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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
Discussion of BMW's 4th generation E65/E66 7 Series flagship. The E65 generated much controversy, due to its radical styling and iDrive user difficulties. Nonetheless, the E65 broke records to become the best-selling 7-series iteration ever, especially after its 2005 facelift.

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  #351  
Old 10-30-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cigas4 View Post
Yes, "tapped" is correct word

Just removed small piece of shield on side of original cable to reach wire in center of cable and soldered mine there. Original cable is still in one piece
Oh okay . Did you get a no signal message in idrive TV menue if not done that way (tapping)?
Or did you only get an error in INPA without noticing any problems?

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  #352  
Old 10-30-2019, 08:00 AM
cigas4 cigas4 is offline
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Oh okay . Did you get a no signal message in idrive TV menue if not done that way (tapping)?
Or did you only get an error in INPA without noticing any problems?

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Both ways it worked the same in iDrive, no "no signal" messages.
Only got errors scanning car with INPA. I don't like errors there so decided to tap into original antenna.
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  #353  
Old 10-30-2019, 08:41 AM
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Both ways it worked the same in iDrive, no "no signal" messages.

Only got errors scanning car with INPA. I don't like errors there so decided to tap into original antenna.
Okay thanks, then that can't be the reason for my no signal message.

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  #354  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:12 PM
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I fixed the last error with my costume winkfp file for the MMI so now winkfp loads the file just fine without any error and are just waiting for me to push the start flash button
so now i'm prepairing everything for the flash, charging all batteries and hoping that none will run out whilst I'm flashing. and changing out my regular MMI for my experemental one.
not hoping for to much but still tense.
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  #355  
Old 10-31-2019, 11:54 PM
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Flashing stopped at 75% so now the MMI is most likely bricked

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  #356  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:10 AM
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After a software update and some trail and error I can now get the modulator to output to my TV without interruption. The software update made it so that I now can also output Dolby Digital (AC3) whis my tv picks up with some klipping and it can also output AAC which my TV can't recive so I don't have any hope of my car being able to either.



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  #357  
Old 01-11-2020, 05:14 AM
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After a very weird workaround when choosing the resolution, refreshrate and so on. I was able to get stable picture with sound, although with a huge delay. Now the next problem seems to be that the antenna has bad reception and breaks because of that instead. But here everything runs at 50Hz



And sound quality was pretty good. Ac3 sound did not work. I haven't tested AAC

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  #358  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:15 AM
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I have started work on an RGsB converter with the help of an IT specialist that also build costume car controllers and lighting systems.

Right now I'm leaning in that it will have one input from the VM/GPS which then is splitted with one signal going back to one output so the OEM screen doesn't loose any functionality. And the other signal is fed into an RGB to YpPbPr converter which is a much more common signal that you might know as Component. That is in turn output via normal RCA connectors.

And from this there exists commercial converters that can convert this to for instance HDMI and CVBS(composite)

I have begun sourcing information and components and making a circuit board to make this happen but I can't buy the OEM bmw connectors (only built on order) without it driving the cost up enormously so I will have to use some other connectors and hopefully make it work

This would mean that if you for instance only have tv/dvd/gps/NIVI in the front, this could make it so that those sources can be displayed on rear aftermarket screens at the sam time as the front. It would also make it so that is you have the rear entertainment 6" display that one could also be output to external screens. But bare in mind that the only thing that would be displayed via this output is; assist menu, GPS menu, TV/DVD(/NIVI from front) so everything except gps and assist menue would still have to be controlled via the oem screen.

This is merely a necessary firs step before I attempt to make the much much more complicated LVDS converter

What do you guys think?

