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Notes about Focal IFBMW-S components speakers for front doors

15K views 49 replies 9 participants last post by  pdxway 
#1 · (Edited)
Finished installed the Focal IFBMW-S components speaker yesterday. Only had about 1 hour of listening and adjusting time. Initial impressions are:

*No more harsh high.
*More mid bass than oem fronts. I had to adjust down the gain for the 8" underfloor woofers as I don't need to play the 8" higher than normal to compensate for OEM speakers lack of mid.
*Songs feel more "live".

Note about installation:
*As one reviewer said, fit for F30 is just too tight and would hit the windows without a spacer. Instead of using a spacer, I used two layers of Dynamat to reduce mounting depth.
*If using Dynamat, make sure that you press it down nicely. A small part of the mat's aluminum top was touching the passenger door's mid's speaker terminal and cause the mid to loss sound. It took me a couple hours to figure that out, after taking doors apart a few times, checking wires connections, etc.

Cost:
$490. Better than USA regular price of ~$650, but still higher than in Europe. Special order with local authorized dealer. That was the best price I could find during Cyber Monday sales and I got the local dealer to match the online price.

By the way, my setup before this is similar to this thread: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=732603&highlight=.

I had JL amp and sub and was using OEM speakers. The sound was clean and loud, but the OEM fronts were still not good enough. A bit too harsh for me when turn up high.

Totally, including the JL amp and sub, I spent ~$1800, including parts and labor (dynamat and front speakers were done by me, thus if using professional installer, your price may be higher. Or if you do everything yourself, you will spend a few hundreds less than $1800).

I might upgrade the 8" woofers later, but for now I think I am done for at least a year. :D

May 29th, 2015's update:
My final setup:
*All OEM speakers and amp were disconnected.
*The only active speakers are Focal's components on the front doors and JL audio subwoofer 10W3v3-2 in a sealed box in the trunk. All powered by JL Audio XD700/5 amp.
*Focal is crossed at 120 Hz. JL audio subwoofer is crossed at 100 Hz.
*I listen mostly with the ski pass in the back seats open. The reason is to hear more bass notes without turning up the sub too high.
Compared to OEM Hifi setup:
Originally I got the Hifi setup. I also had a chance to listen to 2015's Hifi setup a month back. My setup definitely got better bass notes. Overall my setup is much cleaner and punchier at high volume. Still very happy with my setup.

Oct 19, 2015 update:
I closed up the ski pass in order to reduce road noise coming in from the ski pass.

I adjusted the crossover to 100 hz for the Focal and 80 Hz for the sub. I also adjusted the gains level for both until I am satisfied.

So far so good. Still liking my setup. Using 100 Hz is kind of at the door limit now. Once in a while, I can hear some rattles coming from door when playing certain bass tunes.
 

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#3 ·
Thanks! It is an improvement over the OEM speakers for sure. Overall, for me, with the JL amp, JL sub, and Focal front, it is a big step up from the OEM Hifi setup. I can now listen to many different type of songs that I can't bear listening with OEM setup before.

But, the system as a whole is still missing something (as compared to my home setup). I now think the weak point is the OEM 8" woofers. Or may be I need dsp that could finely eq the system. Will observe the system a bit longer and may be do something about it sometimes next year. :D
 
#4 ·
I'd think your sound stage is much improved and at this point if you have a dedicated and properly powered sub setup, which it seems you do, the under seat subs are probably acting as drowned out or muddled mid bass. Assumptions based on prior experiences and system set ups, seems your observations line up. Regardless the sound deadening probably made a marked improvement as well. :thumbup:
 
#5 ·
Thanks for sharing your experience. :thumbup:

Yes, sound stage improved. Sound deadening helped stop some frequencies resonance I observed before.

I agree with your observation. I think the OEM under seat subs are muddling up the mid bass. Some bass strings in Jazz and Blues do not sound that natural to me and I think those frequencies are handled mostly by the under seat subs.

