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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 09-28-2017, 08:22 AM
jon cattletown jon cattletown is offline
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How often you folks change engine oil?

Anyone has an idea about the frequency of oil change for 2013 X5 E70? I simply don't feel comfortable to follow the BMW's recommendation of every 15K miles. If most on highway, maybe; but most in city driving in stop and go situation, must be shorter. There is even no way to check the oil condition because they do away with the oil stick now. Thanks.
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:54 AM
ard ard is offline
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7500

Been weeks since we had an oil thread. You gonna follow up with 'what kind of oil?"

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OEM is not what BMW sells


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Old 09-28-2017, 09:09 AM
smuggymba smuggymba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon cattletown View Post
Anyone has an idea about the frequency of oil change for 2013 X5 E70? I simply don't feel comfortable to follow the BMW's recommendation of every 15K miles. If most on highway, maybe; but most in city driving in stop and go situation, must be shorter. There is even no way to check the oil condition because they do away with the oil stick now. Thanks.
I do 5K miles per recommendation here (mostly local/city driving)

I use Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 (for diesel since I have a 35d); for gas, it's a diff one so check one of the threads.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:18 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon cattletown View Post
Anyone has an idea about the frequency of oil change for 2013 X5 E70? I simply don't feel comfortable to follow the BMW's recommendation of every 15K miles. If most on highway, maybe; but most in city driving in stop and go situation, must be shorter. There is even no way to check the oil condition because they do away with the oil stick now. Thanks.


5.5k on diesel.
Anything between 5 to 8k you are fine.
Numerous oil threads around here.


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Old 09-28-2017, 11:14 AM
jon cattletown jon cattletown is offline
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Thank, Ard. The manual suggests Castrol 5w-30 full synthetic oil. Is that right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
7500

Been weeks since we had an oil thread. You gonna follow up with 'what kind of oil?"

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Old 09-28-2017, 11:17 AM
jon cattletown jon cattletown is offline
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Thanks to everyone who replied, too. So the rule of thumb is between 5 and 8K miles.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:20 AM
jon cattletown jon cattletown is offline
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So yours is full synthetic oil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
I do 5K miles per recommendation here (mostly local/city driving)

I use Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 (for diesel since I have a 35d); for gas, it's a diff one so check one of the threads.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:26 AM
smyles smyles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon cattletown View Post
Thanks to everyone who replied, too. So the rule of thumb is between 5 and 8K miles.
Rule of thumb is to follow manufacturer recommendations. Everything else is just theories and beliefs.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:30 AM
ard ard is offline
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Just an ever-so-slight push, and down the oil hill it rolls......

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Alignment here: The Definitive Alignment Thread

OE is Original Equipment aka 'BMW Original Parts' aka 'What you buy at the BMW dealer with a BMW label'

OEM is Original Equipment Manufacturer... EITHER the company that made the OE part or.... A part this is identical to the OE part, but is sold by the OEM under their own label


OEM is not what BMW sells


http://www.bimmerzone.com/category/T...ricks_OEM.html

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/t-OEvsOEM
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2017, 11:55 AM
DjD-X5 DjD-X5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon cattletown View Post
Thanks to everyone who replied, too. So the rule of thumb is between 5 and 8K miles.
So you are going to define a rule of thumb after 3 hours and 3 replies to your initial question?

I'm not saying any frequency below the manufactures recommendation is bad but at some point there is diminished returns. I think it's kind of OCD to be of the mindset that the old saying 3 months or 3000 miles is a valid recommendation but it doesn't hurt anything but your wallet. When the manufacture that has to warranty the engine in their vehicles often to 100,000 miles is good with extended oil changes to a max of 15,000 miles it's probably a good bet under the right conditions it is perfectly safe on an engine.

The same manufacture also has installed computer based service intervals where driving conditions and stresses on an engine are factored and adjusted from the recommended 15,000 distance. That means like the dealerships service department, if you listen to your cars recommendations you might actually go less miles between changes, just never more.

