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The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #26  
Old 05-17-2013, 09:53 AM
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Have my E70 in for service, I am driving a 2013 Luxury Line 328XI, the last 3 series that I had driven was my wifes's 2002 330xi years ago, I remember a tight driving, planted feel that truly had the BMW " FeeL'", Yes the new 2013 is a world away interior wise but taking the same off ramps compared to my X5, kind of shocked that my X5 feels much more planted and stable even though it is an SUV . I am truly hoping that the next X is not as soft , I guess the car mags were right on this one, hard to believe that that this is being billed as a
" sport sedan " , do not get me wrong, it is a nice vehicle but what truly sets this apart from the other competitors other than the badge ?
I suspect that you had the same awkward feeling that I got when I drove the N20 in many vehicles, including the X1 in early 2011. Bottom line, BMW lost its soul with the 328i 4-cyl. and it is not only about handling.

Both your vehicles expresses what differentiated BMW well in the market; a visceral engine experience. This accounts to me for 50% of the BMW driving experience. Now that nasty N20 sounds like a Civic and that's bad.

Fortunately, FORTUNATELY the N55 is available and you can get a very nice 335i Sport for 45K$, with best-in-class engine. Not an engine that belongs to a 30K$ car.

Better, the upcoming M235i will re-establish BMW's edge in the compact premium market. The 128i/135i should does this too, but the lack of visual appeal is a deal breaker, IMO.



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  #27  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:00 AM
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Yes I did forget about that " wonderful " cold start in my garage, my diesel is much quieter, wonder what the engineers at BMW were thinking the first time they heard the N20 start ?
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:08 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
I suspect that you had the same awkward feeling that I got when I drove the N20 in many vehicles, including the X1 in early 2011. Bottom line, BMW lost its soul with the 328i 4-cyl. and it is not only about handling.

Both your vehicles expresses what differentiated BMW well in the market; a visceral engine experience. This accounts to me for 50% of the BMW driving experience. Now that nasty N20 sounds like a Civic and that's bad.

Fortunately, FORTUNATELY the N55 is available and you can get a very nice 335i Sport for 45K$, with best-in-class engine. Not an engine that belongs to a 30K$ car.

Better, the upcoming M235i will re-establish BMW's edge in the compact premium market. The 128i/135i should does this too, but the lack of visual appeal is a deal breaker, IMO.



There is hope!
LOL-not going to go on and on about the N20 to counter your hate. But even though you hate it, do not refer to the N55 as the best in class engine(ATS 3.6, IS350,C350, S4 etc) at the same time not realizing the N20 has been nearly universally heralded as ALSO best in class(N20 as the base engine compared to the Is250, ATS 2.5+2.0, TSX 2.4,A4,S60, C250 etc)

I will say, the M235 has me interested, if they do some kind of 4dr variant with the N55 as a Grand Coupe and price it under $45k, I may consider it if the F80 M3 is not all it's cracked up to be. I was never in love with the 1 series due to it's proportions, but that M235 looks like a scaled down F32 which is a GOOD thing.
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  #29  
Old 05-18-2013, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
LOL-not going to go on and on about the N20 to counter your hate. But even though you hate it, do not refer to the N55 as the best in class engine(ATS 3.6, IS350,C350, S4 etc) at the same time not realizing the N20 has been nearly universally heralded as ALSO best in class(N20 as the base engine compared to the Is250, ATS 2.5+2.0, TSX 2.4,A4,S60, C250 etc).
So you are basically saying that the N55 is in a different class than the N20.

* True *.

You conveniently forgot one. To the N20, I would DEFINITELY prefer the engine of the C300, a DI NA 3.5L 248HP, same price. For having driving a few MB 3.5, it has an engine note that puts the N20 to shame.
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  #30  
Old 05-18-2013, 05:35 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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So you are basically saying that the N55 is in a different class than the N20.

* True *.

You conveniently forgot one. To the N20, I would DEFINITELY prefer the engine of the C300, a DI NA 3.5L 248HP, same price. For having driving a few MB 3.5, it has an engine note that puts the N20 to shame.
Engine note does not automatically mean a better engine overall. Lets be honest, its easy to find a better sounding engine than the n20. But in magazine testing the n20 equals the c350, so the N20 may have a advantage over the low output version in the 3.5. So it will be slower and get worse fuel economy but sound better while doing it.
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  #31  
Old 05-18-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Engine note does not automatically mean a better engine overall.
Correct.

But when I buy a BMW, I don't want merely a better engine appliance-mode, but I also demand an engine that offers a better driving experience.
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  #32  
Old 05-18-2013, 06:00 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Correct.

But when I buy a BMW, I don't want merely a better engine appliance-mode, but I also demand an engine that offers a better driving experience.
I know, I know you are not buying an n20 lol. But that does not mean the MB c300 has a better engine due to the sound when the N20 makes more power and more efficiently and offers much more power via aftermarket and BMW OEM tuning.
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  #33  
Old 05-18-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I know, I know you are not buying an n20 lol. But that does not mean the MB c300 has a better engine due to the sound .
A resounding *yes*.

