signs of F30 N20/N26 timing chain issue, and OCI to the rescue? - Page 8 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



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  #176  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:21 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Are the timing chain issues isolated to colder climates? 0 weight vs 5 weight only matters if the temps are low. If you're in Vegas or Miami it doesn't matter.
If someone has spec sheets of BMW Twinpower 0w30 versus 5w30 please post them, my google search has not returned any.

bobisoilguy has lots of threads of 0w30 versus 5w30. The common themes of these threads are "pumpability" at low temp, and "thick enough" at high temp. Note that w30 means the same [email protected], so 0w versus 5w still have lots of "room" below 100C, all the way to -40C(e.g.)

E.g. some non-BMW oil spec(e.g. M1) says 0w30 being thicker than [email protected]

So the secrets may be hidden in the specs of BMW's 0w30 versus 5w30.
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  #177  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:25 AM
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Timing Chain Tensioner - Replacement

BMW has used at least three different Timing Chain tensioners over the years for their N20 motor. My wife's X4 (F26) was produced 8/2014 so it didn't have the latest iteration of the TC tensioner. The car only has 16K miles on it and has not displayed any of the telltale signs of the TC going bad. Nonetheless. I decided to change the tensioner to the latest version (released 8/15/2016) and I wrote a little DIY (attached). In the words of BMWtechnician "it couldn't hurt."

If nothing else, the attachment has a decent description of the difference between the two latest versions of the TC tensioner.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf N20 Timing Chain Tensioner changed.pdf (504.4 KB, 145 views)
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  #178  
Old 08-19-2018, 11:49 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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My local dealers are group F, and the foremen said they saw 20+ N20/N26 in the shop for TC so far, mainly X3 and xDrive.

These service bays typically take in 140-150 cars per weekday, and can exceed those numbers on Sat.

How many N20/N26 TC issues your local service departments saw? E.g. SoCal dealers should have even bigger service volume than NorCal ones.
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  #179  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:42 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Is anyone aware of any update of these N20/N26 timing chain lawsuits?

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...g-chains.shtml
https://www.kgglaw.com/class-action/...-filed-by-kgg/
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  #180  
Old 03-20-2019, 12:59 AM
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bmwtechician.com has several excellent threads on this issue. E.g. some recent posts already ask if borescope can be used to inspect the guard rail weak points(i.e. the clip-on parts), Andreas's answer is that it is not possible, or at least there is no official SIB for this type of inspection.

The only suggested way to visually inspect the clip-on weak points is to remove the valve cover($$$$$)

Last edited by namelessman; 03-20-2019 at 01:10 AM.
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  #181  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:44 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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A friend with a X3 forwarded a few references to me.

The first one is a comment from another N20/N26 TC thread:

https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/08/07.../#comment-5930

"On the otherhand, coming from polymer industry, Ive seen alot challenge that the old rail were white once and turn orange over time, plastics do turn yellowish overtime due to degredation, it is a result of polymer chains breaking down which is what we will see in aged plastics, yellowing headlights or in our case the timing chain rail. However, it will not turn orange even it is summerged in oil. I do believe BMW revised part to uncolored for a reason. Adding pigments into any plastics reduce the melt flow of the material which results in decreasing the mechanical properties of the materials. The revised uncolored rail suppose to last better. Adding pigments into plastics causes the pigment to break down polymer chains during the injection molding of the part or extrusion which is a 2 step process(color compounding), when I say 2 steps it means 2 heat history applied to the material to further degredates the materials.

P/S: The "white color" of the rail is the virgin color of material, I haven't touch them in person but I strongly believe it is made of unfilled Polyamide."

Another reference is to a X3 thread about N20/N26 TC issue. And post#25 is the first time a poster confirmed a CEL and a camshaft timing fault code, 130E20 "Intake Camshaft offset angle to crankcase outside tolerance", for this TC issue.

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...1482736&page=2
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  #182  
Old 05-17-2019, 05:51 PM
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https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1614899

Another thread of a N20 TC failure.

BMWNA really should consider extending the N20/N26 TC ELW to 15 years/150000 miles, especially since BMWNA is not issuing a recall on this.
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  #183  
Old 07-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
A friend with a X3 forwarded a few references to me.

The first one is a comment from another N20/N26 TC thread:

https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/08/07.../#comment-5930

"On the otherhand, coming from polymer industry, Ive seen alot challenge that the old rail were white once and turn orange over time, plastics do turn yellowish overtime due to degredation, it is a result of polymer chains breaking down which is what we will see in aged plastics, yellowing headlights or in our case the timing chain rail. However, it will not turn orange even it is summerged in oil. I do believe BMW revised part to uncolored for a reason. Adding pigments into any plastics reduce the melt flow of the material which results in decreasing the mechanical properties of the materials. The revised uncolored rail suppose to last better. Adding pigments into plastics causes the pigment to break down polymer chains during the injection molding of the part or extrusion which is a 2 step process(color compounding), when I say 2 steps it means 2 heat history applied to the material to further degredates the materials.

P/S: The "white color" of the rail is the virgin color of material, I haven't touch them in person but I strongly believe it is made of unfilled Polyamide."

Another reference is to a X3 thread about N20/N26 TC issue. And post#25 is the first time a poster confirmed a CEL and a camshaft timing fault code, 130E20 "Intake Camshaft offset angle to crankcase outside tolerance", for this TC issue.

