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E63 / E64 6 Series (2004 - 2010)
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  #1  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:06 AM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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630i low rpm hesitation & start up shake no codes

Hi all,

I've been a Mercedes guy but I want to change so here, bought a BMW 630i 2009,
but it has 2 main issues:

1) there is hesitation at low rpm (1k-2k) for 1-2 seconds under load. Happens if driving or idling. No codes. High fuel consumption (350 full tank)

- Ordered spark plugs, old plugs had oil on them ! Cleaned and fitted new plugs but problem still exists.


2) On start up, no matter when, the car on the igniting process shakes and rattles, once engine on, everything is normal. It starts up normal but that shake/vibration under my foot doesn't sound normal to me.

- Thought its engine & transmission mounts. Changed but no success.



Need your help as it appears this car been neglected by previous owner.

Thank you.
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2020, 11:51 AM
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Hsurf Hsurf is offline
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Wow, that engine bay looks a bit neglected, I'd make a start with the easy items so first check the voltages to see what you're getting both with the engine off/lights on and then with the engine running, next given the dirt in there check the air filter and MAF sensor. Run a smoke test to see if there are any vacuum leaks and run the codes to see if any cylinders have problems, you've changed the plugs but that doesn't rule out the coil packs and also pull the vanos solenoids to see if they are caked in debris, they can be cleaned but on your engine you may need to swap them out (if they are needed don't go cheap with these), if you get a vanos fault code it will probably be these that are at fault.
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  #3  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:10 PM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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Originally Posted by Hsurf View Post
Wow, that engine bay looks a bit neglected, I'd make a start with the easy items so first check the voltages to see what you're getting both with the engine off/lights on and then with the engine running, next given the dirt in there check the air filter and MAF sensor. Run a smoke test to see if there are any vacuum leaks and run the codes to see if any cylinders have problems, you've changed the plugs but that doesn't rule out the coil packs and also pull the vanos solenoids to see if they are caked in debris, they can be cleaned but on your engine you may need to swap them out (if they are needed don't go cheap with these), if you get a vanos fault code it will probably be these that are at fault.
Unfortunately there is no codes at all.

I've cleaned the engine, MAF and changed the air filter.

I'll check with mechanic if he can so a smoke test.

Can Vanos go bad without throwing a code ?
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  #4  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:51 PM
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Hsurf Hsurf is offline
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Yes it can but start by cleaning them first to see if it makes any difference at all but as I say with yours you may find changing will be the proper fix if they are at fault, the 3.0l has different tolerances to our V8's even though they essentially do the same thing. I forgot to mention after the above if you still have issues start to look at fuelling, pressure at the rail, injectors etc.
There is an update out for the N52 to address rough running but the above-mentioned items need to be in known good condition in order for you to get the best from it.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:21 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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That is a dirty engine, & I would also start by measuring the voltage at the jump terminal under the hood. It must be 12+ volts to run properly with the engine off. IF the Vanos was having problems I would suspect some kind of timing issues, but you say there are no fault? I would inspect the CCV vent tubes for cracks, & the CCV valve diaphragms for tears. Since you are not getting any misfires, I would think that the coil packs are at least working properly.

Just to clarify you so the engine is hesitating under load, this would make me think that the traction system is engaging at takeoff. If this happens under load at idle, I would agree with checking the Vanos solenoids. Make sure you are getting 12 volts on one side if the plug to ground, & the other side should be somewhere around 12 volts. This is with the plug to the Vanos solenoid unplugged. If you are not see the voltages above on each plug, start looking for a broken wire to the solenoid. It almost sounds like the Vanos system is probably running in a default mapping mode with limited power. If you unplug the MAF sensor, see if the engine will run any better. It will still be weak on power, but it want bog down.

Last but not least, a generic OBD2 reader will not show all of the problems with our engines, so some type of BMW software is the preferred choice. It might be worth an hour labor to take it to someone that works on a BMW for a living, not just an ordinary automotive shop.
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  #6  
Old 05-21-2020, 07:42 PM
zod zod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibrs View Post
Can Vanos go bad without throwing a code ?
They can certainly under perform. It seems like you should get everything sorted first.
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2020, 11:10 AM
faisal87 faisal87 is offline
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I have the same car and same year model. I have a rough start for about 2-3 seconds and can feel some small engine shaking while warm-idle.

I have posted a thread about my problem, so check it out, maybe some fellow member can help me and help you out.

I am suspecting the tensioner Pulley needs replacement as I have squealing noise from engine bay.

I also suggest to clear all codes and drive the car hard, then check the codes again. maybe the code will come after hard driving condition?
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2020, 07:18 AM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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Update:

We've checked, cleaned or changed from another car, the following but with no success yet:

- Vanos solenoids.
- MAF (looks like a temperature sensor).
- Vacuum leaks.
- Fuel filter (new).
- Injectors.
- Air filters (new).
- Spark plugs (new - old ones had some oil on them).

Mechanic trying to fix the excessive unburned fuel off the exhaust when revving the engine (black smoke) as we believe that is what causing the hesitation, but we don't know what else to check ...

Any advice would be great. Ty
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  #9  
Old 05-28-2020, 11:25 AM
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645/333 645/333 is offline
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Given the state of the engine it looks like it has not had the best of lives, I would also look at the 5 series E60 forum where you will find more people with the straight six!!!! Whilst the spark plugs have been changed as Hsurf mentioned it could be the coil pack or a bad lead. How many miles on the clock????
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  #10  
Old 05-28-2020, 11:37 AM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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179k km (~112k mile)
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  #11  
Old 05-28-2020, 05:18 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibrs View Post
Update:

We've checked, cleaned or changed from another car, the following but with no success yet:

- Vanos solenoids.
- MAF (looks like a temperature sensor).
- Vacuum leaks.
- Fuel filter (new).
- Injectors.
- Air filters (new).
- Spark plugs (new - old ones had some oil on them).

