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  #1  
Old 06-29-2019, 11:04 AM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Rear Camber Tire Wear: Alignment or Refresh?

2008 X5 4.8i with adaptive suspension. I went from a little camber wear to a lot in the past few months. I know I am due for an alignment and it has been at least 65,000 miles since any rear suspension parts were replaced. The rear was recently down to 31 psi from 35 psi over the past month so Iím sure that contributed as well.

1. Will an alignment be enough to correct this wear or will an alignment just be compensating for worn bushings?

2. My suspension feels good at the rear (subjective I know) but the camber wear is the only obvious symptom. Itís been a few years since my last alignment. What are the suspension pieces that would most contribute to camber issues?

3. Suggested kits to use? How difficult and time consuming would this rear refresh be?

Thanks for any suggestions.

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  #2  
Old 06-29-2019, 01:22 PM
wfw03 wfw03 is offline
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That is one un-safe tire to be driving on.

I wpuld suspect lower carrier ball joint and associated bushings. It appears to me that the affected side has been running low on tire pressure and ride height for some time.
A good alignment shop that speciallizes in current BMW models should be able to find the worn components and give you the opportunity to replace them and then do a correct alignment. It is tight back there to easily check for sloppy joints.

Replace that tire before you need to replace body panels as well (from shredding tire)

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Old 06-29-2019, 01:26 PM
ard ard is offline
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If your alignment is bad, then changing the alignment should fix it.

But if it i OK, then likely needs parts.

IMO that is not at all an uncomon BMW tire.... You know the drill, numbers are below in my sig. $99. Go get it done
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:43 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Rear Camber Tire Wear: Alignment or Refresh?

Yeah. Iíll replace the tire with one from the stack in my garage. I just happened to park in a way to be able to see that torn area. I guess Iíll start with an alignment. I have a feeling that after it sat for 45 days in my garage that maybe it lost some air and maybe had a bit of a flat spot that tore. Not sure. Thanks for the input. Iíll report my alignment specs. If the alignment is successful to within ard specs should I assume suspension existing parts are adequate?


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Old 06-29-2019, 02:39 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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Lift that side wiggle the wheel and feel/ look for clunks or wobble. If none then yeah, alignment. Btw how is the rear camber and toe adjusted?
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:44 PM
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[ ... ] how is the rear camber and toe adjusted?
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...rement/QEcQc5W
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Old 06-29-2019, 03:20 PM
ard ard is offline
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'ntro might mean 'what is the current adjustment set to' not 'now do you adjust it'.... :shrug:
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


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Old 06-29-2019, 03:26 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
'ntro might mean 'what is the current adjustment set to' not 'now do you adjust it'.... :shrug:


Good question. I donít know. It was done at a different shop. Iíd have to contact them. I donít have a printout. The shop I go to now will work to meet the right specs though. Iíll ask for a before and after.


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Old 06-29-2019, 03:59 PM
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Id get it done, try and hit my specs.

BUT...getting accurate before numbers wil be important in estimating if there is an underlying mechanical/wear issue. (If the before has nasty toe and aggressive camber, then less concern at chasing a part....)

You may want to lighten the rear camber, not the usual mid spec,but a bit less. As I recall you are staggered and have the 300ish rears? Also,run higher air pressure.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 06-29-2019, 04:27 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Id get it done, try and hit my specs.

BUT...getting accurate before numbers wil be important in estimating if there is an underlying mechanical/wear issue. (If the before has nasty toe and aggressive camber, then less concern at chasing a part....)

You may want to lighten the rear camber, not the usual mid spec,but a bit less. As I recall you are staggered and have the 300ish rears? Also,run higher air pressure.


I know my shop will tell and show any wear items. I am staggered with the 315/35r20s on the rear. Iíll get the before and after. I have always had the typical camber wear. I donít know how much a few months of 31 psi instead of 35 mattered.


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Old 06-29-2019, 05:17 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Here's a cheat sheet on which wear patterns are caused by which problems. That looks like a toe (out) problem more than a camber problem. Camber makes tires conical, but doesn't shred up the edge like in the picture.
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  #12  
Old 06-29-2019, 05:22 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Here's a cheat sheet on which wear patterns are caused by which problems. That looks like a toe (out) problem more than a camber problem. Camber makes tires conical, but doesn't shred up the edge like in the picture.


Yeah. I have seen that diagram. Thanks. Whatís the biggest contributor to tow problems on the rear?


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Old 06-29-2019, 05:30 PM
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Yeah. I have seen that diagram. Thanks. Whatís the biggest contributor to tow problems on the rear?


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Pretty much the same as toe problems in the front: curbs and potholes, followed by worn suspension parts.
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Old 06-29-2019, 05:36 PM
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Pretty much the same as toe problems in the front: curbs and potholes, followed by worn suspension parts.
****ty BMW alignment specifications.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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Old 06-29-2019, 05:46 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Pretty much the same as toe problems in the front: curbs and potholes, followed by worn suspension parts.


Yeah. I get that. Iím just wondering what parts of the suspension are most linked to toe issues? Trying to learn some here. I have minimal suspension experience but you guys know Iíll dive in. I appreciate the responses.


