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  #101  
Old 05-29-2020, 05:33 AM
ctorrey ctorrey is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
The 36 month brake fluid change starts counting when the car is made, not when it's bought. So, get that done during the initial lease period. Oil changes are 10k miles/12 months. So, you should get getting one those for free right near the end of the original 36-month lease period.
I just dropped my car off today for this exact service (and annual CBS maintenance for low mileage vehicles). The in service date for the car was 5/30/17, so sliding it in under the wire! It's a lease and would normally be returned this weekend, but I went with the extension. On my own for scheduled maintenance, but shouldn't be an issue now.
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Last edited by ctorrey; 05-29-2020 at 05:34 AM.
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  #102  
Old 05-29-2020, 08:12 AM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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Thanks for letting us all know.

Sounds like six month lease extensions are simply a convenience without specific financial benefit beyond avoidance of committing to a new lease or purchase now.

There is always the possibility of purchase discounts at the end of a lease-end extension, but BMWFS is saying, "don't count on it."

So if one believes purchase will be exercised, BMWFS is, at this time, saying, "buy it now." Which I would be disinclined to do.

Which brings us all back full circle to what Quack was exploring in this thread from his first post.

My most significant takeaway from this very informative discussion is: The future is uncertain; all important decisions in life are made on the basis of insufficient data. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Drive what you love.
I agree this has been an informative discussion. You're 100% correct that the extensions are a convenience - the BMWFS rep actually used that term when they told me about the extension option "for your convenience we will extend up to 6 months". Of course, it would be convenient for them too, as I'd keep paying them and they delay having to deal with my car coming off lease and being sold at auction presumably for significantly less than residual.

Also agreed on the purchase option- they want customers to take the bait on that now, especially with the allocations being wiped out and dealers in various states of being open/closed around the country. The purchase avoids them having to deal with the car coming back at all, and they still make money despite the $6k incentive (I buy for $27k but the trade in value is around $21k, Private party around $25k).

In the end, the current situation has really made me take a hard look at my vehicle choices. Autoputzer made the point earlier that for someone who drives as little as I do (I've got less than 14k miles in 3 years), leasing a new BMW is a rather expensive thing to do (though I can twist it to make it seem "cheaper" in the short term than buying). Now I am working from home and not even driving my 6 mile RT commute, so it makes even less sense to have a $50k+ car sitting in the garage getting bird **** on it (apartments built over top of the garage level which has openings for air flow).

It is true that life can be short and we should drive fun exciting cars like BMWs if possible, but as I work in finance, I am unfortunately cursed with looking at everything through the lens of "does this make financial sense". We can all try to justify the new car smell but in the end... probably can't at least not in my situation. I'm now considering finding a relatively inexpensive used vehicle, paying it off in 3-4 years, and using the savings of that vs. leasing a new BMW to stick aside for the eventual itch for something fun... maybe a Z4.

At any rate, I've got until July 5 to decide to buy the 330e, and until July 8 to decide on leasing a new BMW, so plenty of time to change my mind a few dozen times.
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  #103  
Old 05-29-2020, 08:44 AM
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car sitting in the garage getting bird **** on it (apartments built over top of the garage level which has openings for air flow).

Plastic owls, rubber snakes, and bird spikes on all the horizontal surfaces in the carport.

screens over the vent holes if it's a garage (with garage doors).

https://birdspikes.store/product/ant...xoCwfEQAvD_BwE
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  #104  
Old 05-29-2020, 08:56 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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In the end, the current situation has really made me take a hard look at my vehicle choices. Autoputzer made the point earlier that for someone who drives as little as I do (I've got less than 14k miles in 3 years), leasing a new BMW is a rather expensive thing to do (though I can twist it to make it seem "cheaper" in the short term than buying). Now I am working from home and not even driving my 6 mile RT commute, so it makes even less sense to have a $50k+ car sitting in the garage getting bird **** on it (apartments built over top of the garage level which has openings for air flow).

