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  #1  
Old 11-29-2019, 09:19 AM
falison75 falison75 is offline
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2020 X3 30i vs 2017 X3 35i?

Hi,

Iím currently in a 2017 X3 xdrive 35i with a lease expiring in March of next year. Iím debating between the 2020 X3 30i and the 40i. I really only drive in the city, with maybe a couple road trips a year. Anyone out there gone from the 35i to the 30i and disappointed that they didnít go for the 40i?

The client advisor Iíve worked with over the past several years just left to go to another brand and Iím not really jiving with the dealers I have reached out to in my area. I feel like they just want to sell me the 40i and they wonít even offer me deals on the 30i at this point. Trying to figure out if I need the 40i.

Hereís one of the offers I received on the 40i.

Upgrade 4 months early
$350 disposition waived
It says Combined incentives result in agreed upon vehicle value of $57,902.

Thanks for reading
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2019, 10:06 AM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falison75 View Post
Hi,

Iím currently in a 2017 X3 xdrive 35i with a lease expiring in March of next year. Iím debating between the 2020 X3 30i and the 40i. I really only drive in the city, with maybe a couple road trips a year. Anyone out there gone from the 35i to the 30i and disappointed that they didnít go for the 40i?

The client advisor Iíve worked with over the past several years just left to go to another brand and Iím not really jiving with the dealers I have reached out to in my area. I feel like they just want to sell me the 40i and they wonít even offer me deals on the 30i at this point. Trying to figure out if I need the 40i.

Hereís one of the offers I received on the 40i.

Upgrade 4 months early
$350 disposition waived
It says Combined incentives result in agreed upon vehicle value of $57,902.

Thanks for reading
The only thing I can advise you on right now is to NOT do any sort of pull ahead for your car. There is no official pull ahead, so ANY offer of "absorbing your current remaining payments" is either the dealer paying for it, or you paying for it.

If the dealer is paying for it, they are doing so because they have the money to do so in your deal. There is no reason for a person to upgrade early unless its paid for by BMW FS and its currently not.

Dont plan on doing a thing until the end of your lease, not now.

On the topic, I have a 40i and never considered the 30i (actually its my wifes car). The 30i is fine... but I like speed / power. I always buy the 6 cylinder instead of the 4, etc.

One thing that tends to be true in my opinion is, whatever you drive feels "normal" to a person speed wise, and things faster than that feel fast, and things slower than that feel slow. You will need to drive the 30i and see what it feels like to you. If it feels slower, you will likely feel frustrated with it eventually.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2019, 11:01 AM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
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Mein Auto: 540i; 428 GC; 340i 6MT
What were your thoughts when you test drove the 4 cylinder 30 vs. the 6 cylinder 40? My wife has gone from 328 wagon to X1 28i to 428 GC and for her the 4 cyl is just fine. But like jj, I need that sublime inline 6.

jjrandorin normally gives very good advice. But I am going to question something he said. Early indications are that BMW will be having a really significant sales push in December; whether that applies to the X3 (which, like all SUV's, is selling well) remains to be seen. My wife's 428 GC rolls off lease in February, and we absolutely will be looking at replacing it in December. II expect the additional savings from the year-end program to more than offset the additional expense.

EDIT: I just read Jon Shafer's post on Black Friday Sales support. It appears BMWNA is subsidizing the X3 M40i, but not the X3 30i.
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Current BMW's:

2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic

Last edited by quackbury; 11-29-2019 at 11:05 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2019, 12:24 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Thanks for the compliment, quack. You also give excellent advice. Normally, when I am giving advice here, it is from the framework of a "novice" purchaser asking the question. I saw the note from @jon Shafer, and there appears to be some sales support for a few models based on what he is telling us. There are always "exceptions" to any advice, for sure. For some, if you are good at negotiating and run the numbers, the sale support might work out better than making those last few payments.

What I normally used to see (back when I was evaluating deals here helping people with them) was that when there was no pull ahead, the dealer was either openly moving those payments into the new deal, or burying them somewhere. All ok, since the person was asking to pull ahead when there was no official pull ahead.The payments were either "above the line" or "below the line" as it were, but the person was still paying for them, even if it was a "not as aggressive" deal on the new car".

