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G30 (2017 - Current)
The next generation 5 Series, chassis code G30, arrives at dealers in February 2017. Looking like a scaled down 7 Series and riding on the CLAR platform, the new 5 Series will have a focus on lightweight and sporty performance. Engines options will come from BMW's new B family for the 530 and 540 and a turbocharged V8 for the M550i. Read more about the 2017 5 Series

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  #126  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:25 AM
Andyz4 Andyz4 is offline
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Why we, Saudi Arabia of CNG, didn't decide to pay 1/2 or even 1/3 of dollars per mile traveled when compared with cost of gasoline will remain one of the big mysteries of modern U.S. history.
Amen brother
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  #127  
Old 03-02-2020, 08:27 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Maybe this?

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  #128  
Old 03-02-2020, 10:57 AM
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Here's why people are reluctant to keep a CNG car in their garage. This was caused by the 1/2 PSI household supply of NG.

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  #129  
Old 03-10-2020, 11:36 AM
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  #130  
Old 03-10-2020, 06:21 PM
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I ordered the Tesla Model 3 after driving BMW 5ers for 19 years. If the i4 was available, I probably would have gone with that if the pricing was close. BMW makes awesome cars, but they really dropped the ball on the electrification of cars. Great start then they just gave up.
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  #131  
Old 03-10-2020, 07:05 PM
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I ordered the Tesla Model 3 after driving BMW 5ers for 19 years. If the i4 was available, I probably would have gone with that if the pricing was close. BMW makes awesome cars, but they really dropped the ball on the electrification of cars. Great start then they just gave up.
I have friends who own Tesla cars--but for me their cars are not at all 'involving.' I love driving but a car with no manual transmission, and a huge screen in the car is not at all about driving: it's about riding in a car, not driving a car for the fun of it. It's too much about riding and not about actually driving--which for me is a lifetime skill and great pleasure!
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  #132  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:41 AM
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The market for EV's is mixed and full of abnormalities, including excessive government subsidy making a value judgement difficult. BMW has a proven track record and will continue to innovate as usual.
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  #133  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:27 PM
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I have friends who own Tesla cars--but for me their cars are not at all 'involving.' I love driving but a car with no manual transmission, and a huge screen in the car is not at all about driving: it's about riding in a car, not driving a car for the fun of it. It's too much about riding and not about actually driving--which for me is a lifetime skill and great pleasure!
Nordique, EVs can be a lot more fun than ICE+MT. I am die-hard MT guy - both my grocery-getter (VW GTI) and my fun car (981 Cayman S) are strict MT, and I would not have them any other way if there is ICE powering them.

That said, transmission is totally inconsequential for EV. I drove more than once or twice my friend's Nissan Leaf on factory-supplied tires (low rolling resistance all seasons). If I were given the choice to go out for A to A drive (no destination, out for pure fun driving) with either my GTI or with Nissan Leaf, you better believe I would pick Nissan Leaf. The smoothness in transitions you get with no foot braking gets really addictive very fast - and that in a crappy car where you cannot set regen force on throttle lift. I can only imagine how awesome that would be in Model 3 where Tesla threatened to give driver the setting on how much braking force you get with regen.

All of that said, for a useless contraption existing only for A to A drives normally called "sports car" - I cannot care less about performance numbers, if it has no ICE (and, thus, MT), I am not buying. Grocery getter? I think I bought last ICE-powered grocery getter. Next one will be EV.
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  #134  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:54 AM
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As described in Mark K's post, it just a different driving from an ICE vehicle. The Tesla drives and handles well, short of my 54iX M-Sport, but it is fine none-the-less. There is a series of trade-offs with Tesla versus a BMW. BMW excels at many things and makes great cars. The Tesla Model 3 battery technology and electronics for driving assistance work unbelievably well. As a value proposition, the Tesla Model 3 is an amazing value compared to BMW BEVs and HPEVs.
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  #135  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:24 PM
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In my case, driving our 530e has made me a EV fan. The difference between this car using its electric engine and the gas engine are like night and day. We love the silence, smoothness and instantaneous torque. So much so that our next car will be an EV. Most of our driving is within city traffic and a I3 is actually ideal. I test drove it when it first came out and was ready to purchase one, but at the time they wanted MSRP. Perhaps this time they will be ready to deal. If not I will be looking at the Tesla3 and even at Kia or any other new model. I recently drove a new Series 3 and was impressed with the changes in size and the new luxury appointments. I see they are coming out with a new 330e. If that new car had an electric range of, say 28 miles I probably would really consider it. But at only 20 miles I find it disappointing. We'll see how things play a year from now when my lease maturates.
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  #136  
Old 03-30-2020, 12:49 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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In my case, driving our 530e has made me a EV fan. The difference between this car using its electric engine and the gas engine are like night and day. We love the silence, smoothness and instantaneous torque. So much so that our next car will be an EV. Most of our driving is within city traffic and a I3 is actually ideal. I test drove it when it first came out and was ready to purchase one, but at the time they wanted MSRP. Perhaps this time they will be ready to deal. If not I will be looking at the Tesla3 and even at Kia or any other new model. I recently drove a new Series 3 and was impressed with the changes in size and the new luxury appointments. I see they are coming out with a new 330e. If that new car had an electric range of, say 28 miles I probably would really consider it. But at only 20 miles I find it disappointing. We'll see how things play a year from now when my lease maturates.
Same here!

