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Old 09-11-2016, 06:53 PM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Differences between the 335 and 535.

Hello everyone,

After doing a lot of research I decided that I’m looking to get a 2009 or similar year BMW 335 or 535 with at least the Sport Package. However I need your help, experience, and knowledge to help me figure out which one is going to be best for me.

The 535 by dimensions really isn’t that much larger than the 335, so size doesn’t matter at this point to me. I am more concerned about the performance and maintenance cost differences of each.

So here are my questions:

1. For the 335 and the 535 with the auto transmission and RWD, does the Sport Package add the same things for the 335 and the 535? Such as the paddle shifters, stiffer suspension, wider tires, better steering, sport steering wheel, and sports seats? So in other words, will they handle the same or very similar?

2. Does the M Sport Package for both the 335 and 535 only change the visual aspects of the car? Is there any performance advantages the M Sport package offers over the regular Sport Package?

3. Do both have the active suspension that pushes against the car during corners?

4. Do both have the 6 speed ZF Sport Auto Transmission? (I believe that this transmission delivers faster shifts)

5. Is there any tuning advantages/disadvantages with the 335 over the 535 or vice versa?

6. Any idea as to how much putting OEM Cold Weather Package and or Heated Seats afterwards would cost? I’ll be in winter weather for 4 month out of the year.

7. Of the 335 or 535, will one cost more to maintain and keep than the other?

8. Before purchasing, should I be concerned about the HPFP, overheating, or valve cover gasket leak? Or have those issues been mostly resolved now?

9. How much does an extended warranty cost and is it worth it? If so is there another place to get an extended warranty that is better/cheaper than what BMW offers?
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:07 PM
wilt wilt is offline
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2011 specs:
  • 335i: 3593 lbs., final drive ratio 3.46:1
  • 535i: 4068 lbs., final drive ratio 3.08:1

The 535i weighs 475 lbs more, and it is geared higher (lower revs same speed) so it is much more of a 'cruiser' to the 335i 'racer'. BMW performance specs show the 335i quicker to 60mph by about 0.3 sec. and both are electronically limited to same top speed.

Last edited by wilt; 09-11-2016 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:21 PM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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I'm specifically looking at a 2009 535 RWD at the moment, and with my research I've found it's only 3660 lbs. Comparatively for the same year the 2009 335 is 3594 lbs, so only about a 65lbs difference at least in this specific year model.

Is there an advantage to the gearing ratio of the 335 to the 535?
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:00 PM
Porando Porando is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
I'm specifically looking at a 2009 535 RWD at the moment, and with my research I've found it's only 3660 lbs. Comparatively for the same year the 2009 335 is 3594 lbs, so only about a 65lbs difference at least in this specific year model.

Is there an advantage to the gearing ratio of the 335 to the 535?
Did you drive both of these vehicles in settings as you require? If not , I would suggest you do and see which one you like better.
I had E60 545i sport with all possible features and currently E90 335i with sport suspension. Two different cars. They were not exactly same year and not 2009 but there is not much suspension difference between different years in these models.
Since E60 545 had 4.4l engine and sport suspension - in terms of power both felt similar but in terms of handling and feel - totally different. E60 was a comfortable luxury sedan with sport tune, 335i is sport sedan - much more nimble and fun to drive but not as comfortable. If you attempt to toss 535 as you can 335 on the corner - you likely to rollover.
Wife loved riding in E60 as passenger but hated 335i until I replaced RFT to Michelin PSS AND shocks to Koni FSD - otherwise sport setup made ride quire harsh. Still is not as comfortable as E60 but bearable from comfort point of view.

Last edited by Porando; 09-11-2016 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:45 PM
wilt wilt is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
Is there an advantage to the gearing ratio of the 335 to the 535?
3.46 vs. 3.08 is about 13% advantage in acceleration in any specific gear, even if the bodies were identical in weight. That is almost equivalent to being in 5th gear rather than 6th gear and trying to accelerate past someone.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
1. For the 335 and the 535 with the auto transmission and RWD, does the Sport Package add the same things for the 335 and the 535? Such as the paddle shifters, stiffer suspension, wider tires, better steering, sport steering wheel, and sports seats? So in other words, will they handle the same or very similar?

