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Old 05-09-2013, 08:18 AM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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2013 ActiveHybrid 3.... 39mpg??!

So im half way through a process of changing up cars. I sold my 2012 AH7 because the mpg was not really worth the time. I am replacing it with two cars...a true mpg car, and a true sports car.

I went down to dealerships like toyota/ford/hyundai and could not bear the test drive on the freeway with any of them. I read that the AH3 was supposedly getting up to 35mpg on the freeway so i purchased one and sacrificed the 5mpg against the toyota avalon (40 mpg for example)

Well i just did my first test run on the freeway with AH3 for 20+miles. The freeway had plenty of rolling hills the entire time, and did not stop the mpg consumption meter until i pulled into a parking lot 1 mile off the freeway. (this did not change the number i had only the freeway).

I couldnt believe the mpg i got on this car! There was almost no sacrifice against the avalon's mpg. This car in sport+ is capable of 0-60 in the 4's...and can do this type of mpg on eco mode when i want??...that's a work of marvel.

And of course thanks to Greg Poland @ Pacific bmw....
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:45 AM
brol brol is offline
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I'm very glad to hear this. I'm picking up my AH3 in Munich on Tuesday and can't wait to open it up on the A8 to Salzburg. Since gas is about $9/gallon, I hope that i can replicate your experience.

Beautiful pics!
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:48 AM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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I'm very glad to hear this. I'm picking up my AH3 in Munich on Tuesday and can't wait to open it up on the A8 to Salzburg. Since gas is about $9/gallon, I hope that i can replicate your experience.

Beautiful pics!
I used to live in Salzburg and run that road weekly....have a blast!
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:01 AM
kkapdolee kkapdolee is offline
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Hey I got my car from Greg Poland @ Pacific BMW as well! He is truly amazing.

BTW, I don' think getting those kind of mileage numbers by cruising on the highway is unusual at all. On my 328i RWD vehicle, I recently got 39.8 MPG on the highway for about the same amount of time as you ~20 to 30 minutes.

I didn't take a picture that time but I did take a picture another time when I got 37.1 MPG but thats on my friends phone.

I suspect AH3 might get really good city mileage in stop and go traffic. I get terrible numbers in such traffic like 17 mpg or so..

My car is still in a break in period so the numbers might change later on though.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:04 AM
jacar jacar is offline
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That's pretty much the optimal condition for this car, same thing but on rolling hill roads where traffic travels at 45 to 55 I see between 38 and 42 mpg. Once you hit town, though it drops-for pure city stop and go it averages 24, long term 80% city and 20% freeway it's settling at around 28mpg. On a tank where the mix is around half freeway half city it averages right around 30mpg, and that's in comfort mode with a few fun trips in sport and a few in Eco.
It's a pretty amazing car, the 328i it replaced had a long term average mpg of 20 so I'm seeing a 50% improvement in milage which means 2-1/2 fill-ups at $60 instead of 4 in a month.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:19 AM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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City is a tricky term......if you are in the "city" but can drive the mpg did not waiver much. I even stopped at two lights and did not get a reduction in my mpg.....im just saying what i observed. I think higher amounts of stop & go would def reduce the mpg..
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jdefg2000 View Post
I used to live in Salzburg and run that road weekly....have a blast!
In that case, I'm sure you know Holzkirchen. I lived there the first 15 years of my life and that's where we were living when we bought our first BMW.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:48 AM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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In that case, I'm sure you know Holzkirchen. I lived there the first 15 years of my life and that's where we were living when we bought our first BMW.
Pretty sure....isn't that where the church you can see from the A8 is....on the south side of the autobahn outside of Munich by 20min or so?
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:09 AM
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Pretty sure....isn't that where the church you can see from the A8 is....on the south side of the autobahn outside of Munich by 20min or so?
Yup, it's about 30 Kilometers from Munich.

Holzkirchen also has a roadhouse on the A8 - on both directions.



We went to Salzburg quite often (we also visited the Mozarthaus at the Getreidegasse).
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:00 PM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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Yup, it's about 30 Kilometers from Munich.

Holzkirchen also has a roadhouse on the A8 - on both directions.



We went to Salzburg quite often (we also visited the Mozarthaus at the Getreidegasse).
I know exactly where that area is of course.

As for Salzburg, we lived on Sigmund-Hafner-Gasse ....above the Zipfer Bierhause
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:49 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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I thought the idea of a hybrid is to save gas in stop and go traffic, not so much on highway, so the fact someone registers a 39 mpg on a highway stretch driving the car like he is operating a sailboat, that isn't too convincing.

There are plenty of gas engine only cars have 40+ mpg highway numbers these days. Really hybrid isn't that much a benefit if most of your driving is highway commute.

