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F10 / F11 (2011 - 2016)
The sixth generation of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) was produced from 2011 - 2016 with LCI updates arriving in 2014. In the US BMW offered a hatchback 5 Series Gran Truismo (F07) and the rest of the world also go a Station Wagon/Touring version F11.

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  #1  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:15 PM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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2015 528i oil change 5w to 0w-30

BMW getting rid of 5w-30 oil ? And changing to 0w-30?

I've been using 5w-30 since I got the car. Is ow-30 really usable for my car? I live in San Francisco. The place I normally get the bmw genuine oil at doesn't sell 5w-30 anymore but I can still order it online.

What's your opinion on switching to 0w-30?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:53 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Slightly better MPG. Slightly less wear protection. MAYBE slightly more oil consumption.

The "30" number is the SAE viscosity index at 212F (100C). But, that's a range, not a precise value. So, some XW-30's can have higher high temperature viscosities than others. Here's a screen shot showing the LL-01 spec' requires a slightly higher "High Temperature, High Shear" (HTHS) viscosity than LL-01FE (>3.5 cP vs. >3.0 cP).

In really cold weather, there'd be some benefit from the having a 0W rating (SAE viscosity index at 32F (0C). But, SF doesn't get that cold.

I'm using LL-01 (5W-30) because it's still available. I bought some at a BMW dealer a few weeks ago. But, if it ends up being unavailable, I wouldn 't be worried.

There were rumors that BMW was going to stop selling 5W-30 in the U.S. But, it never happened.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2019, 12:44 PM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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.5 difference is that a big deal? Less wear protection means better or worse for my car?

Currently with 5w-30 even after driving over 8000 miles I do not have any loss of oil consumption. My car still shows full.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:24 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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It'd be a big deal if you regularly go 130 MPH through Death Valley. Putting around SF, maybe not. Frau Putzer's 2018 X3 uses 0W-20 oil. I'm not worried about that.

My 535i with 63k miles on it now uses about one liter every 8500 miles, about when I do an oil change anyway.

Check to see when you car was built. The early 2015 528i's with the N20/N26 engines have a real problem with the timing chains, to the point that BMW extended the warranty to 7/70 on the engines. But, after that you're on your own. Upgrading one of those early N20/N26 engines with the new, better parts costa around $4k. But, that's cheaper than a new engine.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 12-07-2019 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 06:24 PM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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My 2015 one was sold to me on December of 2015. When it was built and how long it was on their lot idk... are you saying the early 2015 like January were bad. But later like maybe starting October those 2015 that were made were made with the better engines ?
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Old 12-07-2019, 06:59 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TicklemeElmo View Post
My 2015 one was sold to me on December of 2015. When it was built and how long it was on their lot idk... are you saying the early 2015 like January were bad. But later like maybe starting October those 2015 that were made were made with the better engines ?
I recall reading that the upgraded engine production started in January 2015. But, it might take a few weeks for an engine to make it to the final assembly plant. If your car was built in January 2015 and still on the dealer's lot in December 2015, the car was demonically possessed. A lot of dealers finance their new car inventory. Those finance companies often refuse to finance a car that old, figuring something wrong or that the care might not even exist. So, you're probably safe. There's a way to look up all the data on your car with the VIN.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 12-07-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:09 PM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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Some of the comments online say 5w-30 is what you use to keep your car passed 100,000+ miles. Should I just use that liquid molly brand 5w-30? I'm hearing great stuff about it that it's better than bmw oil.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TicklemeElmo View Post
Some of the comments online say 5w-30 is what you use to keep your car passed 100,000+ miles. Should I just use that liquid molly brand 5w-30? I'm hearing great stuff about it that it's better than bmw oil.
I duh know. Frau Putzer's V6 Honda was fine after 147k miles on 5W-20, mostly Mobil 1 Extended Performance. At 140k miles, it still got the same highway fuel economy as when it had 40k miles, and it still went 8k miles between oil changes with no need for topping off.

"The Internet" says that putting BMW LL-14FE+ 0W-20 in an engine will cause the end of days. But, that's what I'm dong with Frau Putzer's new X3.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TicklemeElmo View Post
.5 difference is that a big deal? ...
It is when factored over the entire fleet.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:49 AM
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It is when factored over the entire fleet.
This.

