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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #26  
Old 09-29-2017, 07:14 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
60/40 city/hwy . . . very lightly loaded, most of the time driver only, other times three occupants including driver, no towing.



Diesel - Chevron until about 20,000 miles ago . . . then switched to Shell based on this post from you. Occasionally when I head to the City via the Bay Bridge, I swing by Propel Fuels and pick up some of their HPR . . . 70+ cetane renewable diesel.



While under BMW maintenance plan I had to go with iDrive triggered drain intervals (or pay for it myself) and BMW supplied engine oil . . . since then, based on your suggestion, I have switched over to Mobil 1 ESP LL-04.



Typically, for time reasons, I combine maintenance items and as a result, drain intervals sometimes extend to 10,000+ miles but never over 11,000 miles.




I would make sure not to exceed 10k at max. M1 ESP does start with low TBN due to low sulfated ash and phosphorus. But then, DPF is not getting polluted as with other oils.


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  #27  
Old 09-30-2017, 05:55 AM
rrubberbandman rrubberbandman is offline
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I do 5k with this https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-E...-5-QT/35931146
and this http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-BMW-Oil-Fi...-/361079729980

Last edited by rrubberbandman; 09-30-2017 at 05:57 AM.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2017, 09:07 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Presumably, you don't have a diesel engine . . . this one is certified as a BMW LL-01 . . . BMW diesels require LL-04

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  #29  
Old 09-30-2017, 09:09 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Yes, that is the plan going forward . . . I just need to plan these maintenance items a bit better and hit 8,500-10,000 mile drain interval.

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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
I would make sure not to exceed 10k at max. M1 ESP does start with low TBN due to low sulfated ash and phosphorus. But then, DPF is not getting polluted as with other oils.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2017, 10:43 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Castrol 0W40 IMO is now probably best off the shelf oil available for BMW gasoline engines.


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  #31  
Old 09-30-2017, 11:52 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by n1das View Post
For owners that drive low miles per year, they will bump up against the recommended time interval long before reaching the recommended mileage interval. They should just go ahead and change the oil at the recommended time interval, regardless of miles on the oil. Unlike my logging 1k miles/week, the accumulated miles will be low enough for any extra wear from too frequent oil changes to be a non-issue. Even if a low mileage per year driver keeps their car for 10-15 years the miles are still too low for any extra wear from more frequent oil changes to show up as premature wear. In my particular situation, I log the miles rapidly enough that I reach the recommended mileage interval long before the time interval.

If you drive very little miles per year, follow the recommended time interval. If you drive a lot and drive road warrior miles like I do, follow the recommended mileage interval. If you want to know what the most appropriate oil change interval should be for your car and your particular driving habits, have laboratory oil analysis done on samples of your oil. Then you'll know what's going on inside your engine and can adjust the oil change interval if necessary.

Good luck.


Your driving regime is extremely easy on oil. Problem comes from city driving, grocery getting usage.
Logging 1k per week means HWY driving and that is easy on oil since you are driving long enough after start to burn excessive diesel that gets in during start, moisture etc.


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  #32  
Old 09-30-2017, 03:57 PM
jwmurrayjr jwmurrayjr is offline
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Originally Posted by n1das View Post
THIS!! What smyles said. Old school is still alive and well. There is no need to second guess the engineers that designed the engine and the rest of the car.

My 2012 X5 35d: Oil changed every 11k miles by the book. The car only has 169k miles on it and going strong.

My 2014 535d: Oil changed every 10k miles by the book. The car only has 95k miles and going strong.

Oil consumption is negligible in both cars and no oil needs to be added between changes. I check the oil level regularly, about every 1k miles on the dipstick in addition to the electronic readout. Fortunately the diesels still have a traditional dipstick that can be checked.

I have absolutely no worries about going the full recommended oil change interval. The interval is already conservative to begin with. Oil analysis data has shown changing the oil more frequently than recommended does not protect the engine any better and actually causes more wear due to the increased number of detergent cycles the engine sees. It shows up in the UOA data as elevated ppm counts of wear metals in the oil. Most owners probably won't see any difference that shorter OCIs might make because they will never keep the car long enough to find out. Bottom line is you CAN do more harm than good over the long term through too frequent oil changes.

I'm already used to these kinds of OCIs from owning and driving only diesel cars since 2002 and logging a combined total of more than 800k miles on them and I'm the only driver of my cars. I drive around 1k miles per week so longevity of my cars is important to me among other things. When I sold my 2002 VW Golf TDI (diesel) in 2010 to a co-worker whose son needed a car for college, the car only had 361k miles on it and was still going strong. The car also had many performance mods over the last 200k miles of my ownership. That car is still on the road today in the hands of the second owner with more than 400k miles on it. I could have kept the car much longer but I was getting the itch for a new car after 8 years. The old Golf TDI didn't owe me anything. All oil changes were done every 10k miles by the book. The required oil is synthetic and also BMW LL04 rated so I'm already familiar with the oil that my BMWs need.

