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  #51  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:33 PM
wc2222 wc2222 is offline
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Hey acoste,

Thank you so much for your expert advice! Man, you rock!

I just call up BMW NA and find out this part "BMW N20 AND N26 Engine Timing Chain and Oil Pump Drive" has an extended warranty of 7 years / 70,000 miles for my car. Hopefully this is the culprit. However, they tell me that I have to pay the up-front diagnostics fees which is like $5000 to disassemble the engine to figure out the root cause. Without that, BMW cannot reimburse anything. I wonder if we find out that is caused by some road debris/unknown object to damage some critical part, say some oil pipe or something which caused the low pressure, not sure if it would be a good idea to involve insurance company earlier or wait till weeks/months after the root cause is determined. What's your take on this?

Best,
SK
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  #52  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:50 PM
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acoste acoste is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wc2222 View Post
Hey acoste,

Thank you so much for your expert advice! Man, you rock!

I just call up BMW NA and find out this part "BMW N20 AND N26 Engine Timing Chain and Oil Pump Drive" has an extended warranty of 7 years / 70,000 miles for my car. Hopefully this is the culprit. However, they tell me that I have to pay the up-front diagnostics fees which is like $5000 to disassemble the engine to figure out the root cause. Without that, BMW cannot reimburse anything. I wonder if we find out that is caused by some road debris/unknown object to damage some critical part, say some oil pipe or something which caused the low pressure, not sure if it would be a good idea to involve insurance company earlier or wait till weeks/months after the root cause is determined. What's your take on this?

Best,
SK
Great!

$5000 sounds way too much, hope there is no trick there.
It takes ~3 hours to take apart the timing chain area and diagnose it, that would be $1000 in labor. I guess the $5000 is just a default value for engine diagnosis (it can take 8 hours to take it completely apart).

The engine is protected from below with a splash shield, so the oil pipe (there is one going to the turbo) can not be damaged by some small rocks. The only way to cause oil (pressure) drop is if you drive over a big rock that hits and cracks the oil pan. That can not go unnoticed. Also they would have already reported any visible damage on the outside of the engine.
So you can proceed with high confidence. Diagnosis should take less than a day. Plus maybe an overnight to wait for the answer from Germany.
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  #53  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:14 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wc2222 View Post
Hey acoste,

Thank you so much for your expert advice! Man, you rock!

I just call up BMW NA and find out this part "BMW N20 AND N26 Engine Timing Chain and Oil Pump Drive" has an extended warranty of 7 years / 70,000 miles for my car. Hopefully this is the culprit. However, they tell me that I have to pay the up-front diagnostics fees which is like $5000 to disassemble the engine to figure out the root cause. Without that, BMW cannot reimburse anything. I wonder if we find out that is caused by some road debris/unknown object to damage some critical part, say some oil pipe or something which caused the low pressure, not sure if it would be a good idea to involve insurance company earlier or wait till weeks/months after the root cause is determined. What's your take on this?

Best,
SK
If the diagnosed root cause is the timing chain per SIB, then the diagnostics fee will be covered by BMWNA.
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  #54  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:54 AM
apdavisiii apdavisiii is offline
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Jford79,

The issue you experienced with your 2012 328I BMW (Oil Pump Train Drive) is not an isolated case. Just this past Friday, my daughter was driving her 2012 328I BMW on the highway with the vehicle all of a sudden "locked" up on her. Fortunately, she was able to maneuver off of the highway without causing a major accident in which she and others could have been hurt. After waiting on a toll truck, she had the vehicle transported to the BMW dealership in Austin. The initial diagnosis was that the engine somehow failed and required a new engine costing approximately $17,000. However, I demanded a detailed diagnosis and was informed that it would cost approximately $1,100 to perform, which I authorized.

The BMW Service Advisor sent me images of their findings once the oil pan was removed. Bottom-line, the oil pump chain drive had failed (precise same problem that your vehicle experienced), and parts can be seen in the oil pan causing the catastrophic engine failure. As a BMW owner since 2002, I reached out to BMW of North America for some answer. This type of problem just doesn't happen to a BMW especially when you have had your scheduled services done over the course of the initial 50,000 miles plus. Additionally, the oil was just changed back in July 2017. My concern is that this problem had to have been identified by BMW and that there should have been some type of "Recall" done to fix this problem. Instead, what I discovered is exactly what others have reported within this forum (that an "extended warranty" has been issued for the Oil Pump Chain Drive" up to 70,000 miles). Great, however, once the issue occurs, it destroying the entire engine, and more importantly, potentially putting lives in danger if its occurs while driving.

