of the z4 I was not impressed,as a matter of fact not many people I know were,they all like the classic retro lines of the z3 better.Oh ya I bet what they are hiding under that duct tape won't impress many either.Don't get me wrong I would like to see the z4 improve its looks also a little interior revamp wouldn't hurt either. But to each his own
 
#15 ·
JohnS54Coupe said:
...
I'd be curious to see if your data matches up to Fred's and hear the reason why you say that the Z4 has outsold the Z3 in all respects.

John
Me too... I'm at home today... when I go in tomorrow I'll pull the internal numbers and post what I find. I have no idea where those numbers come from... but would be happy to provide my own to see where the differences are. Again... the internal word is that the Z4 has outsold the Z3... hands down. I will need to look closer to see if there is some creative use of the numbers in order to "spin" a more favorable report. :thumbup:
 
#16 ·
JohnS54Coupe said:
How do you figure? Here are a couple stats from Fred Meloan's sales reports:
John, thanks for taking the time to post that. Fred Meloan is one of the original bimmer.org posters (back when bimmer.org was ONLY a Z3 board) and one of the first Z3 owners. He became a dealer employee and has pretty religiously posted monthly Z-series US sales data for the last 3-5+ (?) years every month. His data is very precise.
 
#17 ·
JonM said:
John, thanks for taking the time to post that. Fred Meloan is one of the original bimmer.org posters (back when bimmer.org was ONLY a Z3 board) and one of the first Z3 owners. He became a dealer employee and has pretty religiously posted monthly Z-series US sales data for the last 3-5+ (?) years every month. His data is very precise.
So Jon... is BMW cookin' the books or spinning their facts? This completely contradicts the internal company line. I am NEVER one to tow the company line... so how are they doing this? Any ideas? :dunno:

EDIT: Or... :gulp:... are we being lied to?
 
#18 · (Edited)
SpeedFreak! said:
I agree sales have been slow... as they ALWAYS are with this segment. You may not know this... but people said the same thing about the Z3... and for the record... the Z4 has completely beat every sales standard set by the Z3. It has out-sold and out-performed the original in every case. Further more... for every person that hates the look... there are droves and droves of people who love it. The haters... statistically... are in the minority. With the new line-up... 3.0 ... 3.0si ... M roadster... no matter what they do, the Z4 line will be on fire!

It's interesting to me to see these responses... these opinions. I see more people come on the lot googling at the Z4 then most of our other cars. When I take a Z4... and I do often... I get more stares and more comments then any other as well. The biggest problem for the Z4 was the same for the Z3... it's an ultra niche car... terribly impractical. It takes a very special buyer to own one. Hopefully the face lift will be fresh... and more aggressive. Especially the M.
/agree
The Z4 is generally disliked on this & most other BMW forums (w/the exception of z4um.com of course).

Yet enthusiasts are indeed in the minority.
I've been driving a Z4 for 2 years, and using it as a daily driver for 1 year. In that time I have never recieved one negative comment. Instead I am constantly greeted with positive comments (nearly every other fill up @ the gas station I have someone come over & oogle the car[I'm not saying it's a ferrari that deserves loads of attention, but it is a rather rare car in this area, and is still quite new]).

As far as a restyle the only thing that I would really like to see changed is the front bumper. The OEM bumper is just kinda plain. I think the aero bumper is an immense improvement on an otherwise bland front end (I love every angle on the Z4 except head on).

FYI take a look @ the Z3 sales history that was posted here a couple days ago. I don't believe the Z3 sold a huge amount more vehicles. Indeed by the end of the lifecycle is wasn't selling all that well I'd say. Granted Z4 sales have fallen off faster (but so too has the entire individual roadster segment declined due to oversaturation perhaps). But the Z3/Z4 sales are low volume to begin with. A 2k sales decline wouldn't be huge cause for comment if it happened to the 3er, but when Z4 sales capped @ ~15k, when they fall to 13k, 11k etc it seems to cause more notice...

Either way I'd just as soon not see a Z4 every time I turn the corner. :) I enjoy having a unique car when parking on a college lot htat possess' most other makes of cars, yet only 1 Z4.

.02
 
#19 ·
#20 ·
5 Rakete said:
Who cares about numbers.

If it has a fully tuned (or better) S54 with SMG and some decent M-only colors I might be back in the Z-game.

