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The sixth generation BMW 3 Series Sedan F30/F31/F34 and the first first generation 4 Series Coupe F32/F33/F36. Get the latest 3 and 4 series pricing from our ordering and pricing guide sticky thread.

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  #26  
Old 07-02-2019, 11:29 AM
John MS John MS is offline
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I just bought a Lexus 300 NX.


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You are racking up the depreciation.
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  #27  
Old 07-02-2019, 12:38 PM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by rpickoff View Post
I just bought a Lexus 300 NX.


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You are racking up the depreciation.
Doyou mean by solidifying the value used on the 3? Lexus going to depreciate at a slower rate.
Most of us here are more focused on user tech, performance, and safety tech where BMW is pretty good at holding an edge.
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  #28  
Old 07-02-2019, 01:05 PM
jwalz1 jwalz1 is offline
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Most of us here are more focused on user tech, performance, and safety tech where BMW is pretty good at holding an edge.
User tech....don't care.
Performance...except for a nice inline 6 BMW seems more content with a decent 0-60 and Camry like driving experience.
Safety Tech....Like auto braking, self parking, lane keeping, or blind spot monitoring? I can do that myself.


BMW is a just badge now. One that tries to represent everything to everyone while doing nothing particularly great. Reliability? Ultimate Driving Machine? Prestige? Holder of value?

I used to admire BMW's for being enthusiast cars, now they are overpriced badges. They are not up there with the best luxury interiors, they are not the sportiest to drive, I don't know what they want to be and frankly, I think they don't know either. They want mass sales, that's about it. The latest ads are marketing infotainment to millennial buyers, no mention of driving experience. You can get pretty much all of BMW's tech on a run of the mill Mazda 3 these days.

With my Porsche, everything is top notch. Performance, driving experience, reliable, interior and build quality, holds value far better than most cars.

After buying the last 3 series, I would never buy one again and I don't like saying that. I had a wonderful ED experience but the car is mediocre. Sounds like then new generation is too. My car is a very comfortable, quick, weather beating, stylish, efficient four door. It is not a luxury car, nor a real sports sedan in feel or execution. There are tons of those and most depreciate much slower and have far better longevity. Especially if you have an n20/26 timing chain. The 3 series is now an expensive pile of meh.

Mercedes went through a long period of wandering in the wilderness. I think BMW is just at the beginning of a long walkabout.
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  #29  
Old 07-02-2019, 02:05 PM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is offline
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Even coming from your sexy leather trimmed go kart, you can't compare a BMW ride to a Camry.
Some people call the f30 interior "dated", I think is classic and classy. I also believe there is one way to have a BMW which is nearly or fully loaded.
Porsche mentality is much more minimalist and even more performance oriented, so that makes sense that there is good market for those cars with any build. They are a bit more "auto art" and limited production, with exceptional motorsport history... this helps with the slower or different depreciations. Most of the cars in here are drivers and not art. My $.02
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  #30  
Old 07-02-2019, 03:32 PM
jjhebigscreen jjhebigscreen is offline
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I drive a 2014 BMW 2014 435IX that has mppk and mpe. I really enjoy this car. I like the interior, seating position and quality of most all the materials. Its a great looker. It is built with very tight tolerances and has zero rattles. I think its is put together very well. I enjoy the handling, the transmission is fantastic and the engine is dynamite. It soaks up bumps nicely and handles rather well. It feels great when you push the car and the trans rips off quick shifts. In fact the real bummer is I cant safely exploit the car enough on public roads to fully enjoy it on a regular basis. To much traffic.
I consider myself a definite enthusiast so I dont agree with your broad brush stroke that all BMWs are meh and that they have lost there way. Certain products and models configured specific ways in their line up might not be fantastic but I think you will find that with Mercedes and Audi. It has always been this way. I think comparing them to Porsche is apples to oranges for many reasons. There are a lot of forum members who really enjoy their car. For that matter there is a lot of a non forum members who love their Bimmers!
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  #31  
Old 07-02-2019, 04:30 PM
iceman437x iceman437x is offline
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@Rpickoff I just went thru the drivetrain malfunction fix and after 4 trips to dealer *$3k later the car is back an running fine. new turb, some wiring harness, a oil pump and labor I was ready to call an attorney.
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  #32  
Old 07-02-2019, 05:09 PM
CliffT CliffT is offline
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My brother bought a new '17 540 for $74000. He just sold it 6 months ago for $42K. New cars make one want to practice stretching to be ready for an ankle grab.
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  #33  
Old 07-02-2019, 07:39 PM
zod zod is online now
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Originally Posted by jjhebigscreen View Post
Hello,

There is two sides to depreciation. If you buy new than depreciation on these cars is brutal. You need to know this going in. Some people will only buy new. Because depreciation on these cars is so bad it opens up a fabulous opportunity to buy lightly used. Its a lot more work to buy lightly used as you need to find the right car and do your due diligence. I looked for a while when I bought 1.5 years ago a 2014 435ix with 22k miles and 6 months factory warranty left for $29,500. This car stickered at $58,500. The car was close to as new. I enjoy my car immensely and will not take a huge depreciation hit.
Roger roger.