2. Does the M Sport Package for both the 335 and 535 only change the visual aspects of the car? Is there any performance advantages the M Sport package offers over the regular Sport Package?

3. Do both have the active suspension that pushes against the car during corners?

4. Do both have the 6 speed ZF Sport Auto Transmission? (I believe that this transmission delivers faster shifts)

5. Is there any tuning advantages/disadvantages with the 335 over the 535 or vice versa?

6. Any idea as to how much putting OEM Cold Weather Package and or Heated Seats afterwards would cost? I'll be in winter weather for 4 month out of the year.

7. Of the 335 or 535, will one cost more to maintain and keep than the other?

8. Before purchasing, should I be concerned about the HPFP, overheating, or valve cover gasket leak? Or have those issues been mostly resolved now?

9. How much does an extended warranty cost and is it worth it? If so is there another place to get an extended warranty that is better/cheaper than what BMW offers?
  1. The Sport suspension is firmer than the base for each model, but is not identical across models (same as base). Ranked from most cushy to most responsive, the order would be roughly 535 base, 335 base, 535 Sport, 335 Sport.
  2. For the 335, M Sport is an appearance package on top of the Sport package. Not sure on the 535 of that vintage but I believe it was the same.
  3. No, Active Roll Stabilization was never available on the 3er.
  4. Not sure but I believe yes.
  5. Pass.
  6. Cost-prohibitive, by which I mean, effectively impossible. If you need these features, buy a car that has them.
  7. The powertrains are similar, they are both BMWs...many common maintenance costs will be similar. However, older cars never forget what they cost when they were new. The 5er is more expensive than the 3er; expect the upkeep to follow suit (somewhat) over the long haul.
  8. HPFP - resolved, providing a particular car has no open recalls for it; overheating, not unless something breaks; valve cover gaskets will all leak if you wait long enough.
  9. Extended warranties are designed to be profitable for the warranty company, else they wouldn't exist. Only you know how comfortable you are with the risk of eating a major repair vs. paying for coverage you might never use.
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Last edited by Zeichen311; 09-11-2016 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wilt View Post
2011 specs:
  • 335i: 3593 lbs., final drive ratio 3.46:1
  • 535i: 4068 lbs., final drive ratio 3.08:1

The 535i weighs 475 lbs more, and it is geared higher (lower revs same speed) so it is much more of a 'cruiser' to the 335i 'racer'.
I had a 528i loaner last week. It was the first time in ages that I'd driven a 5-series (probably since I drove a friend's E39 around the turn of the century). The thing felt like a 1970s-era boat compared to my IS. I'd only get the 535i if I were mainly interested in floating down the highway with only the occasional desire for power and handling. An executive cruiser is exactly what it is.
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:39 AM
CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Originally Posted by James57 View Post
I had a 528i loaner last week. It was the first time in ages that I'd driven a 5-series (probably since I drove a friend's E39 around the turn of the century). The thing felt like a 1970s-era boat compared to my IS. I'd only get the 535i if I were mainly interested in floating down the highway with only the occasional desire for power and handling. An executive cruiser is exactly what it is.

There ya go. The two models living in different worlds, OP should present his psychological profile if he wants our input re: Which Car Is Better For Me?