After a few days, I received a call back from BMW of North America offering to assist with payment from $1,000 to $3,000, and ask if this was acceptable. "Not at all," was my response. I argued that I want answers why this issue was taking more seriously, and not reported to the public (instead quietly institute this silent 70,000 mile warranty). Additionally, I'm looking for what they are going to do to cover the cost of a new engine and demanded that they touch basis with the Service Advisor at the dealership to fully comprehend the extent of the problem. In the interim, my intent is to sit down with a lawyer to discuss a lawsuit if not a Class Action lawsuit to extend and assist others who have been affected by issue. More to follow as I'm waiting a further update from BMW of North America as to what they plan to do to support this engine failure....
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  #55  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:10 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apdavisiii View Post
Jford79,

The issue you experienced with your 2012 328I BMW (Oil Pump Train Drive) is not an isolated case. Just this past Friday, my daughter was driving her 2012 328I BMW on the highway with the vehicle all of a sudden "locked" up on her. Fortunately, she was able to maneuver off of the highway without causing a major accident in which she and others could have been hurt. After waiting on a toll truck, she had the vehicle transported to the BMW dealership in Austin. The initial diagnosis was that the engine somehow failed and required a new engine costing approximately $17,000. However, I demanded a detailed diagnosis and was informed that it would cost approximately $1,100 to perform, which I authorized.

The BMW Service Advisor sent me images of their findings once the oil pan was removed. Bottom-line, the oil pump chain drive had failed (precise same problem that your vehicle experienced), and parts can be seen in the oil pan causing the catastrophic engine failure. As a BMW owner since 2002, I reached out to BMW of North America for some answer. This type of problem just doesn't happen to a BMW especially when you have had your scheduled services done over the course of the initial 50,000 miles plus. Additionally, the oil was just changed back in July 2017. My concern is that this problem had to have been identified by BMW and that there should have been some type of "Recall" done to fix this problem. Instead, what I discovered is exactly what others have reported within this forum (that an "extended warranty" has been issued for the Oil Pump Chain Drive" up to 70,000 miles). Great, however, once the issue occurs, it destroying the entire engine, and more importantly, potentially putting lives in danger if its occurs while driving.

After a few days, I received a call back from BMW of North America offering to assist with payment from $1,000 to $3,000, and ask if this was acceptable. "Not at all," was my response. I argued that I want answers why this issue was taking more seriously, and not reported to the public (instead quietly institute this silent 70,000 mile warranty). Additionally, I'm looking for what they are going to do to cover the cost of a new engine and demanded that they touch basis with the Service Advisor at the dealership to fully comprehend the extent of the problem. In the interim, my intent is to sit down with a lawyer to discuss a lawsuit if not a Class Action lawsuit to extend and assist others who have been affected by issue. More to follow as I'm waiting a further update from BMW of North America as to what they plan to do to support this engine failure....
My local foreman said the ELW covers engine failure too if the failure is diagnosed to be timing chain problem.

So did the car throw any check-engine-light?
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  #56  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:19 AM
apdavisiii apdavisiii is offline
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Namelessman,

Thanks for the information. My daughter indicated that just before the vehicle locked up, several lights came on simultaneously without warning (but nothing prior to the actual incident)....
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  #57  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:33 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apdavisiii View Post
Namelessman,

Thanks for the information. My daughter indicated that just before the vehicle locked up, several lights came on simultaneously without warning (but nothing prior to the actual incident)....
Yes my guess is CEL was triggered, and ECU should have log data for that. Do follow up with foreman and service director, this probably should be 100% covered by ELW.

What is mileage on the car? Has there been any high pitch whine noise from engine?

BMWNA should extend this ELW to 10 years and 120k miles!!!

Last edited by namelessman; 11-02-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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  #58  
Old 11-03-2017, 04:30 PM
wc2222 wc2222 is offline
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apdavisiii,

I agree with you that we should unite together to get this to the public and seek help to prevent any future accidents or mishaps from happening, let's sync up offline.

acoste and namelessman,

First, thank you both for your expert advice again! It looks like this issue is getting bigger as more and more people hitting this defects covered under the extended warranty instead of a security/safety recall!!!

Second, after contacting BMW NA they are willing to replace my engine and affected parts after diagnosis of the slipping timing chain(root cause is due to an old fuel injector leaking fuel which caused the oil to be diluted and eventually the timing chain slipped), however, I was informed that we will have no warranty at all for the new engine and parts but what's left with the extended warranty because I did not pay for the repair, hence the warranty for the new parts will not be honored. I am not quite sure if this is common for everyone, as what if I drive the car out of the dealership and it breaks due to the newly installed parts went bad in 3 months? Am I supposed to be on my own? If this defect impacts any life, the cost is way more than the price of replacing a new engine, parts and a new warranty!

Last but not the least, thanks again for the bimmerfest forum! Crowdsourcing and collective knowledge help protect BMW fans and drivers!

