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  #26  
Old 03-28-2020, 07:57 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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Comparing the 330i to the 330e, it looks like the hybrid hardware weighs 450 pounds.

I had to make a provisioning run Thursday, with three stops: Sam's Club, gas station, grocery store. Traffic was really light (past rush hour and everybody else hiding from the virus). Here's the trip computer screen shots from our (Frau Putzer's) G01 X3 xDrive 30i: house to Sam's Club (40.2 MPG), total trip (31.1 MPG). I've had my MPG display adjusted and it now matches up with the "gas pump" mpg within 0.25%. So, call it 40.1 MPG and 30.0 MPG.

I ran the AC and EcoPro the whole way. But, my tank was empty on the first leg, the car was already warmed up when I started, and I run my tires six PSI (front) and four PSI (rear) over what the door jamb decal says. Those pressures achieve even tire wear, but that's another thread. The X3's OE non-run-flat tires probably also improve MPG by 1%.

With the current Saudi Arabia v. Russia oil war, the corona virus causing gas prices to go down, and a localized gas war in my immediate vicinity (three stations going after the fourth that just opened and each other), and my 5% credit card rebate for gas, that 31 mile trip cost me $2.15 in fuel... $0.07/mile. Depreciation, maintenance, and capital costs for the third year of ownership will be about $0.50/mile.
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2020, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
The X3's OE non-run-flat tires probably also improve MPG by 1%.
G20 330e offers OE non run-flat tires as a no cost option, but unlike G20 330i and G01 30i does not include space saver spare tire (330e has a portable inflator & tire repair kit instead).
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Last edited by gkr778; 03-28-2020 at 09:36 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-28-2020, 09:51 AM
Closem Joe Closem Joe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
Comparing the 330i to the 330e, it looks like the hybrid hardware weighs 450 pounds.

I had to make a provisioning run Thursday, with three stops: Sam's Club, gas station, grocery store. Traffic was really light (past rush hour and everybody else hiding from the virus). Here's the trip computer screen shots from our (Frau Putzer's) G01 X3 xDrive 30i: house to Sam's Club (40.2 MPG), total trip (31.1 MPG). I've had my MPG display adjusted and it now matches up with the "gas pump" mpg within 0.25%. So, call it 40.1 MPG and 30.0 MPG.

I ran the AC and EcoPro the whole way. But, my tank was empty on the first leg, the car was already warmed up when I started, and I run my tires six PSI (front) and four PSI (rear) over what the door jamb decal says. Those pressures achieve even tire wear, but that's another thread. The X3's OE non-run-flat tires probably also improve MPG by 1%.

With the current Saudi Arabia v. Russia oil war, the corona virus causing gas prices to go down, and a localized gas war in my immediate vicinity (three stations going after the fourth that just opened and each other), and my 5% credit card rebate for gas, that 31 mile trip cost me $2.15 in fuel... $0.07/mile. Depreciation, maintenance, and capital costs for the third year of ownership will be about $0.50/mile.
OMG Putz, you have it down pretty good! What were you an engineer in your past life? You can't take the engineer out of the boy, can you! Nice job brother.
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  #29  
Old 03-28-2020, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
G20 330e offers OE non run-flat tires as a no cost option, but unlike G20 330i and G01 30i does not include space saver spare tire (330e has a portable inflator & tire repair kit instead).
Because there would be no trunk.
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  #30  
Old 03-28-2020, 10:32 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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OMG Putz, you have it down pretty good! What were you an engineer in your past life? You can't take the engineer out of the boy, can you! Nice job brother.
Guilty.

Frau Putzer says I drive like an old man when I'm hyper-mile-ing. But, she STFU's after I threaten to buy another M3. I got really good at making U turns with mostly the gas pedal instead of the steering wheel. Our Saturday night routine included a U turn on a deserted street (that contained only a church and a high school). I'd turn off the DTC, and in my best British accent say "Let me see what I can do, sir."




"*********! You better not, *******. I hope a ******* cop see you doing this ****. If you get stopped, I'm going to tell him you do this **** every Saturday night. .. and I won't bail your *** out of jail, either."