Otherwise how would we know?
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wilt View Post
2011 specs:
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by James57 View Post
I had a 528i loaner last week. ... An executive cruiser is exactly what it is.
The OP is interested in 2009 models, which was the E60 platform for the 5 Series. Both of you are talking about the F10 platform, which is an entirely different beast to the E60 and as noted, much more isolated than both the E60 and E90.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:19 AM
The Other Tom The Other Tom is offline
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I think the 09 535 has go flat tires and a spare tire, while the 09 335 has RFT (no spare). Just something else to think about
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:42 AM
Boland01 Boland01 is offline
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We've got a 2010 535ix, a 2008 335i coupe E92 with 19" sport suspension 6 speed manual and a 2007 E92 coupe 18" sport suspension auto. Not exactly what your asking about but in the general ballpark. Comparing the 335i 2007 to the 535ix the 535 is and drivers larger. Doesn't take the turns as well, feels heavier and is more of a cruiser. That's why on that car I just have a JB4 and DCI and that's it.

The 2007 coupe with the 18" sport suspension is a smaller car on the inside and outside and drives like it. The rear seat room is small. With a JB4, DCI, catless downpipes and big FMIC it is also much faster. Both are great cars so it kind of comes down to what your intended purpose and needs for the car is.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:19 AM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porando View Post
Did you drive both of these vehicles in settings as you require? If not , I would suggest you do and see which one you like better.
I had E60 545i sport with all possible features and currently E90 335i with sport suspension. Two different cars. They were not exactly same year and not 2009 but there is not much suspension difference between different years in these models.
Since E60 545 had 4.4l engine and sport suspension - in terms of power both felt similar but in terms of handling and feel - totally different. E60 was a comfortable luxury sedan with sport tune, 335i is sport sedan - much more nimble and fun to drive but not as comfortable. If you attempt to toss 535 as you can 335 on the corner - you likely to rollover.
Wife loved riding in E60 as passenger but hated 335i until I replaced RFT to Michelin PSS AND shocks to Koni FSD - otherwise sport setup made ride quire harsh. Still is not as comfortable as E60 but bearable from comfort point of view.
Just to help clarify, I'm not set on a 2009, it's just that from the research I've done that year or newer seems to be a good year for reliability and the 2009 335 look better than the earlier years in my opinion. However, if the right car came along at the right price I'd take it.

I did drive both, however I should probably do so again with the exact options I would get (hard to find here).

Good to know the sport suspension is not as good on the 535 vs the 335, however I do wonder if the active suspension on the 535 makes up a difference?
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:21 AM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Originally Posted by wilt View Post
3.46 vs. 3.08 is about 13% advantage in acceleration in any specific gear, even if the bodies were identical in weight. That is almost equivalent to being in 5th gear rather than 6th gear and trying to accelerate past someone.
So basically because the 335 has a better gearing ratio it accelerates quicker? Makes sense.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:33 AM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
  1. The Sport suspension is firmer than the base for each model, but is not identical across models (same as base). Ranked from most cushy to most responsive, the order would be roughly 535 base, 335 base, 535 Sport, 335 Sport.
  2. For the 335, M Sport is an appearance package on top of the Sport package. Not sure on the 535 of that vintage but I believe it was the same.
  3. No, Active Roll Stabilization was never available on the 3er.
  4. Not sure but I believe yes.
  5. Pass.
  6. Cost-prohibitive, by which I mean, effectively impossible. If you need these features, buy a car that has them.
  7. The powertrains are similar, they are both BMWs...many common maintenance costs will be similar. However, older cars never forget what they cost when they were new. The 5er is more expensive than the 3er; expect the upkeep to follow suit (somewhat) over the long haul.
  8. HPFP - resolved, providing a particular car has no open recalls for it; overheating, not unless something breaks; valve cover gaskets will all leak if you wait long enough.
  9. Extended warranties are designed to be profitable for the warranty company, else they wouldn't exist. Only you know how comfortable you are with the risk of eating a major repair vs. paying for coverage you might never use.
Thanks for your in depth answer! helps a lot!

1. Ok so the 535 Sport is still pretty good, but the 335 is definitely going to be a better handling car.

2. So for both cars the M Sport is purely an appearance package? No performance advantages? Good to know.

3. Would the active roll stabilization help make the 535 perform better than the 335 even though the 335 doesn’t have it?