Thanks,
SK
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  #59  
Old 11-03-2017, 06:09 PM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wc2222 View Post
apdavisiii,

I agree with you that we should unite together to get this to the public and seek help to prevent any future accidents or mishaps from happening, let's sync up offline.

acoste and namelessman,

First, thank you both for your expert advice again! It looks like this issue is getting bigger as more and more people hitting this defects covered under the extended warranty instead of a security/safety recall!!!

Second, after contacting BMW NA they are willing to replace my engine and affected parts after diagnosis of the slipping timing chain(root cause is due to an old fuel injector leaking fuel which caused the oil to be diluted and eventually the timing chain slipped), however, I was informed that we will have no warranty at all for the new engine and parts but what's left with the extended warranty because I did not pay for the repair, hence the warranty for the new parts will not be honored. I am not quite sure if this is common for everyone, as what if I drive the car out of the dealership and it breaks due to the newly installed parts went bad in 3 months? Am I supposed to be on my own? If this defect impacts any life, the cost is way more than the price of replacing a new engine, parts and a new warranty!

Last but not the least, thanks again for the bimmerfest forum! Crowdsourcing and collective knowledge help protect BMW fans and drivers!

Thanks,
SK
Your description is correct, namely, the replacement part + labor is covered till the end of the warranty that pays for the repair.

The key point is, which warranty covers this repair? 7-yr/70k-mile timing chain ELW or 15-yr/150k-mile SULEV emission parts warranty?

Last edited by namelessman; 11-03-2017 at 11:43 PM.
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  #60  
Old 10-28-2018, 06:11 AM
Pravesh Pravesh is offline
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Need some advise - had exactly the same problem. Drivetrain warning light lit up and then the low oil pressure light. However 3 years ago BMW replaced my engine at 64000 km . I am currently doing 181000 km . The BMW is out of motorplan. Is there any recourse against BMW . There has been no previous warnings about the low engine oil . First diagnostic done yesterday and they indicated that the oil pump has seized. They require R 20,000 to open up and verify the fault. Please advise or guide me .
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  #61  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:32 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by Pravesh View Post
Need some advise - had exactly the same problem. Drivetrain warning light lit up and then the low oil pressure light. However 3 years ago BMW replaced my engine at 64000 km . I am currently doing 181000 km . The BMW is out of motorplan. Is there any recourse against BMW . There has been no previous warnings about the low engine oil . First diagnostic done yesterday and they indicated that the oil pump has seized. They require R 20,000 to open up and verify the fault. Please advise or guide me .
That is bad news, low oil price usually means the oil pump is faulty.

How often is the oil changed? A symptom of TC failure is low oil pressure, as the shattered plastic guard rails got into the oil pan and caused damage to oil pump.
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  #62  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:53 AM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
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This happened to my sons early 2012 and BMW dealer offered me 20% on a new engine; so my out of pocket is 8K. Note, I am way over the extended warranty, 110K miles. Their reasoning is that a "above average size piece of the guide" came off and is now somewhere in the engine or maybe e in several places. So it is teardown or replace. I am looking at some resources to swap the engine with a lower mileage later model, but am not sure of when the items like timing chain, turbo line, etc were broken into production. i.e., if I find a 2015 build engine, does it have all the updates? What ECU changes were made, etc.
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  #63  
Old 08-08-2019, 09:10 AM
namelessman namelessman is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleswk View Post
This happened to my sons early 2012 and BMW dealer offered me 20% on a new engine; so my out of pocket is 8K. Note, I am way over the extended warranty, 110K miles. Their reasoning is that a "above average size piece of the guide" came off and is now somewhere in the engine or maybe e in several places. So it is teardown or replace. I am looking at some resources to swap the engine with a lower mileage later model, but am not sure of when the items like timing chain, turbo line, etc were broken into production. i.e., if I find a 2015 build engine, does it have all the updates? What ECU changes were made, etc.
Is $8k from bmw dealer for a new engine? If so it is not that bad. Trusted indies around here charge $2k-$3k just for timing chain + oil chain + rails + oil pump, swapping a used [email protected] is around $6k to $8k.

The BMW 7-year/70000-mile TC ELW ends with 2/2015 production, but there is no guarantee the 3/2015 and beyond units are redesigned or not(some PN# do change). There should be no ECU changes but it is hard to say.

Has this 2012 exhibited any loud whine and/or throw any CEL, e.g. camshaft sensor errors?
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  #64  
Old 08-08-2019, 12:02 PM
lyleswk lyleswk is offline
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There was no loud whine or any of that prior to the incident. It simply died on the side of the road and would not restart. Found bits of the chain guide in the oil when it was drained, but not all the pieces.

I agree 8K is not bad for a new engine, but my son wants to trade in on another car. So, I'm looking at a used engine. I have a friend who has the ability to do the work with my assistance which is why I am trying to figure out some of the details.
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