My 535i has three or four more good years in it. But, then it will be replaced by either a 330i or a 911. I lead a conflicted life.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 03-28-2020 at 10:54 AM.
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  #31  
Old 03-28-2020, 10:54 AM
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Because there would be no trunk.
I bought a full-size spare for my E46 M3. That turned the trunk into the "spare tire compartment" and the back seat into the "duffle bag storage area" on road trips.

My potential (992) 911 might get the kabash due to the lack of a spare tire. The 991 had a gray market, collapsible spare that rode in its own "baby seat" in the back. The spare only fit on the front. If you have flat on the back, you changed two tires: spare onto the front, front onto the back. But, the 992's back tires have a 1" larger rolling diameter.
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  #32  
Old 03-28-2020, 11:08 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
G20 330e offers OE non run-flat tires as a no cost option, but unlike G20 330i and G01 30i does not include space saver spare tire (330e has a portable inflator & tire repair kit instead).
The BMW Mobility System, a.k.a. the "BMW Immobility System."
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2020, 11:09 AM
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Is it just me, or is the electric range of the G20 330e not as great as I was hoping? I'm hearing 20mi for the xDrive and 22 for RWD. Nice that the new gen is offering xDrive, but I'm admittedly underwhelmed.

My current F30 was rated at 14 miles of electric range- but in most conditions I'd say I'm lucky to get 10, especially in winter and summer. I'd assume the same with the G20- 20 miles is more like 15 or 16.
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2020, 12:42 PM
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Looks like the 330e became available on bmwusa.com overnight.

I think it's a good looking sedan. I wish they would facelift the 5 to adopt the same stying.
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  #35  
Old 03-29-2020, 12:57 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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Originally Posted by ams3141 View Post
Is it just me, or is the electric range of the G20 330e not as great as I was hoping? I'm hearing 20mi for the xDrive and 22 for RWD. Nice that the new gen is offering xDrive, but I'm admittedly underwhelmed.

My current F30 was rated at 14 miles of electric range- but in most conditions I'd say I'm lucky to get 10, especially in winter and summer. I'd assume the same with the G20- 20 miles is more like 15 or 16.
I live on the coast in Floriduh. The developed area is mostly a one-mile strip along the beach that's maybe 20 miles long. Many of our outings end up being a 20 mile drive. If I'm firing up a combustion engine, I want it to run long enough to warm up and boil the water and gasoline out of the oil. 20 mile electric range wouldn't work for me.

Bubbaville Beach is a ghost town now with the lockdown. I took a "cabin fever" run to the drive thru mailbox at the post office, 13 miles round trip. Taking Frau Putzer's X3 xDrive 30i, I got a real 35.5 MPG. That worked out to $0.79 in gas. With a 330i, I would have been over 40 MPG.
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  #36  
Old 03-29-2020, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ams3141 View Post
Is it just me, or is the electric range of the G20 330e not as great as I was hoping? I'm hearing 20mi for the xDrive and 22 for RWD. Nice that the new gen is offering xDrive, but I'm admittedly underwhelmed.
If you've seen WLTP equivalent numbers for G20 330e in the European market that BMW AG originally released in November 2018 (37 mi. AER; 138 mpg), the EPA ratings may seem somewhat disappointing. But WLTP fuel economy and electric only range metrics are infamous for being unrealistic.
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  #37  
Old 04-03-2020, 07:33 AM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
I live on the coast in Floriduh. The developed area is mostly a one-mile strip along the beach that's maybe 20 miles long. Many of our outings end up being a 20 mile drive. If I'm firing up a combustion engine, I want it to run long enough to warm up and boil the water and gasoline out of the oil. 20 mile electric range wouldn't work for me.

Bubbaville Beach is a ghost town now with the lockdown. I took a "cabin fever" run to the drive thru mailbox at the post office, 13 miles round trip. Taking Frau Putzer's X3 xDrive 30i, I got a real 35.5 MPG. That worked out to $0.79 in gas. With a 330i, I would have been over 40 MPG.
Therein lies some of my challenge with my current F30, and potentially the G20 330e- the electric range isn't quite enough for what I really need, but I don't drive far enough to really get the combustion engine up to its optimal temp. I don't charge all the time, and occasionally with my short trips in mostly gasoline mode with my F30 I see around 30-ish MPG, but occasionally less than that, which isn't great. Of course, I used to regularly average 19mpg in city driving in a Ford Focus, so that was pretty dismal.
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  #38  
Old 04-03-2020, 07:40 AM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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Originally Posted by gkr778 View Post
If you've seen WLTP equivalent numbers for G20 330e in the European market that BMW AG originally released in November 2018 (37 mi. AER; 138 mpg), the EPA ratings may seem somewhat disappointing. But WLTP fuel economy and electric only range metrics are infamous for being unrealistic.
Yes- I recall seeing European estimates of around 40 miles of all electric, and assumed that the US figures would be around 25-30. So that may be the source of my disappointment- that it was even less than my assumption, which I tried to take into account the optimism of those Euro numbers.

