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The next generation 5 Series, chassis code G30, arrives at dealers in February 2017. Looking like a scaled down 7 Series and riding on the CLAR platform, the new 5 Series will have a focus on lightweight and sporty performance. Engines options will come from BMW's new B family for the 530 and 540 and a turbocharged V8 for the M550i. Read more about the 2017 5 Series

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  #51  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:28 PM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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Lane keep assist seems to help in using turn signals, it is my experience since I have LKA that touching the turn signal before making a turn stops the car steering wheel from protesting. So my new BMW rewards me when I signal; it is such a nice comfortable car.
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  #52  
Old 05-17-2018, 05:59 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Lane keep assist seems to help in using turn signals, it is my experience since I have LKA that touching the turn signal before making a turn stops the car steering wheel from protesting. So my new BMW rewards me when I signal; it is such a nice comfortable car.
Exactly. While I try to use my turn signal, and to use it properly, using the LKA does help train me.
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  #53  
Old 05-17-2018, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jc9394 View Post
Subaru drivers are worst, especially the WRX and STi drivers.


I can attest, at least in the driving like an asshole aspect. I almost always use my signals though. Gotta indicate intent, and they put it right there by the wheel anyway.
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  #54  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:29 PM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Great thread!

I am mostly crying over the extinction of the Northern Italy's drivers. My old stomping grounds, I return multiple times every year and it is getting worse and worse. There, I blame the brainless, stupid and merciless hunt of even +3 mph speeding using hidden and visible cameras that are EVERYWHERE. You know what happens when you follow the speed limits made to make safe the worst of the "driving" pool? You fall asleep. Where once there was a sacred mission in every one of them behind a steering wheel - a mission ingrained in the tradition and achieved by proper training, which is to be home in time 11 minutes after your mom or wife dropped pasta to boil to be perfectly "al dente" - now there are very, very few free thinkers who dare to challenge the iron hand of the traffic cameras. We throw hands in the air and raise hell over extinction of the precious species ... but nobody seems to be giving any thoughts about this species in extinction. Sad.

Anyway, back to turn signals and why they are so important - just as much important as Michele's flair to be at home right on time to load the pasta on the plate.

Every given weekend in this country, there are tens of thousands of people using the steering wheel of their vehicles to drive WAY past any possible sane speed limit in any of the countries on the planet - and that includes Germany. It is called amateur racing or DE/HPDE in this country. Now, if speed is killing people indiscriminately, there would be a line of at least 5 hearses waiting at the gates of any given racetrack to pick up the "unfortunate" and take them to funeral homes. Yet, it is probably even statistically safer environment to drive in than any heavily monitored public road out there. Without further ado, I think I know why that is. Speed never killed anyone, nor did sudden stopping from 150 mph to 0 in less than 0.5 seconds. No, what kills these people is unpredictability.

Every racetrack event had iron rules enforced with iron fist. You screw up, there is the gate, do not come back here. Driver's meeting at 7:45 AM, hated as it might be, is what becomes The Bible of the day and, more experienced you are, actually the more you obey it because you know why it is there. TO MAKE EVERYBODY PREDICTABLE. Once you are having a group of 30+ cars on a 2.2 miles track and each one of these drivers can be read as an open book by either the defensive line he takes (defined by The Bible) in racing event or by the hand pointer/gesture (DE/HPDE), there is no problem whatsoever to overtake a car in the corner, less than 4 inches of light between doors while doing 100+ mph.

So ... be predictable. One of the most used devices out of the racetrack to be predictable are turn signals. Massimo or Alessandro driving and jostling for a position at 7:45 PM on a tight country road were predictable. Pasta is in the pot, you know where they are going and what they are doing. Even their CARS used to have a "body language" that would tell you, in a split second, if he's gonna dive in, take the gap and split the lane on red or not. You just knew it and it was fabulous.

Unfortunately for U.S., besides all the "I, Me and Myself" crowd, there is also an underlying issue of 40 years of brainwashing that brutally messed up even the generation of people who would normally behave like not-sociopaths. 40 years of the heavily repeated "Speed kills" and "Drinking and driving kills children" made people simply deduce "I am sober and I am not speeding. I can do no wrong no matter what I do on the road" - pretty deadly assumption, that one. I wish Americans would understand and accept that having 0 degrees of freedom to express themselves freely while on the public road doesn't really mean that Damn Commies won. It simply means that it is not about You. You, just like everybody else around you are No Name cogs that need to function predictably and reliably in order for the majestic clockwork Traffic to work flawlessly.

Safe driving, everyone.
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  #55  
Old 05-17-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BeemerBil View Post
I live in the People's Democratic Republic of Illinois, and have noticed for many years that people from Michigan have no clue what a turn signal is for. Since you live in Arizona, you may have experienced immigrants from MI. My advice is to petition your state legislators to have those who fail to use their turn signals sent back.