Anyway, in your case, you know exactly what you are doing so I would not dare presume any sort of advice. A more complete answer from me I guess should have been "if you choose to move early, run the numbers and make sure you have a reason to do so". at 4 months out, the dealer is not getting a special buy out price from BMW on the car (that happens at 90 days out), so one would be selling the car to the dealer, not "turning it in" so to speak, so should take a look at it like any other sale to dealer situation.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2019, 12:53 PM
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greginchi greginchi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falison75 View Post
Hi,

Iím currently in a 2017 X3 xdrive 35i with a lease expiring in March of next year. Iím debating between the 2020 X3 30i and the 40i. I really only drive in the city, with maybe a couple road trips a year. Anyone out there gone from the 35i to the 30i and disappointed that they didnít go for the 40i?

The client advisor Iíve worked with over the past several years just left to go to another brand and Iím not really jiving with the dealers I have reached out to in my area. I feel like they just want to sell me the 40i and they wonít even offer me deals on the 30i at this point. Trying to figure out if I need the 40i.

Hereís one of the offers I received on the 40i.

Upgrade 4 months early
$350 disposition waived
It says Combined incentives result in agreed upon vehicle value of $57,902.

Thanks for reading
Don't forget suspension considerations and your local road conditions...I have an M3 and trading for 30 because most roads in city of Chicago not conducive to M suspensions...and yes you can get M adaptive suspension on 40 but I notice very little difference in settings on my M3...maybe on a track you could...I like my M3 but just tired of the jarring and noisy ride...having said that I will probably get another nice used M as additional car if I ever live somewhere with good roads again.
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2019, 12:58 PM
falison75 falison75 is offline
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Thanks for the tips! I've been a BMW customer since they rolled out the 330i. I've always ended up with a 6 cylinder. I haven't driven the 30i yet, I did test drive the 28i before I got the 35i I'm in now, and I wasn't a fan. I was hoping the 30i would have a little more pep than the 28i. It sounds like I need to go with my gut and order the 40i though. The nearest dealer is 2 hours away so I haven't been in to test drive yet.

I didn't realize the pull ahead wasn't an offer right now. I sort of figured the 4 waived payments were baked in somehow though. I asked the dealer that made the offer if we could the final sale closer to 55k since I want to order my car and it will take at least 6 weeks to take delivery, plus the one I want to order msrp was 62,795. The dealer said they couldn't get close and they couldn't make it work...

I have a different dealer that sent me a deal offering $25,920 as black book trade in on my current lease. Honestly I don't understand this since I don't own the car. How does it work if I look at it as a sale vs a trade in?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, my husband knows zero about cars or negotiations so I do all the dealing and research lol.
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:06 PM
greginchi's Avatar
greginchi greginchi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falison75 View Post
Thanks for the tips! I've been a BMW customer since they rolled out the 330i. I've always ended up with a 6 cylinder. I haven't driven the 30i yet, I did test drive the 28i before I got the 35i I'm in now, and I wasn't a fan. I was hoping the 30i would have a little more pep than the 28i. It sounds like I need to go with my gut and order the 40i though. The nearest dealer is 2 hours away so I haven't been in to test drive yet.

I didn't realize the pull ahead wasn't an offer right now. I sort of figured the 4 waived payments were baked in somehow though. I asked the dealer that made the offer if we could the final sale closer to 55k since I want to order my car and it will take at least 6 weeks to take delivery, plus the one I want to order msrp was 62,795. The dealer said they couldn't get close and they couldn't make it work...

I have a different dealer that sent me a deal offering $25,920 as black book trade in on my current lease. Honestly I don't understand this since I don't own the car. How does it work if I look at it as a sale vs a trade in?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, my husband knows zero about cars or negotiations so I do all the dealing and research lol.
30 engine is really no slouch...especially for small SUV...about 250 HP and ft lb torque.

See my other post...40 suspension in Ohio may be problematic.

There is always a payoff on a lease which you can get from BMW finance and you can compare to what the dealer is offering as trade to see how much you will owe. You really should just ride the lease out until the last month...if you find a dealer with a custom order spot available in the month you want it the car can be to you in a few weeks...make sure the scheduled production week you get is a few weeks before your lease ends.
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:08 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falison75 View Post
Thanks for the tips! I've been a BMW customer since they rolled out the 330i. I've always ended up with a 6 cylinder. I haven't driven the 30i yet, I did test drive the 28i before I got the 35i I'm in now, and I wasn't a fan. I was hoping the 30i would have a little more pep than the 28i. It sounds like I need to go with my gut and order the 40i though. The nearest dealer is 2 hours away so I haven't been in to test drive yet.