It is true that life can be short and we should drive fun exciting cars like BMWs if possible, but as I work in finance, I am unfortunately cursed with looking at everything through the lens of "does this make financial sense". We can all try to justify the new car smell but in the end... probably can't at least not in my situation. I'm now considering finding a relatively inexpensive used vehicle, paying it off in 3-4 years, and using the savings of that vs. leasing a new BMW to stick aside for the eventual itch for something fun... maybe a Z4.

At any rate, I've got until July 5 to decide to buy the 330e, and until July 8 to decide on leasing a new BMW, so plenty of time to change my mind a few dozen times.
My most recent lease started October 2019. 7,500 miles/year. As May comes to an end, I have 2,400 miles on the car after 7 months. $399/month plus annual tags. Drive off was the friggin' lease fee plus tags. I don't need a spreadsheet (though I admit I have one) to tell me this is sheer folly, with two paid-for Jags seeping away in the garage, no need for a commuter car, even pre-COVID, as we are retired.

Most of the yachts at the marina where my boat is docked remain in their slips, rarely if ever used. All year long.

All of this is, of course, sheer folly in a nation where half the households don't have enough cash to cover a $400 emergency expense.

High line cars that one pays for out-of-pocket with after-tax dollars are not a smart economic decision. Especially if one is trying to save for retirement or the education of children at today's insane tuition rates. As my late father said when we purchased that first BMW back in 1968, this is a dividend. Meaning, a luxury and a choice to expend "surplus" funds that are not required for more pressing needs, current or future.

The way to get rich is to spend as if you are poor. But the way to live richly, well, that's a more complicated set of calculations -- calculations that transcend spreadsheets, in my experience. Certainly, living without financial worry is an essential component of living richly. Sometimes that means celebrating the removal of a BMW from one's stable. YMMV.
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  #105  
Old 05-29-2020, 09:26 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post

The way to get rich is to spend as if you are poor. But the way to live richly, well, that's a more complicated set of calculations -- calculations that transcend spreadsheets, in my experience. Certainly, living without financial worry is an essential component of living richly. Sometimes that means celebrating the removal of a BMW from one's stable. YMMV.
I do what the voices and the spreadsheets tell me to do.

I'd like a new BMW every three years as much as anybody. But, when I quantify how much that would cost me, I don't do it. I look up what my cars are worth on the anniversaries of their purchases, and I track what I spend in maintenance. "Repairs" are "unscheduled maintenance."

When I was driving Nissan Sentra's 20k to 25k miles/year, keeping a car to 100k miles really didn't save a lot. Econoboxes tend to depreciate at closer to a flat rate than luxury cars.

When I was single, I'd live on about half of what I made. The future Frau Putzer spent just about everything she made, and she made more than I did. There were some knock-down-drag-out fights to get our "consumption/after-tax earned income" down to 0.75 or 0.8. If it didn't get there, I was going to divorce her... really.

I count car deprecation as part of consumption. Doing that, you ask the question "New car or awesome vacation this year?"

Actually, on Planet Putzer an old car in good shape is a status symbol. It's a sign of diligence and intelligence. The converse of that is also true. The "new car or awesome vacation" question is also a lot easier to answer when the old cars in the garage are in good shape.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 05-29-2020 at 09:40 AM.
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  #106  
Old 05-29-2020, 04:48 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Most of the yachts at the marina where my boat is docked remain in their slips, rarely if ever used. All year long.
Reminds me of that Trojan that stayed in my wallet all through High School. Yes, it was a waste of a buck (or whatever Trojans cost back in the last Millennium). But the ROR was huge, since the Hope it engendered was PRICELESS.

Some things in life are worth having, not because you WOULD but because you COULD.
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  #107  
Old 05-29-2020, 04:56 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Reminds me of that Trojan that stayed in my wallet all through High School. Yes, it was a waste of a buck (or whatever Trojans cost back in the last Millennium). But the ROR was huge, since the Hope it engendered was PRICELESS.

Some things in life are worth having, not because you WOULD but because you COULD.
Like tires, condoms have a USE BY date. If you'd got lucky, you might have also been a baby daddy.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 05-29-2020 at 05:10 PM.
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  #108  
Old 05-29-2020, 05:08 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Reminds me of that Trojan that stayed in my wallet all through High School. Yes, it was a waste of a buck (or whatever Trojans cost back in the last Millennium). But the ROR was huge, since the Hope it engendered was PRICELESS.

