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  #1  
Old 12-27-2016, 11:52 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Quick question = Cost to replace Water Pump @ Dealer? ('12 35iXdrive)

Hello folks, happy holidays to all!

My X5 sits at the dealership with a broken water impeller pump. The service advisor is yet to call me with a cost to do the replacement, but I want to be prepared for the conversation.

My vehicle is just out of CPO warranty, and although I had taken it in right before the end of the warranty period for this very issue, they said this is unrelated and that they will not cover it under warranty.

In any case, they have been really good to me so far, so before I make a fuss out of this, I want to get an idea of how much should I be paying them to do the work.

Does anyone here have any experience on how much I should be charged for this? What should be the price of a OEM water pump?

Thanks in advance!




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Old 12-27-2016, 11:58 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
Hello folks, happy holidays to all!

My X5 sits at the dealership with a broken water impeller pump. The service advisor is yet to call me with a cost to do the replacement, but I want to be prepared for the conversation.

My vehicle is just out of CPO warranty, and although I had taken it in right before the end of the warranty period for this very issue, they said this is unrelated and that they will not cover it under warranty.

In any case, they have been really good to me so far, so before I make a fuss out of this, I want to get an idea of how much should I be paying them to do the work.

Does anyone here have any experience on how much I should be charged for this? What should be the price of a OEM water pump?

Thanks in advance!




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Go to one of the online part database below and input your VIN...the find the diagram for your water pump.

Once you have the 11 digit BMW part number...you can type "BMW xx xx x xxx xxx" into a google search box to find sellers/vendors...and you can get an idea of how much the part costs. But do take into account...that the BMW dealership will usually have a higher markup than online vendors...but you may be able to use the info about the going cost of a water pump and negotiate it down.

I have no clue what labor costs would be on this job.

Feel free to save all 3 of these sites below to your FAVORITES or Bookmarks for future references:
  1. http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/
  2. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select
  3. http://www.etkbmw.com

{item #1 is the water pump in the diagram and link to the part database below}

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E7...mp_thermostat/

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  #3  
Old 12-27-2016, 12:02 PM
jason0 jason0 is offline
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pump is $500, thermostat is $100, coolant probably $50.... so $650 for parts.
Labor is probably 3 hours, so probably around $1,000 for all.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:03 PM
basilray basilray is offline
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Not sure how useful/relevant it is, but Repair Pal can give you some rough cost estimates for various jobs in your area. In my area, I ran the numbers for a water pump, and it was $950 - $1270. I'd guess a dealer will come out on the high-side of that.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:22 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Thanks folks. Super useful.

got the factory specifications for labor and it comes right under 2 hours. $1000 sounds about right for what to expect them to want to charge.

I'll report back when I hear from the SA


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Old 12-27-2016, 01:34 PM
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What do you mean you "took it in for this EXACT issue"?

What were the symptoms at that point (when it WAS under warranty)?
Why didn't they fix it then?
Why did you drive it away if it was still having the symptoms?

If all that is documented, I would drop that documentation on the Service Managers desk and ask him this question again.
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Old 12-27-2016, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
What do you mean you "took it in for this EXACT issue"?

What were the symptoms at that point (when it WAS under warranty)?
Why didn't they fix it then?
Why did you drive it away if it was still having the symptoms?

If all that is documented, I would drop that documentation on the Service Managers desk and ask him this question again.

My thought as well....

How did they determine a "broken impeller"? Have they already removed the pump?? Or just lip flapping?

If the water pump was failing before and now fully failed, think about how to back up that 'story'. If it is, indeed, a "broken impeller" then it becomes more of a challenge to prove ("It was partially broken before"??)

If they back off the broken impeller, and say it was an electrical failure in the pump, your earlier complaints may connect....
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Old 12-27-2016, 02:29 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
What do you mean you "took it in for this EXACT issue"?

What were the symptoms at that point (when it WAS under warranty)?
Why didn't they fix it then?
Why did you drive it away if it was still having the symptoms?

If all that is documented, I would drop that documentation on the Service Managers desk and ask him this question again.


See responses below

Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
My thought as well....



How did they determine a "broken impeller"? Have they already removed the pump?? Or just lip flapping?



If the water pump was failing before and now fully failed, think about how to back up that 'story'. If it is, indeed, a "broken impeller" then it becomes more of a challenge to prove ("It was partially broken before"??)



If they back off the broken impeller, and say it was an electrical failure in the pump, your earlier complaints may connect....

When the car was coming up against the CPO warranty expiration date, it was certain to me that the electric water pump was a ticking time bomb @94k miles.

Symptoms were iffy, but to simplify I would say that the fan would come on whenever I drove the car hard... to explain it best, I'd say I over-exaggerated the symptoms and told the SA to have it triple checked hoping they would warranty the part and labor.

Their response was that water pump, thermostat and fan were working up to specifications... I must admit that when the real symptoms appeared, the difference was significant (fan on in 2/5 second bursts every 3 to 5 minutes) vs. what I experienced before. I took it in the next day after this symptoms appeared, this past Thursday.