4. I know that the ZF auto transmission is only available in the 535 if you check that specific box for it upon purchase, and you can know the car has it if it has the “Sport” button just beneath the shifter. Anyone have any idea whether the 335 has this button and or transmission?

5. So tuning for both models is basically the same.

6. I know it would cost a lot more to add the cold weather package, and or heated seats afterward, but I want to know only because I have a friend that is selling his 335 without the cold weather package, but is willignto give me a deal that may be cheap enough to pay for the cold weather package, and or heated seats to be put in. Anyways, just wondering if anyone has an idea of the cost to add these afterward?

7. Alright, 5 series being more expensive to begin with makes sense it would be more to upkeep.

8. How can you tell whether the HPFP has been resolved on a specific car? Good to know the overheating issues have been resolved, it was my impression that these cars just run to hot, and adding a larger oil cooler was necessary at least in the past. Sounds like the valve cover gasket is just a problem all these cars have at some point.

9. I’ll have to look into the cost/benefit of the warranty more in depth myself it sounds like.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:54 AM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY DUE View Post
There ya go. The two models living in different worlds, OP should present his psychological profile if he wants our input re: Which Car Is Better For Me?

Otherwise how would we know?
I understand what you're saying, and obviously each person has her/her own preferences so let me help explain mine better.

I'm practical. I want a car to fit 4 people decently. Doesn't have to be the lap of luxury or have enormous amounts of leg room, but enough that a road trip wouldn't' be awful sitting in the back seats. In other words, with a 6' driver, could a 6' passenger ride in the seat behind the driver on a road trip comfortably? (again, doesn't need to have enormous amounts of leg room but enough to be comfortable enough)

I absolutely love a car that is fast and fun to drive! Now I know that the 535 because of weight and gearing ratio is slower, but perhaps not slower enough as to turn me off to it completely, hence I'm asking here to get opinions of people who have hopefully owned or driven both models that have the sport package to see which they like better.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:59 AM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boland01 View Post
We've got a 2010 535ix, a 2008 335i coupe E92 with 19" sport suspension 6 speed manual and a 2007 E92 coupe 18" sport suspension auto. Not exactly what your asking about but in the general ballpark. Comparing the 335i 2007 to the 535ix the 535 is and drivers larger. Doesn't take the turns as well, feels heavier and is more of a cruiser. That's why on that car I just have a JB4 and DCI and that's it.

The 2007 coupe with the 18" sport suspension is a smaller car on the inside and outside and drives like it. The rear seat room is small. With a JB4, DCI, catless downpipes and big FMIC it is also much faster. Both are great cars so it kind of comes down to what your intended purpose and needs for the car is.
That is a close comparison. Thanks for your reply. Does your 535ix have the sport suspension?
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:08 AM
bmwdriver005 bmwdriver005 is offline
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Also, I should mention that I'm coming from a 2006 Infiniti G35, and I have loved it! I'm looking for something different because:
The Infiniti is getting more miles on it and it's time for something new.
I want something faster! 6.3 seconds to 60 has been fun, but wanting an improvement.

Rear leg room on my G35 has been sufficient so hopping to get something similarly sized. From my research it seems like the G35 fits right in-between the 335 and 535 as far as size goes.
The Infiniti G35 has been bullet proof and has taken my abuse (driving it hard) wonderfully, and I have absolutely loved it, and the only reason I'm not getting a newer/faster G35/G37 is because the BMW with the 3.0 Twin Turbo has a much better modding capability for little $$$ comparatively. I get more power for $$$ as far as modding goes with the BMW than I do with the Infiniti.
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
5. So tuning for both models is basically the same.

6. I know it would cost a lot more to add the cold weather package, and or heated seats afterward, but I want to know only because I have a friend that is selling his 335 without the cold weather package, but is willignto give me a deal that may be cheap enough to pay for the cold weather package, and or heated seats to be put in. Anyways, just wondering if anyone has an idea of the cost to add these afterward?
5. Maybe, maybe not - I punted the question because I have no experience with the subject.