My wife actually complains every time the gas engine comes on and the ICE in the 530e isn't horrible by any stretch, but the difference between EV and ICE are dramatic. Even though they've done an amazing job of making it seamless and hard to notice (especially on the highway).

We went with a PHEV because an BEV just doesn't work for us yet, but hopefully in the next 5-10 years when we plan to transition away from the 530e either PHEV will have extreme range or a BEV will work for us. It truly is the future.

I still don't know exactly why anyone would get the 530i over the 530e
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  #137  
Old 03-30-2020, 01:05 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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I'm a bit tense about a BMW with a hybrid system, given BMW electronic reliability problems, and don't favor leasing/giving back a perfectly good car after 3 or so years (after I've paid off the depreciation). My one "drive" with a 530e as a loaner gave 32 mpg (without any charging) while my truly eco-equivalent 535d gets 38 mpg plus average.

With the 530e regenerative braking, it was definitely better, while acceleration felt similar. I would think hard about a 530e but likely prefer the 540i or some diesel light truck instead, though.

The details of how EV's save the planet elude me when thinking of how electricity is made from natural gas (methane pollution) and solar panel ROI/toxic chemicals on production and disposal. Gasoline as a waste product of diesel production makes burning it inconsequential for now.

Cheers.
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  #138  
Old 03-30-2020, 01:15 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Same here!

My wife actually complains every time the gas engine comes on and the ICE in the 530e isn't horrible by any stretch, but the difference between EV and ICE are dramatic. Even though they've done an amazing job of making it seamless and hard to notice (especially on the highway).

We went with a PHEV because an BEV just doesn't work for us yet, but hopefully in the next 5-10 years when we plan to transition away from the 530e either PHEV will have extreme range or a BEV will work for us. It truly is the future.

I still don't know exactly why anyone would get the 530i over the 530e
The 330e's MSRP is $3800 more than the 330i's. $3800 would buy a lot of gas. But, the MSRP's of the 530e and 530i are the same. So, it looks like there's enough profit in a 5 Series for BMW to be a little generous with the hybrid's pricing to improve their US CAFE and EU CO2 numbers.

There's the issue of a spare tire. Buying an OE spare tire wheel and jack for the hybrid's would be about $700, and then they'd be cluttering up the trunk. The conventional cars offer an optional spare for $150. The trunks are less deep with the spare, but the trunk floors are flat. The hybrids' trunks are less deep to accommodate the batteries.

The 530e doesn't offer a non-run-flat tire option. The 530i does. After the crap run-flats that came on my F10 535i, having non-run-flats is a big deal for me.

Li-ion batteries are getting better. BMW now warranties them for 8 years /80,000 miles. But, I keep my cars longer than that.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 03-30-2020 at 01:32 PM.
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  #139  
Old 03-30-2020, 02:26 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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I'm a bit tense about a BMW with a hybrid system, given BMW electronic reliability problems, and don't favor leasing/giving back a perfectly good car after 3 or so years (after I've paid off the depreciation). My one "drive" with a 530e as a loaner gave 32 mpg (without any charging) while my truly eco-equivalent 535d gets 38 mpg plus average.

With the 530e regenerative braking, it was definitely better, while acceleration felt similar. I would think hard about a 530e but likely prefer the 540i or some diesel light truck instead, though.

The details of how EV's save the planet elude me when thinking of how electricity is made from natural gas (methane pollution) and solar panel ROI/toxic chemicals on production and disposal. Gasoline as a waste product of diesel production makes burning it inconsequential for now.

Cheers.
I didn't lease either. I'd rather not be on a payment treadmill...

Where I am the battery is covered for 10y/150K miles since we adhere to CA emissions warranty requirements. That was well within my intended ownership period so I was happy with it. Although I do understand the concern on reliability I don't think BMW ICE engines are radically different in this area. BMW tends to waffle a bit in this department some engines are notoriously unreliable and some are very good. I'm not sure where the engine and powertrain in my 530e will fare, but I'll be here complaining if it slides out of bounds. We should start to get some really good data from CR soon too as the earliest BMW 530e PHEVs will start to leave warranty coverage soon.