All electric cars ara a different story.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:02 PM
jacar jacar is offline
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On a flat highway, not much benefit. On rolling hills, there is a small benefit because on the downslope instead of using engine compression braking or the brakes, both of which is energy lost, the electric motor works as a generator to slow the car then supplements the gas engine on the upslope.
Another place the hybrid gains efficiency is the gas engine always has frictional and inertial losses, for example sitting at a light idling there is a certain amount of energy lost just running the engine at a low rpm: in these conditions the engine controller opens the throttle and engages the motor as a generator while still maintaining the same rpm and charging the battery (you can tell from the exhaust note that the engine is actually working harder than a simple idle, otherwise it is not noticeable): then the engine can shut off and run the A/C, etc or maintain the cars speed off the battery-thus the car gets two uses for one time period of frictional/inertial losses. In gridlock, it's great to watch the engine start up, run for a couple minutes to charge then shut off and let the A/C, etc. run off the battery for ten minutes. It does the same thing while driving to charge the battery then shut of the engine and run off the battery, then start back up again and so on. The only way you know this is going on while in motion is the tach dropping to the 'ready' position.
Real world mpg: I get in the high 30's freeway and up to 40 or so on rolling hills at 45-55mph. In City, lots of stop and go, crawling along never lower than 24, average between 27 and 30 per tank depending on the highway/city mix. Which is pretty amazing for a car which has the performance it has-the torque from the car is awesome, even at 60mph and the engine turning at 1500rpm it pulls hard when merging, etc., the few times I've needed to move fast to catch up to traffic and given it more gas, it downshifts and moves much quicker than I expected, a car you have to respect or you could get in trouble quickly.
The whole experience is pretty neat but really makes one want the next step which is more battery storage and plug in charging.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:50 AM
lezam lezam is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I thought the idea of a hybrid is to save gas in stop and go traffic, not so much on highway, so the fact someone registers a 39 mpg on a highway stretch driving the car like he is operating a sailboat, that isn't too convincing.

There are plenty of gas engine only cars have 40+ mpg highway numbers these days. Really hybrid isn't that much a benefit if most of your driving is highway commute.

All electric cars ara a different story.
I was driving a AH3 tester on the hwy going 60 mph, took my foot off the pedal and the engine cut out completely. When I put my foot back on, the electric kicked in... not the gas. Maybe thats why the hwy numbers are high since its using electric
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:11 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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I think hybrids are better suited for mainstream models where the drivers' only goal is gas saving.

If you are willing to spend $50k+, all electric like the Tesla Model S will provide both the gas saving (by eliminating gas cost) and performance. Maybe the price point and driving range aren't there yet, but it is getting close.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:17 AM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I think hybrids are better suited for mainstream models where the drivers' only goal is gas saving.

If you are willing to spend $50k+, all electric like the Tesla Model S will provide both the gas saving (by eliminating gas cost) and performance. Maybe the price point and driving range aren't there yet, but it is getting close.
Model S is a lot more than that. More like a 5-series at the low end or a 7 at the high end. Performance is similar to an M5.

Edit: Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that a Model S Performance is like $90K.

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I think hybrids are better suited for mainstream models where the drivers' only goal is gas saving.

If you are willing to spend $50k+, all electric like the Tesla Model S will provide both the gas saving (by eliminating gas cost) and performance. Maybe the price point and driving range aren't there yet, but it is getting close.
Personally I feel that hybrids are an excellent interim solution to the problem of costly resources... though I would agree that it's not a good long-term solution. I can't fathom why you're so negative about the AH3... by all accounts it's both a bloody good car and doesn't give up much to be a hybrid (trunk space for example). I am impressed with what BMW has done with this... and while it's nowhere near the most efficient hybrid on the road it can definitely save some money. Add to that it does fix one problem with the x35i; the auto-start-stop can be intrusive in all except the hybrids. Because of the way they work, you're never lacking that immediate power even when the engine is off. To me, that fixes the one big glaring "bug" in modern BMW's that I dislike.

And while I am thinking about a Model S for my next car, too... and I am a Tesla investor... you cannot buy a Model S for $50K. Period. The 40kwh hour model that could hit that price point was discontinued and no longer available for sale. The base 60kwh model is over $70K cash price... not $50K. Note that the $63750 base price listed for it is AFTER a tax rebate of $7500... but also note that tax rebate you don't get back until you file your taxes the tax year after you purchase the car. Up-front cost is still just over $70K... and that's just the basic car without navigation, the pneumatic suspension and so forth... things that really make the Model S competitive.

