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E60 M5 (2006 - 2010)

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  #51  
Old 01-03-2007, 06:43 AM
Sully5486 Sully5486 is offline
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Originally Posted by sweylo View Post
Thank you James, my thoughts exactly. You guys really need to read the article before you start bashing on C&D. They basically relegated the M5 to last place status from a purely performance perspective, since this manual version is a complete letdown when compared with the SMG version. Its intrusive DSC significantly affected every performance measurement (0-60, 1/4 mile, lane change, skidpad, etc.) and basically killed any sort of enjoyment that one could get from taking this car to a racetrack. What a disappointment.
just to clarify i completely agree that the decision to offer a manual was a poor one and that from a purely objective perspective the numbers don't say "winner" (umm isn't rule #1 with high-rev, low-torque motors DONT reduce the number of gears? haha) i'm just ticked b/c i thought that C/D was focusing too much on enumbers and not enough on the driving experience...and the M5 is my absolute favorite so i'm being a sore loser
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  #52  
Old 01-03-2007, 07:00 AM
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Like Sweylo, SwaJames, and a couple others, I actually read the article. The intrusion of DSC took away the performance of the M5 in a dramatic fashion. That wasn't just numbers, it was a huge intrusion. Read the article.
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  #53  
Old 01-03-2007, 07:04 AM
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You have to consider who the magazine is writing to also. Besides how the test was done. That market is not us. I would bet that CD readers in general are not nearly as performance oriented as the members of this forum.

They want to hear about the Lexus and the Volvo and the Subaru as much as the BMW, maybe more.

My point is we are much more BMW oriented than CD's readers. And it's those people that CD is addressing.
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  #54  
Old 01-03-2007, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbscott View Post
Like Sweylo, SwaJames, and a couple others, I actually read the article. The intrusion of DSC took away the performance of the M5 in a dramatic fashion. That wasn't just numbers, it was a huge intrusion. Read the article.
relax i read the article i wasn't trying to start a fight just venting b/c this is the first time an M5 has finished last, and only the second time its failed to win a C/D comparo. thats tough to take haha

maybe i'm wrong about which car should've won but i stand by my views: despite being minus one gear, despite the immortal DSC, despite iDrive, i still say the M5 is the ultimate supersedan and nothing can touch it (however ill take the SMG please haha)

that said i definately miss the simplicity of the E39...big V8 with a manual gearbox and no nazi computers just pure power...the E60 is a much different beast and i can see how people are at first put off by its complexity. once the initial computer shock is gone tho people just can't get enough of it (case in point: Jeremy Clarkson) Motor Trend summed up the difference pretty well on their first drive check it out if u haven't already http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...cedes_benz_e55

well anyways i didn't mean to piss anybody off we're all bimmerphiles here and believe me the last thing i wanna be is that jerk who just argues with everyone and is always looking for a fight haha
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  #55  
Old 01-03-2007, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by franka View Post
You have to consider who the magazine is writing to also. Besides how the test was done. That market is not us. I would bet that CD readers in general are not nearly as performance oriented as the members of this forum.

They want to hear about the Lexus and the Volvo and the Subaru as much as the BMW, maybe more.

My point is we are much more BMW oriented than CD's readers. And it's those people that CD is addressing.
Also, magazines like C&D cannot pick the same car every time they do a review. They will alienate their customers. Depending on who is doing the review, any one of the three could come out on top.
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  #56  
Old 01-03-2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by gbelton View Post
I was not aware the '07 M5 had a 6MT. I am aware of the SMGIII tranny in the US.
Seen one last weekend...I wasn't aware either until then.



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Originally Posted by Bammered View Post
Can someone confirm or deny the loss of a DSC kill switch? Did the C&D guys hold the button for 10 seconds? If there is an ///M which cannot fully disengage DSC i will have lost faith in one of my favorite brands.
I sat in it at the international car show for about ten minutes and did not notice the DSC button that we all have.
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  #57  
Old 01-04-2007, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sully5486 View Post
maybe i'm wrong about which car should've won but i stand by my views: despite being minus one gear, despite the immortal DSC, despite iDrive, i still say the M5 is the ultimate supersedan and nothing can touch it (however ill take the SMG please haha)
Your posts seems to summarized the fanboy side - no matter how bad the M5 sucks, it would still be the best. Get real. The M5 is not an engaging drive if the the DSC cuts everytime you push it. For example, with my 330Ci on the track and the DSC engaged is a positively boring car because it can't be driven close to its limit. This kills my E60 M5 dreams and what killed C&D's love of the M5.

