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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:06 PM
dodadnules dodadnules is offline
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Sudden Rough Idle/Miss

When I started my 328i leaving for lunch today, it's running very rough. I thought it might be just at idle so, I drove a couple miles home. The miss or whatever is going on, continued at speeds and particularly while accelerating. The car ran like a top this morning and it's entire life previously.

Any thoughts? What's odd to me is that it happened so abruptly. I must note the gas is lower than I normally let it get. I usually fill it, with 93 octane, as soon as the light comes on. I've driven it a little while after this time and it's telling me I've got 29 miles left so, I figure about a gallon of gas. I wonder if there could be that much water in the fuel tank such that I'm running into it. Seems unlikely but, you never know.

Any and all insights are appreciated.

Oh ya, after running roughly for maybe 10 seconds or so, the "Service Engine Soon" light came on. So, it knows something is wrong but, giving no indication as to what it is.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:26 PM
mrothwell mrothwell is offline
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Sounds like a bad coil pack.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2019, 09:14 PM
pidge1114 pidge1114 is offline
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Rough idle? SES light?

Bad coil pack. Get a code reader and find out the cylinder and replace. New coils are $30 and takes a half hour to do.
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  #4  
Old 06-20-2019, 06:39 AM
dodadnules dodadnules is offline
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Thanks to all. I did a little research online and called the dealer. Agreed everything points to an ignition coil. So, I ordered a full set of 6 for $140 on Amazon. They are the Bosch OE parts. I also ordered 6 OE Bosch platinum plugs. If I'm taking it apart to fix a bad coil, I may as well replace them all and the plugs while I'm in there. I wouldn't want to drop another coil at a distance from home. The car is coming up on 90K miles.
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2019, 08:28 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodadnules View Post
Thanks to all. I did a little research online and called the dealer. Agreed everything points to an ignition coil. So, I ordered a full set of 6 for $140 on Amazon. They are the Bosch OE parts. I also ordered 6 OE Bosch platinum plugs. If I'm taking it apart to fix a bad coil, I may as well replace them all and the plugs while I'm in there. I wouldn't want to drop another coil at a distance from home. The car is coming up on 90K miles.
Sounds like you probably have (1) one or more "misfire" fault codes, and/or (2) an Injector shut-down fault code saved in DME memory. While that is the most likely type of fault code you will find, there MAY be others. ANY time the SES light comes on, there is/are Fault Code(s) saved in DME Memory, even if the light later goes OFF on its own.

Any generic P-code reader can connect to DME and read any of those P-codes. If you don't have access to a Scan Tool, just go to the nearest Advance Auto or Autozone and get someone there to read ALL codes (FREE). Take your camera and take a photo of each screen on the scan tool showing a code or Freeze Frame Data if they will read that too. It is ALWAYS good practice to scan for codes BEFORE you do any work on the car, as it's easy to mess something up when you disconnect or remove things, and you want to be able to identify any NEW FAULTS that may appear after you think you have properly re-assembled things.

Reason codes are important is that there are MANY things that can cause "misfire" codes, from bad coil, old plugs, oil in plug well damaging coil boot, loose connector, ground wire loose, wiring fault in coil wiring, injector connectors & wiring, etc., and while you are removing things, you should be carefully inspecting EVERYTHING related to the misfiring cylinder.

Keep in mind that in E9x models, a "misfire" fault code is NOT saved based upon an electrical circuit measurement, but rather is based upon a slight, momentary reduction in crankshaft speed that the DME computes to relate to reduced power on power stroke of a particular cylinder (as compared to cylinders immediately BEFORE & AFTER that cylinder in the firing order.

You can replace ONE coil with a replacement of the same brand & part#, such as Bosch 0221504470 OEM coil on my 2007 328xi N52KP engine, with NO adverse issues, which I have personally confirmed on mine after changing ALL Bosch Platinum plugs and One Coil, using INPA "Laufunruhe" or "Rough Running" evaluation, which is more accurate than anything you can feel (or think you feel ;-). When you remove the plugs, I would suggest that you measure the plug gaps, and report your findings. On mine, the original .040" plug gap (Bosch plugs come "pre-gapped" to that value "in the box") had enlarged to .055" to .060" with use, and THAT was the cause of my misfire at high RPM (ONLY occurred near 6,000 RPM).

So there is helpful data saved in DME Memory, and anyone trying to "fix" a "problem" should get ALL available clues concerning the Nature & Location of the "problem" -- that enhances the chances that you will actually "fix the problem."

Please let us know what you find,
George
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  #6  
Old 06-20-2019, 08:50 AM
pidge1114 pidge1114 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
You can replace ONE coil with a replacement of the same brand & part#, such as Bosch 0221504470 OEM coil on my 2007 328xi N52KP engine, with NO adverse issues, which I have personally confirmed on mine after changing ALL Bosch Platinum plugs and One Coil
This is a key point here, especially to the OP's mention about replacing all coils.

There is no harm in replacing only the coil for the misfire cylinder in question, as long as it's the same brand and part number. Coils aren't things that wear over time, they can last forever or they can just go...so replacing them all isn't going to guarantee you'll be problem free for another 50k miles.