I didn't realize the pull ahead wasn't an offer right now. I sort of figured the 4 waived payments were baked in somehow though. I asked the dealer that made the offer if we could the final sale closer to 55k since I want to order my car and it will take at least 6 weeks to take delivery, plus the one I want to order msrp was 62,795. The dealer said they couldn't get close and they couldn't make it work...

I have a different dealer that sent me a deal offering $25,920 as black book trade in on my current lease. Honestly I don't understand this since I don't own the car. How does it work if I look at it as a sale vs a trade in?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, my husband knows zero about cars or negotiations so I do all the dealing and research lol.
Since you are more than 90 days out, you would be selling them the car instead of just turning it in. For simplicities sake, you should look at what your current residual value is on the car. If its more than 25,920 that this dealer is offering you, then you would be "negative" on the deal and still owe money on the current car even after you sell it to them.

Of course, they would just roll any negative equity into the new car. As an example ,if your residual value (remember its at the end of the lease) is 24k, and your payments are 500 each and you have 4 of them, you have 24k +2k left on your current deal (not withstanding any lease end charges etc).

So if you owe 26 and this dealer is offering you 25,920, you could probably get them to offer you 26 and be even. If you owed 28,920 and they offered you 25,920 you would owe 4k.

Its like trading in a car with negative equity. Thing is, you have your 4 payments or whatever left, and then you can walk away from the car. You will need to do some math to see if what you owe on the car now as a trade in is worth you selling it to them. Usually, BMW residuals are set so that the car is not actually worth the residual when you turn it in, so going that route normally has negative equity in most cases.

Anyway, sort of getting into the weeds here. the short version to estimate is take your residual value (how much your BMW account online says you can buy the car for at lease end), add the remaining payments and subtract the dealers offer above from it. that will tell you if selling the car to that dealer is worth it.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:22 PM
falison75 falison75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginchi View Post
30 engine is really no slouch...especially for small SUV...about 250 HP and ft lb torque.

See my other post...40 suspension in Ohio may be problematic.

There is always a payoff on a lease which you can get from BMW finance and you can compare to what the dealer is offering as trade to see how much you will owe. You really should just ride the lease out until the last month...if you find a dealer with a custom order spot available in the month you want it the car can be to you in a few weeks...make sure the scheduled production week you get is a few weeks before your lease ends.

Ohh yea, I know sometimes even 35i can be bumpy in sport mode. I hadnít really thought of that. Guess I just need to get up to Columbus and test drive them. You guys have convinced me to wait it out at least a little longer.
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Old 11-29-2019, 01:30 PM
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greginchi greginchi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falison75 View Post
Ohh yea, I know sometimes even 35i can be bumpy in sport mode. I hadn't really thought of that. Guess I just need to get up to Columbus and test drive them. You guys have convinced me to wait it out at least a little longer.
Unless you have DHP/DDC on your X3 sport mode only changes your tranny shifting characteristics...it has nothing to do with your ride/suspension.

So take what you think is 'bumpy' and multiply by 2 or 3 for suspension in M40i...subjective of course. I also opted for non RFT tires/spare as RFT are very stiff/noisy.

To each their own of course...I just think M suspension more suited for better climes/roads.

Last edited by greginchi; 11-29-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2019, 01:36 PM
falison75 falison75 is offline
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
Since you are more than 90 days out, you would be selling them the car instead of just turning it in. For simplicities sake, you should look at what your current residual value is on the car. If its more than 25,920 that this dealer is offering you, then you would be "negative" on the deal and still owe money on the current car even after you sell it to them.

Of course, they would just roll any negative equity into the new car. As an example ,if your residual value (remember its at the end of the lease) is 24k, and your payments are 500 each and you have 4 of them, you have 24k +2k left on your current deal (not withstanding any lease end charges etc).

So if you owe 26 and this dealer is offering you 25,920, you could probably get them to offer you 26 and be even. If you owed 28,920 and they offered you 25,920 you would owe 4k.

