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  #1  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:33 AM
kcheung kcheung is offline
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Lease end inspection question

Hi there,

My lease end is coming up in less than 60 days and I am ready to arrange for a pre-inspection appointment at my local dealership while working with them on getting my next car lease. Overall, the car is in great condition. However, it has a 1" chip on the front windshield which was fixed but still quite visible, and it also has two 1" scratches in the rear bumper. (one very light and the other one a tad deep - both caused by touching the car behind while parallel parking).

So I have a few questions:

1. Will the rear bumper scratches survive the inspection based on the ding-o-meter guideline (< 2") and be considered as normal wear and tear? Does the depth of the scratch matter based on the guideline?

2. I wonder if it is worthwhile to get a touch up service before hand. I understand that touch ups are generally not perfect and are noticeable if you know where to look. I assume that during inspection they will be examining the car quite closely and may spot them anyway. So I am not sure if it is worthwhile to spend $100-200 to touch up or not, especially if BMW ended up charging me a penalty anyway.

3. For the windshield chip, will the penalty be a flat charge or will it be the actual cost of replacing the entire windshield? I believe my insurance company may cover the OEM replacement but need to double check.

4. While my tire threads are still more than 1/8" deep, they are getting pretty close though (~6/32"). I am hoping that it will last for two to three more weeks of normal driving, especially since I will be able to return the car early when the new lease deal is made. Is tire replacement penalty still a flat fee of $300/tire or the actual replacement cost?

I am trying to get a good sense of what the penalty will roughly be. Also, since I am getting a new lease, if the dealership has already decided to keep my car instead of returning to BMWFS, I want to see if there is any room for negotiation.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:30 AM
ard ard is offline
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On the windshield... I like the argument that they are insuring you for your loss..if they fail to replace it with OE glass (not 'OEM'!) and BMWFS dings you, isn't the insurer also liable to that component of loss?

On glass, if you demand OEM, you will get OEM: a private label glass made by PPG or pilkington (or whomever) who is the OEM for the OE BMW glass

GL!
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:24 AM
kcheung kcheung is offline
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Thanks for the clarification ard. I do mean the original (OE) windshield not OEM.

Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2019, 05:40 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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I think before I put any $ into fixing the items you've noted, I'd go ahead with the inspection and see what they find, or don't find.

If they say you need a new windshield, then you deal with that. Same for the bumper and anything else.

A lot can depend on what's happening next. I've been in situations where the focus was on the next car and the lease return was as simple as park it at the dealer and drive off in the new car.

I had another one where the dealer suggested I go across the street and buy new tires -- and they told me which tires would be the least expensive to be sufficient to meet the turn in requirement. They wouldn't eat the tire replacement because the next car they were delivering to me was so far back of invoice that there was less than no money to cover the tire replacement.

So, as with most things in life, it depends. Wheels within wheels, pun intended!
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:42 AM
ksuderman ksuderman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
I think before I put any $ into fixing the items you've noted, I'd go ahead with the inspection and see what they find, or don't find.
This.

I am in almost exactly the same situation; although I think the chip my windshield may be smaller.

Don't bother spending any money on "touch ups" before the inspection. If the dealer is doing the inspection they may be more forgiving than Autovin, but my experience with Autovin has been fine so far. If you haven't negotiated your new lease you can always try to make returning your current car with no excess charges part of the deal.

If they want you to get new tires look around for similar used tires (speed rating, size, RFT or Go Flats) with just enough tread to pass the inspection.