MPG's shown on the window sticker of a car are always integers. But, when governments calculate the car company's CAFE or CO2 emissions, they use real numbers (with decimal points). Those fractions of an MPG over literally millions of cars add up.
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Old 12-08-2019, 01:58 PM
F10Dan F10Dan is offline
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Personally, I would not feel comfortable with a 0. But old timers when I was growing up never trusted a 10w30. So, who knows? If I was in Nocal, I would use a 5w40.
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:58 AM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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I'm not sure if this is normal but I've always thought cars temperature gauge were always suppost to be in the middle. In the attached photo 250 is the middle but I have never seen my car temp reach the middle. I drive the car usually 30 minutes to 1 hour from point A to point B, so pretty sure its all warmed up.

I keep hearing that 0w-30 is for places with colder whether. So because I don't live in a extremely cold whether area. If I used 0w-30 oil will that temp gauge reach the middle of 250?

Is everyone else's car the same like this ?
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  #13  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:38 AM
F10Dan F10Dan is offline
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I think most engine temps range from 190 to 210 and that this gauge is measuring the coolant temperature. This is managed by the thermostat not the oil type. Changing your oil viscosity will have little to no impact on engine/coolant temps.

I would also only use 0-30 in a very cold climate. Like near 0*. San Fran is more moderate all year. I am in the mountains of Northeast, PA. Right now we have ice and snow covering everything and temps going into the 20s at night. Yes, I love it! Makes me feel alive. Anyway, I put 5-40 Castrol in my wife's car it it runs fine. I would suggest the same for you.

The 0 weights offer some fuel savings which over millions of cars helps BMW meet its legislated environmental goals. However, for you, will in my opinion lead to poorer engine longevity. In the long run this will negate any environmental benefits as you will replace more parts on your car or possibly your entire car. Kind-a-like those EPA mandated gas cans that decrease evaporated gas, but when you use them they spill gas all over the place.

Last edited by F10Dan; 12-09-2019 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:31 AM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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On F10's the temperature gauge is the oil temperature, not the coolant temperature.

My 535i's oil temperature is always below 250F. But, it gets closer to 250F at interstate speeds. My old E46 M3's oil temperature would go down on the interstate, but would go well past 250F in stop and go traffic. That's because the M3's engine sprayed oil in the bottom of the pistons to keep them cool, and that transferred a lot of heat to the oil. That was fine as long as there was plenty of air flowing through the oil's heat exchanger.

I live less that 500 feet from a US highway with a 55 MPH or 45 MPH speed limit (depending on if I turn left or right coming out of my 'hood). I don't like to get up to those speeds until I see movement on the oil temperature gauge, meaning oil temperature going above 140F. So, I usually drive out the back of my 'hood, and trough a commercial district before getting back to the highway, about 1.3 miles. That's enough to get the needle moving. But, when my oil level is low it gets moving sooner. It takes my car over five miles to get the oil completely warmed up.

Yes, oil will heat up some from being pumped and from shear (being in between sliding metal surfaces), and viscosity is a relevant variable. But, most of the heat in the oil is from the combustion of fuel.

You're putting way to much mental and emotional energy in to the 0W vs. 5W issue. Since you're not chasing speeders with blue lights under your grill, towing a trailer, tracking (driving on a race track), or tear-assing across Death Valley at 120 MPH, it really doesn't matter.

Last edited by Autoputzer; 12-09-2019 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TicklemeElmo View Post
I'm not sure if this is normal but I've always thought cars temperature gauge were always suppost to be in the middle. In the attached photo 250 is the middle but I have never seen my car temp reach the middle. I drive the car usually 30 minutes to 1 hour from point A to point B, so pretty sure its all warmed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autoputzer View Post
On F10's the temperature gauge is the oil temperature, not the coolant temperature.
Ditto Autoputzer...you've worked yourself into a tizzy with an incorrect assumption. The little icon in the gauge indicates what it is for. On the F10...it is the oil temperature gauge...thus the icon is a thermostat above an "oil tin". The BMW models that have an engine coolant temp gauge...the icon looks different and is a thermometer over "2 wiggly lines" that represent water:




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Old 12-09-2019, 04:06 PM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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Strange when I try to purchase the oil off the bmw website it still sells me the 5w-30 instead of 0w-30 which isn't even listed. The announcement made to switch from 5w-30 to 0w-30 was in 2016.