Upgrading the under seat subs will be my next upgrade step. That will need to wait a little. $1800 within a few weeks is a bit much already. :D
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the suggestions. Channels 3 and 4 of JL Audio 700/5v2 are powering the 8" subs. Those are bandpassed from 80 to ~175hz. I will play with the band pass freq and gain tomorrow. Will see if doing bandpass from 80 to 150 hz would help a little.
 
#10 ·
Based on my tests, at least for 2013 f30, doors do not have enough depth. Spacer or in my case, two layers of dynamat is needed to place between the door and speaker. Using just one layer of dynamat, the window had a difficult time moving up, the magnet was rubbing against the window.
 
#20 ·
I started out without the trunk sub. The JL amp alone with the OEM speakers already can play real loud and clean. But I still missed that sub hit and got a JL trunk sub within a week. Before this car, I always let the professional upgrade my system and I have never opened a door panel before, let alone open the trunk panels. I bet it will take me all day to figure that out and to finish dynamat the trunk area.

Will update in about 2 weeks. :)
 
#21 ·
Removed the trunk panels today to apply dynamat. However, could not really find good areas to apply. Ended up applied 3 sq ft of dynamat and gave up after that. :( So, the gas cap rattles are still there when the trunk sub hits hard.

I took the opportunity to remove signals to the back doors and power just the fronts. Now I am able to lower front's doors high pass from 200 hz to 150 hz and still get clean sound. By doing so, I limit the weakest link (the OEM underseats sub) to play a very limited freq range from around 120 to 150 hz. The rest of low freq are handled by the trunk sub. I still like getting the ski pass down to get more details notes from the trunks sub.

Finally I have power, clarity, and details in my music. Pretty happy. :D
 
#22 ·
After checking more, found that my crossover settings would cause sub localization.

I adjusted more and now it is less localized. The underseats subs distort too easily, thus had to keep the gain low. Also I overlapped the crossover to reduce sub localization. Attached is my amp setting.
 

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#25 · (Edited)
Btw, attached is the freq chart with 3 different captures.

Green line is for the OEM Hifi setup. Really poor response below 400 hz.

Purple line is for OEM front doors, back doors, OEM underseats' subs, plus trunk sub, powered by JL Audio XD700/5v2 amp. The dash speaker was disconnected. It sounded good and had better bass punch, but the high was too harsh (when listening at 100+ db ) and it was lacking details.

Red line is with Focal fronts, OEM underseats' subs, and trunk sub, power by same JL amp. The dash and back doors speakers were disconnected. It is not looking smooth either. Seem to have a bump in 2k and 8k hz area. But it got better details and not harsh when turned up high (+100 db). Amp settings (see post 22) were different than the settings when captured the purple line.
 

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#26 ·
pdxway;8787334Red line is with Focal fronts said:
Have you tried reversing polarity of the front door tweeters?
It seems your tweeter polarity connection is not optimum for your combination of crossover point and tweeter to midrange distance.
Your crossover point is likely around 4KHz and the boost you see at 2KHz and 8KHz isvery typical behavour (boost on octove below and above x-over points) when tweeter polarity connection is not correct.
Note that the correct tweeter polarity is dependent on distance of tweeter and midrange (and to some degree off-axis position of listener) and may not match manufacturer polarity connection.
Also make sure that microphone is placed as close to listener's ear position.
Not placing microphone correctly can also cause the frequency boost response you see.
 
#27 ·
Yes, now it makes sense. Indeed, per Crutchfield.com, the crossover is "in-line crossovers (4,000 Hz @ 18 dB per octave)". Thanks for the explanation!

Unfortunately, the tweeter's connector that connect to the crossover can only connect in one way due to the shape of the connector, I don't think I could change polarity without cutting wire. I also measured in multiple locations next to the head and all show similar bumps. :(

I now wonder if I should cut the wire and reconnect them....
 
