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  #101  
Old 10-18-2012, 12:10 PM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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on the S4 the adaptive suspension is something like $2800.
WRONG!!! I love giving voip-ninja a taste of his own medicine The Audi Adaptive Damping Suspension MSRP for $1250.

Last edited by The X Men; 10-18-2012 at 12:16 PM.
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  #102  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:08 PM
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WRONG!!! I love giving voip-ninja a taste of his own medicine The Audi Adaptive Damping Suspension MSRP for $1250.
Touché good sir.
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  #103  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:19 PM
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Touché good sir.
Just messing with you voip-ninja You are so rarely wrong that I had to seize the opportunity
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  #104  
Old 10-18-2012, 01:22 PM
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Just messing with you voip-ninja You are so rarely wrong that I had to seize the opportunity
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  #105  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:22 PM
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Ok, I missed that part. Which areas is the S4 "significantly superior" though? It would help if we had more clarity on that. It's an interesting assessment from someone with access to both.
Ninja and I are pretty much in agreement.

First and foremost, you option an E90 or F30 up to an S4 Premium Plus level, and they are going to be very close pricewise.

S4 is/has (over E90/F30)......

-faster (by a couple of 1/10ths 0-60, and a few more tenths in the 1/4),
-better steering
-better seats
-better interior
-better ride/handling compromise
-better trans (DSG)

Again, I love my 335i.

I prefer the S4.
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  #106  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:31 PM
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I would only prefer the S4 if it was a "fun" "weekend" car that I could also take to track days. I think the F30 is a far better daily driver. The F30 has better tech, very good seats (I might even argue they are a touch better than the S4 seats because of the adjustable thigh bolsters and three position headrest) and is probably about 9/10 as good as the S4 for spirited driving.

In any event, I chose the BMW this go around, we'll see what Audi brings to the table next time.
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  #107  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Ninja and I are pretty much in agreement.

First and foremost, you option an E90 or F30 up to an S4 Premium Plus level, and they are going to be very close pricewise.

S4 is/has (over E90/F30)......

-faster (by a couple of 1/10ths 0-60, and a few more tenths in the 1/4),
-better steering
-better seats
-better interior
-better ride/handling compromise
-better trans (DSG)

Again, I love my 335i.

I prefer the S4.
i drove an s4 and the trans is not better. it might be a DSG but it wasnt as responsive as the ZFsport. seats were nice but no nicer than the bmw sport seats. handling was negated by extra weight over the front and the fact the car loves to understeer. steering was about the same.
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  #108  
Old 10-18-2012, 02:48 PM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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This is the problem I have with these advantages, it seems they are all subjective except for the 0-60. With the power pack this should take care of that. Even without the power pack the 335i is fast enough. The S4 does look nice in their equivalent of Estoril Blue though.

I have spent some time on audizine and I like the crowd there. They are down to earth, however the majority of them seem to be previous Golf/VW/Audi owners, it seems the S4 has not had a broader appeal. The guys they do love to mod their cars though.

Last edited by g37to335i; 10-18-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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  #109  
Old 10-18-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Ninja and I are pretty much in agreement.

First and foremost, you option an E90 or F30 up to an S4 Premium Plus level, and they are going to be very close pricewise.

S4 is/has (over E90/F30)......

-faster (by a couple of 1/10ths 0-60, and a few more tenths in the 1/4),
-better steering
-better seats
-better interior
-better ride/handling compromise
-better trans (DSG)

Again, I love my 335i.

I prefer the S4.
Better steering? you are dreaming. In sport mode the F30 has a very direct steering feel.
Better seats? Obviously you have not tried the Sportline seats
Better interior? Not IMO and many others including most automotive media, but hey that is subjective isn't it.
Better ride? I didn't drive an S4 with the automatic damping suspension so I can't say if its better than the F30's DHP....But my F30 is much better than the S4 i test drove with the standard suspension. I will give the S4 the win here if compared with the luxury F30
Better trans? it could be since you guys like automatics I can't say since I didn't drive an DSG S4. But 6-MT no way. BMW is more direct, and less notchy than the S4. Plus I love the 2nd gear in the 335i. Its just perfect for downshifting and entering slow corners.

