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Old 11-22-2017, 12:24 PM
johninjax johninjax is offline
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Driving a time bomb?

I just got notified by BMW that my timing chain and oil pump drive chain now has a "limited warranty extension" to 7years/70,000 miles. I own a 2014 X1 with 128,000 miles. So where does that leave me? I called BMW Customer Relations, they told me it is 7/70,000, and that I can call if I have a problem.Great! So when my engine goes I can call. This must be a common issue if they're extending the warranty, I'm guessing anyone over 70k is SOL
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:27 PM
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acoste acoste is online now
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As far as I know the timing chain guide was addressed before your car was built but the chain itself got updated after.

https://bmwtechnician.com/2016/08/07...g-chain-issue/
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:38 PM
johninjax johninjax is offline
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If so why send me a letter with my VIN about this issue?
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johninjax View Post
If so why send me a letter with my VIN about this issue?
Because the chain itself was updated in 01/2015.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:45 PM
johninjax johninjax is offline
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I have a 2014.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:48 PM
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If I had a car with this engine, I would replace the timing chain + guide at 70k miles (cost around $2k) and sleep well.
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:39 PM
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I own a 2014 X1 with 128,000 miles. So where does that leave me?
I think you're good.
That's impressive mileage.
Sounds like you take care of your X1.
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Old 11-24-2017, 06:02 AM
themishmosh themishmosh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
If I had a car with this engine, I would replace the timing chain + guide at 70k miles (cost around $2k) and sleep well.
$2k replacement cost? I think I'd just as soon trade the car in before the 70k miles are up.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:11 AM
Carlín96/M44 Carlín96/M44 is offline
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Originally Posted by johninjax View Post
If so why send me a letter with my VIN about this issue?
You are lucky to received a letter, I have to ask for one.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:41 AM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
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A question for the mechanics among us. Assuming as others have said, that the guides break down causing the chain to malfunction, is it possible to visually inspect the guide assembly for damage from time to time, perhaps by removing the valve cover. Is this beyond the ability of most people with some basic mechanical knowhow?
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:04 AM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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From vids I saw, and looking myself, I think you can check through the oil fill cap.

My chain was tight, and plastic guide looked in good shape.

This is another reason not to use Eco-Pro which runs engine 10+ degs f hotter for better mpg.

I get approx 26 to 30 mpg on hwy depending on where wind is aimed; that's plenty good for me.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:37 AM
mcdanielvzw mcdanielvzw is offline
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If you can see it through the oil filler cap, you could always get a snake inspection cam that attaches to your phone (Amazon has these for $10-25). They have a 480p-720p camera and LED lights on the end. I'd recommend at least the 720p, especially if you have a higher end smartphone with FHD+ resolution.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:05 AM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
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Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
From vids I saw, and looking myself, I think you can check through the oil fill cap.

My chain was tight, and plastic guide looked in good shape.

This is another reason not to use Eco-Pro which runs engine 10+ degs f hotter for better mpg.

I get approx 26 to 30 mpg on hwy depending on where wind is aimed; that's plenty good for me.
I hooked up an ultragage device this summer when I drove out west on a backpacking trip, primarily to monitor alternator output as I was having battery charge problems (which turned out to be two bad batteries - the charging system was fine).

When I toggled to the coolant temperature I did not see any rise in temperature when I switched between to eco-pro mode and normal mode. I was rather surprised to see the coolant temperature max out at 238 degrees during highway driving. I thought that was a little high.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:30 AM
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bmwtechnician says:
October 10, 2017 at 10:29 am

Yes we can inspect the timing chain with a bore scope,,,,but we won’t be able to see if there are any problems about to happen,,,,what happened with that repair the engine shut down and the tech used a bore scope to see the damage of the chain and guide rails,,,,then he submitted the pictures to a puma case to show them what happen and then they approved a new engine.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:30 PM
Carlín96/M44 Carlín96/M44 is offline
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Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
This is another reason not to use Eco-Pro which runs engine 10+ degs f hotter for better mpg.
I'm wondering how that could happened (10+ degs hotter), when ECO PRO modifies the engine’s throttle response, and it sets the climate control, heated mirrors, and heated seats to work in a more energy-efficient manner.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:56 AM
Forteatwo Forteatwo is offline
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Originally Posted by Carlín96/M44 View Post
I'm wondering how that could happened (10+ degs hotter), when ECO PRO modifies the engine’s throttle response, and it sets the climate control, heated mirrors, and heated seats to work in a more energy-efficient manner.
I know we are getting a little off topic here but does anyone know how the Eco-Pro increases efficiency with the climate control. I assume it has something to do with the AC, perhaps not preheating the air before it is cooled as some cars do, or perhaps decreasing the compressor cycle frequency. Just curious.
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2017, 08:57 AM
0w40X1 0w40X1 is offline
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That temp change freaked me out the first time my gauge saw it.