There is absolutely no need for old school when it comes to oil change intervals.

Good luck.


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Following the manufacturer's recommendations? How tedious is that? Folks follow the manufacturer's specs on everything but oil changes. Where it really matters. Strike anyone as a bit odd?


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  #33  
Old 09-30-2017, 10:11 PM
DjD-X5 DjD-X5 is offline
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Originally Posted by jwmurrayjr View Post
Following the manufacturer's recommendations? How tedious is that? Folks follow the manufacturer's specs on everything but oil changes. Where it really matters. Strike anyone as a bit odd?


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You say that like everyone is exceeding the manufactures recommended or that shorter durations between changes is harmful.
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  #34  
Old 09-30-2017, 10:32 PM
jwmurrayjr jwmurrayjr is offline
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Originally Posted by DjD-X5 View Post
You say that like everyone is exceeding the manufactures recommended or that shorter durations between changes is harmful.
I don't think that I said that. Did I?

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  #35  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:58 AM
DjD-X5 DjD-X5 is offline
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I don't think that I said that. Did I?

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"Folks follow the manufacturer's specs on everything but oil changes. Where it really matters."

Sure sounds like it...
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  #36  
Old 10-01-2017, 07:08 AM
jwmurrayjr jwmurrayjr is offline
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Originally Posted by DjD-X5 View Post
"Folks follow the manufacturer's specs on everything but oil changes. Where it really matters."

Sure sounds like it...
Well, I didn't mean to imply that.

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  #37  
Old 10-01-2017, 03:39 PM
Michael47 Michael47 is offline
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I change my oil when the "service required" alert comes up. This has varied depending on whether I was towing much or driving a lot of city miles, or been mostly on the open highway. Because I trusted the engineers who designed this vehicle to know when oil needed replacement, and they put that sensor or sensors into the system, I follow their recommendation. So I can't tell you a specific interval.
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  #38  
Old 10-01-2017, 07:48 PM
DjD-X5 DjD-X5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael47 View Post
I change my oil when the "service required" alert comes up. This has varied depending on whether I was towing much or driving a lot of city miles, or been mostly on the open highway. Because I trusted the engineers who designed this vehicle to know when oil needed replacement, and they put that sensor or sensors into the system, I follow their recommendation. So I can't tell you a specific interval.
Any chance you have the oil change receipts with the mileage on them?
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  #39  
Old 10-01-2017, 09:18 PM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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I like one year or 7,500 miles in the gasser's, 6,500 on the diesel.

Might seem too frequent for some, but here is what the inside of the engine on my 15 year old E46 looked like earlier this year when I did the valve cover gasket and VANOS seals upgrade:


Here is what they look like on all the DIY videos


I'm going to stick with old school style schedule for the cars I plan on keeping



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  #40  
Old 10-01-2017, 10:05 PM
edycol edycol is offline
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I do 5-5.5k on my diesel, and 5k or one year on wife's Tiguan.
Engines are expensive, oil is cheap.
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  #41  
Old 10-02-2017, 04:12 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Engines are expensive, while advice is cheap. Experience is a good teacher, a bad experience is a better teacher. Education is invaluable.

All these cost/benefit niggles were considered by engineers before the recommendation (S) were released to the public. The marginal decisions are the most difficult and where upper management most likely steps in it.
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  #42  
Old 10-02-2017, 05:16 AM
Milliwatt Rob Milliwatt Rob is offline
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I think what Doug is saying is, the engineers may have an opinion as to the optimum oil change interval, but other factors, such as how many oil change expenses will BMW have to absorb under "free maintenance" plans get added by upper management, who also listen to the bean counters.

I think there is no answer for universal application. It all depends on how the vehicle is driven, and, as a secondary factor, the brand and type of oil (assuming the oil you are using meets the minimum BMW approvals). Oil analysis would shed a lot of light.

For my kind of driving, which is almost no stop and go, mostly rural and highway, and no towing, I am willing to go the 10K miles on my 35d. I think the change from 500 ppm low sulfur fuel to ulsd 15 ppm fuel helped to substantially reduce acids in the crankcase. However, the oil blenders seem to have responded by reducing the Total Base Number (TBN) of their fresh oil, as there is now less acid to neutralize.
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  #43  
Old 10-02-2017, 06:38 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by Milliwatt Rob View Post
I think what Doug is saying is, the engineers may have an opinion as to the optimum oil change interval, but other factors, such as how many oil change expenses will BMW have to absorb under "free maintenance" plans get added by upper management, who also listen to the bean counters.