I've never driven a diesel, but they were top of my list after getting my previous car ('14 C300 MB) as the fuel economy is great on them. But the emissions scandal has pretty much killed diesel in the US so there were no diesel options available. But since I am able to charge my car regularly the fuel economy on my 530e dwarfs anything I would have been able to do on diesel.

The 530e really shines if you can plug it in one at least one end of the journey.

I agree on the need to question environmental footprint. The grid will continuously be moved toward greener technologies so a EV will only get greener over time in that department (gas cars pollute worse as they age). But I don't think the grid are the dirty areas of EVs to worry about... I would argue that batteries and things like tires are more concerning.

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Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
The 330e's MSRP is $3800 more than the 330i's. $3800 would buy a lot of gas. But, the MSRP's of the 530e and 530i are the same. So, it looks like there's enough profit in a 5 Series for BMW to be a little generous with the hybrid's pricing to improve their US CAFE and EU CO2 numbers.

There's the issue of a spare tire. Buying an OE spare tire wheel and jack for the hybrid's would be about $700, and then they'd be cluttering up the trunk. The conventional cars offer an optional spare for $150. The trunks are less deep with the spare, but the trunk floors are flat. The hybrids' trunks are less deep to accommodate the batteries.

The 530e doesn't offer a non-run-flat tire option. The 530i does. After the crap run-flats that came on my F10 535i, having non-run-flats is a big deal for me.

Li-ion batteries are getting better. BMW now warranties them for 8 years /80,000 miles. But, I keep my cars longer than that.

Yeah the price parity on the 530i and 530e makes the 530e a no-brainer IMHO. As you get some nice perks thrown in (such as remote climate control) alongside the better fuel economy. Then you get ~$5500 off from the Feds as well as various other incentives to ice the cake a bit and you're getting the better variant at a very attractive price.

I will concede that the run flat can be a very valid reason to go with the 530i over the 530e for a buyer. So far, I haven't had any problems with the OE Run Flats on my 530e, but I do wish I could swap them for the Conti DWS06 that I loved on my MB. Those tires rode well and easily lasted 50K miles.

Last edited by LogicalApex; 03-30-2020 at 02:27 PM.
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  #140  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:07 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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But since I am able to charge my car regularly the fuel economy on my 530e dwarfs anything I would have been able to do on diesel.
I'm sure most would agree but I'm not as convinced since most treat the cost of the electricity as "free" when they calculate equivalent mpg's/cost. Future price increases in electric rates may not be as friendly as well as state fees for EV's not paying road taxes. Clearly electricity has the potential of continue to be economical, but to what extent and at what convenience price is not completely written in stone....

Cheers.
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  #141  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:33 PM
guyinacar guyinacar is online now
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Electricity isn't cheaper than gas right now. Oil is pretty much free: "A barrel of oil is now cheaper than a pint of beer in Canada." I'm just going to concede the financial point, and I'm one of the PHEV zealots on these boards.

However, regenerative braking is an advantage in every possible way, and driving past fuel stations for weeks on end doesn't get old.
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  #142  
Old 03-30-2020, 03:49 PM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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I'm sure most would agree but I'm not as convinced since most treat the cost of the electricity as "free" when they calculate equivalent mpg's/cost. Future price increases in electric rates may not be as friendly as well as state fees for EV's not paying road taxes. Clearly electricity has the potential of continue to be economical, but to what extent and at what convenience price is not completely written in stone....

Cheers.
Yeah I am sure many do. I don't treat it as such. My EVSE allows me to accurately track use and include electrical costs so I can accurately see the cost of running on electrons. Those with less advanced EVSE would consider it to bothersome to calculate I am sure.

It costs me $1.21 to charge my 530e from dead at home. Currently the cheapest I can get a gallon of premium gasoline near me is $2.90/g. I averaged 30 full charge cycles in February and spent ~$30 on electricity to do it. My fuel cost went from over $70/m before adding my at home charger to ~15/m now ($45/m if you factor in the electricity). And this factors in my road trips a couple times a month. Sadly, since COVID has stopped road trips I haven't hit the gas station in almost 60 days as all of my trips have been urban and within my pure EV range.

I do a lot of city driving which is the least fuel efficient in any car and where electricity shines so I am able to see immediate positive gains.
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  #143  
Old 03-30-2020, 04:05 PM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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^^ sounds good to me. Not enough to offset trading in the diesel, but good to keep in mind should the need occur.
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  #144  
Old 03-31-2020, 05:47 AM
DBV DBV is offline
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I would take a diesel any day of the week over the electric. Especially, as I travel a lot and do mostly highway miles. If all I did was local driving then the electric make sense.
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  #145  
Old 03-31-2020, 07:41 AM
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I would take a diesel any day of the week over the electric. Especially, as I travel a lot and do mostly highway miles. If all I did was local driving then the electric make sense.