Some things in life are worth having, not because you WOULD but because you COULD.
LOL. I, too, had the wallet armor at the ready for the moment that never... came, so to speak. Hope waiting for experience.

And you're so right on the yacht thing. It is often said that 90% of boat ownership is having the key in your pocket -- the idea that, in theory, you could be out of the boring meeting and on the high seas.

Many-a-time I sat through how-many-angels-can-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin endless meetings, thinking about how much I was gonna enjoy the snarl of the exhaust note and the surge of that butter-smooth torque on the ride home to the coast... once this endless meeting is over.

High line cars helped me zip over the finish line of my career. The lease payments were dollars well-spent.

Glad you're getting a new ride Quack. Built just the way you wished it to be. With a killer deal as the cherry on top.
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  #109  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:52 AM
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I decided to lease another M4 and agreed to a deal with the GSM of dealer. I'm scheduled to sign it this weekend.

$85,135 MSRP
$74,919 sale price (12% discount before incentives)
36 months
10k miles
.00118 MF
$3250 incentives
$500 BMW CCA rebate
$200 Doc fee
$300 DMV fee

$702/month if I pay tax and fees up front, or $854/month with $0 due at signing.
Signed and picked up the car yesterday. Here's the old and new ones together.
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  #110  
Old 05-31-2020, 09:20 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Signed and picked up the car yesterday. Here's the old and new ones together.
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  #111  
Old 06-01-2020, 08:49 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Signed and picked up the car yesterday. Here's the old and new ones together.


San Marino blue. Nice!


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  #112  
Old 06-01-2020, 11:40 AM
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San Marino blue. Nice!


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San Marino with Silverstone full leather! I've never had a light colored leather before. I hope it doesn't stain easily.
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  #113  
Old 06-01-2020, 05:41 PM
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Heritage Edition?
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  #114  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:35 AM
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Heritage Edition?
No, regular M4 ZCP. I was looking at Heritage Edition cars until I realized none of them have Executive Package, so it would be missing HUD, top view camera, upgraded LEDs.
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  #115  
Old 06-02-2020, 09:00 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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San Marino with Silverstone full leather! I've never had a light colored leather before. I hope it doesn't stain easily.


It does....I know from experience. However, I found that wiping down the seats every other week with a good quality vinyl/leather cleaner keeps the seats looking almost new. And I was anal about wiping down stains as soon as I saw them. My favorite product is Pinnacle Natural Brilliance Vinyl/leather cleaner. Enjoy the new m4.


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  #116  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:30 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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My Dakota leather works OK with Lexol pH balanced cleaner and disinfectant wipes/alcohol, but it does not absorb Lexol leather conditioner that well.
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  #117  
Old 06-16-2020, 02:21 PM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post

The way to get rich is to spend as if you are poor. But the way to live richly, well, that's a more complicated set of calculations -- calculations that transcend spreadsheets, in my experience. Certainly, living without financial worry is an essential component of living richly. Sometimes that means celebrating the removal of a BMW from one's stable. YMMV.
Revisiting this thread- yes this is very true. I am pretty much at the point to remove the BMW- dealers are just not willing to deal it seems, and I am finding aggressive deals on the Fusion Energi which, other than having a different blue logo on the hood and about 3 seconds slower 0-60 is actually pretty comparable to the 330e. Leather, moonroof, heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel- with some huge incentives.

For those who have done lease returns, after you've made the final payment can you turn it in at anytime? I technically have until July 8 but can probably get into a new car sooner than that. I never got the ding-o-meter and my originating BMW center has not been good about getting back to me.

My car is telling me I need to do the brake fluid service- should I take it in for that and then just leave it there?
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  #118  
Old 06-16-2020, 02:45 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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I am pretty much at the point to remove the BMW- dealers are just not willing to deal it seems, and I am finding aggressive deals on the Fusion Energi which, other than having a different blue logo on the hood and about 3 seconds slower 0-60 is actually pretty comparable to the 330e. Leather, moonroof, heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel- with some huge incentives.