I do like the angle about the electrical failure vs. impeller failure. The exact words from the SA were "Seized Impeller" - I am planning to talk to the service manager and work things out with him.

*Update: Just now the SA called and he and I ran down the list of details of the repair quote.

Parts $716,56 (Pump, Bolts, Coolant + 10% tax)
Labor 4.6 hs $575

I happen to have heard from a reputable source that the manual specifies right under 2 hs for the replacement of the water pump. With them quoting more than twice that, I may have room to bargain with them...

Prices @ECS are $475 for pump and bolts, and $615 for the whole kit (pump, bolts, thermostat and Coolant)... both BMW Genuine.

Having this as a guide, I know they are squeezing about $400/500 extra out pf the deal, and would be reasonable to work out something with them to lower the total bill.

I will update this tomorrow after Intalk with them.



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  #9  
Old 12-27-2016, 03:12 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
The exact words from the SA were "Seized Impeller
Seized impeller means no motor rotation and no rotating varying magnetic field to generate counter-EMF means current limited only by the resistance of the stator windings will overheat the windings, overload the power supply or melt the fusible link fuse.

My wet canned rotor and stator AC water pumps were rated at 500 KW each and there were six of them, and one was always on except in most unusual circumstances.

Some one does not know what seized impeller implies.
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Old 12-27-2016, 04:04 PM
cvgtpc1 cvgtpc1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
Having this as a guide, I know they are squeezing about $400/500 extra out pf the deal, and would be reasonable to work out something with them to lower the total bill.

I will update this tomorrow after Intalk with them.
My indy shop quote the book labor hours on a job last week and dropped $500 since they didn't need it all. Does a dealership do that? Guessing not but don't know.
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  #11  
Old 12-27-2016, 04:25 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Quick question = Cost to replace Water Pump @ Dealer? ('12 35iXdrive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvgtpc1 View Post
My indy shop quote the book labor hours on a job last week and dropped $500 since they didn't need it all. Does a dealership do that? Guessing not but don't know.


Not sure what that means... what was the original quote?

Below is the screen capture of this procedure: it calls for 23 Flat Rate Units. 1 hour = 12 FRUs




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Old 12-27-2016, 06:20 PM
ard ard is offline
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There is a continuum of symptoms of water pump failures, that seem to dramatically escalate.

When they said 'working normally at this time', I would opine that all they did was see there is no code and the car didnt overheat. But it could still have been sporadically speeding up as it began failing.

How much are you already on the hook for????? In other words, have you already bent over to the tune of "lets just put $200 in as an estimate"?? This precludes you from saying "I'll have it towed to my buddy using my AAA towing benefit, you guys are crooks?

Books is under 2 hrs and they flat out lie with 4.6... parts you can understand the mark up- they have to stock parts, make some profit, blah blah...but to apply a 2.5 multiplier to an already inflated $125 per hour labor rate is just thievery.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 12-27-2016, 06:41 PM
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Note that a BMW electric water pump requires righteous storage requirements and requirements prior to first run.
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:51 PM
basilray basilray is offline
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I'm guessing they're marking up labor by adding the separate book time for the thermostat. Book on the Diesel is like 3.5hrs for the thermostat, so I'd guess it's about an hour less on the gassers without the EGR cooler in the way (assuming I understand the differences between the N52/55 and the M57).

But the labor makes sense. They're hitting you with the water pump labor and the thermostat labor, hoping you don't realize they're basically double-charging you, as it's pretty much the same disassembly and reassembly to do both components. So really, I'd specifically ask if they're charging you the labor time separately for the thermostat.

Then again, I've been wrong a whole bunch of times today.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:05 AM
pshovest pshovest is offline
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Before you commit to the repair, ask the SA to give you the number for BMWNA Customer Service so you can ask request goodwill replacement. I did this when my E39 needed its DSC module replaced. To my surprise the SA said they would call for me if I preferred. An hour later they called back saying NA would supply the part, ~$800 as I recall, if I would pay the 1.5 hr installation.
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Old 12-28-2016, 05:09 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
...How much are you already on the hook for????? In other words, have you already bent over to the tune of "lets just put $200 in as an estimate"?? This precludes you from saying "I'll have it towed to my buddy using my AAA towing benefit, you guys are crooks?

Books is under 2 hrs and they flat out lie with 4.6... parts you can understand the mark up- they have to stock parts, make some profit, blah blah...but to apply a 2.5 multiplier to an already inflated $125 per hour labor rate is just thievery.
Not a dime out of pocket, but would expect a minimum $50 to $150 diagnosis fee which I would pay for without fuss given the fact they gave me a brand new X5 loaner a week ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by basilray View Post
I'm guessing they're marking up labor by adding the separate book time for the thermostat...