I also spoke with BMWFS, and while I was nicked for $400 for a nice crease I put in the rear bumper (about 5 inches) they said they would waive that once I had returned the car. I am supposed to call again once I get the final turn-in bill.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:40 AM
kcheung kcheung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
I think before I put any $ into fixing the items you've noted, I'd go ahead with the inspection and see what they find, or don't find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksuderman View Post
Don't bother spending any money on "touch ups" before the inspection. If the dealer is doing the inspection they may be more forgiving than Autovin, but my experience with Autovin has been fine so far. If you haven't negotiated your new lease you can always try to make returning your current car with no excess charges part of the deal.
Yes I have already scheduled my pre-inspection and will see what they say and then go from there with my new lease negotiation. Was just trying to get a sense of expectation before going in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksuderman View Post
I also spoke with BMWFS, and while I was nicked for $400 for a nice crease I put in the rear bumper (about 5 inches) they said they would waive that once I had returned the car. I am supposed to call again once I get the final turn-in bill.
In your case since you have returned the car with the known penalty amount, wouldn't it be a challenge to ask for waiver since by turning in the car as is it implies that you have agreed to accept the penalty? Did you negotiate the waiver in writing during/after inspection? Trying to understand how this process works especially when you are dealing directly with BMWFS and not with the dealership.

Thanks.
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  #7  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:54 AM
ksuderman ksuderman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung View Post
Yes I have already scheduled my pre-inspection and will see what they say and then go from there with my new lease negotiation. Was just trying to get a sense of expectation before going in.
BMWFS is very vague on specific details, and seems even more so this time around. I couldn't get a firm number from anyone for anything until Autovin submitted the inspection report to BMWFS and then BMWFS sent me the report with the costs. Even the Autovin inspector said BMW is much more vague now and with other companies he is able to provide the cost break down on the spot at then end of the inspection. BMW is the only company (that he know of) that did not allow this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung View Post
In your case since you have returned the car with the known penalty amount, wouldn't it be a challenge to ask for waiver since by turning in the car as is it implies that you have agreed to accept the penalty? Did you negotiate the waiver in writing during/after inspection? Trying to understand how this process works especially when you are dealing directly with BMWFS and not with the dealership.
It never hurts to ask.

I don't actually turn in my car until next week so I won't see the final bill until a few weeks after that. As long as I don't ding the car up any further the pre-inspection will stand, but until I return the car and get a bill from BMWFS there is nothing to negotiate. At least nothing that BMWFS will commit to. The lease return specialist I spoke with said once I have the final bill I should call back and there should be no problem getting the $400 charge waived since I am a "loyal customer" and already have my next lease arranged. Interestingly, while BMWFS seems to be willing to forgive the $400 dent/crease there was absolutely NO forgiveness or negotiating for excess miles.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:14 AM
Surdy Surdy is offline
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I had the issue with the windshield with one of my lease returns.

The dealer wanted $2100 to replace the windshield which was covered under my $0 deductible glass policy. I was not to happy with the quote so I got another quote from a third party and had it replaced for $600.

No problems with the dealer or BMWFS.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:32 PM
kcheung kcheung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksuderman View Post
The lease return specialist I spoke with said once I have the final bill I should call back and there should be no problem getting the $400 charge waived since I am a "loyal customer" and already have my next lease arranged. Interestingly, while BMWFS seems to be willing to forgive the $400 dent/crease there was absolutely NO forgiveness or negotiating for excess miles.
Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Good luck with the return!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Surdy View Post
The dealer wanted $2100 to replace the windshield which was covered under my $0 deductible glass policy.
That was ridiculous. In my case I will also just go through insurance to take care of the replacement.

Kenny
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Old 05-22-2019, 03:05 PM
ksuderman ksuderman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surdy View Post
I had the issue with the windshield with one of my lease returns.

The dealer wanted $2100 to replace the windshield which was covered under my $0 deductible glass policy. I was not to happy with the quote so I got another quote from a third party and had it replaced for $600.

No problems with the dealer or BMWFS.
Interesting. Did you have a HUD? There is at least one person that got dinged the full retail replacement cost at lease turn in when they used a third-party windshield.

Autovin ended up giving me a pass on my small chip, but given a windshield with HUD now retails for $1600-$2500 I would have gone with the dealer installed option just to be on the safe side.