While I want to see Tesla succeed (obviously) I don't feel continuing to spread the misinformation that it's a $50K sedan is going to help... I am not completely comfortable with the way they're marketing the car at the moment trying to hit a monthly payment (with a LOT of caveats that many people don't meet!). The "Gen 3" (the next car after the SUV Model X) will be a smaller 3-series like car from what has been rumoured so far... that will probably be in the $50K range.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:30 AM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I thought the idea of a hybrid is to save gas in stop and go traffic, not so much on highway, so the fact someone registers a 39 mpg on a highway stretch driving the car like he is operating a sailboat, that isn't too convincing.

There are plenty of gas engine only cars have 40+ mpg highway numbers these days. Really hybrid isn't that much a benefit if most of your driving is highway commute.

All electric cars ara a different story.
Actually it is convincing. Look at the weight of your "plenty" of 40+mpg cars......and look at this car. Look at the performance. You have to take in not just performance, but even safety considerations, features, crash safety etc. As for stop and go, the engine is cutting off constantly, even when just reducing the rpms enough. And the point of a hybrid to clarify is to improve fuel efficiency in any environment....Funny enough the term "hyrbrid" as a literal definition. This car is a "hybrid" between high performance and fuel economy....
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:34 AM
RLSinCO RLSinCO is offline
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re: "2013 ActiveHybrid 3.... 39mpg??!"

Hi,
I just traded in my 2011 335i X for a 2013 AH3 Luxury Line.
My commute to work is about 43 miles each way, and is made up of highway and stop and go traffic.

In my 335i X, I averaged 26.4 MPG which includes conservative driving (work commute) with more aggressive driving tendancies on weekends :-)

In my AH3, I am getting an overall average of 32.2 MPG (using ECO PRO mode for my work commute), however I just got the car last Friday so I haven't done any aggressive driving as I am breaking the engine in normally.

I think overall with my driving habits I will probably settle in around 31 MPG. That's an improvement over my 335i's 26.4 MPG, but in my opinion doesn't justify the $6500 premium that the Hybrid costs. But then again, I didn't acquire the AH3 because of gas savings. Let's face it; the car is rated for 28 MPG average overall, which isn't anything remarkable vs a standard 335i.

I got the AH3 simply because....I liked it. I enjoy trying to be frugal in ECO PRO mode :-) but then being able to tear it up when I want to. It's like that white angel on the right shoulder, red devil on the left...and at least I get to choose which one of them is my best friend on any particular day.

One other factor here - I lease my cars. The AH3 was a lower monthly cost (for a new car generation and more features) than my '11 335i X. Despite what other trolls here have posted regarding the AH3 (not referring to this thread!), this is because the $7500 Eco credit goes to BMW Financial services in a lease (as opposed to buying the car, where YOU get that money), and the dealership considers this as cap cost reduction...plus, I got $750 BMW loyalty, $500 Turn Key incentive (BMW is currently offering $500 towards your first payment), AND $1,000 for having recently graduated with an undergraduate degree. Heh heh, BMW doesn't specify that it has to be your FIRST degree, just that you have graduated within the last 12 months. I'm 48, and decided I wanted another undergrad degree and finished last July, 2012. Hey - it counted and I got the $1,000. Interestingly, BMW told me it is very rare that anyone takes advantage of this incentive.

As for the deal, my '11 was due for turn-in October '13 (had Premium, Navigation, Cold Weather Package), and I was already 4000 miles over as of last week. My dealership bought me out of the rest of my lease (6 months!), forgave the mileage, and handed me the keys to this '13 without a cent out of my pocket (except for first payment), again while significantly reducing my monthly payment. I also leased my '11 without a cent down, so there wasn't much equity in the trade. If anyone cares, my monthly payment is under $550/month for this AH3. It is a $61,000 "Luxury Line" vehicle and has Premium package, Driver Assistance, Technology package, Harmon & Kardon stereo upgrade, and heated seats (not the Cold Weather Package) and finally the BMW apps package. I get 10K miles per year, but as you can see that doesn't necessarily mean a penalty for you if you go over...Plus, it's way more refined and comfortable than my '11.

If you think this is a good deal, I live in Colorado and if anyone is interested in a new or used BMW, just PM me and I will introduce you to my sales guy, whom I have known for years. He is the nicest person who will do anything for you with a smile on his face and takes care of you - no hassles or gimmicks. I have referred 4 customers to him recently who have all bought or leased a new car from him, so when I introduce you he will take care of you.

My last comment is a minor gripe about the BMW apps package; I downloaded the app from iTunes, and most of the features work, but not all of them. I'd consider the app and interaction with the car a beta product, imo. The customized RSS news feeds are cool, as is Web Radio, Last Mile and Calendar (I don't use the FaceBook or Twitter updates, - that would be annoying IMO). BUT - the ECO PRO Analyser doesn't work well at all, - it isn't awarding the stars, capturing the data from the last 4 trips, rating feedback on Acceleration or Anticipation, and Gear Change doesn't even appear - all of which are kind of one of the main points of the app.