Changing all the PLUGS is smart however...as they do wear over time. But if I bought a full set of coils, I'd likely keep them in my trunk in the event any more go, rather than replacing ones that technically aren't bad.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:55 AM
mrothwell mrothwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pidge1114 View Post

There is no harm in replacing only the coil for the misfire cylinder in question, as long as it's the same brand and part number. Coils aren't things that wear over time, they can last forever or they can just go...so replacing them all isn't going to guarantee you'll be problem free for another 50k miles.

They might not wear in the traditional sense, but they do tend to go bad around 80-100k. I did the one at a time approach with my old 2006 e90, ended up replacing all but one of them in a 20k span between 80 and 120k.

On my current E91, I just elected to swap them all out at the same time (at 100k when I got the car) instead of drawing it out over 2 years. Btw, when I did that, I noticed that two of the coils had already been replaced, so now Iíve got a couple spares.
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Old 06-20-2019, 12:12 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pidge1114 View Post
There is no harm in replacing only the coil for the misfire cylinder in question, as long as it's the same brand and part number. Coils aren't things that wear over time, they can last forever or they can just go...so replacing them all isn't going to guarantee you'll be problem free for another 50k miles.
FWIW, I also recommend replacing with same brand. That being said, I have mismatched ones in my 328i, which the DEALER installed (and said it's very common to have mismatched). Again, personally, I'd rather match them, but apparently it's "OK" to not

Here's my thread on my failed coil odyssey: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh....php?t=1293099
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Not even sure if -40 degrees is cold anymore ?
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  #9  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:01 PM
dodadnules dodadnules is offline
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Thanks all. I appreciate all of insights and advice. Understood the value in reading out the codes. I borrowed a BT OBD2 from a friend and downloaded an app. It should give me all the fault codes.

My plan is find out which cylinder is misfiring, swap the ignition coil, and see if the code follows it. This should confirm the issue as being the coil. I don't have to reassemble the car or drive it in order to do this.

With regard to changing just the presumed bad coil vs. all 6, I'm a bit of an old school ounce of prevention guy. Coils indeed deteriorate over time, heat, vibration, etc., and so, for the extra few bucks, I figure why not. This way, I don't have to worry about matching and I think the likelihood of a new coil failing before the 2nd original goes is pretty low. And, it's just time for new plugs. They were like $40. I'll double check their pre-gapping as well. Again, the old school in me has seen pre-gapped plugs that were way off.

Thanks again and I'll update after the install.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2019, 06:38 PM
Yukoner Yukoner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodadnules View Post
With regard to changing just the presumed bad coil vs. all 6, I'm a bit of an old school ounce of prevention guy. Coils indeed deteriorate over time, heat, vibration, etc., and so, for the extra few bucks, I figure why not. This way, I don't have to worry about matching and I think the likelihood of a new coil failing before the 2nd original goes is pretty low. And, it's just time for new plugs. They were like $40. I'll double check their pre-gapping as well. Again, the old school in me has seen pre-gapped plugs that were way off.

Thanks again and I'll update after the install.
If you're buying all 6 coils, buy the Delphi ones. Do NOT buy the Bosch ones. Bosch is what failed on me, and my BMW dealer (that I fully trust) told me that Bosch coils have a TSB on them for premature failure, and that they only use Delphi now. I have 5 Bosch coils and 1 Delphi on my 328i.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2019, 06:44 AM
dodadnules dodadnules is offline
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Thanks Yukoner but I had already ordered the OE Bosch coils. I installed them Saturday PM and it took a couple of hours. Only because I was going slow and carefully and had to run out and buy an E18 female torx socket. My set stopped at E16. Everything went smoothly and of course, the car runs like a top again. As I mentioned in a previous post, I replaced all 6 ignition coils and plugs while I was at it.

I'm really glad I did them all after what I found on cylinder 6. When I removed the plug on what I believe is cylinder 6, the one closest to the firewall, the center and ground electrodes on the spark plug were fused together with carbon maybe? It was a hard black material that complete spanned the gap. In all my years, I've never seen anything like it. And, the car ran just fine with this in place. When reading out the codes, only a misfire on cylinder 3 showed up. This was the one with the bad coil. Just to confirm, I disconnected the #3 ignition coil and the car ran exactly the same. Oh, the remaining 5 plugs had worn/burned away the electrodes such that the gap was around .050"-.055". The pre-gapped Bosch plugs were right at .040".

So, for whatever it's worth, this is an easy job and for less than $200 and a couple hours of time, a good preventative maintenance measure. Now, I just need to know how to clear the P0303 code. I'm going to see if I can use the same cheap OBD reader to clear it. I don't like looking at the "Service Engine Soon" light in the dash.
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2019, 08:50 AM
gbalthrop gbalthrop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodadnules View Post
...Now, I just need to know how to clear the P0303 code. I'm going to see if I can use the same cheap OBD reader to clear it. I don't like looking at the "Service Engine Soon" light in the dash.
Any generic OBD II P-code-reading Scan Tool I have seen made in the last few years has a Sub-function for Clearing or Deleting Fault Codes in the SAME Function that allows you to Read the Fault Codes (As opposed to Connecting, Reading Parameters, or Readiness Monitors).

Just have Ignition ON, but ENGINE OFF when you CLEAR the code(s).

George
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