6. You misunderstood. It's not a question of expense, it's a matter of insane expense and impracticality. In the past, BMWs were built to accommodate retrofit of most available options even if the equipment was not factory-installed. Retrofits were mostly a simple matter of installing the hardware and perhaps activating it through software. For many years now, BMW has followed a practice of building cars with semi-custom wiring harnesses that support only those options factory-installed on that particular car.

The implication is that even if you buy the equipment to retrofit a desired option (e.g., heated seats and related switch gear), you may find that it's impossible to connect it to or in the car. The cost, effort and intricacy of retrofitting the requisite wiring harness to support the hardware is rarely worth the trouble. It's far wiser to just find a car already built with the options you simply must have.
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:40 PM
CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
I understand what you're saying, and obviously each person has her/her own preferences so let me help explain mine better.

I'm practical. I want a car to fit 4 people decently. Doesn't have to be the lap of luxury or have enormous amounts of leg room, but enough that a road trip wouldn't' be awful sitting in the back seats. In other words, with a 6' driver, could a 6' passenger ride in the seat behind the driver on a road trip comfortably? (again, doesn't need to have enormous amounts of leg room but enough to be comfortable enough)

I absolutely love a car that is fast and fun to drive! Now I know that the 535 because of weight and gearing ratio is slower, but perhaps not slower enough as to turn me off to it completely, hence I'm asking here to get opinions of people who have hopefully owned or driven both models that have the sport package to see which they like better.

Bear in mind: Driving fun is a very different thing for passengers than for driver. Ask any married man.

So. Passengers? 5 series.

Driver's car? 3 series. M Division, not M Sport.
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:04 AM
N55 RULES N55 RULES is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY DUE View Post
Bear in mind: Driving fun is a very different thing for passengers than for driver. Ask any married man.
So. Passengers? 5 series.

Driver's car? 3 series. M Division, not M Sport.
Completely Agree. I have a 3 series m sport. Blast to drive, but 95% of the time, it is just me. We never use my car for the family. I'm 6 feet, 1 inch; back seat is tight for my 6 year old and 9 year old. Do not get a BMW 3 series as a family car, much less put grownups back there.
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
I'm practical. I want a car to fit 4 people decently. Doesn't have to be the lap of luxury or have enormous amounts of leg room, but enough that a road trip wouldn't' be awful sitting in the back seats. In other words, with a 6' driver, could a 6' passenger ride in the seat behind the driver on a road trip comfortably? (again, doesn't need to have enormous amounts of leg room but enough to be comfortable enough)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdriver005 View Post
Also, I should mention that I'm coming from a 2006 Infiniti G35, and I have loved it! I'm looking for something different because:
The Infiniti is getting more miles on it and it's time for something new.
I want something faster! 6.3 seconds to 60 has been fun, but wanting an improvement.

Rear leg room on my G35 has been sufficient so hopping to get something similarly sized. From my research it seems like the G35 fits right in-between the 335 and 535 as far as size goes.
The Infiniti G35 has been bullet proof and has taken my abuse (driving it hard) wonderfully, and I have absolutely loved it, and the only reason I'm not getting a newer/faster G35/G37 is because the BMW with the 3.0 Twin Turbo has a much better modding capability for little $$$ comparatively. I get more power for $$$ as far as modding goes with the BMW than I do with the Infiniti.
Four people (presumably adults) decently? You definitely want a 535i. Although it's OK for children, no adult will be happy for long sitting in the back of a 335i.

If you want to mod, the E60 535i (through 2009) is your best bet because it has the N54 twin turbo engine, which has a huge mod support base and community (it continued in the 335is through 2013, and the Z4 through this year). You can easily tune that engine by plugging in an Android device into the OBDII port and running an Android app called MHD Flasher, and nothing more. However, you seem concerned that your 2006 G35 has gotten long in the tooth mileage wise, so you'd probably have to look long and hard for a 2009 (or earlier) E60 535i that has relatively low mileage.

