E60 forum member demographics changing for the worse. - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 12-22-2019, 05:57 AM
MarkCh MarkCh is offline
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Post E60 forum member demographics changing for the worse.

With the aging of the E60, and today's values, member demographics have been changing for the worse. I've come up with a list of the types of members we have here.


Contributor DIYer:
Members taking their valuable time to post detailed 'How-tos' usually with pictures and links for parts and/or needed tools, and where they got them. Also what other problems they encountered, things that broke while doing the repair, and other repairs that should also be done while performing the original job.

The Motivation for the Contributor DIYer is to help fellow DIYers out, who in the future, may have the same problem. Why? Mutual respect and empathy. Because DIYers usually do work with basic tools, in their cold garage or outside, sometimes their E60 on jack stands. The DIY spirit of self reliance and 'can-do' attitude is why DIYers have mutual respect and empathy for each other. Contributor DIYers motivate other DIYers to also contribute their DIY repairs and projects which further benefits the DIY community.

Helpful DIYer:
This type of member will read through the forum see another member ask for help and provide their input. Sometimes providing links and other related information regarding to the OPs issue, which takes a lot of valuable time.

The Motivation for the Helpful DIYer is very similar to the reasons of the Contributor DIYer. They want to help other DYIers and share their experiences to make the repair easier for the OP. They posts tricks and hints they learned along the way and show where they got parts and needed tools.


User DIYer:
Only here to ask for help, never to provide any help to others.

The motivation of the User DIYer is to get help. Showing gratitude for help provided will probably get the User DIYer more help in the future. The User DIYer may not feel comfortable providing DIYs or providing help, that's OK and understandable by many. Another reason may be that the User DIYer forum member doesn't want to spend their time helping others (don't care). Well, that's unfortunate.

Inconsiderate User DIYer:
Do not show appreciation/thanks to Helpful DIYers members who spent their time helping the Inconsiderate User DIYer . The Inconsiderate User DIYer will not post back what the problem/solution was, leaving the Helpful DIYers and other readers in the dark as to what was the solution.

The motivation of the Inconsiderate User is to get help without any regard for the time spent by the Contributor. No empathy, no regard for the forum members. This is very unfortunate.

False DIYer:
Then there are those who post as if they are DIYing a project when in fact they are having a shop do the work for them.

The possible motivation of a False DIYer is that they are afraid to be looked down on by DIYers ()? Could it be because they don't trust the shop and want to also find the problem independently of the shop ()? Probably a more common reason is that the member doesn't realize that they are implying that they are doing the actual work themselves.

Why is this bad?

Imagine someone posting that they are going to replace the valve stem seals on their 550i and need some help with which parts to buy, the cost etc.. Those who have done the job know how much work it takes, they see a fellow DIYer who is about to undertake a major job. With empathy and out of respect for the courage and motivation of the DIYer they spend a couple of hours on the details, their experience with the problems they encountered, where they bought the parts and tools as well as other work that should be done. There could be several other members posting their experiences and offering help too. Then the OP replies; Oh, I'm having a shop do the work. revealing him to be a False DIYer. Now imagine how the Helpful DIYers feel after they spent all their valuable time to help out a fellow DIYer only to learn he isn't even doing the work himself.


My perspective:
If you are paying a shop to do a job, let them do it they will figure it out, it's their job. Don't lead us on that you're a DIYer so we will spend a lot of our time to help out who we thought was a fellow DIYer.

Now, if you were DIYing, asked for and got help, but then became stuck for some reason and had to bring it to a shop, that's fine, we have been there too. But have the deficiency to report back what the shop found and their solution to fix the problem which we all have been trying to help you out with. The solution found will also help other members out who may have the same problem in the future.

If you're having a shop do the work, just state that up front with your questioning and you'll get the appropriate replies. After the repair, be considerate and post the results so we all may learn from it.


Now with all of the negativity above I want to add that there are some really great DYIer forum members here. These members have spent a significant amount of their valuable time providing very helpful information to others. I've been here a while and know who they are. I have the greatest respect for these members and would love to talk about our cars over a meal , or while turning wrenches together, anytime.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:19 AM
Joe Tag Joe Tag is offline
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I am new to BMWs, so I will be needing quite a bit of help. Bought the wife an E60 528xi, and liked the car so much I searched for months and picked up an E39 540 for myself. I'm a longtime standing member of other forums for domestics, and have contributed much to them. As time goes by, I do hope I will gain education through this forum and be able to pass on what I have learned. For the time being though, most of my posts will be asking for help. I am not the type of member to just ask for help on a subject and you'll never see anything from me again. You all will be stuck with me for a long time.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:40 AM
tstiglich tstiglich is online now
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Joe - what year is your 528xi? I have a 2009, may be able to answer some of your questions at a later date.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:48 AM
Kurt_ Kurt_ is offline
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Aw man, here I was expecting a list of users! Probably for the best there isn't one.