But the labor makes sense. They're hitting you with the water pump labor and the thermostat labor, hoping you don't realize they're basically double-charging you, as it's pretty much the same disassembly and reassembly to do both components. So really, I'd specifically ask if they're charging you the labor time separately for the thermostat.

Then again, I've been wrong a whole bunch of times today.
They did not include the thermostat in the parts list for the repair so they will have a hard time convincing me with that argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
Before you commit to the repair, ask the SA to give you the number for BMWNA Customer Service so you can ask request goodwill replacement. I did this when my E39 needed its DSC module replaced. To my surprise the SA said they would call for me if I preferred. An hour later they called back saying NA would supply the part, ~$800 as I recall, if I would pay the 1.5 hr installation.

This is exactly what my information source suggested I do. Said that he expected this to happen only in countries where dealerships are only just as crooked as politicians... was surprised to see this happen here.

I will have my chat with the SA and the service manager and ask all the questions. Then ask to talk to BMW NA for goodwill and see where things go from there.

In any case, I am aware that this is an already expensive repair at $900 bucks which is what I expected to pay... but @ $1414 this is about 10% of the street value of the vehicle. Time for it to go me thinks.



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Old 12-28-2016, 05:29 AM
jason0 jason0 is offline
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Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
In any case, I am aware that this is an already expensive repair at $900 bucks which is what I expected to pay... but @ $1414 this is about 10% of the street value of the vehicle. Time for it to go me thinks.
I think a '12 X5 should be closer to 20k right? Anyways, if you can't get BMW to help; I think an indy would could do this for less than $1,000 easily. Unfortunately its a very common repair.
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:21 AM
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unfortunately the pump is electric and double what the old ones went for. Had mine done under wartty recently at 40k miles. Id say same job 500 less at indy but call 1st
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:39 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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unfortunately the pump is electric and double what the old ones went for. Had mine done under wartty recently at 40k miles. Id say same job 500 less at indy but call 1st


Are you quoting the indy price with or without the parts?


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Old 12-28-2016, 09:23 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
In any case, I am aware that this is an already expensive repair at $900 bucks which is what I expected to pay... but @ $1414 this is about 10% of the street value of the vehicle. Time for it to go me thinks.



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If you're ready for another car, sure. But if the only reason is the cost of the repair, then $1,414 is a drop in the bucket compared to depreciation on a new model.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post

This is exactly what my information source suggested I do. Said that he expected this to happen only in countries where dealerships are only just as crooked as politicians... was surprised to see this happen here.
Really?

You're just not paying attention....

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OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

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Old 12-28-2016, 12:58 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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If you're ready for another car, sure. But if the only reason is the cost of the repair, then $1,414 is a drop in the bucket compared to depreciation on a new model.


Oh, yeah, I get it. It's just that this one in particular did not come out to be a good choice for me...

I love the car, think the performance, luxury and aesthetics are all there and make the car a great all around Mid-Size SUV. It just happens that my wife who drives it regularly doesn't like the heavy steering, the tough suspension (run flats don't help) and overall look of the car.

I have wanted a Mercedes G class for some time and this is probably the right time to get one. I'm told they are very reliable from 09 onwards and I know they hold their value well. Will likely look for one in the 80K mile range once I line up all of my finances for '17.


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Old 12-28-2016, 03:58 PM
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dealer did mine under warty. are u talknig like gl550? I also have a 10 s550 has been a very solid car in the 2 years i have owned it. was cpo and i extended the wart thru benz on it.rear airshocks went at about 40k milea also ccovered under my warty. I believe the Gl shares a similiar shock.
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Old 12-28-2016, 05:04 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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dealer did mine under warty. are u talknig like gl550? I also have a 10 s550 has been a very solid car in the 2 years i have owned it. was cpo and i extended the wart thru benz on it.rear airshocks went at about 40k milea also ccovered under my warty. I believe the Gl shares a similiar shock.


No, I did not mean the GL, but the G wagon. It is a much more simpler vehicle and it holds it's value better than anything else (except maybe a Land Cruiser)


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Old 12-29-2016, 04:43 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is online now
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Mein Auto: 05 M3, '13 TLC, '11X5 35i
Before I went to talk to the service manager today, I first called around to see what other dealerships would charge for the same job.

All three that I talked to where in the $900 range plus tax. All stated that the amount of hours needed for the work was 3.2, and that the cost of parts including the thermostat was around $500.

I said down with my service manager and explained to him how I wanted to give them my business, but I also did not want to feel ripped off.

I asked if we could talk to BMW North America and ask for goodwill on the part, which he encouraged me to do on my own and provided the number.

He also stated that he would lower his labor rate per hour and make the adjustment to reflect three hours instead of the 4.6 that they had originally quoted. He said that these have been added on by the tech, but was unable to state clearly why that was the case.

Ended up with a dead net of $900, which they will proceed to fix tomorrow after I talk to BMW NA CS.

All things considered, I guess I did all right...

Thanks everyone for your help. I will let you know what I hear back from the headquarters after I talk to them about the Goodwill request.


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