Its like trading in a car with negative equity. Thing is, you have your 4 payments or whatever left, and then you can walk away from the car. You will need to do some math to see if what you owe on the car now as a trade in is worth you selling it to them. Usually, BMW residuals are set so that the car is not actually worth the residual when you turn it in, so going that route normally has negative equity in most cases.

Anyway, sort of getting into the weeds here. the short version to estimate is take your residual value (how much your BMW account online says you can buy the car for at lease end), add the remaining payments and subtract the dealers offer above from it. that will tell you if selling the car to that dealer is worth it.
Got it, this makes sense. My residual is way more than the 26k offer so looks like I will be playing the waiting game.

Thanks again for the advice!
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Old 11-29-2019, 09:05 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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The number you want to be looking at isn't the residual, it's the payoff amount. You can find that - to the penny - on the MyBMW website.

Is there a CarMax near you? They will make you an offer on the car. You then compare that to your payoff quote, and can make an informed decision. (The dealer is in all probability low-balling you). Another resource is Carvanna. They will give you a purchase offer on line, from the comfort of your home.

A contrarian note: If you "only drive in the city, and a couple of road trips a year", do you really "need" a X3 M40i? The suspension won't be as punishing as the guy from Chitown inferred (the real M car is the X3M - confusing, huh?). But if you love the torque of the inline 6, there may be other, more attractive options. I'd consider the new X3 30e hybrid, the upcoming Mustang EV, an Audi eTron, a Jag iPace, and even a Tesla.
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Current BMW's:

2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2019, 02:23 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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The N55 engine in the 35i has about 300 lb-ft of peak torque. The B46 engine in the 30i has about 250 lb-ft of torque. You're rarely going to demand full torque or even 75% torque from either engine, unless you drive like a crazy monkeyazzduck.

The sixes have a satisfying bark, where the fours have an annoying drone. But, you're not going to hear the drone much unless the windows are down. The inherent smoothness (lack of vibration) of in-line sixes is duplicated by balance shafts in modern in-line fours.

If fuel economy is important, the 30i's have it. Frau Putzer's X3 xDrive 30i has got 23.9 MPG since new (16k miles), and that's with mostly in-town and Frau Putzer driving. When we go somewhere together, I drive unless I'm infirmed. I put the X3 in EcoPro, and I get anywhere from the high 20's to the high 30 MPG's. Our last two outings (suburban driving, light traffic, 15 to 30 miles) were just over 30 MPG. Last Saturday night we went into town for some tasty Mexican food and frozen adult beverages. Here's our MPG going over with a brisk tailwind, and the displayed OBC/TC MPG is accurate after it was adjusted (as proven by one of my spreadsheets... monkeyazzduck). Coming back, we made two stops and had a headwind. So, our MPG was only 30 MPG.

I'm satisfied enough by the X3 30i's performance that my 535i will eventually be replaced with a 330i. Shedding 500 pounds will make a 330i faster than my 535i.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2019, 07:13 AM
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greginchi greginchi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
The number you want to be looking at isn't the residual, it's the payoff amount. You can find that - to the penny - on the MyBMW website.

Is there a CarMax near you? They will make you an offer on the car. You then compare that to your payoff quote, and can make an informed decision. (The dealer is in all probability low-balling you). Another resource is Carvanna. They will give you a purchase offer on line, from the comfort of your home.

A contrarian note: If you "only drive in the city, and a couple of road trips a year", do you really "need" a X3 M40i? The suspension won't be as punishing as the guy from Chitown inferred (the real M car is the X3M - confusing, huh?). But if you love the torque of the inline 6, there may be other, more attractive options. I'd consider the new X3 30e hybrid, the upcoming Mustang EV, an Audi eTron, a Jag iPace, and even a Tesla.
Yeah, the thing with suspensions is subjective...M40 has some type of M suspension and X3M has another type...hard to really quantify differences...to each their own but I'm kind of over stiff suspensions on bad roads/potholes...if i was back in Cali or AZ I wouldn't hesitate to get 40...but here pleasure not worth pain.
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Old 11-30-2019, 07:43 AM
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greginchi greginchi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
The N55 engine in the 35i has about 300 lb-ft of peak torque. The B46 engine in the 30i has about 250 lb-ft of torque. You're rarely going to demand full torque or even 75% torque from either engine, unless you drive like a crazy monkeyazzduck.