There's probably going to be a recession next year. The C8 Corvette intro's in six days. There should be some sweet deals on used C6 and C7 Vettes down the road if you can keep your powder dry. There will be some pissy owners.
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  #34  
Old 07-02-2019, 07:42 PM
RyanC883 RyanC883 is offline
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Try getting a price from Vroom.com. They have great trade-in rates and in my experience are easy to deal with. I sold a former Hyundai Santa Fe to them. 2K more than a dealer or anyother online service.
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  #35  
Old 07-02-2019, 08:50 PM
Ipabrew Ipabrew is offline
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Depreciation

Very broad view. Frankly, can be even more than this ...

the value of a new vehicle can drop by more than 20 percent after the first 12 months of ownership. Then, for the next four years, you can expect your car to lose roughly 10 percent of its value annually. This means that a new car can be worth as little as 40 percent of its original purchase price after five years.

Plus a trade in will see a factor on top of this depending on dealer desire etc
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  #36  
Old 07-03-2019, 07:26 AM
RyanC883 RyanC883 is offline
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Dealers also will give you a terribly low price. They make a HUGE profit on used cars.

Sell to Vroom. Their model appears to be high-volume. I've never had a better trade-in experience. No hassle at all (except sending some paperwork back and forth. But just send FedEx or use Post Office overnight).
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  #37  
Old 07-03-2019, 08:17 AM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is offline
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Dealers also will give you a terribly low price. They make a HUGE profit on used cars.
Except when for whatever reason they can't or won't retail your trade in, then they can have a loss if it goes to auction.
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  #38  
Old 07-03-2019, 08:47 AM
Manamaja Manamaja is offline
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User tech....don't care.
Performance...except for a nice inline 6 BMW seems more content with a decent 0-60 and Camry like driving experience.
Safety Tech....Like auto braking, self parking, lane keeping, or blind spot monitoring? I can do that myself.


BMW is a just badge now. One that tries to represent everything to everyone while doing nothing particularly great. Reliability? Ultimate Driving Machine? Prestige? Holder of value?

I used to admire BMW's for being enthusiast cars, now they are overpriced badges. They are not up there with the best luxury interiors, they are not the sportiest to drive, I don't know what they want to be and frankly, I think they don't know either. They want mass sales, that's about it. The latest ads are marketing infotainment to millennial buyers, no mention of driving experience. You can get pretty much all of BMW's tech on a run of the mill Mazda 3 these days.

With my Porsche, everything is top notch. Performance, driving experience, reliable, interior and build quality, holds value far better than most cars.

After buying the last 3 series, I would never buy one again and I don't like saying that. I had a wonderful ED experience but the car is mediocre. Sounds like then new generation is too. My car is a very comfortable, quick, weather beating, stylish, efficient four door. It is not a luxury car, nor a real sports sedan in feel or execution. There are tons of those and most depreciate much slower and have far better longevity. Especially if you have an n20/26 timing chain. The 3 series is now an expensive pile of meh.

Mercedes went through a long period of wandering in the wilderness. I think BMW is just at the beginning of a long walkabout.


Porsche is the final stand

I have enjoyed the E34 and E36 ... rides... I own one of each.. a 1995 E34.. and a 1998 E36
For the last 12 years I have nursed these cars.. the run and drive and are reasonable backyard mechanic fixable..E34 parts are waning.. the E36 I have a 96 donor car, I get asked constantly where to find a E36... they are becoming harder to find on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace.. I have been looking at a 1989 911.. fixer-upper for 12500 ... But the motorcycle still is my gofast choice..
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  #39  
Old 07-03-2019, 12:59 PM
rpickoff rpickoff is offline
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What does Kelly Blue Book say?
Pretty much $26,000
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  #40  
Old 07-03-2019, 08:46 PM
John MS John MS is offline
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Originally Posted by dzlbimmer View Post
Doyou mean by solidifying the value used on the 3? Lexus going to depreciate at a slower rate.
Most of us here are more focused on user tech, performance, and safety tech where BMW is pretty good at holding an edge.
Solidifying the value??? doubletalk....
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  #41  
Old 07-04-2019, 01:58 AM
rpickoff rpickoff is offline
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Originally Posted by jjhebigscreen View Post
Hello,