TO BMW: WTF? No DSC-off button on an M model? Just another example of how far the M brand has drifted from its pure roots. I await the X5M Diesel with baited breath.
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  #58  
Old 01-04-2007, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
Your posts seems to summarized the fanboy side - no matter how bad the M5 sucks, it would still be the best. Get real. The M5 is not an engaging drive if the the DSC cuts everytime you push it. For example, with my 330Ci on the track and the DSC engaged is a positively boring car because it can't be driven close to its limit. This kills my E60 M5 dreams and what killed C&D's love of the M5.

TO BMW: WTF? No DSC-off button on an M model? Just another example of how far the M brand has drifted from its pure roots. I await the X5M Diesel with baited breath.
I agree. Its drifted so far with all its electronic controls and complexity that I would have trouble buying one, even if I had plenty of cash. I want a real M5 that's fast and rides a bit stiff with lots of deletes not additions.

I would get the SMG though for increasing traffic congestion and for the fast and mostly the sure shifts guaranteeing no tranny and no ego damage. It's really an asset on the street more than the track because it allows you to be engaged with the traffic w/o monitoring the motor and tieing up one hand and many gray (brain) cells.
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  #59  
Old 01-04-2007, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
Your posts seems to summarized the fanboy side - no matter how bad the M5 sucks, it would still be the best. Get real. The M5 is not an engaging drive if the the DSC cuts everytime you push it. For example, with my 330Ci on the track and the DSC engaged is a positively boring car because it can't be driven close to its limit. This kills my E60 M5 dreams and what killed C&D's love of the M5.

TO BMW: WTF? No DSC-off button on an M model? Just another example of how far the M brand has drifted from its pure roots. I await the X5M Diesel with baited breath.
Im basing most of my arguments on the SMG model which I think everyone agrees is a more pure M car...however as much as I love the E60 I absolutely agree with you about M drifting from their roots. The fact that an inline-six cylinder is supposed to be a BMW trademark, and yet as of now there are no 6 cyl M cars worries me. Also the electronic suspensions and diffs aren't very bimmer-ish. And it's disturbing that the manual M5, the one thats supposed to be the most pure, is actually more obsessed with electronics. I think the E46 M3 and the E39 M5 were the last truely pure creations from the M division and I fear we'll never see anything like them again, but I hope I'm proved wrong.
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  #60  
Old 01-04-2007, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sully5486 View Post
Im basing most of my arguments on the SMG model which I think everyone agrees is a more pure M car...however as much as I love the E60 I absolutely agree with you about M drifting from their roots. The fact that an inline-six cylinder is supposed to be a BMW trademark, and yet as of now there are no 6 cyl M cars worries me. Also the electronic suspensions and diffs aren't very bimmer-ish. And it's disturbing that the manual M5, the one thats supposed to be the most pure, is actually more obsessed with electronics. I think the E46 M3 and the E39 M5 were the last truely pure creations from the M division and I fear we'll never see anything like them again, but I hope I'm proved wrong.
The only true M3 car left is the 6 cyl M coupe. Light, small, not a lot of gadgetry.
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  #61  
Old 01-04-2007, 11:09 AM
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The only true M3 car left is the 6 cyl M coupe. Light, small, not a lot of gadgetry.
err right forgot about that one too haha so true tho theres not even an SMG option
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  #62  
Old 01-04-2007, 12:42 PM
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Its my understanding that BMW is no longer selling new M3s. That's why BMW pulled out of road racing not too long ago. They are waiting for the new V8 M3 to hit the road before they spend any more money on road racing.

You can add that to the bashing too.
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  #63  
Old 01-28-2007, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck92103 View Post
It comes down to ones desires. All are fine automobiles. However, park an M6 convertible on the street next to an S6 and tell me which one draws more attention.
I see what you're saying: Bmw's are for people who like to show off and flaunt their cash, and Audi's are for true enthusiasts who know they have an amazing car and don't give a damn about what others think.
Touche my friend.

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  #64  
Old 01-28-2007, 09:48 PM
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I see what you're saying: Bmw's are for people who like to show off and flaunt their cash, and Audi's are for true enthusiasts who know they have an amazing car and don't give a damn about what others think.
Touche my friend.



Hahahahaha... surely you jest?

Man, haven't laughed that hard for a while.

Audi being an enthusiasts choice and no about the badge... ah overpriced V-dub owner say what?....