Last edited by ksuderman; 05-22-2019 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Fixed link to include full thread
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Old 05-22-2019, 04:58 PM
Surdy Surdy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksuderman View Post
Interesting. Did you have a HUD? There is at least one person that got dinged the full retail replacement cost at lease turn in when they used a third-party windshield.

Autovin ended up giving me a pass on my small chip, but given a windshield with HUD now retails for $1600-$2500 I would have gone with the dealer installed option just to be on the safe side.
No. No HUD on that. It was for my son's 328i. That is why I thought it was a crazy price. The windshield had already been replaced a couple of times for under $600- chalk it up to the cost of living in the desert.

Full disclosure: The sales manager actually called up the third party mobile windshield replacement guy once I told him I was not going to look at leasing a new BMW.
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:13 PM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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This thread teases out several aspects of the negotiation process -- especially when a lease return is involved.

All of us have read the many "advice" web sites that stress the importance of separating the various aspects of a car acquisition negotiation. My experience suggests that this is generally bad advice.

Of the many, many car deals I've done, the one thing that seems to stand out is that telling the dealer exactly what I want to see happen saves time, focuses the process, reduces the stress and uncertainty, and, usually fairly quickly, reveals what can or can't be done.

I ALWAYS turn in a car knowing what I want to do next -- or what I plan to do next unless a better offer is presented to me, which has happened.

The opportunity is in the flexibility of what a dealer can do with a lease return. Several CAs have made this point before.

If you're turning in a BMW at lease end and have no plans to get into another BMW, then you get the inspection and pay the damages or, if you're lucky, negotiate some of them away.

If you know the next BMW you want, and you know the terms to which you will say yes, then I suggest you clearly tell your salesperson exactly what you want, as in, "Here's my lease turn in. That's my next Bimmer over there, and here are the numbers that will work for me." Then you let the dealer figure out how to get you where you want. They do this every day and are very good at it. Let them do their jobs, if they can. They want to get you into a new one of their cars more than you do. We enjoy the rides. They feed their families by getting us to "yes." If they can't get us there, then we pay what we have to to ground the turn in and move on to another brand. As we are often told, it always comes down to numbers.
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:58 PM
kcheung kcheung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
This thread teases out several aspects of the negotiation process -- especially when a lease return is involved.

All of us have read the many "advice" web sites that stress the importance of separating the various aspects of a car acquisition negotiation. My experience suggests that this is generally bad advice.

Of the many, many car deals I've done, the one thing that seems to stand out is that telling the dealer exactly what I want to see happen saves time, focuses the process, reduces the stress and uncertainty, and, usually fairly quickly, reveals what can or can't be done.

I ALWAYS turn in a car knowing what I want to do next -- or what I plan to do next unless a better offer is presented to me, which has happened.

The opportunity is in the flexibility of what a dealer can do with a lease return. Several CAs have made this point before.

If you're turning in a BMW at lease end and have no plans to get into another BMW, then you get the inspection and pay the damages or, if you're lucky, negotiate some of them away.

If you know the next BMW you want, and you know the terms to which you will say yes, then I suggest you clearly tell your salesperson exactly what you want, as in, "Here's my lease turn in. That's my next Bimmer over there, and here are the numbers that will work for me." Then you let the dealer figure out how to get you where you want. They do this every day and are very good at it. Let them do their jobs, if they can. They want to get you into a new one of their cars more than you do. We enjoy the rides. They feed their families by getting us to "yes." If they can't get us there, then we pay what we have to to ground the turn in and move on to another brand. As we are often told, it always comes down to numbers.
Well said 1968BMW2800! Completely agree with you.
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:52 AM
deenx deenx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968BMW2800 View Post
This thread teases out several aspects of the negotiation process -- especially when a lease return is involved.

All of us have read the many "advice" web sites that stress the importance of separating the various aspects of a car acquisition negotiation. My experience suggests that this is generally bad advice.