The sixes have a satisfying bark, where the fours have an annoying drone. But, you're not going to hear the drone much unless the windows are down. The inherent smoothness (lack of vibration) of in-line sixes is duplicated by balance shafts in modern in-line fours.

If fuel economy is important, the 30i's have it. Frau Putzer's X3 xDrive 30i has got 23.9 MPG since new (16k miles), and that's with mostly in-town and Frau Putzer driving. When we go somewhere together, I drive unless I'm infirmed. I put the X3 in EcoPro, and I get anywhere from the high 20's to the high 30 MPG's. Our last two outings (suburban driving, light traffic, 15 to 30 miles) were just over 30 MPG. Last Saturday night we went into town for some tasty Mexican food and frozen adult beverages. Here's our MPG going over with a brisk tailwind, and the displayed OBC/TC MPG is accurate after it was adjusted (as proven by one of my spreadsheets... monkeyazzduck). Coming back, we made two stops and had a headwind. So, our MPG was only 30 MPG.

I'm satisfied enough by the X3 30i's performance that my 535i will eventually be replaced with a 330i. Shedding 500 pounds will make a 330i faster than my 535i.
Funny thing too is the 30 has a faster 0-60 than my first car...which was V8 IROC Z! Haha
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:40 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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There seem to be two discussions going on here. Both valuable.

1. What sort of configuration makes sense for OP? Test drives and research are required to answer this.

2. What to do with the current lease? As a rule, early terminations of leases rarely make good economic sense. As lease-end draws nearer, the payoff numbers can change. BMW Financial will offer a BMW dealer a dynamic pricing buy number which will be less than the retail customer payoff. BMW Financial often offers a slight discount from the residual if a customer wants to buy a car at lease end. And, as has been mentioned, third parties like Carmax have pricing down to a fine science and will make a very informed offer. There is always the ill-advised option to sell the car one's self or try to unload it through a lease swapping web site.

Only once in my many years of leasing did an opportunity to end a lease early work in my favor. For whatever market reasons, six months prior to lease end my Range Rover was worth more than the current payoff. I sold it back to the Range Rover dealer who cut me a check that covered the drive offs on a new MINI lease. Moral to that story is, though I got paid to turn in the Range Rover early... I gave it all back to the next car dealer. They always win with new car smell addicts like us!

So much new product on the horizon. With global auto sales slipping, there might be some great opportunities in the spring of 2020. Might be rewarding to finish out the lease.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:01 PM
falison75 falison75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
There seem to be two discussions going on here. Both valuable.

1. What sort of configuration makes sense for OP? Test drives and research are required to answer this.

2. What to do with the current lease? As a rule, early terminations of leases rarely make good economic sense. As lease-end draws nearer, the payoff numbers can change. BMW Financial will offer a BMW dealer a dynamic pricing buy number which will be less than the retail customer payoff. BMW Financial often offers a slight discount from the residual if a customer wants to buy a car at lease end. And, as has been mentioned, third parties like Carmax have pricing down to a fine science and will make a very informed offer. There is always the ill-advised option to sell the car one's self or try to unload it through a lease swapping web site.

Only once in my many years of leasing did an opportunity to end a lease early work in my favor. For whatever market reasons, six months prior to lease end my Range Rover was worth more than the current payoff. I sold it back to the Range Rover dealer who cut me a check that covered the drive offs on a new MINI lease. Moral to that story is, though I got paid to turn in the Range Rover early... I gave it all back to the next car dealer. They always win with new car smell addicts like us!

So much new product on the horizon. With global auto sales slipping, there might be some great opportunities in the spring of 2020. Might be rewarding to finish out the lease.
thanks for all the info! Iíve decided to wait it out until the lease is up in March. Do you know if there are dealers on this site that would be willing to ship the car? is that ever an option. Where I live, the closest dealers are in Charleston, WV, Columbus, OH, and Akron, OH. Charleston deals are never even close to what Akron and Columbus have offered in the past so I donít even shop them anymore. My old CA from Akron left to go to lexus this year; and Columbus told me they pretty much want me to do all the leg work finding the best deal, then they will match it, which seems a little lazy to me.
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