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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #26  
Old 04-06-2020, 11:30 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
When it comes to cheap tires, Gary is right there with the same old story.

As if tires are all the same.

Every lelxani, cosmos and Achilles is made on the same line as every Michelin and Goodyear.... Sure.
Hi ard, do you think large manufacturers do not have a need for a lower price point offer?

Having worked for three of the world's largest FMCG's in the past 20 years, I've seen all of these companies choose to go into "private label" production in order to help with cost absorption. Some did so thru manufacturing for 3rd parties in wholly-owned plants, others did so by leveraging the acquired capacity in 3rd party manufacturing facilities...

From a brands portfolio perspective, having a "Good + Better + Best" assortment enables companies to participate in multiple channels, and secures market share to defend against shrinking demand in single segments. From my perspective, this applies to most consumer goods.
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  #27  
Old 04-06-2020, 01:05 PM
Gary214 Gary214 is offline
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In case you are not aware, Pirelli brand is owned by the Chinese.

Many of the so called substandard cheap knock offs that we claim to be from China could be made on the same assembly lines as the famous Pirelli .
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  #28  
Old 04-06-2020, 01:33 PM
Chill_X5 Chill_X5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Milliwatt Rob View Post
I am uaing Nokian zLine all season tires, not the cheapest, but very affordable high performance tires. Made at Nokian's state of the art tire plant in St Petersburg, Russia
For how long have u had em for? Any issues? What do u like about them/hate?

Are you sure they are made in state of the art tire plant?
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  #29  
Old 04-06-2020, 01:33 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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List of tire companies and their brands. Elsewhere, ~500 brands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tire_companies
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  #30  
Old 04-06-2020, 01:45 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Business complexity of NOKIAN tire production

" Contract production of tyres (Wikipedia)
Nokian Tyres licenses production of its tyres to companies in the United States (Bridgestone, LaVergne, Tennessee plant), Slovakia (Matador, Puchov plant), Indonesia (PT Gajah Tunggal Tbk company), and the People's Republic of China (Giti Tire), as well as contracts manufacture of agriculture and industrial tyres in Spain and India.

In the past, some United States contract manufacturing was done by Cooper Tire's Findlay, Ohio plant.

Contract manufacture by Giti Tire includes production of up to 500,000 Nokian summer tyres with expansion up to 1.5 million tyres per year.

Some Nokian agricultural and industrial tyres were made under contract by the Tofan Grup in Romania for two years until December 1999, when Nokian Tyres withdrew, citing quality standards. Contract manufacture of these types of heavy tyres was then undertaken by Michelin at its Polish plant in Stomil-Olsztyn from 2000 until 2005, when Nokian began to shift contract manufacture of industrial tyres to Bridgestone's factory in Bilbao, Spain and agricultural tyres to Balkrishna Tyres in Bhiwadi, India. With an increase in tyre demand as a result of improving economies, Nokian is considering increasing production as well as outsourcing additional tyre manufacture in Asia."

NOKIAN is building production facilities in Dayton, Ohio, that should be in operation this year.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 04-06-2020 at 01:46 PM.
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  #31  
Old 04-06-2020, 02:57 PM
Gary214 Gary214 is offline
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Tire industry is all about outsourcing, branding and marketing

Last edited by Gary214; 04-06-2020 at 03:51 PM.
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  #32  
Old 04-06-2020, 03:29 PM
Gary214 Gary214 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
Thats ownership of brands.

It would be interesting to list which tire brands are made where.
You will never find that list because, Tire manufacturers are independent contractors and build tires from any brand who gives them a contract.
Today they build Michelin, tomorrow Bridgestone and next some unknown brand.
By the way , Fuzion , the lower end brand is owned by Bridgestone, the largest tire manufacturer .
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  #33  
Old 04-06-2020, 05:17 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
Hi ard, do you think large manufacturers do not have a need for a lower price point offer?

