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  #1  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:52 PM
BradATL BradATL is offline
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Current incentives

Any predictions on whether the current November incentives (loyalty, finance and leasing) will stay the same, go away, or get better in December?

I'm trying to figure out whether to order this month or wait until December? I'd rather wait if the incentives will stay the same or get better.
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'11 528i: black sapphire, black Dakota, premium pkg. Sold 2014.

'05 X5 4.4i: Kalahari beige, truffle brown Dakota, premium pkg, sport pkg, 19" wheels. Sold 2011.

'04 M3: silver-gray, 6-spd manual, slick roof, cinnamon Nappa, alum trim. Sold 2005.
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:46 PM
Sonny184 Sonny184 is offline
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There is a $2000 finance incentive for the X5 until December 2. Vehicle must be ordered or purchased by that date. One never knows, but that could be extended.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:33 PM
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Jon Shafer Jon Shafer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradATL View Post
Any predictions on whether the current November incentives (loyalty, finance and leasing) will stay the same, go away, or get better in December?

I'm trying to figure out whether to order this month or wait until December? I'd rather wait if the incentives will stay the same or get better.
I would suggest waiting. Black Friday>December is the final push (empirically speaking).
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Old 11-15-2019, 07:45 PM
BradATL BradATL is offline
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Thanks Jon!
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'17 X5 50i: Mineral white, ivory & black Nappa, DHP, 20" M wheels, M performance black kidney grilles.

'14 X5 sDrive 35i: xLine, imperial blue, mocha Nappa, premium pkg, 20" wheels, dynamic dampers. Sold 2017.

'11 528i: black sapphire, black Dakota, premium pkg. Sold 2014.

'05 X5 4.4i: Kalahari beige, truffle brown Dakota, premium pkg, sport pkg, 19" wheels. Sold 2011.

'04 M3: silver-gray, 6-spd manual, slick roof, cinnamon Nappa, alum trim. Sold 2005.
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:29 AM
CTSoxFan CTSoxFan is offline
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BMW lets you lock your incentives in for 90 days (on west coast, 60 on east) so you can order now under the current incentives and if the program gets better in December use that program. (I don't believe this has changed in the past few months).

That said, you may be able to get a better deal by waiting until BF or December as the dealer may have more motivation to move metal to hit sales goals, but there is no guarantee of that.
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CTSoxFan View Post
BMW lets you lock your incentives in for 90 days (on west coast, 60 on east) so you can order now under the current incentives and if the program gets better in December use that program. (I don't believe this has changed in the past few months).

That said, you may be able to get a better deal by waiting until BF or December as the dealer may have more motivation to move metal to hit sales goals, but there is no guarantee of that.

December Sales Support programs now in play, and they look good (and strong).

Now is a fantastic time to be a BMW buyer...

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Last edited by Jon Shafer; 12-03-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2019, 09:50 PM
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dkreidel dkreidel is offline
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Signed docs for a 2020 X3 M40i today; incentives improved on 12/3 and are about as good as I've seen in many, many years. Really good time to buy a X3 M40 folks!

Stackable credits included finance, loyalty and if you're eligible; End of Hunger event Probably others like College Grad too.
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Last edited by dkreidel; 12-04-2019 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:48 PM
bbr1 bbr1 is offline
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Can you quantify what the improvement on 12/3 was? I'm planning on signing for an X5 40i this weekend.

Thanks!
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:26 PM
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I didn't pay attention to lease incentives as I'm purchasing, but on 12/2 the finance credit for taking on at least $7,500 loan with FS was $2,500. On 12/3 the finance credit jumped to $4,000 on a 2020 X3 M40. APR remained the same, as did loyalty and the ability to stack the End of Hunger event credit. If you do have an event code for End to Hunger, you might keep that quiet until you hammer your best deal, as I think the dealer splits some of the cost with NA APR + loyalty + End of Hunger = $6,500 through 1/2/20 on a '20 X3 M40i. At least one SoCal dealer is adding another $1,000 credit on Saturday 12/7/19 *only*

