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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #51  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:45 AM
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2010xdrive35d 2010xdrive35d is online now
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
did something change in the motor to make it not work with LL04?
Haha! You know better than that ard, that's the way they engineered it.
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  #52  
Old 08-29-2019, 11:28 AM
jhh925 jhh925 is offline
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I'm gonna try to upload the whole PDF here or in another post. I assume that Service Bulletin applies to the US market, and if you look up that part number on RealOEM, it suggests that it's the "National-market version for NAFTA."

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. But if you're a DIY'er who's looking to the manufacturer's info to maintain your vehicle, well, there's the BMW service bulletin.

In terms of single vs twin-turbo models of the motor, the service bulletin doesn't make that distinction.

As to what changed, I have no idea. But if you go to the dealership to buy oil, give them your VIN for a 2012 through 2015 X5 equipped with an M57, they'll hand you LL-12FE oil.

The idea that they changed the oil spec in order to meet CAFE standards is odd (if I'm understanding the comment above correctly - I tried to go through that linked thread, but decided not to go all the way down the rabbit hole). My understanding is that the LL-12FE was a new spec as of the date of that Service Bulletin (May 2017). CAFE standards apply to the fleet as made (sold?) in a given MY. I'd be pretty surprised if a manufacturer could retroactively change their actual CAFE compliance numbers after the year of manufacture.
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  #53  
Old 08-29-2019, 11:29 AM
jhh925 jhh925 is offline
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Uploaded Suervice Bulletin

The May 2017 Operating Fluids Service Bulletin should be attached here.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Operating Fluids - May 2017.pdf (177.7 KB, 22 views)
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  #54  
Old 08-29-2019, 01:25 PM
TroubledGnome TroubledGnome is online now
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Originally Posted by jhh925 View Post

As to what changed, I have no idea. But if you go to the dealership to buy oil, give them your VIN for a 2012 through 2015 X5 equipped with an M57, they'll hand you LL-12FE oil.
and if you look on the back of that bottle bottle that they hand you it will state that it is not for use on engines with more than one turbo charger.
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  #55  
Old 08-29-2019, 02:07 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by jhh925 View Post
I'm gonna try to upload the whole PDF here or in another post. I assume that Service Bulletin applies to the US market, and if you look up that part number on RealOEM, it suggests that it's the "National-market version for NAFTA."

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. But if you're a DIY'er who's looking to the manufacturer's info to maintain your vehicle, well, there's the BMW service bulletin.
I couldnt care less about what BMW says about oils.

They cannot be trusted, parsing their missives on oil is futile
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  #56  
Old 08-29-2019, 05:03 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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CAFE standard comment . . . I agree I don't think anything can be done retroactively . . . I "think" the comment I read meant this (my speculation!) - LL-12FE does it for the "current" engines, and it may have a positive impact on "current" fleet . . . BMW engineers "may" have looked at previous engines and determined it is "good enough" for those older engines like our M57 . . . after all, keeping fewer different oils (fewer SKUs) at a dealer is a good thing - both cheaper and techs less likely to make a mistake.

That said, I agree with ard . . . trying to figure out the reasoning behind BMW engineers thought process is futile . . . we will never know.

In that link I posted earlier, edycol explains his reasoning for why he thinks LL-04 is a better choice. I am not an expert in these matters, but his reasoning seemed logical and believable. I coupled that with my own experience . . . 150,000+ miles and zero oil consumption.

Add to that, the BMW's comment - "Lifetime fluid" with no qualifier . . . at the very least they should put a footnote and define what BMW means by "lifetime". In short, for folks like me, planning to keep the car for 200,000 miles, I have to use common sense and judgment.

It may be true the benefit of using LL-04 over LL-12FE (or vice versa) is minuscule . . . I just don't want to be the guinea pig . . . sticking with what has been my experience.

It is also possible, LL-12FE reaches operating temp quicker and there is some benefit to that . . . as I said, I just drive slower for the initial few miles . . . have been doing that for decades, over multiple cars . . . just my style . . . so this benefit, assuming it exists, is irrelevant to me.

Finally, using an oil that is also approved oil for MB and VW/Audi makes me feel better . . .
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  #57  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:35 PM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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Interesting. Just checked dip stick before towing tomorrow. I changed the oil ca. 3000 miles ago switching from Mobil1 to Vavoline MST 5W-40. For the first time I noticed oil consumption. Half of the dip stick between min and max disappeared. I did not notice any leaks, etc.