I was driving down the road at 215 deg, and I turned off A/C while driving very steady at 70mph.

Temp went up to 236 deg (highest I've seen), but the second you give more gas which should give more heat the temp goes down to 209 deg.

Therefore while driving on track or hard on street temp is around 209 dge f.

It has to be the computer management running the electric water pump.

When engine is not heat soaked from driving hard, it sneaks up the water temps for more THERMAL EFFICIENCY.

I can idle in parking lot for 4 hours at 193 deg f running A/C, and use only 1 gallon gas.

Last edited by 0w40X1; 11-25-2017 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:55 PM
JuliaC_NM JuliaC_NM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johninjax View Post
I just got notified by BMW that my timing chain and oil pump drive chain now has a "limited warranty extension" to 7years/70,000 miles. I own a 2014 X1 with 128,000 miles. So where does that leave me? I called BMW Customer Relations, they told me it is 7/70,000, and that I can call if I have a problem.Great! So when my engine goes I can call. This must be a common issue if they're extending the warranty, I'm guessing anyone over 70k is SOL
Be glad you got a letter. I found out when my engine went a few months ago, with less than 30,000 miles on it, at just over the 3 year mark. The car had been into the service department just a few weeks prior.

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Old 12-04-2017, 10:28 AM
DC 10 DC 10 is offline
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Wow a 128K geez

I have a 2013 with 46400 miles - I guess, I should be good for a while.

So does it need to be replaced - and will the dealer do it? I am sure the answer is no, right?

Thanks,
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:06 PM
kevman2 kevman2 is offline
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Got my letter today but I am at 113k. Not worried about it. Letter went in the trash.
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  #21  
Old 12-06-2017, 12:52 PM
mickkassem mickkassem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
bmwtechnician says:
October 10, 2017 at 10:29 am

Yes we can inspect the timing chain with a bore scope,,,,but we won’t be able to see if there are any problems about to happen,,,,what happened with that repair the engine shut down and the tech used a bore scope to see the damage of the chain and guide rails,,,,then he submitted the pictures to a puma case to show them what happen and then they approved a new engine.
What would help prevent the problem? Oil changes, lower rpm, nothing? Have you seen this happen very often? Any way to publish vin # of vehicle having problems to see if we are close in production?
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mickkassem View Post
What would help prevent the problem? Oil changes, lower rpm, nothing? Have you seen this happen very often? Any way to publish vin # of vehicle having problems to see if we are close in production?
My personal answer to your question is: Do not use ASS (Auto Start Stop). I believe the timing chain and guide is somewhat stressed each and every time you start the motor. Again, just my personal view. YMMV.
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Old 12-13-2017, 03:43 PM
JuliaC_NM JuliaC_NM is offline
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I never used ASS or Eco, and mine went at under 30,000 miles. Bottom line, it's a poor design that puts additional stress on the timing chain, coupled with insufficient material quality for the timing chain guides. The guides have been redesigned with a supposedly better material, so time will tell.

You could proactively request that new guides be installed, but you'll be covering that out of pocket unless you can show the timing chain shows signs of undue wear, which would then be under the extended warranty.





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Old 12-13-2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forteatwo View Post
I know we are getting a little off topic here but does anyone know how the Eco-Pro increases efficiency with the climate control. I assume it has something to do with the AC, perhaps not preheating the air before it is cooled as some cars do, or perhaps decreasing the compressor cycle frequency. Just curious.
We should not allow this thread to go off-topic. Learning how to discover a pending timing chain failure is more urgent than an eco-pro discussion and it is not fair to the OP. Why not start a new thread?
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Old 12-13-2017, 04:41 PM
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What is happening here with N20 timing chains and guides involves several issues. The early N20 guides were made of a type of plastic which soon deteriorated with pieces breaking off allowing the chain to operate with excessive slack. This slack accelerated plastic guide wear and failure leading to eventual failure of the chain. When this condition is underway inside an N20 engine it is important to note plastic crumbs are continually being stripped off the deteriorated and failing guides which then get in the oil and accumulate inside the oil pump pick-up. When the engine's oil supply gets choked off you soon have a catastrophic failure.

It might be possible to do some detective work in order to learn when the revised parts went into production but this may be inexact and difficult to prove.

A far more reliable method would to become familiar with the sound of loose timing chains and periodically listen to your running engine with the hood up. There and many audio clips others have posted on this forum.
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