If you go for the 2010 or later F10 535i, you'll have the N55 single twin-scroll turbo instead of the N54. While it certainly can be modded, the support base and community has not developed anywhere near the extent that the one for the N54 has. Tune-wise, you'd be pretty much limited to a JB4, which is a piggyback on your ECU (as opposed to a flash-only solution like the MHD).
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MPI charge pipe * Spec stage 3+ clutch * Wavetrac limited slip díff * M3 rear subframe bushings

Past loves: 2008 E92 335i 6MT * 2003 E46 330i 5MT * 2001 Boxster S 6MT


Last edited by James57; 09-13-2016 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:10 AM
wilt wilt is offline
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I had a 528i loaner last week. It was the first time in ages that I'd driven a 5-series (probably since I drove a friend's E39 around the turn of the century). The thing felt like a 1970s-era boat compared to my IS. I'd only get the 535i if I were mainly interested in floating down the highway with only the occasional desire for power and handling. An executive cruiser is exactly what it is.
I once had a job as General Manager of a small business, and a perk was a company car. I started with a 320i, and after a couple of years of good business performance I was offered a higher grade company car. I upgraded to a 528i. My conclusion after 2 years with each car was that I was a '3 Series' guy, I disliked the decrease in 'tossability' associated with the greater mass and size although I loved its power...what I lament even about today's 3 Series...as big and heavy as the 528i that I once had!
  • 528i (1981) was 2910 lb., 181.9" long, 66.9" wide, 55.7" tall, with 182hp it was 16 lb/hp
  • E30 325is (1987) was 2815 lb. 176.8" long, 64.8" wide, and 54.3" tall, with 168hp it has 16.7 lb/hp
  • E46 330i (2001) was 3153 lbs., 176" long, 68.5" wide, and 55.9" tall, with 231hp it has 13.6 lb/hp
  • E90 335i (2011) is 3593 lbs., 178.2" long, 71.5" wide, 55.9" tall, with 300hp it has 12 lb/hp
  • F30 335i is 3594 lbs., 182.5": long, 71.5" wide, 56.3" tall, with 300hp it has 12 lb/hp

Last edited by wilt; 09-13-2016 at 09:23 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2016, 06:48 PM
CALWATERBOY DUE CALWATERBOY DUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilt View Post
....after 2 years with each car was that I was a '3 Series' guy, I disliked the decrease in 'tossability' associated with the greater mass and size although I loved its power...what I lament even about today's 3 Series...as big and heavy as the 528i that I once had!

>Ahem<

Not a problem if you mod but a little....much smoother than stock with limits farther out that you're every likely to explore. The boost in ease of operation and driving confidence will exceed your most optimistic expectation....ain't gonna feel no way heavy....camber plates required.


.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY DUE; 09-15-2016 at 06:51 PM.
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2016, 07:38 PM
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Kamdog Kamdog is offline
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If you are going on a long trip, or will haul other people, the 5er is for you. When alone, it does get smaller when pressed, and it has long legs and more room than the numbers say. The room is very useable.

The 3er is always smaller, and gets even smaller and tossable when pressed. If you are not driving distances, and won't be doing 600 or 700 miles in a day, and don't need room for 4 adults, and luggage, the 3er is for you.

In neither car will a passenger be happy when you are tossing it around.
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2016, 10:28 PM
dasmako dasmako is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James57 View Post
I had a 528i loaner last week. It was the first time in ages that I'd driven a 5-series (probably since I drove a friend's E39 around the turn of the century). The thing felt like a 1970s-era boat compared to my IS. I'd only get the 535i if I were mainly interested in floating down the highway with only the occasional desire for power and handling. An executive cruiser is exactly what it is.
I have a 528i loaner right now and this is a good description (First time driving one). I have a 335is, and I usually have one passenger or none.
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