Funny how it is, when the oil norm was 3 mo or 3k miles, spark plugs were to be changed out 12k or 12 months and today everyone accepts that 100,000 miles is more the lifespan of a spark plug. There are exceptions and BMW is one recommending 60,000 mile plug changes. My point of bringing that up is why would a manufacture take a conservative approach to plugs and a neglectful approach to oil? I don't think they would because in the end it's money out of their pockets in warranty work if something goes wrong.

I have heard lots of arguments that the avg BMW is only kept 2-3 years but they don't always run out of warranty at that point and often leases are resold CPO with extended 100k drivetrain coverage.

The bottom line is change your oil when you feel comfortable within the manufactures recommended limits.
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2017, 12:32 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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How often you folks change engine oil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon cattletown View Post
Thank, Ard. The manual suggests Castrol 5w-30 full synthetic oil. Is that right?


To cut this discussion:
1. BMW 35i, 5.0i and M REQUIRES oil that meets BMW LL-01 specification.
2. Castrol 5W30 you can get in Wal Mart etc. IS NOT appropriate oil for ANY BMW.
3. Go to local Wal Mart get Castrol 0W40 (hardly can get better then this oil) and change every 5-8k if you have gasoline engine.
4. Mobil1 5W30 ESP is probably best oil FOR DIESEL engines with SCR emission system. NOT gasoline engine BMW. Stay away from it if you drive gas powered BMW.
If this is hard to fallow the:
BMW gasoline: oil has to have BMW LL-01 on packaging.
BMW diesel: oil has to have BMW LL-04 on packaging.
Also, there is thing called Google. Quite interesting feature on internet.

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Last edited by edycol; 09-28-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:07 PM
jon cattletown jon cattletown is offline
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Thank you much for the reply, which is clear to me now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
To cut this discussion:
1. BMW 35i, 5.0i and M REQUIRES oil that meets BMW LL-01 specification.
2. Castrol 5W30 you can get in Wal Mart etc. IS NOT appropriate oil for ANY BMW.
3. Go to local Wal Mart get Castrol 0W40 (hardly can get better then this oil) and change every 5-8k if you have gasoline engine.
4. Mobil1 5W30 ESP is probably best oil FOR DIESEL engines with SCR emission system. NOT gasoline engine BMW. Stay away from it if you drive gas powered BMW.
If this is hard to fallow the:
BMW gasoline: oil has to have BMW LL-01 on packaging.
BMW diesel: oil has to have BMW LL-04 on packaging.
Also, there is thing called Google. Quite interesting feature on internet.

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  #13  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:08 PM
jon cattletown jon cattletown is offline
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Thank you, Dennis, too. Seems it is an owner's call then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DjD-X5 View Post
So you are going to define a rule of thumb after 3 hours and 3 replies to your initial question?

I'm not saying any frequency below the manufactures recommendation is bad but at some point there is diminished returns. I think it's kind of OCD to be of the mindset that the old saying 3 months or 3000 miles is a valid recommendation but it doesn't hurt anything but your wallet. When the manufacture that has to warranty the engine in their vehicles often to 100,000 miles is good with extended oil changes to a max of 15,000 miles it's probably a good bet under the right conditions it is perfectly safe on an engine.

The same manufacture also has installed computer based service intervals where driving conditions and stresses on an engine are factored and adjusted from the recommended 15,000 distance. That means like the dealerships service department, if you listen to your cars recommendations you might actually go less miles between changes, just never more.

Funny how it is, when the oil norm was 3 mo or 3k miles, spark plugs were to be changed out 12k or 12 months and today everyone accepts that 100,000 miles is more the lifespan of a spark plug. There are exceptions and BMW is one recommending 60,000 mile plug changes. My point of bringing that up is why would a manufacture take a conservative approach to plugs and a neglectful approach to oil? I don't think they would because in the end it's money out of their pockets in warranty work if something goes wrong.