Most dealers seem quite willing to discount deep on X3 M40 right now; throw in another $6,500 discount from FS/NA makes for a sweet deal
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Last edited by dkreidel; 12-05-2019 at 03:35 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2019, 08:16 PM
bbr1 bbr1 is offline
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Thanks. Sounds like quite the deal. Enjoy it in good health!
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreidel View Post
I didn't pay attention to lease incentives as I'm purchasing, but on 12/2 the finance credit for taking on at least $7,500 loan with FS was $2,500. On 12/3 the finance credit jumped to $4,000 on a 2020 X3 M40. APR remained the same, as did loyalty and the ability to stack the End of Hunger event credit. If you do have an event code for End to Hunger, you might keep that quiet until you hammer your best deal, as I think the dealer splits some of the cost with NA APR + loyalty + End of Hunger = $6,500 through 1/2/20 on a '20 X3 M40i. At least one SoCal dealer is adding another $1,000 credit on Saturday 12/7/19 *only*

Most dealers seem quite willing to discount deep on X3 M40 right now; throw in another $6,500 discount from FS/NA makes for a sweet deal

Yes, it appears that this is a thing nowadays. Don't tell your CA about holding an OL code until after negotiating.




Not to question you specifically Dick (I hope you know that love you) it is a curveball, actually a knuckleball to employ this strategy. It does as a matter of fact cost the dealer money to participate in DRIVE events credits (half the face value), so in effect you are blindsiding somebody trying to help. Of course it is always your job as buyer to get the very best deal/lowest price. I fully respect that. I just always hope that customers are as up front and transparent as they expect their CA to be. Good-faith/fair-dealing goes both ways hopefully. Knowingly/willingly/purposefully withholding a material piece of information makes for some very uncomfortable moments for both buyers and sellers.


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Last edited by Jon Shafer; 12-06-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bbr1 View Post
Can you quantify what the improvement on 12/3 was? I'm planning on signing for an X5 40i this weekend.

Thanks!

I don't think there were any enhancements for X5 anywhere. X5 is super-hot in the marketplace as always, no extra juice needed to burn the fire bright.
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:39 AM
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Jon and I talked through this offline, as I pride myself on transparency and never playing "gotcha" in business, in personal relationships...or even buying a car. It's a personal choice; there's no right or wrong. In thinking more about this conundrum, I conclude BMW NA holds most of the responsibility for buyers and dealers playing hide'em. BMW dealers ran ads for the Event for Hunger, stating something to the effect of "negotiate your best deal, and then take another $1,000 off". I wish I had saved the ad and the e-mail invitation from a SocCal dealer - but it's lost to the ether.

But, at risk of beating the proverbial dead horse, here's the verbatim language from the e-mail from BMWNA, not the dealer, awarding me the online code for participation in the end of Hunger Driving Event >>

THANK YOU FOR REGISTERING.

Dear dkreidel,

On behalf of all of us at BMW of *****, thank you for attending our recent event. We hope you found test driving our range of BMW models rewarding. To show our appreciation, here's another reward: $1,000 Credit towards the lease or purchase of a new BMW.* Use this exclusive offer on a range of BMW models including the legendary 3 series, the agile X3, or even the BMW X5.

Hurry into BMW of ***** before January 31, 2019 to take advantage of this exclusive offer.

BMW IDENTIFICATION CODE: OLYYYYYY-XXXXXXXXXXXX

Compliments of
BMW of *****
12345 Any street
Anytown, XXXXX


All registered attendees will receive a $1,000 credit toward the purchase or lease of a new BMW.

* $1,000 offer valid on eligible new model year 2019 and 2020 vehicles in dealer stock delivered and retailed through January 31, 2020. Models excluded are 2019 X7, 8 Series (all variants), 2019 and 2020 M2 Competition, and M5 (all variants). This offer cannot be used for previously ordered or previously delivered vehicles and is only valid on delivery of in-stock vehicles. Offer valid to customers – and their family members residing within the same household, attending the BMW Drive to End Hunger Test Drive Event and registering on site between November 12, 2019 and November 18, 2019. Offer valid on final negotiated price and may be combined with other applicable BMW offers that are available at the time of purchase. Only one OL number per vehicle may be used. Offer valid towards purchase price of eligible vehicle. Only valid at participating dealers. ©2019 BMW of North America, LLC. The BMW name, model names and logo are registered trademarks.