From what I've seen, the older/richer users from the last several years have moved on. There used to be lots of experienced hands on deck, but they're not on this 10-15 year old deck anymore. They've bought jags or F/G series and have been replaced with people who bought cheap E60's and somewhat broken, are generally new or newer to DIY. But, hey, that's how you start when fixing cars doesn't run in the family.

There is still an active community, which is nice. And it's more civil here than some other car forums , that's for sure. As long as we all do our best to reciprocate knowledge, it will be fine. It's a give and take.

Those of you who take, give when you find an opportunity.
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:53 AM
Joe Tag Joe Tag is offline
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tstiglich That would be great, thank you. Wife's car is an 08. I already have put quite somel work into it. Most of which, I have found to be pretty straightforward. The car was in an accident. I did the bodywork and paint on it. Saying I'm a DIYer is kind of an understatement, lol. I have many hats.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:25 AM
dharmabmw dharmabmw is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt_ View Post
Aw man, here I was expecting a list of users! Probably for the best there isn't .........And it's more civil here than some other car forums , that's for sure. As long as we all do our best to reciprocate knowledge, it will be fine. It's a give and take.

Those of you who take, give when you find an opportunity.
+1. I'm still here because the snark factor is pretty low compared to others I have been on.....
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:31 AM
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OP, not everyone on this forum is here for the DIY. There are lots of threads where people post their pics, share ride experiences, sell stuff, buy stuff, compare prices, seek terminology clarification, etc.

As a car model ages, the owner demographics are bound to change. To say that they are changing for the worse is akin to saying that the flood of immigrants entering a neighborhood or country is going to spell it's ruin. I hear what you're saying, but to pigeonhole Bimmerfest members with sweeping generalizations just shows narrowmindedness on your part.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2019, 08:46 AM
smaglik smaglik is offline
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OP, I fail to see value in this thread. I just recently picked up an e61, and have found this group to be incredibly welcoming, friendly, and helpful. I've been active on the e83 area for 7 years, and have found that area to be similar, just with less complex problems.

Perhaps a sticky of 'how to be a contributing e60 forum member' that you could link to if you felt the need might accomplish your goal better than labeling folks?
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2019, 09:15 AM
twh twh is offline
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I may have moved on if I could buy a recent model 5 series with AWD and 6MT. Since that doesn't exist, I'm still loving my car.

The posts that I most chuckle at are the "Please help!!! I just bought a car for real cheap and it has this code and doesn't run and I'm not very experienced and I have little funds and I want to also soup up the car in the process". Unfortunately for them, this isn't the late-60's when cars were pretty simple with many interchangeable parts by comparison.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:20 PM
audiophool audiophool is offline
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Bottom line, there are givers and there are takers. I've always been a giver, and sometimes look for advice where I've not tackled a specific problem. It's up to any of us how much info to provide, and if it is too much for the DIY level of the asker, some other searcher will come across the info for a win.

Get off my lawn!
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2019, 01:21 PM
mjchecko mjchecko is offline
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OP - sorry you feel justified in prejudging the rest of us. This is the most helpful and friendly forum I've found in 10 years, and this type of garbage will definitely ruin the healthy outlook here. Please try to open your mind and know that we all learn, instruct, do or say something stupid, show flashes of genius, act young with unrealistic expectations, have great ideas, act old and paternal, etc etc at different times while consuming this great forum. That's what makes it an interesting community and no one flames the occasional mistake which I'm personally thankful for.

Please don't label people or their motivations as it is really harmful.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2019, 05:33 PM
Ralph III Ralph III is offline
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Hello OP,
I cannot agree with your take at all because most folks have a different skill set. Irrespective, I'm always glad to be of help to others in whatever fashion and I do not expect anything in return. Except maybe a thank you......

God Bless,
Ralph

Last edited by Ralph III; 12-22-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:03 AM
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banglenot banglenot is offline
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This is a good forum.

We're pretty good at policing ourselves -- the approach is that we're all sitting around the same garage with a beer, talking about our cars. Anything a person wouldn't say face-to-face isn't welcome here.

Lots of ready help here, and the ones who get the most are the ones who walk in having done the best homework they can. Even the absolute newbies ("what's that yellow indicator on for?") get plenty of help when they ask for it.

I do wish that folks who get help here would close out their repair journey by telling us what the problem was. I'm always curious what others discovered.

As to the OP, I certainly don't see the demographics changing for the worse. Just different. From the "I gotta New Bimmer" in the early years, we've progressed to "I just paid $5 K for this BMW, and how do you make this N52 a 500hp beast?" Well, you can't. Next question?