There is two sides to depreciation. If you buy new than depreciation on these cars is brutal. You need to know this going in. Some people will only buy new. Because depreciation on these cars is so bad it opens up a fabulous opportunity to buy lightly used. Its a lot more work to buy lightly used as you need to find the right car and do your due diligence. I looked for a while when I bought 1.5 years ago a 2014 435ix with 22k miles and 6 months factory warranty left for $29,500. This car stickered at $58,500. The car was close to as new. I enjoy my car immensely and will not take a huge depreciation hit.
Depreciation is only’brutal’ if you have to sell it in 18 months because you don’t trust it to get you where you are going. Point is being missed that I could well afford the car, the maintenance and the expensive oil changes. What I couldn’t reconcile was the AWFUL dealer experience, the ride that felt like a Flintstone Car and having to drive a relatively new car home in limp mode (car, not me) because of a failure that I got for all that money.
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  #42  
Old 07-04-2019, 08:00 AM
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kjboyd kjboyd is online now
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Originally Posted by rpickoff View Post
Depreciation is only’brutal’ if you have to sell it in 18 months because you don’t trust it to get you where you are going. Point is being missed that I could well afford the car, the maintenance and the expensive oil changes. What I couldn’t reconcile was the AWFUL dealer experience, the ride that felt like a Flintstone Car and having to drive a relatively new car home in limp mode (car, not me) because of a failure that I got for all that money.


Not dismissing your other issues but still not understanding why you were paying for oil changes? They are free for 3 years.
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  #43  
Old 07-04-2019, 08:49 AM
rpickoff rpickoff is offline
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Not dismissing your other issues but still not understanding why you were paying for oil changes? They are free for 3 years.
I wasn’t. They are free up to 36,000 which I passed. The next one (40,000) would not have been free. That isn’t the point. It was the premature Drivetrain Malfunction and having to limp home in a $65,000 car that was the final straw for me.
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  #44  
Old 07-05-2019, 01:21 PM
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Depreciation

Thanks for clarifying. Just trying to figure out what actual expenses you’d paid on a car with a full warranty left. Makes sense now.

$20,000 $50,000 $100,000. Cars have problems no matter what they’ve cost. and now and then a lemon gets through. Sorry for your troubles.
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2006 X3 3.0i, Flamenco Red/Beige
1997 528iA, Oxford/Tan
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Last edited by kjboyd; 07-05-2019 at 01:22 PM.
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  #45  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:05 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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I've run into two of first-time and one-time BMW owners who freaked out when they paid for their first $120 oil change. Considering that most six-cylinder BMW's need 6.5 liters, it's not only synthetic, but a synthetic super-oil (BMW-LL01, etc.), that's not an unreasonable price. But, that didn't matter. An oil change on their last car was $35.

The cost of an oil change is why non-luxury car manufacturers were so reluctant to require synthetic oil in their cars.

Back in the early 1990's, GM 3800 V6's were having problems on conventional 5W-30 oil. Instead of switching them to synthetic 5W-30 (like they did in Corvettes and Cadillacs), they went to conventional 10W-30. It mitigated the problems, but didn't fix them. But, it was better than losing a lot of customers because "I ain't gonna buy no car that needs $7/quart oil."
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  #46  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:18 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by jjhebigscreen View Post
Hello,

There is two sides to depreciation. If you buy new than depreciation on these cars is brutal. You need to know this going in. Some people will only buy new. Because depreciation on these cars is so bad it opens up a fabulous opportunity to buy lightly used. Its a lot more work to buy lightly used as you need to find the right car and do your due diligence. I looked for a while when I bought 1.5 years ago a 2014 435ix with 22k miles and 6 months factory warranty left for $29,500. This car stickered at $58,500. The car was close to as new. I enjoy my car immensely and will not take a huge depreciation hit.
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them. A friend of mine is a serial BMW leaser. Another friend, a millionaire who drives used cars, was interested in getting the serial leaser's M325i when it came off lease. But, it was trashed mostly from running it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. There was also a lot of curb rash on the front bumper and wheels.

Also, any used car comes with risk. My neighbor brought home a used Jaguar a few years ago. It wasn't there for two years before it was replaced with a new Suzuki CUV.