Bottom line I could have had any car in the 45K to 65K range for a daily driver and i went with the 335i because it made a better impression on me. You S4 lovers are going to kill me for this, but I liked the G37 Sport sedan 6-MT better than the Audi. At least it gave you some drama and fun driving it.

VOIP are you kidding me when you saying you want an AWD car for a fun weekend/track car? Sorry a neutral RWD with the ability to induce 4 wheel drifts anytime is what I have in mind for a fun track car. And that ain't the S4 dude.
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Last edited by windsor027; 10-18-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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  #110  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:01 PM
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I have two buddies who track their S4s and RS4s and they have no complaints and they aren't giving up much in lap times to "faster" RWD Porsches. I really had to resist caving in and getting an S4 myself.
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  #111  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I have two buddies who track their S4s and RS4s and they have no complaints and they aren't giving up much in lap times to "faster" RWD Porsches. I really had to resist caving in and getting an S4 myself.
That depends a lot on who the driver is.
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  #112  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:13 PM
graphicguy graphicguy is offline
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Well.....believe what you will. I drive both....regularly. That said, both are fine cars.
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  #113  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I have two buddies who track their S4s and RS4s and they have no complaints and they aren't giving up much in lap times to "faster" RWD Porsches. I really had to resist caving in and getting an S4 myself.
I used to go to track days with two guys who had S4s (the old twin-turbo V6), but they were modified. Very neutral, very fast and a lot of fun.

The 335i really needs a diff to be a track car, imo.
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  #114  
Old 10-18-2012, 07:16 PM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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Well.....believe what you will. I drive both....regularly. That said, both are fine cars.
That's why your opinion matters. It's unfortunate you say what I do not want to hear

After your post I am going to test drive it again before picking up the 335. I test drove it twice, the first time I was overwhelmed with how well it drove. The second time not so much. I will admit that with the fine nappa leather seats, there are very few interiors that smell as well south of $65,000

Last edited by g37to335i; 10-18-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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  #115  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:07 PM
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We have a 2011 Audi S4 with a DCT, a 2011.5 M3 sedan MT, and a 2011 335is convertible with a DCT.

They are all three very fine cars.

I prefer the S4 for highway trips as I find it more comfortable for me at 6'4". It is also very planted on the highway. The seating is very comfortable and has never given me a pain in my side when taking a trip like both of the BMWs have. I also think the acceleration is much smoother with the supercharger versus the turbos in the 335is - there is no choppy start-ups or slight hesitation when getting on it. The DCT functions faster and smoother than the DCT in my 335is. The GPS/entertainment center is easier and more straight forward to operate than the BMW iDrive. The rear seating is more comfortable and roomier for your legs as the seat bottoms have a better downward angle. There is a spare tire stored in the trunk and the car does not have run flat tires (also comes with a jack and tool kit). The trunk storage is more useful. Our S4 has all performance options and the car really wakes up in "Dynamic Mode" - the steering becomes more precise, the accelerator is more active, the handling is more planted and agressive, etc. The drink holders are better in the front and the rear. I prefer the quality of the leather better than the 335is (our M3 has the upgraded leather which is very nice indeed). I prefer that you actually move the shifter into the various drive positions as opposed to the very frustrating BMW shifter (automatic transmissions). The rear has broader view. The back-up camera and on-screen view is really excellent, and much better and more useful than the one in our M3. I like the S4 upgraded 19" wheels better than any of the BMW wheels. Each Fall season, Audi offers a wheel/snow tire package that is/was 1/2 the cost as compared to BMW (BMW offered no winter package deals, at least in 2011.) and, you can select from actual Made in Germany S4 wheel options and not some cheaper crappy looking wheels. The snow tires we have are Michelins.

The S4 has better stopping power as compared to my 335is. The S4 has three suspension adjustments as compared to my 335is that has no selections. I also like the change lanes warning system that was not offered by BMW. The S4 owners manual fits easily into the glove compartment and does not fit in either of the BMWs.

I do not like the electronic parking brake in the S4 and prefer the manual hand parking brake in the 335is and M3. I also don't like how much dust the brakes throw off and gets all over the wheels and sides/rear of car.