For those who have done lease returns, after you've made the final payment can you turn it in at anytime? I technically have until July 8 but can probably get into a new car sooner than that. I never got the ding-o-meter and my originating BMW center has not been good about getting back to me.

My car is telling me I need to do the brake fluid service- should I take it in for that and then just leave it there?
If you visit your dealer for free required maintenance, that would be a good time to request a lease-end final inspection and, yes, if it is convenient for you, to turn in the car and get your name signed off the registration.

As to the deeper and broader issue of the "value" of driving a BMW, this is purely subjective. IMHO, too many people who really couldn't afford a BMW leased or purchased them. Still do. Especially in the USA, living "the life," even if one can't afford it, is common, as evidenced by the high levels of consumer debt and low levels of retirement savings. It is also what has kept our economy, pre-COVID, rolling along. Consumer spending is a key component to the apparent economic "prosperity" enjoyed in the USA.

High line cars are an indulgence. If you want one, and can afford one, with, or without, an aggressive deal, then drive one because you can. A good deal just makes it that much sweeter, but should never be a financially necessary condition -- only a wise choice.

I have mentioned elsewhere that a famous bankruptcy attorney used to say buy the most house you can afford and drive the cheapest car you can stand. He lived in a mansion and drove Chevys and Toyotas. His wife drove a VW.

I like nice cars. But I would never drive one I couldn't easily afford, and I would never place driving a high line car before having sufficient resources to cover my other needs and vices, many times over. Ever. A good car is easy to find. A car you will love, for whatever need it fills, Ford or Ferrari, well, that's an earned dividend.

Just so it "smells" new.
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  #119  
Old 06-16-2020, 03:16 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by ams3141 View Post
Revisiting this thread- yes this is very true. I am pretty much at the point to remove the BMW- dealers are just not willing to deal it seems, and I am finding aggressive deals on the Fusion Energi which, other than having a different blue logo on the hood and about 3 seconds slower 0-60 is actually pretty comparable to the 330e. Leather, moonroof, heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel- with some huge incentives.
So the difference of 330e and Fusion Energi of 6 seconds versus 9 seconds 0-60? That will translate to noticeable difference in daily driving experience.
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  #120  
Old 06-16-2020, 03:18 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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So the difference of 330e and Fusion Energi of 6 seconds versus 9 seconds 0-60? That will translate to noticeable difference in daily driving experience.
No noticeable difference in daily driving experience as long as it smells new.
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  #121  
Old 06-16-2020, 06:44 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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No noticeable difference in daily driving experience as long as it smells new.
Maybe a Tesla Model 3 off-menu base configuration*$35k MSRP?) can be considered, although Tesla leases are quite expensive.
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  #122  
Old 06-17-2020, 06:17 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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My car is telling me I need to do the brake fluid service- should I take it in for that and then just leave it there?
Brake fluid is due three years after the car is built. You get free maintenance for three years after the car is bought/leased. You're on the hook for any delinquent maintenance when you turn the car in. Just to be safe, take it in for the free brake fluid change before the three years of leasing is up.
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  #123  
Old 06-17-2020, 06:29 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
If you visit your dealer for free required maintenance, that would be a good time to request a lease-end final inspection and, yes, if it is convenient for you, to turn in the car and get your name signed off the registration.

As to the deeper and broader issue of the "value" of driving a BMW, this is purely subjective. IMHO, too many people who really couldn't afford a BMW leased or purchased them. Still do. Especially in the USA, living "the life," even if one can't afford it, is common, as evidenced by the high levels of consumer debt and low levels of retirement savings. It is also what has kept our economy, pre-COVID, rolling along. Consumer spending is a key component to the apparent economic "prosperity" enjoyed in the USA.

High line cars are an indulgence. If you want one, and can afford one, with, or without, an aggressive deal, then drive one because you can. A good deal just makes it that much sweeter, but should never be a financially necessary condition -- only a wise choice.

I have mentioned elsewhere that a famous bankruptcy attorney used to say buy the most house you can afford and drive the cheapest car you can stand. He lived in a mansion and drove Chevys and Toyotas. His wife drove a VW.

