Covid-19. Where's your head at on this??? - Page 38 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums



Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > Off-Topic

Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime safe" and in good taste. No personal attacks allowed. **Note** - Political posting is not allowed (or welcome) at Bimmerfest.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #926  
Old 05-14-2020, 01:31 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,972
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Aren't Canadians still technically subjects of the Crown? Therefore, even with an elected Prime Minister, subjects and not citizens?

From one of our founders; which one?

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
21 lines from the bottom, at [9], noting, 9. This sentence, frequently quoted, is used here by bf for the first time.

https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../01-06-02-0107
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #927  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:22 PM
zod zod is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 492
Mein Auto: 1987 BMW 535is 2008 E64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
SUPREME COURT OF WISCONSIN
2020 WI 42
Wisconsin Legislature,
Petitioner,
v.
Secretary-Designee Andrea Palm, Julie Willems Van Dijk and
Lisa Olson, In Their Official Capacities As Executives of
Wisconsin Department of Health Services,
Respondents.
ORIGINAL ACTION
May 13, 2020
May 5, 2020
[ ... ]
¶59
[ ... ]
By the Court.-Palm's Emergency Order 28 is declared unlawful, invalid, and unenforceable.
[ ... ]
https://www.wicourts.gov/sc/opinion/...f&seqNo=260868
Apparently they were taking stupid pills. Both parties wanted the order stayed for six days so they could get their **** in order.
  #928  
Old 05-15-2020, 03:38 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,972
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zod View Post
Apparently they were taking stupid pills. Both parties wanted the order stayed for six days so they could get their **** in order.
Right, so the court should sustain an unconstitutional and illegal order so that a lawful work around might be found? What is the objective in law and justice in this instant case?

There is no right to safety. The fundamental American rights are to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.". Death, sickness, the 'flu' are essential to life.

ETA later: Thanks for the inspiration. My local newsrag requested a Letter to the Editor, and I didn't have any inspiration to write. Now I must make it short enough. Milady Wife reports from booKgerface that the county commissioners have reinstated their previous equally unconstitutional orders. I am sure that my town board of idiots will comply with Superior Orders.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 05-15-2020 at 05:13 AM.
  #929  
Old 05-15-2020, 08:14 PM
zod zod is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 492
Mein Auto: 1987 BMW 535is 2008 E64
Natural laws have no pity
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	quarantine stupid.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	892601  
  #930  
Old 05-15-2020, 10:25 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
This is a report of the 3rd antibody test from the Stanford group, namely, 5k+ samples from MLB staff across US.

This cohort is mainly middle and upper-middle income, with social distancing and other [email protected]

The percentage of positive antibody test in this sample pool is 0.7%.

The good news is that it appears social distancing works to slow the spread.

The bad news are:

1. poor people are hit much harder than others.
2. 99.3% of MLB staff has not been infected by COV2, 2 months into the lockdown

So the interviewer and interviewee agreed that COVID-19 is far from over, and lifting lockdown will increase spread.

  #931  
Old 05-16-2020, 05:02 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,972
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Quaternary Ammonium Silane surface disinfectants

Investigate Quaternary Ammonium Silane surface disinfectants.
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
  #932  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:36 AM
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,806
Mein Auto: 2014 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
...
1. poor people are hit much harder than others...

I had no idea the virus was sentient and could target certain people.
__________________

Mike
2014 535i M Sport, Carbon Black/Black (mine)
2012 535i, Dark Graphite II/Oyster (wife's)
Joshua 24:15; Phil 4:13
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-lim/
  #933  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:44 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
I had no idea the virus was sentient and could target certain people.
Check out @7:30 of video in post#930, it explains the findings.
  #934  
Old 05-16-2020, 12:29 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
The warp speed COVID-19 vaccine efforts focus on mRNA vaccine that is unproven, is it likely there will be vaccine law that mandates such vaccination?

It looks like Supreme Court did side with public health in Jacobson v. Massachusetts.

"On February 20, 1905, the Supreme Court, by a 7-2 majority, said in Jacobson v. Massachusetts that the city of Cambridge, Massachusetts could fine residents who refused to receive smallpox injections. "

"In 1902, Pastor Henning Jacobson, suggesting that he and his son both were injured by previous vaccines, refused to be vaccinated and to pay the fine. In state court, Jacobson argued the vaccine law violated the Massachusetts and federal constitutions. The state courts, including the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, rejected his claims. Before the Supreme Court, Jacobson argued that, "compulsion to introduce disease into a healthy system is a violation of liberty.""