I negotiated my deal with BMW of ***** before the End to Hunger Event was announced, and subsequently participated in the End to Hunger Event at BMW Of *****. BMW of ***** can't say they didn't know I attended, and the bolded text above states offer valid after final negotiated price. In full transparency, when stacking the rebates BMW of ***** told me they would have to contribute to the $1K, even though the Online Code e-mail is (likely intentionally) vague on who is "paying the tab" of $1k.

I agreed to split the $1k with the dealer, as I'd previously negotiated a skinny deal and wanted BMW of ***** to be as happy with me as I was with them. I didn't have to, it was a personal choice.

Jon, don't beat on buyers for playing the game with rules written by BMW NA. Do you think every CA at every dealer told End to Hunger participants the dealer had to contribute to the $1K rebate, so we're not going to offer you our very best negotiated price in case you drop an online code on us?

Why didn't NA only offer $500, and tell potential buyers to make your best deal and then take another $500 off? The answer, my friend, is marketing. $500 might not get a potential buyer off the couch and into the store, but ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS has a nice cachι and would have me stop doing something and make a conscious effort to get into the dealer mid-week to look at cars... and save a grand if I bought before 1/31/20

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Last edited by dkreidel; 12-07-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2019, 11:24 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Gotta jump in on this one.

Sequence in a car deal is:
Find/build desired vehicle
Agree on pre-incentive price
Confirm anything else of value that's due
Load in incentives that reduce the agreed-upon pre-incentive price.

If I produced a previously unmentioned OL code after the pre-incentive price had been nailed down and we were at the incentive stage of the negotiation and a dealer told me, truthfully, that half of the OL came out of the dealer's hide, if I were satisfied with the pre-incentive price, I wouldn't force the issue if the dealer was playing fair too.

I would also expect, in today's ever-changing incentives world, for the dealer to ask me, UP FRONT, if I had any other incentives or codes to build into the deal. If I were asked this question and I failed to respond honestly, I would expect the dealer to refuse to do business with me. But, if, after the deal was negotiated but prior to delivery, a new OL became available, then that's the problem. BMWNA shouldn't do that to dealers. If BMWNA does an event with an OL offer, they should pay for it all because there are deals in the works, especially on ordered cars, where it is reasonable for the customer to expect to realize full value for any new incentives that pop up prior to delivery.

Yet, I would also explain to the dealer that my bottom line price included my loading in all of the value of all of the incentives. And then the honest dealer would tell me that the skinny pre-incentive price was his lowest gross and anything that took from that gross couldn't be accommodated. I would then decide if I would do the deal without the dealer's required portion of the OL. Nobody's blindsiding anybody. It's a transparent negotiation. If I hold firm and want all the OL $, then the dealer can choose to dip into holdback or tell me he can't do the deal. All the cards on the table, everybody has a choice.

I just did one where the dealer bent over backwards to get me a custom build and said, from the beginning, this deal needed to be $500 over invoice minus any factory-funded incentives. Take it or leave it. We took the deal. $500 more than I had hoped to pay. The dealer earned the business. He got it. And then, right when my car hit the VDC a secret squirrel incentive popped up for an extra grand, all factory-funded, so I received that (which required the dealer to do some additional paperwork for me) and, as a result, my final deal was better than originally agreed to and the dealer held all his gross!!

But, from my perspective, the meta-issue is the way manufacturers do the trunk money and incentive game. That's where the trouble starts. Stair steps, dealership performance benchmarks, and all the rest create distrust, open doors for deception by all parties, including customers, and just make things more difficult. And how many CAs know exactly how any specific retail deal is impacting their dealer's monthly or quarterly or annual bonus status?? Dealers often don't know until the books for the selling period are closed. Insanity!!