The sound, the driving experience of the 3.5L is much more satisfying to me than the N20, no matter the numbers. This is an engine that belongs to a 40K$+ car.

It is not for nothing that a few threads like this pop up regularly about the 328i and its plain driving experience.

You are extremely lucky in the USA to get the N55 engine for only 4K$, considering the differences in equipment.
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  #34  
Old 05-18-2013, 02:40 PM
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As a side note, I am driving a Chevy Cruise loaner today with 10,000 miles on the odometer and it handles better than my BMW on the back roads. It's tight and eats up bad surfaces. The seating is also very comfortable and the cockpit layout is very well done. It looks kinda cheap but functions well.
I had a Cruze Eco 6spd manual for 6 months two years ago, even then it was well optioned, did not look cheap inside, and was quite fun to drive. I regularly got 45+mpg on the highway.

Recently got to test drive an auto Cruze Eco (back then they did not offer Eco line in auto) and the interior upgraded even further, with nice looking touch screen added.

It is amazing how well equipped a sub $20k car can be these days.
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  #35  
Old 05-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
A resounding *yes*.

The sound, the driving experience of the 3.5L is much more satisfying to me than the N20, no matter the numbers. This is an engine that belongs to a 40K$+ car.

It is not for nothing that a few threads like this pop up regularly about the 328i and its plain driving experience.

You are extremely lucky in the USA to get the N55 engine for only 4K$, considering the differences in equipment.
Professional testers disagree about the N20 in this $40k+ car. They pretty much rave about the drivetrain. BUT, you may have a hard time proving either me right or me proving you wrong, as the 328 has been tested against the 2.0's and smaller V6's of the competition and no mingling with the 335's competition.
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  #36  
Old 05-18-2013, 08:47 PM
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I had a Cruze Eco 6spd manual for 6 months two years ago, even then it was well optioned, did not look cheap inside, and was quite fun to drive. I regularly got 45+mpg on the highway.

Recently got to test drive an auto Cruze Eco (back then they did not offer Eco line in auto) and the interior upgraded even further, with nice looking touch screen added.

It is amazing how well equipped a sub $20k car can be these days.
It was a Chevy Cruise LTZ which is their top of the line model. I didn't look it up as yet but it felt like it was front wheel drive. I was very impressed with the handling. Not that impressed with the lack of power.

Just looked it up and it is front wheel drive. I thought I felt the torque steer. First car to have smart airbags which is a very nice safety feature. Also has a center console airbag so your body does not get thrown right if hit on driver's side (and visa versa). All GM cars are going to have these with each new model refresh.

I wonder if BMW is also going to do this?
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  #37  
Old 05-18-2013, 09:15 PM
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Is this really a 3 series ?

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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Exactly. It's becoming common with previous-model drivers coming onto forums with "WOW I can't believe how soft the new 3/5/etc. feels" after driving loaner cars with Luxury Packages and weighted things like X-Drive.

Fact is, a Luxury Line 3-Series isn't even a base 3-Series.... it's specifically a LUXURY Line. As said by so many here, newer BMW's aren't the "out of the box road warriors" they used to be, now in base form they come much more comfortably and "luxuriously", for better or worse. A Sport Package and some tactful sporty Options are a must if you're going to gauge an F Chassis' sportive merits, as the cars are designed to need them to "wake up" and show capabilities there.
I was always wondering what's so luxurious about the luxury line. Given equally optioned cars fron different lines, what luxury amenities does the so called luxury 3-er add? Does it have multi-contour ventilated seats? Seat massager? Multi-zone climate control? Rear seat infotainment system?
All the differences cosmetic only with more chrome lipstick on the "luxury" line F-30.


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  #38  
Old 05-18-2013, 10:52 PM
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I was always wondering what's so luxurious about the luxury line. Given equally optioned cars fron different lines, what luxury amenities does the so called luxury 3-er add? Does it have multi-contour ventilated seats? Seat massager? Multi-zone climate control? Rear seat infotainment system?
All the differences cosmetic only with more chrome lipstick on the "luxury" line F-30.
The differences are only cosmetic, it's ridiculous how some people want to characterize the driving dynamics as if they are different than a base, Modern, or XDrive.

The answer to your question is: Saddle interior and chrome accents. Throw DHP on a Luxury line, it's a Sport line with bling. Criticize the chrome touches all you want, that's a matter of personal taste. But you can't criticize the ride or handling because it's the same RWD suspension found on the base model, it's actually a firmer and sportier ride than any XDrive model, and you can throw DHP on a Luxury line and it'll handle as well as a Sport line or M-Sport line.

Saddle interior, chrome accents, otherwise same damn car. BMW made it clear that all the lines are cosmetic, personal distinctions, not sure what's taking everyone so long to figure out BMW's marketing scheme.