Oh, sh!t, the tears are coming out I'm laughing so hard.
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  #65  
Old 01-28-2007, 10:09 PM
Monizzle Monizzle is offline
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lol you say over priced V-dub as if it's a bad thing and you honestly think BMW's aren't overpriced? next your going to tell me a lambo is garbage because it's an overpriced Audi...now, i own both Audi and BMW's and I love both of them and also see the flaws and positives, and as of late, Audi is stepping it up and will soon replace BMW as "the drivers car". You'll see soon enough now being on a bimmer forum i'm not expecting to convince or win anyone over with what i'm saying, hell magazines can't even do that *cough* S6 first place with Motortrend *cough* and i'm sure i'll make plenty of enemies with all the fanboys, but that's fine (only time will tell). I'm expressing my view and I definitely don't expect anyone to see eye to eye with me but to honestly think the M5 was beaten by the MBZ and the Audi simply because of the iDrive is rather foolish. The same 6spd tranny that was mated to the E39 M5 that is also in the E60 and the lack of a 7th gear is what messed with what could have been a stellar car, not to mention the god damn DSC. I for one don't rely on what magazines say, I take what they say into consideration but I don't base my views off of other people's opinions. Everyone has their own taste. Some people like being flashy, some like subtlety, it all comes down to preference. I love the E60 M5 (SMG seems the way to go) and if it was priced a little better I would easily take it over the E63 and the S6, but at the same time the S6 is rather appealing at about 15k less and with a FSI Lambo V10...not to mention an amazing engine and exhaust sound. My opinion of course.
Sid Vicious ruled btw...
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  #66  
Old 01-28-2007, 10:37 PM
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........... and as of late, Audi is stepping it up and will soon replace BMW as "the drivers car". You'll see soon enough
I'll definitely believe that one when I see it. Don't get me wrong, Audis are nice cars, but in my experience their lower end models offer mediocre handling, in comparison with that of the BMW where "all" models sport and non-sport...........low priced to high priced models offer superior handling to that of their competition. Audi's true strengths lie in their S line and RS line (and most recently the all new Q7, just because it's so pretty ), and the buy in is $50k+ for their true driver's cars, in comparison to roughly $25k-$30k for a ultimate driving machine. Which one would your pocket prefer?
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  #67  
Old 01-28-2007, 10:57 PM
Monizzle Monizzle is offline
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Cars like the R8, RS 4, RS 6, newer S models are the ones i am referring to (the Q7 S-line and V12 TDI are pure sex btw ). i completely agree with you that BMW has had the advantage over Audi in the past (cost not included) in regards to handling and performance straight from the factory but the way things are going now, Audi has learned what they need to do and they are slowly implementing their plans into action. but let's not forget that cost is an issue and the price difference between audi and bmw is typically 3.5k for same class base models (audi being at the lower end of the price spectrum) and if the cost difference between audi and bmw remains the same (MBZ is another pricing planet), there is going to be some great competition and hopefully will yield even greater cars!
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  #68  
Old 02-01-2007, 02:41 PM
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Audi is stepping it up and will soon replace BMW as "the drivers car". You'll see soon enough
Okay...if that is the case, shut down Bimmerfest right away and close all dealerships and indie service places...stop printing all of the current BMW magazines, close BMW NA, fire all of the employees in Spartanburg, Dingolfing, MŁnchen, Regensburg, etc.....then tear down all the BMW buildings in MŁnchen, Spartanburg...Wait, let's not forget the Alpina factory in Buchloe!!!!

So then we can all drive insanely priced and complicated Audi and MerChrysler cars and we will all be happy little beavers knowing that the nasty, no longer fun to drive, incompetent, yucky and ugly BMWs are all gone!!!! WOO WOOOOOOO

When this happens, the writers at C&D will no longer have iDrive for whuppin up on....I wonder what they will do then...MB's COMAND System???

Cheers,
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  #69  
Old 02-01-2007, 03:42 PM
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As I said before, I don't think these reviews have any value..

I recently watched a German review (E63 AMG, Audi S6 and M5 SMG). The Mercedes won - O.K., new engine, was faster and more comfy suspension than the bimmer (if you like that on a sportscar..) but that's O.K.

They bashed the Audi during the review (too slow in comparison etc.). The only advantage it had was quattro AWD and a lower MSRP.

The BMW got a positive comment (they called it a REAL sportscar..)

So, first place was the Benz (I said O.K., acceptable and as expected), SECOND, THE AUDI (original comment "with just a SLIGHT advantage over the bimmer).

But you know what? They ranked it second because it is CHEAPER...