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Old 06-29-2019, 05:56 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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'ntro might mean 'what is the current adjustment set to' not 'now do you adjust it'.... :shrug:
No, I meant how to adjust it. Curious to see how much it can move. Thanks Doug for the link.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:00 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Yeah. I get that. Iím just wondering what parts of the suspension are most linked to toe issues? Trying to learn some here. I have minimal suspension experience but you guys know Iíll dive in. I appreciate the responses.


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BTFOM. I can't do an alignment myself, so I just take it in. Good luck on your adventure, though.

I've found out the hard way that a 1/10th of a degree of toe can make a world of difference.
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:36 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Ha. I wonít be attempting an alignment myself. I donít want another adventure. Just wanted to know what bushings, etc. contributed to the most toe issues. Iíll do some research.


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Old 06-30-2019, 03:45 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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I've found out the hard way that a 1/10th of a degree of toe can make a world of difference.
The extremes of the allowable range have extreme effects on wear and handling.

0.1į is 0į 6' IIRC about half of the allowable range.

Rear camber allowable range allows positive camber!

The mechanic's "Oh, it's in spec!" is meaningless and probably free money for him, capitalizing on the demotic American's innumeracy.
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

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Old 06-30-2019, 05:33 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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The extremes of the allowable range have extreme effects on wear and handling.

0.1į is 0į 6' IIRC about half of the allowable range.

Rear camber allowable range allows positive camber!

The mechanic's "Oh, it's in spec!" is meaningless and probably free money for him, capitalizing on the demotic American's innumeracy.
I had a Chevy pick-up truck that came out of alignment from the factory. I caught it early by frequently inspecting the tires. The dealership aligned it, but "to spec." It had the maximum amount of toe-in allowed, and slight positive camber as allowed by spec. It was still eating the outside edge of the front tires, but less so.

After about 35k miles, I paid $100 to have all four tires flipped on the rims, putting a fresh edge on the outside. That, and over-inflating the tires allowed me to get 74k miles out of the original tires.

I had a Nissan with a front toe-in spec of 0.1 degrees. The guy at the Nissan factory in Tennessee didn't see or understand the negative sign. It was chewing the inside edge of the front tires. I caught this early, got it aligned under warrant, and got 60k miles out of the OE tires.

I'd had to get annual hearing tests in the reserves. I failed the test one year.... having thresholds over 15 dB. This was odd, since the loudest things in my workspace was a IBM Selectric typewriter and a CWO4. Finally, I asked to see the test machine's print out, and... wompÖ.. there it was... a negative sign in front of the 15.

"Putzer, go out to the trailer and get your hearing tested."

"What?"

I dig your wrap about innumeracy. It's possible to get a bachelor's degree without ever taking algebra, yet those people who do this rant about engineers not receiving a well rounded education.

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Old 06-30-2019, 11:26 AM
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Extra credit:


What is the BMW new car warranty on alignment? (yes, there is one...)
__________________
Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #22  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:06 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Extra credit:


What is the BMW new car warranty on alignment? (yes, there is one...)
Quote:
New SAV Limited Warranty - 2012 Models
(Valid only in the U.S.A. and including Puerto Rico)
[ ... ]
Other Items
Wheel alignment, balancing and wiper blade inserts are covered up to 2,000 miles.
[ ... ]
Coverage
The BMW Maintenance Program covers all factory-recommended maintenance, as determined by the Condition Based Service (CBS) system. Additional specific items that need replacement due to normal wear and tear, and that are not covered by the original New SAV Limited Warranty - such as brake pads, brake rotors and wiper blade inserts - are included, provided wear and tear exceeds BMW specifications. Any applicable adjustments required due to normal operating conditions are also included. See pages 9 - 10 of this booklet for additional information.
Exclusions from coverage include the following:
> Items reimbursable under your New SAV Limited Warranty
> Gasoline and diesel fuel
> Gasoline and diesel fuel additive
> Diesel glow plugs
> Diesel particulate filter
> Windshield washer additive (except when in conjunction with scheduled maintenance)
> Tires, wheel alignment, tire balance and rotation
> Wear and tear of soft trim items, such as: seats, carpets, moldings, headliner, door panels and all chrome trim
!
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

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  #23  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:27 PM
BabyUnicornTaco BabyUnicornTaco is offline
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Inspected today. Might have found my culprit. Left and right.

Edit: Are these the sway bar end links? if so they wouldn't effect my alignment correct?Click image for larger version

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Old 06-30-2019, 01:57 PM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Originally Posted by BabyUnicornTaco View Post
Edit: Are these the sway bar end links? if so they wouldn't effect my alignment correct?
Yes

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ll-bar/GQofQr9

Home / BMW E70 X5 4.8i SAV / Repair Manuals and Technical Data / 32 Steering and Wheel Alignment / 32 00 Steering, measurement /
31 00 ... Front axle + steering: wheel/chassis alignment check must be carried out after the following work

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...rement/QHgymiK
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Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

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  #25  
Old 07-01-2019, 09:40 AM
ard ard is offline
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I should have added, WITHOUT looking it up.

The point, however, being that you almost never can see odd tire wear in 2000 miles.
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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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