Of the many, many car deals I've done, the one thing that seems to stand out is that telling the dealer exactly what I want to see happen saves time, focuses the process, reduces the stress and uncertainty, and, usually fairly quickly, reveals what can or can't be done.

I ALWAYS turn in a car knowing what I want to do next -- or what I plan to do next unless a better offer is presented to me, which has happened.

The opportunity is in the flexibility of what a dealer can do with a lease return. Several CAs have made this point before.

If you're turning in a BMW at lease end and have no plans to get into another BMW, then you get the inspection and pay the damages or, if you're lucky, negotiate some of them away.

If you know the next BMW you want, and you know the terms to which you will say yes, then I suggest you clearly tell your salesperson exactly what you want, as in, "Here's my lease turn in. That's my next Bimmer over there, and here are the numbers that will work for me." Then you let the dealer figure out how to get you where you want. They do this every day and are very good at it. Let them do their jobs, if they can. They want to get you into a new one of their cars more than you do. We enjoy the rides. They feed their families by getting us to "yes." If they can't get us there, then we pay what we have to to ground the turn in and move on to another brand. As we are often told, it always comes down to numbers.

I think the problem some of us (maybe it's just me) have had over the past 6 months is that BMW has clearly changed how they are treating current customers by removing pull-aheads and giving dealerships the prerogative in dealing with retention. For years, I was a two BMW (a few times three) household and was treated in a manner where it was clear BMW wanted to retain me as a customer. Recently though, I was not able to construct a deal on an X5 that satisfied all the suggestions you mention (which are very good btw). Essentially, they let me walk and I saved thousands of dollars over the life of the lease going with a Volvo XC90Inscription. Now.. I find myself at the next juncture with an X3 lease that terminates in August. Seems to me my dealership is carrying far fewer cars on the lot, pricing has increased dramatically, and the only incentive I qualify for is loyalty.

One other thought. While I totally understand the deal I get is directly related to my geographic location, my local dealerships seem in denial that the customer has far more options on where a purchase can be made.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:31 AM
luigi524td luigi524td is offline
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I haven't leased a car (my BMW Z3) since 1998 - but I flipped that one and bought it myself since on the front I negotiated a buy out that was "projected" to be lower than the expected market price. But I've read hundreds of posts on this and other forums and candidly (I'm not implying the OP is such a person) I'm SHOCKED at the number of people entering into contracts involving THOUSANDS OF $$$$$'s to RENT an expensive car who seem to be oblivious to the many details entering into and then exiting the transaction.

I can only surmise those consumers are in "heat" and overcome by the lust of getting into a (new) BMW ...

Now that the hormones have settled down, when it's time to return that BMW -- reality sets in :-( And the "blame" the dealer ... blame BMW ... blame someone else starts cuz it's NOT MY FAULT!

R I G H T :-(

On the other hand, it's been my experience that the seller-buyer relationship (and the quality of that relationship) can go a long long was to satisfactorily moving through all phases of the transaction from beginning to the (bitter) end!
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Last edited by luigi524td; 05-23-2019 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:52 AM
deenx deenx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luigi524td View Post
I haven't leased a car (my BMW Z3) since 1998 - but I flipped that one and bought it myself since on the front I negotiated a buy out that was "projected" to be lower than the expected market price. But I've read hundreds of posts on this and other forums and candidly (I'm not implying the OP is such a person) I'm SHOCKED at the number of people entering into contracts involving THOUSANDS OF $$$$$'s to RENT an expensive car who seem to be oblivious to the many details entering into and then exiting the transaction.

I can only surmise those consumers are in "heat" and overcome by the lust of getting into a (new) BMW ...

Now that the hormones have settled down, when it's time to return that BMW -- reality sets in :-( And the "blame" the dealer ... blame BMW ... blame someone else starts cuz it's NOT MY FAULT!