Natural progression. Just like the E39 did, and the F will, and so on.

As the very wise sig on here says, "Owning a BMW is always interesting."

Cheers, and Happy Holidays, and looking forward to "seeing" everyone next year.

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Last edited by banglenot; 12-23-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:05 AM
Fred30022 Fred30022 is offline
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I recently posted a question about electrical problems. That was my first post and I hope that wasn't perceived as anything other than a respectful E60 owner and DIYer. As I re-read my post, I may come across as one of THOSE. I have followed along here for about 5 years and actually did post some things a few years ago under another name, but I was not able to recover my past login. I can offer my experience on many of my DIY projects, from simple to the more difficult. The one I think turned out the best was the Bimmer Fix solution I installed for the water pipe issue behind the water pump. I am trying to recover photos from an old phone of that one. Most recently, I dealt with the vacuum pump oil leak. Hardest part of that project was convincing my Master BMW mechanic friend, the pump itself didn't need to be replaced for $900, when I did it under an hour with a $20 O-ring kit. I am going to undertake some other projects this summer, mostly around replacing the wheel well liners and fixing some interior liners.

I am all about sharing my DIY experience and talking about new ideas.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2019, 02:59 PM
TX550 TX550 is offline
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If there's one thing I've noticed among the forums that I'm on, it's that it seems that participation has dropped off. Perhaps I'm wrong, but There's a lot of folks that seem to just go straight to the associated Facebook pages. Those pages are sometimes helpful for the DIYer, but usually there's a lot of bad info and very few individuals that are genuinely knowledgeable. I was guilty of ignoring the forums for awhile but I have tried to come back to them regularly...hoping others continue on here as well.
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Old 12-25-2019, 09:30 PM
theroux theroux is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX550 View Post
If there's one thing I've noticed among the forums that I'm on, it's that it seems that participation has dropped off. Perhaps I'm wrong, but There's a lot of folks that seem to just go straight to the associated Facebook pages. Those pages are sometimes helpful for the DIYer, but usually there's a lot of bad info and very few individuals that are genuinely knowledgeable. I was guilty of ignoring the forums for awhile but I have tried to come back to them regularly...hoping others continue on here as well.
The forum will see an uptick in the future as these cars get older. There will be gurus who really know their stuff and people who have just bought them. The E39 is absolutely buzzing as are the E46 forums.
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Old 12-25-2019, 10:58 PM
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Iíve had my 535 now for 9 years and have it to my son the help from the members is greatly appreciated. I got stuck a couple of times and the forum helped me out immensely


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  #18  
Old 12-26-2019, 04:51 AM
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man, i wounder where i fit in in this chart lol

The only reason i help is because ive seen good people get burned... This more of a Repent moment for me.. (*although ive never screwed anyone for anything)

Im the type that gives the last piece of food, gives away things that ive worked for.. Not because i want to prove something, but because at the end of the day doing the right thing makes you feel better inside and lets me sleep with a clean heart,

there is only a few of us

merry Christmas guys
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Old 12-26-2019, 04:52 AM
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I think i had started a thread on the e39 about who you are... like get to know one another type thing..

some people dont want to communicate... I ended up making some good friends here..

a bunch of guys have my phone number, and some members ive even met at there homes
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Old 12-26-2019, 11:51 AM
audiophool audiophool is offline
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Originally Posted by Burning2nd View Post
man, i wounder where i fit in in this chart lol

The only reason i help is because ive seen good people get burned... This more of a Repent moment for me.. (*although ive never screwed anyone for anything)

Im the type that gives the last piece of food, gives away things that ive worked for.. Not because i want to prove something, but because at the end of the day doing the right thing makes you feel better inside and lets me sleep with a clean heart,

there is only a few of us

merry Christmas guys
And we all appreciate the input you give!
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2019, 02:39 PM
drumbeat drumbeat is offline
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I'm a big fan of doing things myself and fixing what I can. Forums like this are invaluable in giving me the information I need as most people on here have done the job or can suggest the better solutions. I just recently purchased a low mileage 2008 E60 535i and I'm looking forward to keeping it for many years to come. I've had a few Volvo's and recently a 500SL so I'm not afraid to dive into deeper waters. Actually, I find some of these cars smart and not that hard to work on. Yes, I know there are difficult jobs and you can find them on a Chevy truck too, but everything can be fixed or replaced with time and skill. I'm not looking to put a label on people who post, I just want honesty, along with a healthy dose of humor and sarcasm, and point me in the right direction to help me with the repair. Youtube is helpful but I like the technical side and proper jargon to lead me. Thanks in advance to helping the newbie!
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2019, 02:46 PM
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lol i got cha covered
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