Having worked for three of the world's largest FMCG's in the past 20 years, I've seen all of these companies choose to go into "private label" production in order to help with cost absorption. Some did so thru manufacturing for 3rd parties in wholly-owned plants, others did so by leveraging the acquired capacity in 3rd party manufacturing facilities...

From a brands portfolio perspective, having a "Good + Better + Best" assortment enables companies to participate in multiple channels, and secures market share to defend against shrinking demand in single segments. From my perspective, this applies to most consumer goods.
100% agree.

Top line companies will surely offer less quality through channels that dont 'hurt' their own main brand.

My point is that gary consistently posts that all tires are the same, made the same, same production lines, same production methods, same everything- with the sole exception the marketing budget and profit. COnstantly. Even above. 'same tire, just different marketing'

The idea that you can buy michelin latitudes...or Niokian whatever.. as a no-name brand is nonsense.

Try and road force balance a $70 brand new tire... tell me its a Lattitude but just $200 less.



I will add- I was giving the OP a hard time. Ive got no issue with saving money, trading off $$ for whatever. Its the silly 'all the same' thng that I reject.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 04-06-2020 at 05:18 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-06-2020, 06:50 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Iíll pop back in. Price point alone is not an accurate comparison of quality. That being said I would always choose a well known top brand in most situations. Cosmos come with NO tread warranty. That being said I have no idea what to expect. I bought them because I have full control over my driving for the next 4 months at least. My Dueler RFTs were approaching low tread and I have work to perform on my X5. It is interesting to think about how much cost could possibly be saved by choosing different materials or construction design tire by tire. Cosmos come with a description of the layering of materials but what we canít see is the difference. I am very satisfied so far. I havenít seen a single true test of Cosmos. I do wonder how many entry tires become relabeled as big company staples after some time.


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  #35  
Old 04-06-2020, 07:40 PM
Milliwatt Rob Milliwatt Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill_X5 View Post
For how long have u had em for? Any issues? What do u like about them/hate?

Are you sure they are made in state of the art tire plant?
I have had them on for 25,000 miles. I expect to get close to 50,000 miles.

In Vermont, I run them year round. No, I wouldn't go through deep unplowed snow with them, but they are fine on semi cleared winter roads on the X5

Here is a video about the plant in Russia. Sorry, not in English.

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  #36  
Old 04-07-2020, 04:05 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milliwatt Rob View Post
I have had them on for 25,000 miles. I expect to get close to 50,000 miles. In Vermont, I run them year round. No, I wouldn't go through deep unplowed snow with them, but they are fine on semi cleared winter roads on the X5

Here is a video about the plant in Russia. Sorry, not in English.
The spoken language is indeed not English. The computer displays are.

I have NOKIAN WR G3 year around. When the weather and my garage warms up Iíll measure wear after 15 months.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #37  
Old 04-07-2020, 04:07 PM
Mlive Mlive is offline
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Nice April fools joke man, but to be serious anyone reading this I recommend you going to to tire rack and checking out there professional reviews for what you are looking for I'm not informing them I'm not payed but them or anything but I've found there reviews on tires awesome I've gotten 2 sets so far for my car based on what kind of performance I'm looking for up here in the north east
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  #38  
Old 04-07-2020, 04:20 PM
ard ard is offline
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One caution about tirerack reviews: as i recall, they use a fleet of SMALL cars. Like BMW 3 series I think. This means their reviews dont really 'work' for big cars, SUVs. A tire that works nicely on a small car can be a wallowy POS on an X5. or a larger M car.

When you look at their reports from owners, pay attention to what car they are discussing

finally, people just LOVE heir new tires. Tirrack owner reviews seem to just turn into 'new tire model echo chambers'. Everyone hates the old worn out POS OE tire, loves whatever new tire they put on.

FWIW.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM

Last edited by ard; 04-07-2020 at 05:37 PM.
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  #39  
Old 04-07-2020, 04:32 PM
Mlive Mlive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
One caution about tirerack reviews: they use a fleet of SMALL cars. Like BMW 3 series I think. This means their reviews dont really 'work' for big cars, SUVs. A tire that works nicely on a small car can be a wallowy POS on an X5. or a larger M car.