BJ
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  #39  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:50 AM
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Professional testers disagree about the N20 in this $40k+ car. They pretty much rave about the drivetrain.
Not really. The N20 had the worst NVH rating in this 5 cars comparo at 7/10. All others were at least at 8/10. There are many other references in professional testers that the N20 isn't as involving as the I6 and that's just true.
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  #40  
Old 05-19-2013, 03:42 PM
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The n20 sounds like a diesel, the n55 sounds like a vacuum cleaner, and the Mercedes V6 sounds like a very well damped version of the V6s GM made from 1990-2007.

With BMW, at least, you truly do get amazingly efficient engines that somehow offer best-in-class economy (for their power ratings) and performance.
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  #41  
Old 05-19-2013, 04:11 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Not really. The N20 had the worst NVH rating in this 5 cars comparo at 7/10. All others were at least at 8/10. There are many other references in professional testers that the N20 isn't as involving as the I6 and that's just true.
Which I6 are they comparing it to that Is used in the competition as a base engine?

Your information is flawed, you only called out NVH, if you take the transmission out which got a 10, the n20 would still have won or tied the 300hp volvo in overall ratings of the engine. Selecting ONE grading element is showing a bit of bias, like If I said look at the acceleration figure as a 9 and saying that makes it a great engine, when there are more factors.
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  #42  
Old 05-19-2013, 04:34 PM
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But you can't criticize the ride or handling because it's the same RWD suspension found on the base model, it's actually a firmer and sportier ride than any XDrive model, and you can throw DHP on a Luxury line and it'll handle as well as a Sport line or M-Sport line.
BJ
Actually the sway bars are thicker on the M-Sport even over the Sport. .5mm over the Sport on the rears.
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  #43  
Old 05-19-2013, 04:39 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Actually the sway bars are thicker on the M-Sport even over the Sport. .5mm over the Sport on the rears.
No, there is no difference between Sport and M Sport suspensions on US cars.
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  #44  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Professional testers disagree about the N20 in this $40k+ car. They pretty much rave about the drivetrain...
True, but the A4 gets pretty close in acceleration times with a much heavier car. The N20 is slightly better than the A4's 2.0T, and by slightly I mean 5% to at best 10% (really a stretch). And the A4's 2.0T sounds better. Yet all these "professional" reviewers were scandalized by the 2.0T and used to complain about how could you ever have such a "sewing machine" engine in a car in this category, how could you charge so much for a four banger, etc. They would also never miss the opportunity to compare it against the harmonious singing and ultra smoooooth I6 of BMW. But once BMW went the same route with a crappier sounding engine, suddenly it is a great drivetrain
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:11 PM
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Actually the sway bars are thicker on the M-Sport even over the Sport. .5mm over the Sport on the rears.
Since BMW is publishing less and less technical info about their cars, we are left wondering about more and more issues. Is it becoming the car company for the car dummy?
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:25 PM
HokieXDriver HokieXDriver is offline
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Since BMW is publishing less and less technical info about their cars, we are left wondering about more and more issues. Is it becoming the car company for the car dummy?
I think so.

They still publish this information about the M cars, so maybe they see M as the car to buy if you're an all-out enthusiast.
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  #47  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
I was always wondering what's so luxurious about the luxury line.
18" wheels versus the weird looking 17" no line wheels, chrome accents, chrome exhaust trim, much nicer window trim versus the cheap squeegee chalky rubber affair of the no-line, and a much nicer steering wheel versus the rental grade plain Jane steering of the no-line. Sure, for what you get is is a ripoff, but the no-look is a ripoff too for the price of the car.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:16 PM
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No, there is no difference between Sport and M Sport suspensions on US cars.
From another post:

Looking at realoem it appears that one difference between the m variable suspension and the regular sport suspension is sway bar size. The comparison is 22mm sport, 22.5mm m variable (front). Rear sway bars appear to be 22mm sport, 23mm m variable. Assuming this is correct, I ordered my F30 with the M variable suspension as it may (note cautious hedging there) have a tad less understeer and slightly less body roll. Not that I would ever use my BMW in a way to appreciate those distinctions but it is just a nice theory.

So perhaps the DHP is different then.
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  #49  
Old 05-19-2013, 07:42 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by EddieB View Post
From another post:

Looking at realoem it appears that one difference between the m variable suspension and the regular sport suspension is sway bar size. The comparison is 22mm sport, 22.5mm m variable (front). Rear sway bars appear to be 22mm sport, 23mm m variable. Assuming this is correct, I ordered my F30 with the M variable suspension as it may (note cautious hedging there) have a tad less understeer and slightly less body roll. Not that I would ever use my BMW in a way to appreciate those distinctions but it is just a nice theory.

So perhaps the DHP is different then.
You are saying two different things. First you said Sport and M Sport had different sway bars which they do not, now you are specifying dhp vs passive sport/M Sport.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
18" wheels versus the weird looking 17" no line wheels, chrome accents, chrome exhaust trim, much nicer window trim versus the cheap squeegee chalky rubber affair of the no-line, and a much nicer steering wheel versus the rental grade plain Jane steering of the no-line. Sure, for what you get is is a ripoff, but the no-look is a ripoff too for the price of the car.
People like upgrading their wheels, and modifying the look if their cars as they see fit. Still get halogen lights on the "luxury" line 328 as a standard equipment?


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