The other challenge is, the real world numbers are usually less than the published ratings too- so 20-22 mi is probably more like 15 or 16, especially in cold weather.
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  #39  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:33 AM
Closem Joe Closem Joe is offline
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Originally Posted by ams3141 View Post
Therein lies some of my challenge with my current F30, and potentially the G20 330e- the electric range isn't quite enough for what I really need, but I don't drive far enough to really get the combustion engine up to its optimal temp. I don't charge all the time, and occasionally with my short trips in mostly gasoline mode with my F30 I see around 30-ish MPG, but occasionally less than that, which isn't great. Of course, I used to regularly average 19mpg in city driving in a Ford Focus, so that was pretty dismal.
Gentlemen, how come the Bimmer electric vehicle doesn't get anywhere near the mileage of say, the Tesla? Why would they even come out with such a vehicle that doesn't even come close to the competition. Why waste our time and theirs! I don't get it!
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  #40  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:40 AM
Cfbackrow Cfbackrow is offline
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I'm very interested in the 330e as my first BMW but am worried about the real world electric miles...my commute is 20 miles round trip and in the winter here in Boston I know it will drain the battery pretty fast...wish they beefed the battery up to real world 30-35 range
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  #41  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:40 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
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It's not an electric vehicle, it's a plug in hybrid. Vast difference. But you bring up a great point. Those that are bemoaning the all-electric range is only 15-20-25 whatever really sound like candidates for a Model 3.
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  #42  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:49 AM
Closem Joe Closem Joe is offline
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It's not an electric vehicle, it's a plug in hybrid. Vast difference. But you bring up a great point. Those that are bemoaning the all-electric range is only 15-20-25 whatever really sound like candidates for a Model 3.
I hardily agree Todd! Folks should buy a Tesla and maybe BMW will get the message. What good is a 20 mile range unless you don't go anywhere!
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  #43  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:53 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
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The range isn't 20 miles. The range is far more than a Tesla and if you take a road trip, there is no need to hunt for Superchargers and waste time when you can fill the gas tank in 5 minutes. Again, hybrids and EV's are very different and have different audiences. A plug in hybrid is FAR more versatile than an EV.
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  #44  
Old 04-03-2020, 09:43 AM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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The range isn't 20 miles. The range is far more than a Tesla and if you take a road trip, there is no need to hunt for Superchargers and waste time when you can fill the gas tank in 5 minutes. Again, hybrids and EV's are very different and have different audiences. A plug in hybrid is FAR more versatile than an EV.
Agreed- which is why I drive a PHEV and not a fully-electric. But- I think the gripe I have with only ~20mi of electric only range, is that you have a car like the Chevy Volt (no Bimmer in terms of performance obviously) that supposedly did over 50 miles on electric, and then had the usual range in terms of gas driving after that. If Chevy can do it, why can't BMW which cost a good 10k more or so.

I'll definitely cross-shop the Model 3, but I don't really care for the exterior styling, strongly dislike the interior iPad console, and don't have a charger at home so that doesn't bode too well for it.
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  #45  
Old 04-03-2020, 09:56 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Agreed- which is why I drive a PHEV and not a fully-electric. But- I think the gripe I have with only ~20mi of electric only range, is that you have a car like the Chevy Volt (no Bimmer in terms of performance obviously) that supposedly did over 50 miles on electric, and then had the usual range in terms of gas driving after that. If Chevy can do it, why can't BMW which cost a good 10k more or so.