Now based on that, how would a Dodge Neon do compared to an S65 AMG? I guess the Dodge would win because it's cheaper, right?

I'm just curious why they didn't rank the Audi first - Benz costs even more than the Bimmer....
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  #70  
Old 02-04-2007, 09:31 PM
Monizzle Monizzle is offline
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^^believe it or not, this is fanboy logic. Price is always a factor as far as what you're getting for the money. As far as Wagners response to my earlier comment, if you read my whole post and not get butt-hurt over the first sentence you will see that I am not saying BMW's are or will be bad cars.
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:34 AM
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^^believe it or not, this is fanboy logic. Price is always a factor as far as what you're getting for the money. As far as Wagners response to my earlier comment, if you read my whole post and not get butt-hurt over the first sentence you will see that I am not saying BMW's are or will be bad cars.
Well, I simply didn't understand why they applied this price-rule to the BMW and Audi and left the Benz out. They clearly told their viewers that they consider the Benz the best car in the test, followed by the BMW. So why didn't they rank the cars accordingly?

Yes, the Audi is cheaper than the BMW but they made clear that it can't reach the BMW or Mercedes performance wise, so I don't agree these two cars are on the same level.

If you're saying the Audi is on the same level as the BMW, it should be on the same level as the Benz, too. And what about the price-difference to the Benz? Why was the price-advantage only important in comparison to the BMW? Sure, Benz is in a different price-league, but why? So first the testers are telling us they care for the price and rank one car over the other based on the MSRP to see who comes in third, but pick the winner based on performance, not on price? I'm not butt-hurt over the result of this review since I totally agree that the Mercedes is the best car in this review - I simply don't get why they have different CRITERIA when deciding over ranks 1/2 (performance) and 2/3 (price)...

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  #72  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:20 PM
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IS mercedes the BEST car in that review?? No -- just most expensive.
Im not biast to BMW BUT, the majority of true automotive enthusiasts would vote for the M5! Hands Down!
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  #73  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:46 PM
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Cars like the R8, RS 4, RS 6, newer S models are the ones i am referring to (the Q7 S-line and V12 TDI are pure sex btw ). i completely agree with you that BMW has had the advantage over Audi in the past (cost not included) in regards to handling and performance straight from the factory but the way things are going now, Audi has learned what they need to do and they are slowly implementing their plans into action. but let's not forget that cost is an issue and the price difference between audi and bmw is typically 3.5k for same class base models (audi being at the lower end of the price spectrum) and if the cost difference between audi and bmw remains the same (MBZ is another pricing planet), there is going to be some great competition and hopefully will yield even greater cars!
Mr touche' Price is determined by what the market will bear. The #1 reason Audi will always be priced below BMW (base to base)......The "perceived value" of the Audi brand is lower than that of BMW, hence the lower price on the Audi's. Simple as that.
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  #74  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:51 PM
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IS mercedes the BEST car in that review?? No -- just most expensive.
Im not biast to BMW BUT, the majority of true automotive enthusiasts would vote for the M5! Hands Down!
Well, the suspension is softer, resulting in a more comfy ride. In addition, the Benz was 0.2 seconds faster at 100 km/h and had the better range and mpg...

That's enough to win a German review - I don't know if I would prefer the softer suspension, but I wouldn't be too disappointed if the M5 had the other mentioned advantages...

You are absolutely right about the enthusiasts (incl. me). The only problem is - the guys making those reviews aren't enthusiasts and don't base their rankings on the fun-factor.

The Audi is a great car as well, but I'm sure not too many enthusiasts would chose an Audi S6 over a BMW M5.

They even pointed out several times that the M5 is THE driver's car - most fun to drive. But what is a review of PERFORMANCE CARS worth if this is not relevant in the outcome?? All cars are priced around 100K. Based on the review, potential buyers have to watch for their money...4K price-difference is what really counts..forget about the PERFORMANCE...
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  #75  
Old 02-05-2007, 10:52 PM
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I'd take the M5 over all of the cars as well simply cuz I've always loved it. My heart starts pounding just by looking at it. The S6 is a beautifully designed and a rather uncontroversial car which is partially why I'd take the BMW over it. The BMW has the Bangled ugliness (his most controversial design without a doubt) but at the same time a very aggressive look to it whereas the S6 is a little sedate (which was Audi's plan to begin with). I just can't say no to the M5's deep chin spoiler and it's beautiful eyes lol...The E63 is a powerhouse but BMW has the looks and performance - not to mention my heart. *deep loving sigh* haha
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