And, IMO, if there was never an article saying that the Audi's power is front wheel biased, I doubt that most drivers/if anyone who is not a race car driver would ever really notice it.

Last edited by beden1; 10-19-2012 at 07:02 AM.
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  #116  
Old 10-18-2012, 10:52 PM
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And, IMO, if there was never an article saying that the Audi's power is front wheel biased, I doubt that most drivers/if anyone who is not a race car driver would ever really notice it.
I believe that the AWD in the S4 is actually biased to the rear tires. And totally agree that it feels more planted on the highway than the F30 335. There are a lot of "objective" reasons that the S4 is better. You could say all the reasons that my wife and I prefer the F30 are purely subjective. That's fine with us. I do really appreciate all the discussion that this thread has generated!

All that said, we both actually still prefer the feel of the 328i. I will add that since this would be our second, more practical car, it would likely never see track time. That's what our M3 is for. Incidentally, I find the 328i a closer cousin to our M3 than the 335i in every instance other than a straight line.
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  #117  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:15 PM
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I believe that the AWD in the S4 is actually biased to the rear tires. And totally agree that it feels more planted on the highway than the F30 335. There are a lot of "objective" reasons that the S4 is better. You could say all the reasons that my wife and I prefer the F30 are purely subjective. That's fine with us. I do really appreciate all the discussion that this thread has generated!

All that said, we both actually still prefer the feel of the 328i. I will add that since this would be our second, more practical car, it would likely never see track time. That's what our M3 is for. Incidentally, I find the 328i a closer cousin to our M3 than the 335i in every instance other than a straight line.
40:60 split in favor of the rear wheels on dry level ground.

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  #118  
Old 10-19-2012, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I have two buddies who track their S4s and RS4s and they have no complaints and they aren't giving up much in lap times to "faster" RWD Porsches. I really had to resist caving in and getting an S4 myself.

Well VOIP maybe you should have. obviously price was not an issue so the question you need to ask yourself why didn't you. I have alreay stated my reason why I didn't and it had nothing to do with looks or price.
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  #119  
Old 10-19-2012, 05:48 AM
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Well VOIP maybe you should have. obviously price was not an issue so the question you need to ask yourself why didn't you. I have alreay stated my reason why I didn't and it had nothing to do with looks or price.
He explained why already. He thought the F30 was a better daily driver than the S4 and that mattered to him more than the performance difference.

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  #120  
Old 10-19-2012, 05:56 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Well VOIP maybe you should have. obviously price was not an issue so the question you need to ask yourself why didn't you. I have alreay stated my reason why I didn't and it had nothing to do with looks or price.
But price is an issue, Audi dealers rarely have deep discount for the S cars. They are in limited supply first of all and the demand is very high. One should expect to pay close to MSRP on a S4.
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  #121  
Old 10-19-2012, 06:08 AM
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He explained why already. He thought the F30 was a better daily driver than the S4 and that mattered to him more than the performance difference.

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thank you I stand correct then.

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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
But price is an issue, Audi dealers rarely have deep discount for the S cars. They are in limited supply first of all and the demand is very high. One should expect to pay close to MSRP on a S4.
I could have gotten an Audi for about 678 per month lease, which is 90 dollars more per month i am paying now. I can't imagine anyone getting into this price car catagory and not being able to afford an extra 100 dollars per month.
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Last edited by windsor027; 10-19-2012 at 06:13 AM.
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  #122  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:45 AM
graphicguy graphicguy is offline
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That's why your opinion matters. It's unfortunate you say what I do not want to hear

After your post I am going to test drive it again before picking up the 335. I test drove it twice, the first time I was overwhelmed with how well it drove. The second time not so much. I will admit that with the fine nappa leather seats, there are very few interiors that smell as well south of $65,000
Don't want to offend. That's certainly not my intent. As I mentioned, I still love my 3 series. I do believe F30s are a bit "softer" than the Es. And, the S4 is more to my liking for all the reasons I gave previously.