I'll definitely cross-shop the Model 3, but I don't really care for the exterior styling, strongly dislike the interior iPad console, and don't have a charger at home so that doesn't bode too well for it.
The VOLT is a serial hybrid and once the electric miles were exhausted, the tiny ICE had to drive the car to recharge the battery. The ICE never drove the wheels and the power was puny once the batteries were exhausted.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Range is a function, in part, of power. The underpowered VOLT can have a bigger range than a car with a more powerful electric motor because it is using less electricity to drive the wheels.

There are those of us who want more range; there are others (put me in this camp) that want more power and will live with the lesser range.

You can't get a VOLT anymore but there are hybrids out there that will meet your desires. But the BMW 330e and530e will not. The only BMW that will is the I3 with Range Extender. That car, like the VOLT, is a serial hybrid. There are lots of hybrids out there that will provide more range.
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  #46  
Old 04-03-2020, 11:47 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is online now
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I went to the credit union to get cash today. The one close is closed, so I had to go to one eleven miles from home. With Frau Putzer's G01 X3 xDrive 30i, in light traffic and using EcoPro, I got a rea 35.3 MPG, using $1.34 in gasoline.

Incremental improvements in gasoline powered vehicles keep making hybrids and electrics less and less cost effective. It's an application of The Law of Diminishing Returns. Years ago, VW build a diesel hybrid that achieved 240 MPG highway. It accomplished nothing... because of The Law of Diminishing Returns.
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  #47  
Old 04-03-2020, 06:50 PM
ams3141 ams3141 is offline
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The VOLT is a serial hybrid and once the electric miles were exhausted, the tiny ICE had to drive the car to recharge the battery. The ICE never drove the wheels and the power was puny once the batteries were exhausted.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Range is a function, in part, of power. The underpowered VOLT can have a bigger range than a car with a more powerful electric motor because it is using less electricity to drive the wheels.

There are those of us who want more range; there are others (put me in this camp) that want more power and will live with the lesser range.

You can't get a VOLT anymore but there are hybrids out there that will meet your desires. But the BMW 330e and530e will not. The only BMW that will is the I3 with Range Extender. That car, like the VOLT, is a serial hybrid. There are lots of hybrids out there that will provide more range.
Thanks for the reply- quite aware that I am comparing apples to oranges, as it is really problematic to compare the 330e to anything else. I'd wager comparing it to the Tesla is just as difficult as comparing to a Volt, as the Model 3 of course has no ICE at all.

You mention the i3- which in any of its forms is not as good as its competition, at least in terms of range. The i3 (without the range extender) has always lagged behind cheaper vehicles like the Bolt, Leaf, etc. It also looks a bit spaceship like IMO, which isn't quite what I am looking for.

Oddly enough, I'm not sure how you can assert that the 330e does not meet my desires- the one I drive currently would suggest otherwise. I don't think its unreasonable to wish it had more range though.
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  #48  
Old 04-04-2020, 06:15 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Thanks for the reply- quite aware that I am comparing apples to oranges, as it is really problematic to compare the 330e to anything else. I'd wager comparing it to the Tesla is just as difficult as comparing to a Volt, as the Model 3 of course has no ICE at all.

You mention the i3- which in any of its forms is not as good as its competition, at least in terms of range. The i3 (without the range extender) has always lagged behind cheaper vehicles like the Bolt, Leaf, etc. It also looks a bit spaceship like IMO, which isn't quite what I am looking for.

Oddly enough, I'm not sure how you can assert that the 330e does not meet my desires- the one I drive currently would suggest otherwise. I don't think its unreasonable to wish it had more range though.
I was referring to your desire for more range. And I wasn't suggesting the I3, I was using it as a serial hybrid example.

I love my BMW PHEV so I am not suggesting that you leave the company, only that there are hybrids out there with more range if that is important to you.
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  #49  
Old 05-03-2020, 07:54 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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After weighing electrified options, I went with the Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor. While it is not a BMW, it is a great value.
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  #50  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:42 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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After weighing electrified options, I went with the Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor. While it is not a BMW, it is a great value.
Phardin, I'll be going that route when my 530e lease maturates in March. Just saw that the 2021 330e will get 21 electric miles...geez, that's sorry!
Really looking forward to driving 100% EV car all the time. BTW - I saw some of your post on the Tesla board. I'm brand new over there. As usual enjoy seeing your posts.
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