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...1482736&page=2
I thought this was refuted already because, if you look that the video BMW provided on the initial batch of N20's, the color of the guide rail is already white. Skip to around 1:05 mark:


Last edited by TopQuark; 07-11-2019 at 11:28 AM.
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  #184  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopQuark View Post
I thought this was refuted already because, if you look that the video BMW provided on the initial batch of N20's, the color of the guide rail is already white. Skip to around 1:05 mark:
My guess is that the comment from bmwtechnician implies the color oigment is even further reduced with latest batch, e.g. white color itself can be from pigment.
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  #185  
Old Yesterday, 11:28 AM
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Add me to the list. Mine just went out at 68,500 miles. It was 5 days out of the 7 year warranty but BMW NA agreed to cover thankfully. Car pre-owned from 26k miles and was low mileage and well taken care of prior. ASS coded off from beginning and I drove it pretty easy with oil changes 8k-10k intervals.
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  #186  
Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by backpackerx View Post
Add me to the list. Mine just went out at 68,500 miles. It was 5 days out of the 7 year warranty but BMW NA agreed to cover thankfully. Car pre-owned from 26k miles and was low mileage and well taken care of prior. ASS coded off from beginning and I drove it pretty easy with oil changes 8k-10k intervals.
Thanks for feedback! N20/26 with xDrive is high load application, and this data point shows 8k OCI and ASS off do not help with that.

Well BMWNA will present its resolution in the the first settlement conference in 2.5 weeks, so hopefully BMWNA will man up and do the right thing for N20/N26 owners.
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  #187  
Old Today, 02:52 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Thanks for feedback! N20/26 with xDrive is high load application, and this data point shows 8k OCI and ASS off do not help with that.

Well BMWNA will present its resolution in the the first settlement conference in 2.5 weeks, so hopefully BMWNA will man up and do the right thing for N20/N26 owners.
How are you defining a high load application?
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  #188  
Old Today, 05:31 AM
imtjm imtjm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1614899

Another thread of a N20 TC failure.

BMWNA really should consider extending the N20/N26 TC ELW to 15 years/150000 miles, especially since BMWNA is not issuing a recall on this.
why? 15/yr/150k argument has no basis to it. Yes, the claimants are asking for 15yr/150k, but those are numbers based on no scientific basis like failure rate, service life, etc. Why not just argue the vehicle should have bumper to bumper unlimited mile warranty in perpetuity.
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  #189  
Old Today, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
why? 15/yr/150k argument has no basis to it.
15 years/150k miles is the PZEV/TZEV warranty interval (for cars registered in U.S. states that adhere to CARB regulations for this warranty coverage).

I think what namelessman is conveying is that timing chain guide failure can trigger a CEL, and also affect the operation of the camshaft position sensor. In such cases, the PZEV/TZEV warranty applies.
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Last edited by gkr778; Today at 01:00 PM.
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  #190  
Old Today, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
5 year/150k miles is the PZEV/TZEV warranty interval (for cars registered in U.S. states that adhere to CARB regulations for this warranty coverage).

I think what namelessman is conveying is that timing chain guide failure can trigger a CEL, and also affect the operation of the camshaft position sensor. In such cases, the PZEV/TZEV warranty applies.
That is correct, BMWNA offers 15 years/150000 miles PZEV emission warranty on N20/N26, and model year 2016 N6 does have TC included.

Since BMWNA is already confident that MY2016 N26 TC can last 15 years/150000 miles, why not apply to all PZEV N26 instead of just MY2016?
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  #191  
Old Today, 11:54 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
How are you defining a high load application?
Application that can lead to high(er) rpm, e.g. tolling, xDrive(loads from all wheels), sustained autobahn speed, uphill, sustained spirited driving, heavier weight(e.g. x3)
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  #192  
Old Today, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by imtjm View Post
why? 15/yr/150k argument has no basis to it. Yes, the claimants are asking for 15yr/150k, but those are numbers based on no scientific basis like failure rate, service life, etc. Why not just argue the vehicle should have bumper to bumper unlimited mile warranty in perpetuity.
The claimants supposedly ask for 10 years/150000 miles, but since BMWNA already provides 15 years/150000 miles TC coverage for MY16 N26, that warranty should be extended to all N26.
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  #193  
Old Today, 12:38 PM
John MS John MS is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Application that can lead to high(er) rpm, e.g. tolling, xDrive(loads from all wheels), sustained autobahn speed, uphill, sustained spirited driving, heavier weight(e.g. x3)
How does an N20/26 with xDrive result in a high load application? Presumably much higher than an N20/26 with rwd. That high load is not reflected in published mpg numbers.
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  #194  
Old Today, 01:12 PM
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How does an N20/26 with xDrive result in a high load application? Presumably much higher than an N20/26 with rwd. That high load is not reflected in published mpg numbers.
Local foreman specifically mentioned xDrive and X3 as high load(and most N20/N26 in the shop for TC issues have been those variants)

My thinking is that xDrive + transfer case can induce more variations of rpm, and TC can be subject to more accelerate/decelerate than just RWD without transfer case.
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  #195  
Old Today, 02:41 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Application that can lead to high(er) rpm, e.g. tolling, xDrive(loads from all wheels), sustained autobahn speed, uphill, sustained spirited driving, heavier weight(e.g. x3)
My question should have said why is the car you cited a high load application. Itís just an xDrive.
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  #196  
Old Today, 03:58 PM
John MS John MS is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Local foreman specifically mentioned xDrive and X3 as high load(and most N20/N26 in the shop for TC issues have been those variants)

My thinking is that xDrive + transfer case can induce more variations of rpm, and TC can be subject to more accelerate/decelerate than just RWD without transfer case.
How can the transfer case induce more rpms? I've driven loaner 320i and 328i xdrives and have not noticed anything like that. If those engines were working harder the published mpg would be much lower. It isn't.
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