When you look at their reports from owners, pay attention to what car they are discussing

finally, people just LOVE heir new tires. Tirrack owner reviews seem to just turn into 'new tire model echo chambers'. Everyone hates the old worn out POS OE tire, loves whatever new tire they put on.

FWIW.
100% agree with you on that, the OEM stuff is always whatever is cost effective and easy to specs to the dealer system so it's up to us as owners of the vehicle to do the research and figure out what we like for our application. I'm not saying the tire rack review system is perfect, I'm just saying it's a good place to find a good set of tires with customer backed reviews and products that are tested by the company itself. They aren't just trying to sell you a tire like a tire shop.
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  #40  
Old 04-07-2020, 05:07 PM
Rover Rover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgentoCarNut View Post
This is interesting... I know most of us are heavily influenced by the enormous marketing efforts that poured millions of dollars into the replacement tire market around the globe a few years ago... Especially with the clear understanding of them being safety components in an automobile. Nowdays however, there are new regions/markets to target where consumers behave differently towards established brands - they simply don't relate to them the way "the west" does*. Yet, large tire manufacturers, aka: "The Big Brands" still need to find a path to sell them their goods.

From my perspective, these brands become part of the landscape as OPP Offers (Opening Price Point) coming from the main brand manufacturer. In essence, they are so far below the premium price point, that they are non-competitors. Yet, they can help with fixed cost absorption and continue expanding total market share.

I am an "early millennial" and there were three generations prior to me in my family who have owned cars. I've only met two, and both were adamant about purchasing what they considered to be the absolute best in car tires - Michelin, or alternatively, Goodyear. For them these two brands had "backing" from a serious and reputable manufacturer. Anything else was "cheap" - From my perspective this was marketing well done.
You may want to look at the Tire Rack site for results from their tire testing....and the numerous comments from folks who own a car similar to yours...and their experiences with the suggested tires. Second...Look at Consumer Reports....who holds certain models of the Bridgestone Duelers in high regard.
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  #41  
Old 04-07-2020, 05:37 PM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover View Post
You may want to look at the Tire Rack site for results from their tire testing....and the numerous comments from folks who own a car similar to yours...and their experiences with the suggested tires. Second...Look at Consumer Reports....who holds certain models of the Bridgestone Duelers in high regard.

I am familiar with Tire Rack - I bought my tires to replace the RFT Bridgestones on the X5.

When looking at options and at what I prioritized, I ended up looking into a brand I had not considered before: Sumitomo.

I had a pre-conceived idea about the brand, and thought of it as an off brand or cheap ďricerĒ type gear. Turns out the brand belongs to the largest Japanese Keiretsu, so backing is as solid as can get. to be clear: their revenue is 2X that of Michelin...

This made me think about the way I look at tires and purchase for my cars, and makes me chose differently.


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  #42  
Old 04-07-2020, 05:52 PM
ard ard is offline
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Tire conversations always have that propensity to devolve into a class discussion...or a 'if you cant afford to put the most expensive tires on a BMW maybe you cant afford a BMW"...or 'you get what you pay for"...all that stuff around $$ decisions.

IMO anyone that makes a solid, data driven decision about tire, brand, performance and their need, is making a fine decision.

I look forward to OPs review.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #43  
Old 04-07-2020, 06:11 PM
drmel drmel is offline
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I can't let the OP go down alone. I switched from Mich run flats to Otani's last year when I bought a set of staggered M4 wheels and haven't looked back. Been roaming around the Chicago streets unaffected for months. The tread pattern was similar to a set of Bridgestones I found. And, they're made in Thailand - the rubber capital of the world. I have no doubt they're made on the same assembly line as big name brands. A good friend of mine just got his PhD in Marketing and showed me numerous research papers about how brand awareness drives prices and several blind studys show consumers being nearly 100% unaware of a brand when there are no labels. It's literally a mind game and like another post said, you're paying the premium to fuel marketing budgets.