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  #359  
Old 01-28-2020, 12:40 PM
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Work in progress on the RGB splitter + converter


And the convertion part taking shape

Last edited by vibbelito; 01-28-2020 at 02:37 PM.
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  #360  
Old 01-29-2020, 02:47 PM
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Hi,
i just stumbled across this thread and decided to give some input from what i know.
I'm currently trying to figure out how to connect my raspberry pi to my E91 CCC Display via HDMI. Since i wanted to run Android Auto on my CCC Screen i also needed a higher resolution than the standard 640x240 pixel. So i opted for a rare 1280x480 CCC High Resolution Screen with LED instead of CCFL Backlight.
To drive the display while still retaining the original CCC, i am currently designing my own circuit board which is close to being finished.
My board accepts HDMI and LVDS (CCC) inputs and can switch between the two via a pin header which is going to be controlled with the raspberry pi.

I know this is not exactly what you guys are trying to do but its pretty similar. So if you need some info let me know.
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  #361  
Old 01-29-2020, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enfive View Post
Hi,

i just stumbled across this thread and decided to give some input from what i know.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to connect my raspberry pi to my E91 CCC Display via HDMI. Since i wanted to run Android Auto on my CCC Screen i also needed a higher resolution than the standard 640x240 pixel. So i opted for a rare 1280x480 CCC High Resolution Screen with LED instead of CCFL Backlight.

To drive the display while still retaining the original CCC, i am currently designing my own circuit board which is close to being finished.

My board accepts HDMI and LVDS (CCC) inputs and can switch between the two via a pin header which is going to be controlled with the raspberry pi.



I know this is not exactly what you guys are trying to do but its pretty similar. So if you need some info let me know.
That is amazing, thank you for getting in touch. Then I have a few questions to you. First of, what do you know about the LVDS signal? Give me all the details and technical specs you can. Is it close to TMDS (hdmi) signal in its layout for example?

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Last edited by vibbelito; 01-29-2020 at 03:17 PM.
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  #362  
Old 01-29-2020, 03:16 PM
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BMW just describes it as digital rgb so that isn't really much to go on when trying to decide what to convert it to. If I should attempt to convert it to HDMI or perhaps analogue VGA.

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  #363  
Old 01-29-2020, 04:38 PM
enfive enfive is offline
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BMW uses an implementation of LVDS called FPD-Link. There are multiple versions of it. CCC uses FPD-Link I, CIC uses FPD-Link II and NBT uses FPD-Link II (but im not sure with NBT).
FPD-Link I has 8 cables on a 10-Pin connector. LVDS uses twisted pair cables.

The CCC has an 6-Bit (18Bit with all 3 Colors), 1 Channel LVDS signal with 2 cables for each color (RGB color with + and - for each) and 2 cables for the pixel clock (again + and -). 2 cables are not in use and are solely for reducing noice between the cables.

It's all a bit technical but google will explain most of it in more detail. Feel free to ask if you don't understand something.

PS: This page will explain FPD-Link and LVDS in more detail https://jared.geek.nz/2015/apr/driving-fpdlink-displays
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  #364  
Old 01-29-2020, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enfive View Post
BMW uses an implementation of LVDS called FPD-Link. There are multiple versions of it. CCC uses FPD-Link I, CIC uses FPD-Link II and NBT uses FPD-Link II (but im not sure with NBT).

FPD-Link I has 8 cables on a 10-Pin connector. LVDS uses twisted pair cables.



The CCC has an 6-Bit (18Bit with all 3 Colors), 1 Channel LVDS signal with 2 cables for each color (RGB color with + and - for each) and 2 cables for the pixel clock (again + and -). 2 cables are not in use and are solely for reducing noice between the cables.



It's all a bit technical but google will explain most of it in more detail. Feel free to ask if you don't understand something.



PS: This page will explain FPD-Link and LVDS in more detail https://jared.geek.nz/2015/apr/driving-fpdlink-displays
i can't believe I haven't stumbled across FPD-Link as the answer but now that I know what's actually sent over the LVDS cable maybe I'll have a higher chance to be able to convert it
What frequency is it using?

I am still newly woken while writing this so I'm sure ill have some more questions later but how are you solving the scaling of the signal from the CCC to a higher resolution?