+1, exactly how I feel. The 600+ mile highway range with a 5 min fill up between is key. Iím loving my 540dX - rare beast here in USA. Stay healthy.
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  #146  
Old 03-31-2020, 09:01 AM
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What?

Are any of those EV a convertable (sic)?
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  #147  
Old 04-21-2020, 10:41 AM
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I still don't know exactly why anyone would get the 530i over the 530e
Sorry to revive this old thread, but I think this is the good spot to put the new information.

Friend sent me two images containing the article in Italian car magazine Quattroruote about a person who hit guardrail in his MB GLC 350e and activated air bags. The car went to body shop and came back with an estimate of 35,000 Euro to fix it. Bear with me, I am getting to the point.

After it was fixed, the hybrid system wouldn't work. Week of back and forth later, both dealer and owner learned that, when air bags deploy, the battery gets disconnected from everything with an explosion. Nothing new there, I think I remember that even the normal battery in my E92 would blow a connection in certain conditions. Unfortunately, when that happens on GLC 350e, you cannot reconnect it, you need a new one. 16,000 Euro.

They (car magazine) went and asked other manufacturers about the issue when electric part of the system gets disconnected for the safety of occupants and first responders, but BMW was not in that list. I can tell you what Toyota does, though. There is a number of safety relays keeping electric part connected to the system. They blow those out in the case of crash. I reasonably think that an industrial relay costs about $200 per to replace, give or take $100.

Now, if any of you knows that information, go ahead and post it. But I would be more inclined to think that BMW tends to do the same thing as MB rather than as Toyota. And if they do, that would be one HUGE reason to get 530i and not get 530e.
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  #148  
Old 04-21-2020, 10:43 AM
stevelup stevelup is offline
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If I crashed my car hard enough to trigger the airbags and the emergency battery disconnects, I wouldn't want it back anyway... That's what insurance is for!
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  #149  
Old 04-21-2020, 11:01 AM
LogicalApex LogicalApex is online now
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Sorry to revive this old thread, but I think this is the good spot to put the new information.

Friend sent me two images containing the article in Italian car magazine Quattroruote about a person who hit guardrail in his MB GLC 350e and activated air bags. The car went to body shop and came back with an estimate of 35,000 Euro to fix it. Bear with me, I am getting to the point.

After it was fixed, the hybrid system wouldn't work. Week of back and forth later, both dealer and owner learned that, when air bags deploy, the battery gets disconnected from everything with an explosion. Nothing new there, I think I remember that even the normal battery in my E92 would blow a connection in certain conditions. Unfortunately, when that happens on GLC 350e, you cannot reconnect it, you need a new one. 16,000 Euro.

They (car magazine) went and asked other manufacturers about the issue when electric part of the system gets disconnected for the safety of occupants and first responders, but BMW was not in that list. I can tell you what Toyota does, though. There is a number of safety relays keeping electric part connected to the system. They blow those out in the case of crash. I reasonably think that an industrial relay costs about $200 per to replace, give or take $100.

Now, if any of you knows that information, go ahead and post it. But I would be more inclined to think that BMW tends to do the same thing as MB rather than as Toyota. And if they do, that would be one HUGE reason to get 530i and not get 530e.
I'm very confused.

Are you saying a 530i is a better choice over a 530e because the 530e might cost more to repair in a crash scenario? If so, I can't understand why that would be a valid data point. For both cars I'd be looking at my deductible as my maximum exposure as that's what insurance is for.

If anything, that would make the 530e a better choice over the 530i because the additional repair cost will make it more likely the car would be totaled in the crash and you're able to get a crash-free replacement and not dealing with body shop repair quality.
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  #150  
Old 04-21-2020, 11:23 AM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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If I crashed my car hard enough to trigger the airbags and the emergency battery disconnects, I wouldn't want it back anyway... That's what insurance is for!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
If anything, that would make the 530e a better choice over the 530i because the additional repair cost will make it more likely the car would be totaled in the crash and you're able to get a crash-free replacement and not dealing with body shop repair quality.
You both have valid points, provided that insurance companies are still in the dark about their real exposure.

But point taken, comprehensive insurance is very rare in Italy because immensely expensive and the owner mentioned in the article that, had he known the full cost of the repair, he wouldn't have bothered in the first place. Also mentioned in the article was that it still didn't prevent him for swapping that ride for a turbodiesel less than a week after he got his ride back.
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