I got the tires from Priority Tire with hazard protection so I'm not worried.
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  #44  
Old 04-07-2020, 07:22 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Iím the OP and Iím not going down. If I didnít test in the right situation then only uneducated people would. Cheap tires are seen all around on peopleís vehicles when they say ďI want the cheapest tire.Ē Wooden tires are better than the Bridgestone run flats when they get below 80% tread. They just donít leave you stranded. Are Nikeís really better than the other sneakers? If you take marketing away the price points would be much closer. If Iím not mistaken, big tire companies also pay for their tires to be mentioned or awarded at times. Again this is not a ďthis tire is as good as the $400 tireĒ test.


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  #45  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:01 PM
El Beemo El Beemo is offline
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What?

I dont know why everyone complains about rf tires. I have an X6 with Conti rft and they dont ride hard. The Bridgestone duellers are some of the worst tires ive ridden on and the treadlife is horrible. As far as the tires you described it sounds like a joke, never heard of them. Incant understand why you would spend money on a luxury car just to put pos tires on it.
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  #46  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:29 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Originally Posted by El Beemo View Post
I dont know why everyone complains about rf tires. I have an X6 with Conti rft and they dont ride hard. The Bridgestone duellers are some of the worst tires ive ridden on and the treadlife is horrible. As far as the tires you described it sounds like a joke, never heard of them. Incant understand why you would spend money on a luxury car just to put pos tires on it.


This isnít a complaint about run flat tires. The Duelers serve a purpose. They run flat. They are hard though and noisy when tread starts to dwindle. I donít think you read the whole post. Either way. Opinions are what this forum is for. A 12 year old X5 is no longer a luxury car but it maintains the performance.


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  #47  
Old 04-07-2020, 11:31 PM
deroy deroy is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
One caution about tirerack reviews: as i recall, they use a fleet of SMALL cars. Like BMW 3 series I think. This means their reviews dont really 'work' for big cars, SUVs. A tire that works nicely on a small car can be a wallowy POS on an X5. or a larger M car.

When you look at their reports from owners, pay attention to what car they are discussing

finally, people just LOVE heir new tires. Tirrack owner reviews seem to just turn into 'new tire model echo chambers'. Everyone hates the old worn out POS OE tire, loves whatever new tire they put on.

FWIW.


Well said. Myself, I donít give a toss about 99% of user reviews of tyres. Even my own one. Users including myself suffer immense confirmation bias.

The german magazines and the roadside assistance club does very extensive (almost) academic testing. 100s if not 1000s of real road miles, endless results tables. Thatís educated results. Usually the familiar brands are in the top, and a few budget surprises. But hardly ever chines no-names, most drop out in the first few tests and are not carried forward to the second testing phase.



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  #48  
Old 04-08-2020, 04:24 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Originally Posted by BabyUnicornTaco View Post
A 12 year old X5 is no longer a luxury car but it maintains the performance.
Well said. Woo hoo. Outstanding!

I love mine! I love mine, dings, scratches, worn spots, and all!
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
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  #49  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:41 AM
Gary214 Gary214 is offline
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Originally Posted by El Beemo View Post
I dont know why everyone complains about rf tires. I have an X6 with Conti rft and they dont ride hard. The Bridgestone duellers are some of the worst tires ive ridden on and the treadlife is horrible. As far as the tires you described it sounds like a joke, never heard of them. Incant understand why you would spend money on a luxury car just to put pos tires on it.


My 2011 X5 50i M Sport cost $80 grand when it was new. It may have come with a tires costing 500 dollars each.

But now its KBB value is less then 8 grand.
So I am justified in putting tires which cost about 100 bucks each.
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  #50  
Old 04-08-2020, 06:49 AM
ArgentoCarNut ArgentoCarNut is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary214 View Post


My 2011 X5 50i M Sport cost $80 grand when it was new. It may have come with a tires costing 500 dollars each.

But now its KBB value is less then 8 grand.
So I am justified in putting tires which cost about 100 bucks each.

You are splurging... should spend $50 a corner based on depreciation math LOL


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