Take a look at this, supposedly the front end of the M Roadster (probably a PhotoChop) from Auto Motor und Sport...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/88138/d_ams_fotoshow_detail?skip=2
MUCH better... they better flare the back, too... like the old M roadster. :thumbup:
 
#22 ·
SpeedFreak! said:
So Jon... is BMW cookin' the books or spinning their facts? This completely contradicts the internal company line. I am NEVER one to tow the company line... so how are they doing this? Any ideas? :dunno:

EDIT: Or... :gulp:... are we being lied to?
I would imagine spinning the facts, no company that has that kind of money in a new product wants anyone to know that it is not selling as good or better as the one it replaced... that is just admitting that people do not like it as much as they had thought they would....
The z4 has grown on me and i think it drives like a roadster should, but and maybe i am reaching, many z3 owners have their z as a fun car, not there main transportaion; In other words they could have easily gotten in a z4 but I know that for the most part they have not
I know some have but not a drove of them
either way the 4 is a sweet car and the m version will surely sell
 
#23 ·
It probably didn't help z4 sales much either since they bumped the price 2-5k vs. the z3. Its a bit pricey for a weekend car if you compare it a more purposeful daily driver bmw like the 3 series. Then again, a used z3 is great weekend car at prices today! Where can you find a kickass weekend car that has loads of style and plenty of performance for 15-25k? I'm sure if BMW priced the Z4 right, it would sell.
 
#24 ·
01silber said:
I would imagine spinning the facts, no company that has that kind of money in a new product wants anyone to know that it is not selling as good or better as the one it replaced... that is just admitting that people do not like it as much as they had thought they would....
The z4 has grown on me and i think it drives like a roadster should, but and maybe i am reaching, many z3 owners have their z as a fun car, not there main transportaion; In other words they could have easily gotten in a z4 but I know that for the most part they have not
I know some have but not a drove of them
either way the 4 is a sweet car and the m version will surely sell
This really bothers me... I'm determined to get to the bottom of this. I've heard the claim from higher ups in meetings... on official BMW training vids... at ride and drives... etc... I have no reason to pull this out of my ass. I personally prefer the looks of the Z3 in many ways. Even though I also like the Z4... I think the Z4 should have been more of an evolution from the Z3 then a radical departure from it. After reading those numbers... assuming they are right on as Jon stated... I would really like to know how BMW managed to spin that to yield the opposite claim. Seems quite fishy to me. I detest misinformation... especially when it's done intentionally. :thumbdwn:
 
#25 ·
Like I said, who cares about numbers.

However since we do (and actually I do too, Deep Impact wouldn't have hit that comet otherwise) please note Fred Meloan's comment...

"Please note that I only report United States sales data."

Perhaps your information, SpeedFreak, is based on BMW worldwide sales of Z4s compared to Z3s?

SpeedFreak! said:
This really bothers me... I'm determined to get to the bottom of this. I've heard the claim from higher ups in meetings... on official BMW training vids... at ride and drives... etc... I have no reason to pull this out of my ass. I personally prefer the looks of the Z3 in many ways. Even though I also like the Z4... I think the Z4 should have been more of an evolution from the Z3 then a radical departure from it. After reading those numbers... assuming they are right on as Jon stated... I would really like to know how BMW managed to spin that to yield the opposite claim. Seems quite fishy to me. I detest misinformation... especially when it's done intentionally. :thumbdwn:
 
#26 ·
JT///M3 said:
It probably didn't help z4 sales much either since they bumped the price 2-5k vs. the z3. Its a bit pricey for a weekend car if you compare it a more purposeful daily driver bmw like the 3 series. Then again, a used z3 is great weekend car at prices today! Where can you find a kickass weekend car that has loads of style and plenty of performance for 15-25k? I'm sure if BMW priced the Z4 right, it would sell.
honesty i do think that the price increase is justified
whether u like the z4's looks or not, there is no doubt (@ least for me) that it is a better/more expensive car
the materials are better, the interior is far more upscale, handling is better, the top is a huge improvement as is the sound etc
anyways I can see why it costs more than the Z3, the z3 just feels like a cheaper car

there is a reason the z3 competed with the miata and s2000, whereas the z4 competes with teh slk350 and boxster...
 
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