I have heard lots of arguments that the avg BMW is only kept 2-3 years but they don't always run out of warranty at that point and often leases are resold CPO with extended 100k drivetrain coverage.

The bottom line is change your oil when you feel comfortable within the manufactures recommended limits.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:38 PM
DieselDonkey DieselDonkey is offline
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Every 11,000 miles here in my 2010 x35d
I go with Mahle filter, Pennzoil 550042833 Euro L Synthetic Silver 5W-30 Motor Oil and BMW diesel exhaust fluid.
158,500 miles currently
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2017, 02:22 PM
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kanar200 kanar200 is offline
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Re Mobil1 5W30 ESP - is there any chance that BMW would claim that this oil does not meet their standards / is not recommended? The reason I am asking is that I had the engine replaced under warranty. One of the first things they asked were confirmations of the oil changes. I was using "BMW oil", so questions were asked.

I know that this is not a real argument, but ecstunning shows that it does not fit 35d

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mobil1-p...xoCLFcQAvD_BwE
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:21 PM
GrayFuji GrayFuji is offline
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I change the oil at 8k miles. 2012 X5 diesel.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2017, 04:55 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
Re Mobil1 5W30 ESP - is there any chance that BMW would claim that this oil does not meet their standards / is not recommended? The reason I am asking is that I had the engine replaced under warranty. One of the first things they asked were confirmations of the oil changes. I was using "BMW oil", so questions were asked.

I know that this is not a real argument, but ecstunning shows that it does not fit 35d

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-mobil1-p...xoCLFcQAvD_BwE


Mobil1 5W30 ESP is BMW LL-04 approved.
That question you got shows ignorance and bad motives on their part.
And yes, ECStuning has very bad catalog processing.
This is what matters (click under 5W30):
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-esp


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Last edited by edycol; 09-28-2017 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:36 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Was never persuaded by the 5,000-mile drain interval . . . 7,500/8,000 miles IMO seems more reasonable . . . since the first 100,000 miles were done at ~10,000-mile drain interval (had the extended maintenance plan, mistake!), I am sticking with it.

I never go beyond 11,000 miles, sometimes around 9,000+ miles - depends on my travel schedule etc.

Attached is a recent oil report.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:39 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
Was never persuaded by the 5,000-mile drain interval . . . 7,500/8,000 miles IMO seems more reasonable . . . since the first 100,000 miles were done at ~10,000-mile drain interval (had the extended maintenance plan, mistake!), I am sticking with it.



I never go beyond 11,000 miles, sometimes around 9,000+ miles - depends on my travel schedule etc.



Attached is a recent oil report.


I would lower it to 8k at least. TBN of 1.6 is not good cushion IMO. What is your driving pattern and where you fill up diesel (brand)?


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Old 09-29-2017, 02:05 PM
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Thanks, will switch to Mobile then. I guess I won't see any difference, but why not?
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:25 PM
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My rule of thumb is is 1000 miles per quart of oil in oil sump. +1000 mi for fully synthetic or +500 mi for semi-synthetic.

Since most BMW takes 6.5 qt of oil depending type of oil say around 6500-7500 miles sounds about right.
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:36 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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60/40 city/hwy . . . very lightly loaded, most of the time driver only, other times three occupants including driver, no towing.

Diesel - Chevron until about 20,000 miles ago . . . then switched to Shell based on this post from you. Occasionally when I head to the City via the Bay Bridge, I swing by Propel Fuels and pick up some of their HPR . . . 70+ cetane renewable diesel.

While under BMW maintenance plan I had to go with iDrive triggered drain intervals (or pay for it myself) and BMW supplied engine oil . . . since then, based on your suggestion, I have switched over to Mobil 1 ESP LL-04.