R I G H T :-(

On the other hand, it's been my experience that the seller-buyer relationship (and the quality of that relationship) can go a long long was to satisfactorily moving through all phases of the transaction from beginning to the (bitter) end!

There's no lust or blame involved here. I lease for specific reasons... the first of which is liability. Cars are liabilities and to manage the risk, I lease and never drive a car outside of warranty. Does it cost more? It depends. Ultimately, the only way to compare the lease cost to the purchase cost of the same vehicle is in total cost/miles driven. If you drive a late model BMW out of warranty and have something major go wrong not only does it add expensive repair costs, it also makes it hard to trade-in or sell. A lease is a deal where I have prearranged the sale of the car back to BMW. BMW HAS to take it back... no matter what. If you buy a car, there's no way you can guarantee the disposition when you are ready to move on. If you then consider the time value of money and some tax advantages, leasing is not such a bad idea.

It's quite obvious that the car business is again in transition. The pull ahead of demand in the last decade through various subsidies like cash for clunkers and zirp, is coming home to roost. Neither can we expect the same deals we once received, and neither can BMW expect to sell cars at the same rate they once did. Economic cycles kind of work that way I guess.
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:23 AM
1968BMW2800 1968BMW2800 is offline
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Originally Posted by deenx View Post
I think the problem some of us (maybe it's just me) have had over the past 6 months is that BMW has clearly changed how they are treating current customers by removing pull-aheads and giving dealerships the prerogative in dealing with retention.

... my local dealerships seem in denial that the customer has far more options on where a purchase can be made.
It does appear that, probably in response to dealer input, BMWNA is putting more of the financial support behind curtains not easily seen by customers, and, in so doing, giving more discretion to individual dealers.

While I have no special inside knowledge about what is happening in this regard, I still believe that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

A year ago the sky was falling and lease rates were trending higher. Now, while not at the rock bottom levels that spoiled many of us, they have trended slightly downward. And, we do get the occasional post from a customer who snagged a very aggressive deal.

We have read many, many posts over the years debating the pros and cons of leasing. Buying a low mileage, clean lease return and driving it until the wheels fall off usually saves money. Leasing a new car, built to the individual's exact desires and specifications, may cost a bit more, but has advantages for some regarding risk management and taxes.

Like all things BMW, driving one, through lease or purchase, new off the lot or CPO, or used from Craig's list, is an indulgence. There are so many cars of truly excellent quality that, while not BMWs, are fun and safe and full of all sorts of bells and whistles. And they are less expensive from acquisition to disposition.

If we want a BMW, we can pay the premium BMW is asking for, we can grind hard and maybe shave some of that premium off, and, if we lease, we need to do so with our eyes wide open regarding the potential lease-end liabilities for the rims we gouge or the windshields that get chipped during our stewardship of the car, or the parking lot dings and scrapes, and the extra miles we pile on after we knowingly signed a contract that clearly states allowed mileage and the costs for going over the allowance.

But we can't grouse because the BMW we want is too expensive. We give the dealer the opportunity to meet our desired terms, and, using whatever hidden tools the dealer might have, they either do what we ask or they don't. If the don't or can't give us the sweet deals of yore, we pay the premium or try another brand.

I just saw a 2016 Jag XJ lease return, fully loaded, with an original MSRP close to $80K advertised as a CPO with coverage out to 7 years from original in-service date. Car has less than 30K miles and is pristine. Asking price is around $38K, and I'm sure there's room to negotiate down from there, with a below market interest loan rate available.

Thousands of deals like that are out there every day. BMW knows this, they know how to sell in this market, and they will find a way to move metal. And when we return our leased Bimmers, we may not be offered the sweet deal that we got three years ago, but, trust me, BMW dealers are there to move metal. They will do whatever deals they have to in order to make it happen. If we aren't getting the deals we're used to getting, it's because the greater fool is willing to pay more. If they're getting less flexible about ignoring lease turn-in damage, it's because BMW doesn't want to or need to pay for our mistakes anymore.
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