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...-public-health
  #935  
Old 05-16-2020, 02:14 PM
quackbury's Avatar
quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,465
Mein Auto: 540i; 330i
We'll be reduced to Donner Party status before there is ever an effective vaccine. What we need is an effective treatment regimen, and an understanding of the O2 saturation and clotting features.

Along the way we need to figure out the highest risk populations so we can protect them while the rest of us get back to work. For example, early on there was speculation that a smoking history increased risk and worsened outcomes. Now we're hearing that smokers have BETTER outcomes than non-smokers. Fake news from the tobacco lobby? Or worth large-scale statistical analysis.

We seem to have flattened the curve, solved the ventilator shortage and the PPE shortage. (Along the way we p*ssed away countless millions on field hospitals that never needed to be built, and hospital ships that never needed to be deployed. And the brainiacs decided to free all the prisoners because jail could make them sick, while sending COVID-positive patients to nursing homes to kill off grandma and grandpa). Despite our bungling, we've averted / lessened the crisis. Time for human kind to just start living with the virus in our midst, the same way we live with HIV and others. Manage the illness, protect the most vulnerable, help the infected get healthier quicker, and get on with our lives.
__________________
Current BMW's:

2020 540i MSport
2017 330i Sport

Prior BMW's
2018 340i RWD 6MT MSport
2017 540i MSport
2016 428 GC MSport
2015 X1 35i xDrive
2015 X1 28i xDrive
2014 535i MSport
2014 328i SportWagon
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
  #936  
Old 05-16-2020, 02:22 PM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,972
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Why effective CoViD-19 vaccine but not Influenza?

Milady Wife 81 y.o. has refused influenza vaccine, and we have had sharp words each Fall since I began my vaccinations. Why might we get an effective CoViD-19 vaccine after decades of failure to get an effective Influenza vaccine?

Beyond that, get pneumonia vaccine, as influenza doesn’t kill but opportunistic pneumonia does, and I believe that the same holds for CoViD-19

http://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronav...ngForCOVID.pdf. 26 pages
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.
  #937  
Old 05-16-2020, 03:40 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
Time for human kind to just start living with the virus in our midst, the same way we live with HIV and others. Manage the illness, protect the most vulnerable, help the infected get healthier quicker, and get on with our lives.
Since the pathogenesis of the COV2 is still not fully understood, it is unclear if the current understanding of vulnerability is solid enough.

E.g. CDC issues alert on COVID-19 related MIS-C on children, while all along children are expected to be relatively protected(?) from COVID-19.

The Stanford team's utube videos(3 total) are worth a watch. In the beginning the Stanford folks questioned the mortality % and the usefulness of the lockdown, and the intent of the antibody studies was to prove that the lockdown was unnecessary.

After 3 studies with 2 counties and one pro team organization, the conclusion is that the antibody % in general public is pretty low, and there is no hope of any herd immunity at the moment.

The interviewee(Dr Jay) still supported reopening, but conceded that it is life for life, for a long while. He specifically pointed out that no coronavirus vaccine has ever been developed successfully.

So at this point, the lockdown succeeded to slow the spread, and prep the medical systems to surge capacity, and retrain doctors to handle COVID-19 symptoms, but no cure nor vaccine are available yet.

Going forward, it seems the 1.5k-ish US deaths per day(on a good day) can be a norm for a while ....

Last edited by namelessman; 05-16-2020 at 03:42 PM.
  #938  
Old 05-16-2020, 03:55 PM
PropellerHead's Avatar
PropellerHead PropellerHead is offline
Brevity= the soul of wit
Location: At the wheel of a bimmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,524
Mein Auto: You've*got*to be kidding
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Going forward, it seems the 1.5k-ish US deaths per day(on a good day) can be a norm for a while ....
This is a real disappointment. That's nearly one HALF of the expected predicted, scare the public-fear-monger numbers for May that we herd (not a typo) just a few days ago. WTH is happening!? Is it.. Is it *possible* that May WONT have 3k deaths per day? Noooo.. Is it *possible* that these numbers, when cut by half are fncking worthless for anything but fear mongering? No, no no. We just cant have news that is better than it was.

Ohh right. Not to worry. It's STILL the WORST NEWS EVAR! Queue the social unrest pictures from Texas, stat! And.. and.. MURDER HORNET!