Mechanic trying to fix the excessive unburned fuel off the exhaust when revving the engine (black smoke) as we believe that is what causing the hesitation, but we don't know what else to check ...

Any advice would be great. Ty
Unburned fuel is usually caused by a bad O2 sensor, which should throw a code, but not always. 112 k miles would probably be time to change the sensors, especially after seeing how the engine has been abused. I would also inspect/change the CCV valve, or valves, which could contribute to the excessive oil problem. A smoke test is really needed to see if there are any vacuum leaks that you have not identified such as valve cover gaskets. Are you leaking a lot of oil under the car?

What kind of diagnostic equipment are you using? With all of your problems, there have to be some codes.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:26 PM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibrs View Post
Update:

We've checked, cleaned or changed from another car, the following but with no success yet:

- Vanos solenoids.
- MAF (looks like a temperature sensor).
- Vacuum leaks.
- Fuel filter (new).
- Injectors.
- Air filters (new).
- Spark plugs (new - old ones had some oil on them).

Mechanic trying to fix the excessive unburned fuel off the exhaust when revving the engine (black smoke) as we believe that is what causing the hesitation, but we don't know what else to check ...

Any advice would be great. Ty
Unburned fuel is usually caused by a bad O2 sensor, which should throw a code, but not always. 112 k miles would probably be time to change the sensors, especially after seeing how the engine has been abused. I would also inspect/change the CCV valve, or valves, which could contribute to the excessive oil problem. A smoke test is really needed to see if there are any vacuum leaks that you have not identified such as valve cover gaskets. Are you leaking a lot of oil under the car?

What kind of diagnostic equipment are you using? With all of your problems, there have to be some codes.
I have a generic OBD reader, but the mechanic tool still shows no codes.

Since the was oil changed, there is no leaks or consumption.


I was thinking at this point to change all 6 coils, but I've found a lot of confusion regarding the sparks plugs.

The one I've bought and installed, was the same as the old one removed; Bosch FR7NPP332

Is that the right plug for our cars ? It shows Ended on RealOEM .. don't know what that means.
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2020, 07:34 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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Not sure what plugs that engine take not knowing that engine, it sounds like the number was superseded to a new part number. I am going to ask this question again, have you measured the battery voltage, I see no comment back on that. If the battery is very weak, it will not throw codes, & cause the rough running that you are getting. Once the engine has run some, the alternator charges the battery, & the engine runs ok. Measure the battery voltage after the car has set overnight, & not charging the battery. Measure the battery voltage at the jump terminal with the headlights on, & see what voltage you get? Anything below 12 volts, & the battery is most likely your problem. If you are not sure how old the battery is, just change it.

Just to check you OBD2 reader, unplug your MAF sensor & see if it throws a code? If the engine starts to idle better, start looking at the Vanos wiring, & clean the solenoids. Your OBD2 reader should be able to read your O2 sensors, check to see if the voltage goes up & down, to make sure they are working properly. If there is no voltage change on the O2 sensors, they are not working properly. The upstream sensors are the most important, as the trim the fuel for the engine. To much fuel, & you get black smoke from unburned fuel.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2020, 07:45 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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I also forgot to ask, do your new injectors need to be coded or programmed to your engine? I know some of the new fuel injectors have to be programmed, I am just not sure what year this started?
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:55 AM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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Originally Posted by HerbP View Post
I also forgot to ask, do your new injectors need to be coded or programmed to your engine? I know some of the new fuel injectors have to be programmed, I am just not sure what year this started?
Battery last time checked it was 12.X volts. Ill check it again.

All the parts was replaced from used car with a similar engine, and since there wasn't any difference, my old parts have been installed back.

There isn't much rough on idle, not noticeable, its the hesitation on low rpm (idle or drive) , exactly same as the video below



Atm the mechanic believes it has to be something electrical.

I wish I could make it throw a code
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  #16  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:56 AM
Mibrs Mibrs is offline
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There is no MAF sensor, looks like temperature sensor; removed nothing changed. Not even an engine light
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  #17  
Old Yesterday, 06:05 PM
Underwurlde Underwurlde is offline
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I had this exact issue with hesitation under load. Was quite frightening at times, especially when pulling out of a junction onto a busy road, the car would bog down for a moment. I replaced a lot of parts including plugs, coils, vanos solenoids, vanos oil return valves, eccentric shaft sensor, to no avail. In the end I used INPA to reset all engine adaptations and the problem went away. There is still a bit of a flat spot where the hesitation was but it's a million times better. Btw, I could simulate the hesitation while parked in my drive using the stomp test.... put the car in park and mash the pedal...the revs would drop to about 700 for a second or two and then shoot up...
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  #18  
Old Yesterday, 06:23 PM
HerbP HerbP is offline
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Originally Posted by Mibrs View Post
There is no MAF sensor, looks like temperature sensor; removed nothing changed. Not even an engine light
I call it a MAF since it measures air flow to the engine, just unplug it. If it makes no difference, the problem is somewhere in the Vanos system. Also stated earlier, your O2 sensors might be lazy, not telling the DME how much fuel it is sensing.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E6...ir_mass_meter/
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