Since if I decide to convert it to hdmi I would want it to be able to scale to the right resolution to fit

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Last edited by vibbelito; 01-30-2020 at 01:41 AM.
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  #365  
Old 01-30-2020, 02:13 AM
enfive enfive is offline
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Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
What frequency is it using?
Frequency must be 66MHz but im not entirely sure about that one. At least it accepts 20 to 66 MHz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vibbelito View Post
I am still newly woken while writing this so I'm sure ill have some more questions later but how are you solving the scaling of the signal from the CCC to a higher resolution?

Since if I decide to convert it to hdmi I would want it to be able to scale to the right resolution to fit
Im not scaling the original signal myself. The CCC High Resolution display from BMW has a built in scaler. But I'm not sure how it operates since it is a custom chip (ASIC) and there is no documentation about it whatsoever. I hope it will accept a 1280x480 Signal but it's going to be trial and error i guess. I pass the original CCC signal through. My Raspberry Pi will be sending a 1280x480 signal which will have no need of scaling.

These display have the panel of the CIC screens but are adapted to CCC. My guess is that BMW cancelled the order for the old displays but didn't have the new CIC system ready yet, so they used the new displays for a few weeks in 2008. They are pretty rare to find and most people don't really know they exist or what they are. Most don't even know they have them. Ypu can identify them by the metal backplate (instead of plastic). BMW itself don't even have most of the parts number of these displays in their system (3-series and 5-Series variants exists as far as i know).

Last edited by enfive; 01-30-2020 at 02:14 AM.
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  #366  
Old 01-30-2020, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enfive View Post
Frequency must be 66MHz but im not entirely sure about that one. At least it accepts 20 to 66 MHz.



Im not scaling the original signal myself. The CCC High Resolution display from BMW has a built in scaler. But I'm not sure how it operates since it is a custom chip (ASIC) and there is no documentation about it whatsoever. I hope it will accept a 1280x480 Signal but it's going to be trial and error i guess. I pass the original CCC signal through. My Raspberry Pi will be sending a 1280x480 signal which will have no need of scaling.

These display have the panel of the CIC screens but are adapted to CCC. My guess is that BMW cancelled the order for the old displays but didn't have the new CIC system ready yet, so they used the new displays for a few weeks in 2008. They are pretty rare to find and most people don't really know they exist or what they are. Most don't even know they have them. Ypu can identify them by the metal backplate (instead of plastic). BMW itself don't even have most of the parts number of these displays in their system (3-series and 5-Series variants exists as far as i know).
Cool, I had no idea the higher resolution screens existed, do you know what voltage the FPT-link use?

Also are you outputting FPT-link i (LVDS) signal From the raspberry pi?

I'm thinking of using an Arduino MKR Vidor 4000 (fpga) and inputting the LVDS FPT-link I and then outputting it via the existing hdmi port if I can't find any chip converters.


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  #367  
Old 01-30-2020, 03:25 AM
enfive enfive is offline
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LVDS has a voltage range from 0.3V to 3.6V. But you don't need to care about that since the LVDS transmitter would handle it.

My Raspberry Pi outputs a normal HDMI signal which I'm converting to LVDS via my own custom board. I'm not 100% if it works since it's only going into production soon.

There aren't any chips which can convert HDMI to LVDS directly (as far as i know) so I'm converting to TTL first and then TTL to LVDS. It's common practice to do so I've come to find.
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  #368  
Old 01-30-2020, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by enfive View Post
LVDS has a voltage range from 0.3V to 3.6V. But you don't need to care about that since the LVDS transmitter would handle it.



My Raspberry Pi outputs a normal HDMI signal which I'm converting to LVDS via my own custom board. I'm not 100% if it works since it's only going into production soon.