We all understand that selling a new product that loses substantial value the moment it's driven off the lot is a challenge. I mean, who in their right mind would pay sixty grand for something that five minutes later is worth 55 grand??? Anyone who buys a new car is entering this game. We all do it, eyes wide open because we want that new shiny object.

The problem is, if BMW reduced the MSRP to cover the front-end instant depreciation and made a $60K MSRP a $55K MSRP, the cars would still drop the moment they were driven off the lot. Race to the bottom where nobody wins.

So we play the games... hopefully with dignity

Last edited by 1968BMW2800; 12-07-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:41 AM
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dkreidel dkreidel is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
Gotta jump in on this one.

Sequence in a car deal is:
Find/build desired vehicle
Agree on pre-incentive price
Confirm anything else of value that's due
Load in incentives that reduce the agreed-upon pre-incentive price.

But, if, after the deal was negotiated but prior to delivery, a new OL became available, then that's the problem. BMWNA shouldn't do that to dealers. If BMWNA does an event with an OL offer, they should pay for it all because there are deals in the works, especially on ordered cars, where it is reasonable for the customer to expect to realize full value for any new incentives that pop up prior to delivery.

So we play the games... hopefully with dignity
Well stated 2800
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:23 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Well stated 2800
Thank you.

Back in 2012 we attended a Jaguar event and in the swag bags were "make your best deal on a new Jaguar and then use this certificate to take an extra $1,500 off of your negotiated price," or words to that effect.

A few months later we entered into an insane, last-day-of-the-quarter deal on a new Jag. After all the incentives and dealer accommodations were loaded in we were, literally, tens of thousands back of invoice. The GM came into the room to finalize the deal and told us he had a waiting list of people willing to pay over MSRP on the hot new Range Rover and if he could do our deal on the slow-moving Jag, plus the other deals we could see were going down with great intensity all over the showroom, his allocation of the coveted Range Rovers would increase. He said he would lose $ on our deal but make it up and then some on the Range Rovers. But we had to close that day.

Oh Happy Day! Then I whipped out my $1,500 event certificate...

The GM pulls out a memo from Jaguar Central 'splaining that the $1,500 event certificate can't be stacked with the other offers already loaded into our deal. I say, "fine, but where does it say that on this shiny certificate that says make your best deal and then throw this baby in on top?"

The GM agrees and says he doesn't want to give me false hope because they've already had deals charged back for this issue. And the GM said he had already thrown in more than he had to close our deal so, no, there were not 1,500 more dollars for him to add. I asked the GM, if it were his deal, who would he contact? The GM actually grinned and said, "I'd call this guy." And he gave me the contact info for the VP in charge of somethingorother at Jag.

One pleasant phone conversation and about two weeks later we received a "courtesy accommodation" check for $1,500 from Jaguar USA.

We play the game, hopefully with dignity. But we play hard.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:09 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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My MY13 F30 was purchased with a $1000 TeamUSA OL, plus $750 loyalty, on a $500 below invoice deal, in Oct 2012(8 months since start of US F30 delivery).

My recollection is that most OLs state "Offer valid on final negotiated price", and local President's folks seldom balk about using them with "invoice below incentives" deals.

These President's folks are leaned on a lot in their dealers to hit daily/weekly/monthly/quarterly/yearly crawl charts, so maybe they have enough clouts to take these OLs in stride.

Last edited by namelessman; 12-07-2019 at 01:10 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2019, 01:46 PM
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dkreidel dkreidel is offline
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I suspect the dealer's angst with these pop-up OL's is proportional to how far into AVP the negotiated deal is.
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Last edited by dkreidel; 12-07-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:08 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by dkreidel View Post
I suspect the dealer's angst with these pop-up OL's is proportional to how far into AVP the negotiated deal is.
Local dealers seldom touch AVPs. GSMs/GMs do monitor stair steps closely, and usually allocate parts of the stair steps as a piggy banks to close deals.

That's why the volume sales in dealers are critical, they move metal and have extra leeway.
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