Typically, for time reasons, I combine maintenance items and as a result, drain intervals sometimes extend to 10,000+ miles but never over 11,000 miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
I would lower it to 8k at least. TBN of 1.6 is not good cushion IMO. What is your driving pattern and where you fill up diesel (brand)?
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:08 PM
n1das n1das is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyles View Post
Rule of thumb is to follow manufacturer recommendations. Everything else is just theories and beliefs.
THIS!! What smyles said. Old school is still alive and well. There is no need to second guess the engineers that designed the engine and the rest of the car.

My 2012 X5 35d: Oil changed every 11k miles by the book. The car only has 169k miles on it and going strong.

My 2014 535d: Oil changed every 10k miles by the book. The car only has 95k miles and going strong.

Oil consumption is negligible in both cars and no oil needs to be added between changes. I check the oil level regularly, about every 1k miles on the dipstick in addition to the electronic readout. Fortunately the diesels still have a traditional dipstick that can be checked.

I have absolutely no worries about going the full recommended oil change interval. The interval is already conservative to begin with. Oil analysis data has shown changing the oil more frequently than recommended does not protect the engine any better and actually causes more wear due to the increased number of detergent cycles the engine sees. It shows up in the UOA data as elevated ppm counts of wear metals in the oil. Most owners probably won't see any difference that shorter OCIs might make because they will never keep the car long enough to find out. Bottom line is you CAN do more harm than good over the long term through too frequent oil changes.

I'm already used to these kinds of OCIs from owning and driving only diesel cars since 2002 and logging a combined total of more than 800k miles on them and I'm the only driver of my cars. I drive around 1k miles per week so longevity of my cars is important to me among other things. When I sold my 2002 VW Golf TDI (diesel) in 2010 to a co-worker whose son needed a car for college, the car only had 361k miles on it and was still going strong. The car also had many performance mods over the last 200k miles of my ownership. That car is still on the road today in the hands of the second owner with more than 400k miles on it. I could have kept the car much longer but I was getting the itch for a new car after 8 years. The old Golf TDI didn't owe me anything. All oil changes were done every 10k miles by the book. The required oil is synthetic and also BMW LL04 rated so I'm already familiar with the oil that my BMWs need.

There is absolutely no need for old school when it comes to oil change intervals.

Good luck.


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Why DIESEL is better: (from wxmanCCM)
PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
General - https://sites.google.com/view/emissions-general/home

Last edited by n1das; 09-29-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:50 PM
n1das n1das is offline
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Exclamation

For owners that drive low miles per year, they will bump up against the recommended time interval long before reaching the recommended mileage interval. They should just go ahead and change the oil at the recommended time interval, regardless of miles on the oil. Unlike my logging 1k miles/week, the accumulated miles will be low enough for any extra wear from too frequent oil changes to be a non-issue. Even if a low mileage per year driver keeps their car for 10-15 years the miles are still too low for any extra wear from more frequent oil changes to show up as premature wear. In my particular situation, I log the miles rapidly enough that I reach the recommended mileage interval long before the time interval.

If you drive very little miles per year, follow the recommended time interval. If you drive a lot and drive road warrior miles like I do, follow the recommended mileage interval. If you want to know what the most appropriate oil change interval should be for your car and your particular driving habits, have laboratory oil analysis done on samples of your oil. Then you'll know what's going on inside your engine and can adjust the oil change interval if necessary.

Good luck.
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Why DIESEL is better: (from wxmanCCM)
PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
General - https://sites.google.com/view/emissions-general/home

Last edited by n1das; 09-29-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:40 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanar200 View Post
Thanks, will switch to Mobile then. I guess I won't see any difference, but why not?


Mobil1 5W30 ESP has lowest sulfated ash and phosphorus levels of any BMW LL-04, MB 229.51, VW504.00/507.00 oils.
Also, this oil has lowest NOACK (evaporation loss) of ant 5W30 oil that I know of (5.6%). That means that due to low NOACK you will have less CBU on valves as well as less sulfated ash and phosphorus in DPF.



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