I like nice cars. But I would never drive one I couldn't easily afford, and I would never place driving a high line car before having sufficient resources to cover my other needs and vices, many times over. Ever. A good car is easy to find. A car you will love, for whatever need it fills, Ford or Ferrari, well, that's an earned dividend.

Just so it "smells" new.
When we were working, my favorite financial metric was "consumption/after-tax earned income ratio." Mine was below 0.5 before marriage. Frau Putzer's was hovering around 1.0 before marriage. There were a lot of knock down drag out fights to get it to 0.75 or 0.8 during marriage.

I itemize all our spending. I include car depreciation as part of spending or consumption. That and maintaining the aforementioned ratio causes one to ask questions alike "BMW or Toyota?" and "New car or vacation?"

A less useful but fun financial metric is book value of cars/total net worth ratio. It was probably near 1.0 when I bought my first new car two years after college (Nissan Sentra SE-R). I got it down to 0.01 (1%) a few years ago, but I was in between BMW's at the time (one totaled, one on order)/

Last edited by Autoputzer; 06-17-2020 at 06:31 AM.
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  #124  
Old 06-17-2020, 06:39 AM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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So the difference of 330e and Fusion Energi of 6 seconds versus 9 seconds 0-60? That will translate to noticeable difference in daily driving experience.
I think Fusion energi is around 7.9/8.0 to 60. G20 is what, 5.6 sec? My F30 closer to 5.9/6.0, so maybe 2 seconds. But how often am I flooring a hybrid for a 0-60 run? Most of my driving is stop and go with speed limits of 25-35 mph (so naturally I'm usually between 40-50 )

They weigh about the same- biggest difference is probably the lack of a turbo in the Ford, plus I think their 2.0 ICE is Atkinson cycle, which I'm sure trades acceleration for efficiency.
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  #125  
Old 06-17-2020, 06:55 AM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
If you visit your dealer for free required maintenance, that would be a good time to request a lease-end final inspection and, yes, if it is convenient for you, to turn in the car and get your name signed off the registration.

As to the deeper and broader issue of the "value" of driving a BMW, this is purely subjective. IMHO, too many people who really couldn't afford a BMW leased or purchased them. Still do. Especially in the USA, living "the life," even if one can't afford it, is common, as evidenced by the high levels of consumer debt and low levels of retirement savings. It is also what has kept our economy, pre-COVID, rolling along. Consumer spending is a key component to the apparent economic "prosperity" enjoyed in the USA.

High line cars are an indulgence. If you want one, and can afford one, with, or without, an aggressive deal, then drive one because you can. A good deal just makes it that much sweeter, but should never be a financially necessary condition -- only a wise choice.

I have mentioned elsewhere that a famous bankruptcy attorney used to say buy the most house you can afford and drive the cheapest car you can stand. He lived in a mansion and drove Chevys and Toyotas. His wife drove a VW.

I like nice cars. But I would never drive one I couldn't easily afford, and I would never place driving a high line car before having sufficient resources to cover my other needs and vices, many times over. Ever. A good car is easy to find. A car you will love, for whatever need it fills, Ford or Ferrari, well, that's an earned dividend.

Just so it "smells" new.
Totally agree. My whole dilemma was not that I couldn't afford a new BMW lease, but that I didn't need a new BMW, especially with my current driving habits, or lack thereof. It just didn't make sense to spend on monthly payments what the dealers were quoting me- which was significantly higher than the current lease. I think with the other brands, I can get a lease significantly lower than my current lease. So not only do I enjoy the new car smell that is so addicting, but I can also enjoy seeing more money in the bank. A win-win I hope.

I've subscribed to the thought that being "rich" is more than just about driving a BMW, owning a big house, etc. - but rather that you have the freedom and choice to do those things. That of course means you can choose not to- its more the idea of being able to, rather than actually doing it. I remember once reading about a millionaire who was driving a 10-year old Toyota Camry when he made his first million. That doesn't work for everyone (probably won't catch me driving a 10 year old Camry!), but to each his/her own!

I've certainly enjoyed driving the Bimmer for the last 3 years, no doubt it is a great car. I've no doubt another one will end up in the garage eventually... maybe even in the next three years.
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