This 3000 miles included some heavy towing to Yosemite, Shaver Lake (up to 11% grade). Maybe this is the explanation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
(...)
I now have over 150,000 miles on the odometer . . . zero oil consumption, no topping off between oil changes.
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  #58  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:54 AM
Milliwatt Rob Milliwatt Rob is offline
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Back to the original topic of how frequently the oil is changed.

On my M57 diesel, if the vehicle is in the shop for some other service, and there is more than 5000 miles on the oil, I will have it changed as a matter of convenience. Also, I do not want to have to do an oil change in the middle of a multiple day road trip.

On average, this results in me going about 7500 miles between changes.
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  #59  
Old 09-02-2019, 10:27 AM
n1das n1das is offline
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At only 225k miles on my 2012 X5 35d, I will continue to do all oil changes at 11k miles by the book.


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  #60  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:35 PM
robnitro robnitro is offline
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If your commute was short trips stop and go city driving, 5000 miles is correct, based on fuel consumption.
Highway, 11k is easy for the oil.
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  #61  
Old 09-02-2019, 09:41 PM
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Since I haven't owned it long enough to comment I'll just say this... I noticed the dealer where I purchased it from set the oil mileage @ 6k. Not sure what their measure is. I'm guessing it's the combined stop and go, and highway driving that you will probably run into in Houston commutes. Where I'm at... small area and the 35d doesn't get many highway runs. My wife is the main driver... back and forth to work less than a mile each day. I plan on sticking with the 6k unless I'm convinced otherwise.
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  #62  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:40 PM
Furbelows Furbelows is offline
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You can change between 5K to 8K Miles.
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  #63  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:02 AM
Gary214 Gary214 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnitro View Post
If your commute was short trips stop and go city driving, 5000 miles is correct, based on fuel consumption.
Highway, 11k is easy for the oil.
+1

Stop start traffic kills the engine. Oil is cheap.
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  #64  
Old 09-03-2019, 05:16 AM
Milliwatt Rob Milliwatt Rob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010xdrive35d View Post
Since I haven't owned it long enough to comment I'll just say this... I noticed the dealer where I purchased it from set the oil mileage @ 6k. Not sure what their measure is. I'm guessing it's the combined stop and go, and highway driving that you will probably run into in Houston commutes. Where I'm at... small area and the 35d doesn't get many highway runs. My wife is the main driver... back and forth to work less than a mile each day. I plan on sticking with the 6k unless I'm convinced otherwise.
You better get that car out on some longer, harder runs so its DPF can regenerate.
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  #65  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Milliwatt Rob View Post
You better get that car out on some longer, harder runs so its DPF can regenerate.
For sure! On average every 3 weeks we make a run, all highway, to family that live 2 hours away, and we come back same day.

Recently when I got my new scan tool I was playing around in the menu and noticed it had just did a regen a little over 200km ago. So that wouldn've meant it did it on the way there.

Next is to monitor temp and see how long it takes to get there. Thinking my fuel economy could be better than it's been on those long runs.
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  #66  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:17 AM
Gary214 Gary214 is offline
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Originally Posted by 2010xdrive35d View Post
For sure! On average every 3 weeks we make a run, all highway, to family that live 2 hours away, and we come back same day.

Recently when I got my new scan tool I was playing around in the menu and noticed it had just did a regen a little over 200km ago. So that wouldn've meant it did it on the way there.

Next is to monitor temp and see how long it takes to get there. Thinking my fuel economy could be better than it's been on those long runs.
That Is nothing to keep your diesel purring.. You need to visit your family in Orlando, FL., couple of times a year .
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  #67  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:20 AM
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2010xdrive35d 2010xdrive35d is online now
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Originally Posted by Gary214 View Post
That Is nothing to keep your diesel purring.. You need to visit your family in Orlando, FL., couple of times a year .
Haha! We make a couple of trips to family in Dallas each year. Though I would like to head back to Pensecola for a little weekend trip
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  #68  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:49 PM
cluesblues cluesblues is online now
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I do a change every 10-12 thousand kilometres (6200-7500mi) on my '09 35d which is currently at 197.5k km (~123k mi) on the odometer and running like a Swiss watch. I could probably stretch a little further and still be okay, but I'm sure the temperatures we see in southern AB winters (-30C or even -40 at times) aren't doing the oil any favours so may as well do it early. I use Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 based on the recommendation of this forum and it seems to be running well and consuming a bit less DEF, though that could be in my head. I also use an Archoil fuel additive.