Still - I really like the car so far :-)

Last edited by RLSinCO; 05-10-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:14 AM
lezam lezam is offline
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Originally Posted by RLSinCO View Post
re: "2013 ActiveHybrid 3.... 39mpg??!"

One other factor here - I lease my cars. The AH3 was a lower monthly cost (for a new car generation and more features) than my '11 335i X. Despite what other trolls here have posted regarding the AH3 (not referring to this thread!), this is because the $7500 Eco credit goes to BMW Financial services in a lease (as opposed to buying the car, where YOU get that money), and the dealership considers this as cap cost reduction...plus, I got $750 BMW loyalty, $500 Turn Key incentive (BMW is currently offering $500 towards your first payment), AND $1,000 for having recently graduated with an undergraduate degree. Heh heh, BMW doesn't specify that it has to be your FIRST degree, just that you have graduated within the last 12 months. I'm 48, and decided I wanted another undergrad degree and finished last July, 2012. Hey - it counted and I got the $1,000. Interestingly, BMW told me it is very rare that anyone takes advantage of this incentive.
How'd you get a $7,500 eco credit? Did you pick the car off the lot?
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:22 AM
RLSinCO RLSinCO is offline
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Yes, - I picked the car right off the lot. Metallic black exterior with beige leather interior, - actually my preferred color combination too.

Truth be told, - I had intended to buy my '11 after the lease end! But I got one of those "We're desperate for your 335i X...." letters, (which I know the score about those), so I called "just to see", and the rest is...well, there you go

* I see just now that under current lease offers, the eco credit is $3500, - did it used to be $7500? I could have sworn that is what my rep said to me, - according to my paperwork I know they reduced the Gross Capitalized Cost of the car to $52,500 for my deal...and it was not a demo or used.

Last edited by RLSinCO; 05-10-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:16 AM
jdefg2000 jdefg2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by RLSinCO View Post
Yes, - I picked the car right off the lot. Metallic black exterior with beige leather interior, - actually my preferred color combination too.

Truth be told, - I had intended to buy my '11 after the lease end! But I got one of those "We're desperate for your 335i X...." letters, (which I know the score about those), so I called "just to see", and the rest is...well, there you go

* I see just now that under current lease offers, the eco credit is $3500, - did it used to be $7500? I could have sworn that is what my rep said to me, - according to my paperwork I know they reduced the Gross Capitalized Cost of the car to $52,500 for my deal...and it was not a demo or used.
i got 3500 eco credit on the ah3.....on my old ah7 7500 eco credit...per manufacture information. could be the dealer called his deal "7500" eco credit when it was a mixture of dealer & manufacture. Either way i too came in around 62k msrp but purchased around 53k i think....so very low monthly payments 550 total.......

When BMW offers these eco credits on the hybrids it effectively takes the purchase price way below invoice. My payment on my old ah7 at 107k msrp was $850...and others got even a better deal.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:32 AM
RLSinCO RLSinCO is offline
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i got 3500 eco credit on the ah3.....on my old ah7 7500 eco credit...per manufacture information. could be the dealer called his deal "7500" eco credit when it was a mixture of dealer & manufacture. Either way i too came in around 62k msrp but purchased around 53k i think....so very low monthly payments 550 total.......

When BMW offers these eco credits on the hybrids it effectively takes the purchase price way below invoice. My payment on my old ah7 at 107k msrp was $850...and others got even a better deal.
Nicely done! I was amazed at my lease buyout and the mileage forgiveness...but I see that my old car is listed at the dealership for $38,000; buyout for them was $29K
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:47 PM
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RLSInCo: I don't know about your statement that it's not a significant savings. By my reckoning for 15K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon, that difference in fuel mileage you're seeing right now equates to a savings of about $400 a year. While not terribly significant in the grand scheme of things, it's not chump change either. That's more than half (nominally) of a lease payment you're saving per year... in addition to having a lower lease payment than before. I'd say you're definitely saving money

Plus, take it from a technology geek; it's cool.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:00 PM
RLSinCO RLSinCO is offline
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RLSInCo: I don't know about your statement that it's not a significant savings. By my reckoning for 15K miles a year with gas at $4 a gallon, that difference in fuel mileage you're seeing right now equates to a savings of about $400 a year. While not terribly significant in the grand scheme of things, it's not chump change either. That's more than half (nominally) of a lease payment you're saving per year... in addition to having a lower lease payment than before. I'd say you're definitely saving money

Plus, take it from a technology geek; it's cool.
Good point Thumper. And I'm a tech geek too - I wish the Eco Pro Analyser worked better on the app for iPhone, but I'm sure they will release updates; I saw in another thread they released 4 new apps for it, but I'm looking for bug fixes.
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