#28 ·
Yes, it now makes sense.
This has third-order crossover (18db) which makes polarity missmatch effect worse.
Factory croossover is first order (6db) one which is more tolerable to tweeter offset placement.
Keep in mind that proper polarity connection is dependent on distance between tweeter and midrange and listener position.
In reality you will be looking at setting polarity conenction that will give you best compromise.
Wavelength for 4KH is about 3.4" so you will want tweeter offset (distance between tweeter's center and midrange'center) at this value or multiple of it or keep it within 1/4th wavelenth (0.85").
The ideal setting is to have no offset and this set gives you this option as coaxial setup.
I had this issue on my previous 128i's setup.
I set polarity based on listening (easy to determine with 2nd or 3rd order crossover).
However I still noticed some anormalities from some listening angles (too little treble response, peaky midrange, etc).
My current car does not have tweeter on sail piece and I decided to use coaxial approach,
My previous MB Quart setup could also be converted to coaxial mount but tweeter will hit speaker grill so I had to buy a new set of coaxial speakers.
I couldn't be happier with my current setup. There is absolutely no audible off-axis anormalities with my current setup.
Attached is picture of speaker I've used.
I bought adapters from F30 forum member.
 

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#30 ·
Since this setup is my Christmas gift, I decided to check more before Christmas. :D

I checked just left and just right speakers and found similar bump in 2k hz area. There is less bump in 8k hz area. I then checked the songs I typically listen to and RTA showed 2k hz is not even showing up much. So, I will let it go for now.

While doing this check, I decided to perform check for underseat subs. I found that it added too much in 150hz area and not helping much in other freqs. Just turn up a little the gain would cause muddy bass. I finally gave up on it and decided to turn the gain all the way down and set both the high pass and low pass at 120hz. Then I set the trunk sub low pass up to 120hz. Surprisingly, the bass is the cleanest I have heard so far and sub localization is basically not there.

Attached is my final settings for today. Thanks all for the suggestions and comments. Have a Merry Christmas!
 

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#31 ·
I assume there is a little or no smoothing on that chart. Yes significant boost you know the goal for most is a flat response right? The bottom line is a car is a difficult audio environment and HK does a good job with it I think mostly because of better components. Again the high frequencies are easy. My Beats Studios sound like my home theater at the high end but play some Imagine Dragons and no comparison.
 
#32 ·
Gary,
The charts all got 1/12 smoothing.
Yes, the goal is "perceived" flatness. Human sensitivity is much lower in sub bass area. It can be as much as 10 db difference between hearing 120hz vs 60hz. Thus the house curve for sub bass region.

I have no doubt HK is superior to Hifi. But based on what others said, HK is not good enough for bass heavy music. Thus I am going with after market trunk subwoofer.
 
#33 ·
I have no doubt HK is superior to Hifi. But based on what others said, HK is not good enough for bass heavy music. Thus I am going with after market trunk subwoofer.
I would say more based on what YOU said but that is fine. It is the old Reference Sound vs. Preference Sound debate. You lean more towards Preference and like I said that is fine. My only counter to that is most people find Reference pleasing. 10dB is a huge amount. Passengers in your car, well, hopefully they like your Preference.
 
#34 ·
Well, simply compare Hifi, HK, and my system at 100db and you might say differently about reference vs preferred.

Haha, I can't turn it loud with passengers, especially with my wife next to me. :D

But at moderate volume and listening to classical music, my wife said it sounds really good. But she would say the same for OEM HiFi setup anyway. :rofl:
 
#36 ·
Update: Still feel the underseat woofers muddle up the sound. Completely disconnected those today and only run the Focal fronts and JL sub. Sound cleaner now. Not missing the OEM underseat woofers one bit.

Lorde Pure Heroine sounds great. Both the vocal and the bass sounded the best yet in my car.
 