There aren't any chips which can convert HDMI to LVDS directly (as far as i know) so I'm converting to TTL first and then TTL to LVDS. It's common practice to do so I've come to find.
Then maybe i should convert to TTL first and then to hdmi or analog

I've been recommended this by TI.
LVDS signal--->*SN75LVDS82*--->*TFP410*--->TMDS signal.
But I'm a little worried about the edid and if it only converts the electrical specs of the signal or if it actually will convert the FPT-LINK into something a normal hdmi input would be able to make sense of. Since fpt structure the bits different from hdmi.
*


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  #369  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:47 AM
enfive enfive is offline
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As I want to convert HDMI -> LVDS my route is HDMI -> TFP401 -> SN75LVDS83B -> LVDS.
So its the opposite way.

The TFP401 will output a HDMI Signal which normal displays would understand. An EDID is only used if the inputting device needs to know which panel it will use and choose a resolution depending on that info.

What are you trying to connect to the LVDS signal exactly?
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  #370  
Old 01-30-2020, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by enfive View Post
As I want to convert HDMI -> LVDS my route is HDMI -> TFP401 -> SN75LVDS83B -> LVDS.

So its the opposite way.



The TFP401 will output a HDMI Signal which normal displays would understand. An EDID is only used if the inputting device needs to know which panel it will use and choose a resolution depending on that info.



What are you trying to connect to the LVDS signal exactly?
Oh wow, then these projects are more similar than expected
Do you think you could share your schematics?
You can send to my email: [email protected]
if you don't want to leak them on the internet (also probably not possible to send such files here) then I can just change the layout to fit these chips.

I thought that some display a no signal message if it doesn't sense the EDID and so on.

I'm trying to connect it to rear entertainment android monitors in the end that has a CVBS input (composite video).
Theis one specifically



All New 11.6 Inch Android 9.0 Car Headrest Monitor for BMW Back Seat Support WiFi 4K Touch Screen Video Hidden Bracket
https://a.aliexpress.com/_UbU96


But if I can convert it to hdmi it would be even better since many other headrest monitors use hdmi input and that would retain the original picture quality the best. But for my specific use case I need CVBS in the end but I could just connect the hdmi to an existing hdmi to AV adapter.

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  #371  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:10 AM
enfive enfive is offline
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I'm travelling right now but when im back home I think I can share the schematics with you.

So you want to mirror your CCC to the rear screens? Or some kind of TV input? The screens you plan on using have a resolution of 1920x1080p. I would take quite some scaling to output that resolution and it wouldn't really look good. Do I understand that correctly?

I don't know about that a missing EDID would effect the output in any way as long as you supply the right input. But it's only for the inputing device and just provides information to it via I2C. LVDS doesn't hav dedicated lanes for it so it would be pointless to use one. But since these aren't expensive at all you could just put it on anyway, just in case.
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  #372  
Old 01-30-2020, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by enfive View Post
I'm travelling right now but when im back home I think I can share the schematics with you.
Thanks, that would really help

Quote:

So you want to mirror your CCC to the rear screens? Or some kind of TV input? The screens you plan on using have a resolution of 1920x1080p. I would take quite some scaling to output that resolution and it wouldn't really look good. Do I understand that correctly?
Yeah basically. Or to be specific about my use case, I have a rear idrive system separate from the front with a tiny 6.5" display between the seats and that just looks very dated so I have bought these headrest monitors and are planning to remove that 6.5 inch screen altogether. But to do that and not lose any OEM functionality I have to convert the lvds to something I can input to those headrest monitors. I know the scaling will not look the best but I won't mind.

I am also talking with a youtuber that has a Rolls Royce that want to change his "idrive" screen to something aftermarket so he will also need this converter since it also use the same signal wiring, so i'm trying to help him out as well



Quote:
I don't know about that a missing EDID would effect the output in any way as long as you supply the right input. But it's only for the inputing device and just provides information to it via I2C. LVDS doesn't hav dedicated lanes for it so it would be pointless to use one. But since these aren't expensive at all you could just put it on anyway, just in case.
Okay I hope I won't need to use any of that then

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Last edited by vibbelito; 01-31-2020 at 12:54 AM. Reason: Added some things to clarify
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  #373  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:41 AM
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I'm hoping to be able to finish this before the Bimmers of Sweden meet this May

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