Last edited by PropellerHead; 05-16-2020 at 04:00 PM.
  #939  
Old 05-16-2020, 04:36 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by PropellerHead View Post
This is a real disappointment. That's nearly one HALF of the expected predicted, scare the public-fear-monger numbers for May that we herd (not a typo) just a few days ago. WTH is happening!?
This graph from Washington Post is one reference, the last 4 days were 1603, 1641, 1856, 1491 deaths.

Assuming these are accurate COVID-19 deaths with confirmed tests, an average is 1500 a day(on a good day), or 45k for a month, which is not a small number.

And no hurry, the 3k deaths/day is projected in June, so your question will be answered in due time.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...sf_coronavirus
  #940  
Old 05-16-2020, 05:11 PM
PropellerHead's Avatar
PropellerHead PropellerHead is offline
Brevity= the soul of wit
Location: At the wheel of a bimmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,524
Mein Auto: You've*got*to be kidding
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
And no hurry, the 3k deaths/day is projected in June, so your question will be answered in due time.
Good to see they've moved the needle. Again. It's easy to say they were right when they use a dart board with the bullseye labeled 'FEAR!" So much worry. Chin up tho, mongers of fear.. We WILL listen to these trusted millionaires getting their marching orders from untrusted billionaires. I, the lowly peasant will wring my hands and wait for the next kibble.

We'll get to that magic number. Wait and see. By hook and/or crook! And more and more folks than we ever said one Tuesday a month ago might die. They (probably) will. They simply most likely must.
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
There is a chance that this virus can become virulent and start killing off young folks too,
  #941  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:08 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by PropellerHead View Post
Good to see they've moved the needle. Again. It's easy to say they were right when they use a dart board with the bullseye labeled 'FEAR!" So much worry. Chin up tho, mongers of fear.. We WILL listen to these trusted millionaires getting their marching orders from untrusted billionaires. I, the lowly peasant will wring my hands and wait for the next kibble.

We'll get to that magic number. Wait and see. By hook and/or crook! And more and more folks than we ever said one Tuesday a month ago might die. They (probably) will. They simply most likely must.
It is unclear if the needle has been moved since the document was leaked.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...a-day-scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman
There is a chance that this virus can become virulent and start killing off young folks too,
And many parents in my locale are concerned about the latest CDC alert on MIS-C on children.

For those without young kids, this alert may just qualify yet another fear mongering, until someone in their family are unfortunately affected.
  #942  
Old 05-16-2020, 07:27 PM
zod zod is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 492
Mein Auto: 1987 BMW 535is 2008 E64
You can track daily deaths by country here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/d...R+USA+OWID_WRL

You can track total deaths here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/t...R+USA+OWID_WRL

IFP 701 is US deaths by 6/25. The early favorite is the 100-150K bucket. It's attractive, but I'm worried that its going to bust out long so I'm down to just sniper action.

IFP 403 - Brazil deaths by 7/25. I only need 6K more to be golden on the over 21K bucket. May and June are locks.

This dataset updates more often during the day: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
and you can drill down by country.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXbTDlLX...name=4096x4096

Last edited by zod; 05-16-2020 at 07:38 PM.
  #943  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:50 AM
Doug Huffman's Avatar
Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
Nuclear engineer
Location: Washington Island, Wisconsin, thru Death's Door
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 15,972
Mein Auto: CPO2012 X5 35d M57(E70)
Downward Virus Flux in Earth’s Atmosphere Is Over Three Billion Viruses Per Square Me

Downward Virus Flux in Earth's Atmosphere Is Over Three Billion Viruses Per Square Meter Per Day
Quote:
Apparently, the fact that viruses rein down on Earth by the billions-per-square-meter each day is old news. If you Bing the phrase, viruses falling from the sky, then you will retrieve page after page of links to stories that proclaim this amazing fact. Those links lead primarily to stories published online during the year 2018. These stories appeared on websites of major news outlets - where was I? - how did I miss this? I'm pretty sure that I wasn't abducted by aliens.
[ ... MORE]
Quote:
T4 bacteriophage joins artist, Luis Falero's 1878 painting, "Vision Of Faust", in a digital manipulation by Robert Kernodle
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/...omment-2996304
__________________
Scepticism and Animal Faith (1923)
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.
(The Works of George Santayana p. 65)

Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

Last edited by Doug Huffman; 05-17-2020 at 04:05 AM.
  #944  
Old 05-17-2020, 03:05 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
"COVID-19 patients with TAA(thoracic aortic aneurysm) should attract the highest vigilance as COVID-19 might expedite the process of TAA rupture through cytokine storm syndrome, leading to rapid death with little or no warning signs."