I kind of get it now with the 30 weight. Meaning pretty much this two oils will be exactly the same when at normal temperature. The only difference between these two oils are that a 0w will flow more easily to all components on a cold start?

Which in that case why was a thicker 5w used in the first place? Ever since I had this car it's a bit different than my previous car, for start up and driving. I usually start the car up and let it idle for 1 minute. Then I start to drive. But it's a bit jerky, like if I put power right away and let go of the gas and it starts to slow down there's a bit of a push back. Hard to describe it's like a sudden stop and then forward motion a little. Doesn't happen when the car is all warmed up though.

Last edited by TicklemeElmo; 12-09-2019 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:46 PM
Autoputzer Autoputzer is offline
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The BMW LL-01 5W-30 is still a little thicker (has higher viscosity) than the BMW LL-01FE 0W-30 at operating temperature. The LL-01 is almost a 5W-40. But, since the high-temperature viscosity is below the minimum of an SAE 40, it's labeled as a 5W-30.

That jerkiness is most likely caused by a cold automatic transmission.

Multi-viscosity petroleum oil is made using viscosity improvers (VI's). They cause an oil to remain "thick" at higher temperatures. But, they break down due to heat. The greater the differenced between the W (winter) viscosity index and the operating temperature index with petroleum, the less stable and less durable the oil. But, synthetic oil uses less or sometimes no VI's. So, there's less of a concern about having greater differences between the W and high-temperature viscosity index of a synthetic oil.

Here's an LL-01 5W-30 oil change kit on sale for $58 and free shipping:

https://www.getbmwparts.com/p-f10-5-...my2016-pkf10oc


The same site sells BMW 0W-30 and 5W-30 oils a la carte:

https://www.getbmwparts.com/c-engine-oil-178
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:29 PM
TicklemeElmo TicklemeElmo is offline
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Thank you. I appreciate your help : )
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Old 12-10-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TicklemeElmo View Post
...I usually start the car up and let it idle for 1 minute. Then I start to drive. But it's a bit jerky, like if I put power right away and let go of the gas and it starts to slow down there's a bit of a push back. Hard to describe it's like a sudden stop and then forward motion a little. Doesn't happen when the car is all warmed up though.
You're probably experiencing an engine warm up cycle that isn't mentioned in your owners manual etc.

There has been a discussion of this type on just about every BMW forum I've been on in regards to tranny shifting in cold weather. Back in the day, BMW tech documents did explain an engine warm up cycle...and I doubt that they have walked away from this engineering design. See the info below (from the e38/e39/e46/e53 era) and determine if this is what you're describing. If you have the M/S shift lever sport gate...the next time you experience this issue...let up off the gas pedal and move the gear shift lever into the M/S sport gate (stay in sport mode) and see if this stops the jerking etc. When you go into the M/S position...this tuns off/deactivates any adaptive modes/cycles.

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Old 12-27-2019, 08:30 AM
SoSoTVo SoSoTVo is offline
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Originally Posted by TicklemeElmo View Post

Which in that case why was a thicker 5w used in the first place? Ever since I had this car it's a bit different than my previous car, for start up and driving. I usually start the car up and let it idle for 1 minute. Then I start to drive. But it's a bit jerky, like if I put power right away and let go of the gas and it starts to slow down there's a bit of a push back. Hard to describe it's like a sudden stop and then forward motion a little. Doesn't happen when the car is all warmed up though.
I recently purchased my first BMW and experienced the exact same thing. I've driven many vehicles before (owned a Lexus and rentals for work) and have never experienced a slight "jerk" when coming to a light or stop sign under 15MPH. The best way to describe it would be similar to "engine braking" at a very slow speed. I do notice that the car gets A LOT smoother once the temp needle starts to move.

This thread has been very helpful with understanding how the transmission is designed
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