#38 · (Edited)
You must be missing your morning coffee. Read again and you should see I mentioned "JL sub". :D

My JL Audio trunk subwoofer (10W3v3) can actually output below 20Hz during my tests. It is powered by JL audio amplifier's that can output 300W RMS to the sub. So, please tell me what bass sound am I missing? :rolleyes:

Also, I am not low pass the sub to 200Hz. It was low passed at 120Hz. The Focal fronts can play down to 85HZ and I high pass it at 120Hz. So far there is not much of sub localization issue yet.

What I am doing is replacing the poor quality Hifi OEM speakers/amp combo (a lot worse than HK system quality) with high quality third party speakers + amp.

Like I said before, you are welcome to travel across country to Oregon to listen. :D
 
#39 ·
Yes missed the part about the trunk sub.. wait still don't see it.

I was in Portland last year around the rose festival and before some kind of naked run. Loved Deschutes and the elk burgers and the farmers market Sat morning. A bit taken aback about stepping around the homeless on the sidewalk and the metal and tattoos about every girl. Mt. Hood in June -

 
#41 ·
FOCAL IBUS 2.1 and ifbmw

Hey guys, just bought a focal integration kit and an IBUS 2.1 (the one without the tweeters) and I'm waiting for it to arrive...

Have any of you installed one of these and how was the result of the sound quality and fit...
What can you tell me about the fit of the IBUS underneath the seat or anywhere it could fit good?

Do I use the module to amplify the original sound speakers (the rear ones) and also the focal ones?

I have a 320i F30 bimmer

Thanks a lot!
 
#44 ·
Hey guys, just bought a focal integration kit and an IBUS 2.1 (the one without the tweeters) and I'm waiting for it to arrive...

Have any of you installed one of these and how was the result of the sound quality and fit...
What can you tell me about the fit of the IBUS underneath the seat or anywhere it could fit good?

Do I use the module to amplify the original sound speakers (the rear ones) and also the focal ones?

I have a 320i F30 bimmer

Thanks a lot!
Hi Algabr,

Sorry, no experience.

You might get more responses if you start your own thread. Good luck!
 
#45 ·
Hey pdxway. Just to follow up, how do you like it now, after a little more time, with the trunk sub and no under seats hooked up? I replaced my front stage with a set of Rainbow components last night powered by the JL XD600/6 and now I'm not positive how I want to proceed. I'm choosing between buying new under seats or putting a 10" JL (W1) in the rear (I've got a wagon). With my current amp if I do add a sub in the rear I have to eliminate either the factory 8's or the rears, and despite popular opinion on here I kind of like having the rears and if I do keep them hooked up I'll upgrade them as well. Thanks.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Hi Martinblair,

I am still loving my setup. I would say if you like good sub bass, get the JL sub.

If I am in your shoes, assuming we have similar HiFi OEM setup to start with, I would get the front components crossed at 120hz (assuming your rainbow can go that low), back factory speakers crossed at 200 hz, or upgraded back speakers at 120 hz, by pass the underseat subs, use JL 10 inch sub for 120hz and down. You can then play with the crossover points and gain to further adjust the sound to your liking.

If your rainbow can't go low, then consider upgrade your underseat subs.

Do note that if you wish to go low and loud for your front components, you should consider something like dynamat.

Good luck!
 
#47 ·
IFBMW-S rattles and wiring!

Hi pdxway,

i just installed the same speakers as you. I dynamat-ed around the speaker but nothing else.

I no have buzz / rattle when the bass hits. I think the culprit is the wires that came with the speakers. I find them too long! How did you secure them on the F30?

I was also wondering if you put dynamat elsewhere on the door? any help you can give would be appreciated.

Regards,

Carmo
 
#48 ·
Hi Carmo,

Are you powering them with external amp? If so, what is your crossover? I have my crossover at ~100hz and sometimes I do hear a little rattle for certain song. Most of the time, no rattle at all.

I don‘t really remember how I secured the wires. I believe I simply make sure I pull the wire tight , make sure no slack inside the door frame, then put the wire under the sticky black foam on the metal frame so it will not move.

I put pieces of dynamat all over the door, both on the metal door and the door shell.
 
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