For anyone who lives in Southern Alberta (Calgary/Red Deer areas) and wants to save time/money on oil changes, go to Minit Lube! I know, I know, quick lube places are the devil but these guys have done great work for me. They let me watch them like a hawk, and they carry Mobil1 ESP 5W30 for a really good price. It's actually $20 cheaper than buying the oil and filter from Canadian Tire and doing it myself.
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  #69  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:29 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Originally Posted by cluesblues View Post
. . . I use Mobil1 ESP 5W-30 based on the recommendation of this forum and it seems to be running well and consuming a bit less DEF . . .
You may already know this . . . Mobil1 ESP 5w-30 has changed . . . the old one (I believe it had a green cap) is not the same as the new one (grey cap, I think) . . . edycol and others on this forum no longer recommend the new Mobil 5w30 . . . I believe it is also not LL-04 certified . . .
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  #70  
Old 09-03-2019, 04:58 PM
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2010xdrive35d 2010xdrive35d is online now
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Originally Posted by rpsx5d View Post
you may already know this . . . Mobil1 esp 5w-30 has changed . . . The old one (i believe it had a green cap) is not the same as the new one (grey cap, i think) . . . Edycol and others on this forum no longer recommend the new mobil 5w30 . . . I believe it is also not ll-04 certified . . .
+1
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  #71  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:18 AM
cluesblues cluesblues is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
You may already know this . . . Mobil1 ESP 5w-30 has changed . . . the old one (I believe it had a green cap) is not the same as the new one (grey cap, I think) . . . edycol and others on this forum no longer recommend the new Mobil 5w30 . . . I believe it is also not LL-04 certified . . .
Yeah I'm just doing some reading on that now. Pretty sure it was still the green cap last time I was in there, I'll definitely check next time I'm in if they still have that. They seemed to have a bunch and they told me I'm pretty much the only person who ever asks for it at that location lol. If it wasn't I'm sure one cycle won't hurt it too bad.

I'm wondering if it's just a paperwork/certification thing or if it's truly a different formula. What other oil would you guys recommend, the OEM BMW TPT or Pennzoil Euro-whatever-it's-called?
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  #72  
Old 09-04-2019, 04:44 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Originally Posted by cluesblues View Post
Yeah I'm just doing some reading on that now. . . . If it wasn't I'm sure one cycle won't hurt it too bad. . . . What other oil would you guys recommend, the OEM BMW TPT or Pennzoil Euro-whatever-it's-called?
Agree one cycle may not cause any trouble, at least anything that is noticeable . . . key for me, based on everything I have learned here . . . low ash . . . higher ash, leads to DPF issues down the road . . . and for folks like me, who intends to keep this vehicle for ~200,000 miles, it may make a difference . . .

Ever since the "free" BMW maintenance plan rolled off (I had the extended 100K version, bad choice!) I have been using the green cap Mobil1 ESP 5W30 . . . when the cap turned grey, I switched to Pentosin Superperformance III (has all three certifications - LL-04, MB, and VW)

Here are pictures of the old and new Mobil1 ESP - frontside . . . backside

Here is the thread edycol started that discusses this issue.

Here is another thread that is also related to this issue.
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  #73  
Old 09-10-2019, 05:18 AM
Danno123 Danno123 is offline
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I haven't really paid much attention to oil change intervals. I've been relying upon the reminders on the screen. But last week my oil level was down to minimum and the screen said I had 3,000 miles left before the oil needed changing, so I changed it a little early because there's less used oil to deal with when the level is at the minimum. When I reset my oil change monitor I was shocked to see that the next recommended oil change is in 16,000 miles! From now on, I'm changing the oil when it has about 8,000 miles left before the recommended oil change.

BTW, with regard to oil consumption, I figure my car burned from the maximum oil level to the minimum in about 13,000 miles. Is that type of oil consumption normal?
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  #74  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:50 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Mein Auto: X5 35d, MY2011 150,000 mi
Odometer ~152,000 miles, MY 2011, June 2010 build, M57 engine.

Mine remained at full for 11,000 mile drain interval . . . I had BMW "free" service until 100,000 miles . . . BMW will not change oil until the iDrive shows 2,000 or less for engine oil change . . . that translated to about 11,000 mile drain interval.

Post BMW service, I have my Indy change the oil . . . drain interval about 8,000 miles . . . oil level continues to remain at full for the entire drain interval.

I check it both via dipstick and via the iDrive sensor.

I have never towed, and generally, my X5 sees a very light duty cycle.
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