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-19416/v1
(not yet peer reviewed)

So there are 13k US deaths annually with thoracic aortic aneurysm(TAA), so it is likely some can be "accelerated" by COVID-19, so should COVID-19 be the cause of death?

Dr Jay also gave another example in the video of post#930, e.g. a patient with diabetes had a heart attack(due to damage from diabetes), then died from pneumonia when hospitalized, what should go on death certificate?
  #945  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:25 PM
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
ezaircon4jc ezaircon4jc is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,806
Mein Auto: 2014 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
..
So there are 13k US deaths annually with thoracic aortic aneurysm(TAA), so it is likely some can be "accelerated" by COVID-19, so should COVID-19 be the cause of death?

Dr Jay also gave another example in the video of post#930, e.g. a patient with diabetes had a heart attack(due to damage from diabetes), then died from pneumonia when hospitalized, what should go on death certificate?
Q1.. No; they would have succumbed to TAA anyway.


I was in that boat 3/18. I had 100% blockage in my left main artery; my new (to me) cardiologist said there was no medical reason I was alive. My primary cause of death would have been the heart attack brought on by diabetes (I read now that diabetes is now looking to be classified as a autoimmune disease and not metabolic) with pneumonia as a secondary cause.
__________________

Mike
2014 535i M Sport, Carbon Black/Black (mine)
2012 535i, Dark Graphite II/Oyster (wife's)
Joshua 24:15; Phil 4:13
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-535i-lim/
  #946  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:41 PM
zod zod is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 492
Mein Auto: 1987 BMW 535is 2008 E64
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Q1.. No; they would have succumbed to TAA anyway.


I was in that boat 3/18. I had 100% blockage in my left main artery; my new (to me) cardiologist said there was no medical reason I was alive. My primary cause of death would have been the heart attack brought on by diabetes (I read now that diabetes is now looking to be classified as a autoimmune disease and not metabolic) with pneumonia as a secondary cause.
The pathology is being learned on the fly. This disease can hose you up N numbers of ways for M number of years. When we had polio. you could see the cripples before your eyes.
  #947  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:05 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc View Post
Q1.. No; they would have succumbed to TAA anyway.


I was in that boat 3/18. I had 100% blockage in my left main artery; my new (to me) cardiologist said there was no medical reason I was alive. My primary cause of death would have been the heart attack brought on by diabetes (I read now that diabetes is now looking to be classified as a autoimmune disease and not metabolic) with pneumonia as a secondary cause.
Glad to hear the outcome was in your favor.

For Q1, the issue is that without COVID-19 induced cytokine storm, the TAA would not have become deadly, yet.

One of my previous posts argue that COVID-19 accelerated many pending fatalities, so the "normal" death rate for 2020(say, 2.8m to 3m) may stay the same.

However this acceleration also generates surges that, as [email protected], can (almost) overrrun medical systems(e.g. NYC had 23k excess deaths from March 11 to May 9).

And COVID-19 can lump pending TAA(e.g.) fatalities from the next 20 years(e.g.) into the next 6 months(e.g.).

Last edited by namelessman; 05-17-2020 at 05:26 PM.
  #948  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:24 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: northern california
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,030
Mein Auto: bimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by PropellerHead View Post
We WILL listen to these trusted millionaires getting their marching orders from untrusted billionaires. I, the lowly peasant will wring my hands and wait for the next kibble.
An alternate view is [email protected]:25 of the ingredients behind misinformation bonfire that drive conspiracy theories.

Inquisitive minds can freely munch on all sides to decide.

  #949  
Old 05-17-2020, 06:10 PM
wankel boy wankel boy is offline
30 year Mech E
Location: So Cal
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 205
Mein Auto: 2004 330i 2007 335i
Peter Navarro from 21:00 to 24:00. Don't know why the time stamp is not working.
__________________
-Wankel Boy 2004 330i 2007 335i 1991 300ZXTT 5 speed conversion

Last edited by wankel boy; 05-17-2020 at 06:16 PM.
  #950  
Old 05-17-2020, 07:22 PM
zod zod is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 492
Mein Auto: 1987 BMW 535is 2008 E64
The health of the economy is the health of the people. South Korea and Germany appreciate that.
Closed Thread

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > Everything Else > Off-Topic
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© 2001- VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.