I think there is no answer for universal application. It all depends on how the vehicle is driven, and, as a secondary factor, the brand and type of oil (assuming the oil you are using meets the minimum BMW approvals). Oil analysis would shed a lot of light.

For my kind of driving, which is almost no stop and go, mostly rural and highway, and no towing, I am willing to go the 10K miles on my 35d. I think the change from 500 ppm low sulfur fuel to ulsd 15 ppm fuel helped to substantially reduce acids in the crankcase. However, the oil blenders seem to have responded by reducing the Total Base Number (TBN) of their fresh oil, as there is now less acid to neutralize.


Oil for diesel has low TBN due to DPF requirement. Move to ULSD was necessary because you couldn’t have low TBN oils in order to preserve DPF and high sulfur diesel. Those two things are incompatible.
Still, driving regime of average BMW in the US is different then in Europe. BMW already change OCI from 15k to 10k. They are still trying to address issues of grocery getting regime driving of most BMW owners by using lighter oils compare to EU. When buying BMW or any other Euro car, one has to consider that those cars are primarily made for European driving regime.


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  #44  
Old 08-29-2019, 07:17 AM
jhh925 jhh925 is offline
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M57 should be using LL-12FE

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've been coming here a bunch for info to maintain my 2012 X5 35d.

Note that the BMW mandated oil for the M57 engine is not LL-04, it's LL-12FE. See the BMW "Operating Fluids" Technical Service Bulletin dated May 2017. Here's the relevant screenshot:



I downloaded that PDF some time ago, so I don't have a link, but I could swear that I found it here on this forum somewhere.
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  #45  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:44 AM
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2010xdrive35d 2010xdrive35d is online now
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Hmmmm.... I'm drawn to the part where it says "Model Year 2016 and 2017" and in the engines listed at the top "All engines with the" sentence it doesn't have the M57 engine?

Oh and thanks for posting some helpful info... That's what it's all about!
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  #46  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:46 AM
jhh925 jhh925 is offline
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I think your eye is going too far up? Look near the bottom of the prior page - it says "Model year 2012 to 2015 Gasoline and Diesel engine Oil Quick Reference Chart"
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  #47  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:58 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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. . . Note that the BMW mandated oil for the M57 engine is not LL-04, it's LL-12FE. See the BMW "Operating Fluids" Technical Service Bulletin dated May 2017 . . .
My understanding is that it is true for the single turbo engines, not for our M57 twin turbo.

Second, as I understand it, LL-12FE is an attempt to improve CAFE performance, etc . . . not necessarily the best for the engine . . . engineers design/spec things to meet the minimum requirements, not exceed it . . . anything more, from their perspective, is "money left on the table". As owners, particulary owners like myself whose ownership horizon is ~200K, a few extra dollars, or driving the car slow for the first couple of miles as the engine warms up, etc is not a big deal.

Here is edycol's response on a different thread . . . the whole thread goes back and forth about what "smart people" here knows versus BMW engineers . . . what I can say is . . . once my extended maintenance (bad idea!) ended I used Mobil1 ESP 5w30. This oil is no longer available in the U.S. . . . now I am using Pentosin Pento Super Performance III 5w30 . . . which, in addition to BMW LL-04 approval, is also Mercedes Benz and VW/Audi compliant.

Under BMW maintenance contract, drain interval was ~11,000 miles, now I do it around 8/9,000 miles . . . I know it is longer than what some folks here suggest . . .

I now have over 150,000 miles on the odometer . . . zero oil consumption, no topping off between oil changes.
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  #48  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:04 AM
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2010xdrive35d 2010xdrive35d is online now
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I think your eye is going too far up? Look near the bottom of the prior page - it says "Model year 2012 to 2015 Gasoline and Diesel engine Oil Quick Reference Chart"
Gotcha! So Diesels such as my 2010 should still use LL-04 based on that information.
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  #49  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:13 AM
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Gotcha! So Diesels such as my 2010 should still use LL-04 based on that information.
Correct
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  #50  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:17 AM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by jhh925 View Post
Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've been coming here a bunch for info to maintain my 2012 X5 35d.

Note that the BMW mandated oil for the M57 engine is not LL-04, it's LL-12FE. See the BMW "Operating Fluids" Technical Service Bulletin dated May 2017. Here's the relevant screenshot:



I downloaded that PDF some time ago, so I don't have a link, but I could swear that I found it here on this forum somewhere.
what market (ie area of the world) does this document apply to?

Also, if a car is specd for ll04 when built..then 7 years later BMW pushes an update, did something change in the motor to make it not work with LL04?
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