My GF (with my sterling negotiation help) got her (our) '13 S4 for about $3,500 off MSRP. But, I hear you. Most dealers won't budge from MSRP (or maybe offer only a nominal discount) because the S series of cars have limited availability. We tried 4 different dealers and had to drive 5 hours to Chicago to get the deal we got.

Some consider that a benefit. Some don't.

Fact is, both the S4s and the BMWs are at the pinnacle of the luxury sports sedan market. Everybody else is an "also ran".

As a side note, the GF also drove a MB C350 4 matic coupe. I thought she was going to orgasm when we pulled up to the Benz dealer and saw it sitting in the showroom. She loved the styling. It was a pretty car. But, so is the S4 and the BMW.

Then, we drove it. Are you kidding me? It was cramped, slow, and not comfortable, at all. It handled "OK", but that's as far as I'd take it. For that kind of money (about the same as an S4 or 335i), I thought it was a rip off.
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  #123  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:45 AM
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I prefer the S4 for highway trips as I find it more comfortable for me at 6'4". It is also very planted on the highway. The seating is very comfortable and has never given me a pain in my side when taking a trip like both of the BMWs have.
Hate it when I see things like this! Makes me all the more indecisive, especially since I have no way to validate this (i.e. take a long drive)...heck can't even find an S4 on my local dealer's lot.
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  #124  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:46 AM
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We have a 2011 Audi S4 with a DCT, a 2011.5 M3 sedan MT, and a 2011 335is convertible with a DCT.

They are all three very fine cars.

I prefer the S4 for highway trips as I find it more comfortable for me at 6'4". It is also very planted on the highway. The seating is very comfortable and has never given me a pain in my side when taking a trip like both of the BMWs have. I also think the acceleration is much smoother with the supercharger versus the turbos in the 335is - there is no choppy start-ups or slight hesitation when getting on it. The DCT functions faster and smoother than the DCT in my 335is. The GPS/entertainment center is easier and more straight forward to operate than the BMW iDrive. The rear seating is more comfortable and roomier for your legs as the seat bottoms have a better downward angle. There is a spare tire stored in the trunk and the car does not have run flat tires (also comes with a jack and tool kit). The trunk storage is more useful. Our S4 has all performance options and the car really wakes up in "Dynamic Mode" - the steering becomes more precise, the accelerator is more active, the handling is more planted and agressive, etc. The drink holders are better in the front and the rear. I prefer the quality of the leather better than the 335is (our M3 has the upgraded leather which is very nice indeed). I prefer that you actually move the shifter into the various drive positions as opposed to the very frustrating BMW shifter (automatic transmissions). The rear has broader view. The back-up camera and on-screen view is really excellent, and much better and more useful than the one in our M3. I like the S4 upgraded 19" wheels better than any of the BMW wheels. Each Fall season, Audi offers a wheel/snow tire package that is/was 1/2 the cost as compared to BMW (BMW offered no winter package deals, at least in 2011.) and, you can select from actual Made in Germany S4 wheel options and not some cheaper crappy looking wheels. The snow tires we have are Michelins.

The S4 has better stopping power as compared to my 335is. The S4 has three suspension adjustments as compared to my 335is that has no selections. I also like the change lanes warning system that was not offered by BMW. The S4 owners manual fits easily into the glove compartment and does not fit in either of the BMWs.

I do not like the electronic parking brake in the S4 and prefer the manual hand parking brake in the 335is and M3. I also don't like how much dust the brakes throw off and gets all over the wheels and sides/rear of car.

And, IMO, if there was never an article saying that the Audi's power is front wheel biased, I doubt that most drivers/if anyone who is not a race car driver would ever really notice it.
Can you comment on maintenance costs of one vs the other?
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  #125  
Old 10-19-2012, 07:49 AM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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All this is fair but the f30 fixed some of the shortfalls above. The back up camera for example, I have a 2011 X5 and the back up camera on that is better than Audi's. it's simply one of the best in the business and this is the same one on the F30s. The N55 paired with the ZF as in my X5 and in the F30 works very well. Motortrend exclaimed how the F30 they tested was just as fast as the 335is.

Just wanted to point this out as examples of how the F30 improved some of the shortfalls as noted above

Last edited by g37to335i; 10-19-2012 at 07:56 AM.
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