The only person I trust enough to buy a used BMW from is me. So, that's what I do... buy new, but keep them to 100k miles or so. I mitigate my costs by keeping them longer than the average new car buyer/leaser.

My 2014 535i stickered for $73k. After five years and 57k miles, it was worth $21k.

The OP does have a legitimate gripe about run-flat "Flintsone tires." I fixed that on my car by ditching them 20k miles early for some non-run-flats. They transformed the car.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 07-05-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-05-2019, 06:29 PM
zod zod is online now
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My last E28 oil change was approaching $60 - Castrol or Valvoline 5W-20. My E64 was $95 with LL-01. Money well spent if I don't have to do it myself. Religion may not save you from a turbo motor.
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  #48  
Old 07-05-2019, 07:08 PM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post

The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them.
Realizing that the operative word here is "most", it's also important to realize that many people just don't know how to care for cars despite their best efforts or intentions or situations.
I've usually found myself purchasing as nice a car as I can find, but none of the enthusiast stuff has been done that we talk about here in the forums. So I chip away at that stuff and the next owner is usually the first person that comes to look at it after I post it for sale. Basic rule of thumb, use high quality parts and fluids, try to catch issues early, and batch your jobs to save on labor time (while you're in there type thinking). Professional mechanics laugh when this comes up in conversation, but some of those guys are like wizards and get paid hourly or book time.

Back to the original subject matter, one of the reasons first year values are so low is because of the rental fleets and damaged cars dumped back in to the market. Oh, no checkbox for prior rental on the kbb app? You don't say...
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  #49  
Old 07-06-2019, 03:05 AM
rpickoff rpickoff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them. A friend of mine is a serial BMW leaser. Another friend, a millionaire who drives used cars, was interested in getting the serial leaser's M325i when it came off lease. But, it was trashed mostly from running it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. There was also a lot of curb rash on the front bumper and wheels.

Also, any used car comes with risk. My neighbor brought home a used Jaguar a few years ago. It wasn't there for two years before it was replaced with a new Suzuki CUV.

The only person I trust enough to buy a used BMW from is me. So, that's what I do... buy new, but keep them to 100k miles or so. I mitigate my costs by keeping them longer than the average new car buyer/leaser.

My 2014 535i stickered for $73k. After five years and 57k miles, it was worth $21k.

The OP does have a legitimate gripe about run-flat "Flintsone tires." I fixed that on my car by ditching them 20k miles early for some non-run-flats. They transformed the car.
AP, does ‘OP’ stand for Original Poster or Old Poop? Having plans to build a 3-lift car repair shop in your house is not exactly a testimony to your faith in BMW reliability!!***128540; Only teasing. Nice to meet you all, I’m glad I could afford the luxury of trying a BMW and, most of all, getting rid of it. As the French say: “à chacun son gôut”
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  #50  
Old 07-06-2019, 04:21 AM
jjhebigscreen jjhebigscreen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
The problem is that most people who only keep BMW's two years or so don't take particularly good care of them. A friend of mine is a serial BMW leaser. Another friend, a millionaire who drives used cars, was interested in getting the serial leaser's M325i when it came off lease. But, it was trashed mostly from running it through a mechanical car wash every week or so. There was also a lot of curb rash on the front bumper and wheels.

Also, any used car comes with risk. My neighbor brought home a used Jaguar a few years ago. It wasn't there for two years before it was replaced with a new Suzuki CUV.

The only person I trust enough to buy a used BMW from is me. So, that's what I do... buy new, but keep them to 100k miles or so. I mitigate my costs by keeping them longer than the average new car buyer/leaser.

My 2014 535i stickered for $73k. After five years and 57k miles, it was worth $21k.

The OP does have a legitimate gripe about run-flat "Flintsone tires." I fixed that on my car by ditching them 20k miles early for some non-run-flats. They transformed the car.
I think there are always going to be people that dont take care of any brand car in year 1, year 2 and over the life of the car. This is why Buying lightly used is far more work but worth it when it comes to future depreciation. You really need to do your due diligence and find a solid well maintained ( with receipts) car that has the options you want. These type of cars are out there. You need to be disciplined and pass on questionable cars even when they have the right options and price. You need proof they where well maintained and should always do a pre purchase inspection at a well regarded dealer with good reviews. The process can take time but in the end is well worth it. Very rewarding when you end up with a great car for 40% or more off sticker.

Last edited by jjhebigscreen; 07-06-2019 at 04:40 AM.
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