The people of Wisconsin are the best I’ve found in the Midwest as far as driving. They’ll get out of your way when possible if you’re cooking on down to the dells. Indiana and Michigan? Yeah kiss your sweet ass goodbye.
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  #56  
Old 05-17-2018, 05:05 PM
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I hate people turn on their blinker on left turn last minute on a busy intersection.
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  #57  
Old 05-17-2018, 08:42 PM
HugH HugH is offline
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Hell, that's way better than turning it way too soon. You don't know if he's turning into a business driveway or what!
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  #58  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:30 PM
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Maybe a direction indicator for four directions should be developed to get a better predictablility.
Hmm, maybe the problem is a lot of morons out there haven't any clue were they are heading for.
So sorry, this alto wouldn't solve the problem.
Stupid suggestion.
Or it must be incorporated in a more sophisticated LKA, for sure an aftermarket obligatory system for all publicly used transports.
Ever seen bikers go through Amsterdam these days?
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  #59  
Old 05-18-2018, 02:12 AM
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Perhaps a better solution to this, and many other driving annoyances, would be to have a more stringent test procedure - both at the beginning of a drivers life and intermittently, every 5 years or so. I swear that, here in the UK, the vast majority of people shouldn't really be let loose behind the wheel. I am a Dog Behaviourist and I use an analogy that compares dog owners to car drivers. Every dog owner thinks they know it all and often resents advice. I would estimate that less than 1/2 % of all dogs I see are completely untrained. Similarly, every car driver (especially men) thinks they are a good driver but in reality how many are? 5% or less? Most don't have a clue, beyond the basics of clutch control.
As alluded to earlier in the thread, people also don't care about their impact on others. So, we ought to force them to be more responsible. If you think about it, the idea that someone passes a test aged 17 and then they are left alone for eternity, all the while reinforcing all the bad habits they collect along the way, is a trifle silly, to say the least.
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  #60  
Old 05-18-2018, 03:34 AM
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i just think it needs to be enforced. With all the tickets for parking I am shocked people arent pulled over for it. There are constantly people who cant even make it into the turn lane and yet have no signal on. Or people with no turn lane in front of you, who will turn left without a signal even waiting at the light so you either get cut off or have to swerve around them or block the person most likely going right. I really dont understand it. The irony here is how BMW drivers have this stereotype. There are just a lot of terrible drivers out there with no consideration... i mean we are car forum people so I don't think we are as unaware but in cities it is maddening. I somewhat empathize on fast hghways and freeways as some other people wont even let people merge otherwise but in regular street traffic it should be a simple ticket. In reverse if i ever see anyone signal, i always slow to let them merge as it is such a rarity to even see it. a lot of us must shock the average person with stereotypes in their heads about BMW owners

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  #61  
Old 05-18-2018, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scicc View Post
As a bicyclist, I have been in one accident and many near accidents due to drivers turning in front of me without signaling - especially turning right at traffic signals.
One post makes reference to Arizona law which only requires use "in the event any other traffic may be affected by the movement." Fortunately, in NY, signals are required regardless of the presence of other traffic. Still, they are not being used, and I agree that the tendency to use is decreasing. I have also seen cops and bus drivers fail to signal.
I recommend to you John Forester, Bicycle Transportation: A Handbook for Cycling Transportation Engineers (MIT, 1994) and more generally on bicycling, Effective Cycling (MIT, 1993).

https://www.amazon.com/Effective-Cyc.../dp/0262516942

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262560798/

John Forester is author of The Vehicular Cycling Principle, "Cyclists fare best when they act as and are treated as drivers of vehicles."

If you are properly positioned in traffic, and a cyclist is traffic, then you cannot be interfered with legally. Properly positioned for a right turn, a cyclist cannot be right-hooked.

Take your lane!
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  #62  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:42 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Originally Posted by TopGearLA View Post
i just think it needs to be enforced. With all the tickets for parking I am shocked people arent pulled over for it. There are constantly people who cant even make it into the turn lane and yet have no signal on. Or people with no turn lane in front of you, who will turn left without a signal even waiting at the light so you either get cut off or have to swerve around them or block the person most likely going right. I really dont understand it. The irony here is how BMW drivers have this stereotype. There are just a lot of terrible drivers out there with no consideration... i mean we are car forum people so I don't think we are as unaware but in cities it is maddening. I somewhat empathize on fast hghways and freeways as some other people wont even let people merge otherwise but in regular street traffic it should be a simple ticket. In reverse if i ever see anyone signal, i always slow to let them merge as it is such a rarity to even see it. a lot of us must shock the average person with stereotypes in their heads about BMW owners
Ditto. If I see someone signalling, I let them in. If they don't, and it is safe to deny them access, I don't. Tough love.
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  #63  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
I recommend to you John Forester, Bicycle Transportation: A Handbook for Cycling Transportation Engineers (MIT, 1994) and more generally on bicycling, Effective Cycling (MIT, 1993).

https://www.amazon.com/Effective-Cyc.../dp/0262516942

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262560798/

John Forester is author of The Vehicular Cycling Principle, "Cyclists fare best when they act as and are treated as drivers of vehicles."

If you are properly positioned in traffic, and a cyclist is traffic, then you cannot be interfered with legally. Properly positioned for a right turn, a cyclist cannot be right-hooked.

Take your lane!
If only bicyclists actually followed the rules of the road. They need to stop at stop signs, right turns on red, stop at red lights, signal turns, ride WITH traffic, stay off the sidewalk, etc. Want the rights of a motor vehicle? FOLLOW THE RULES drivers are expected to follow!
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  #64  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:37 AM
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Generally cyclists have all the rights and responsibilities of the motorist via the vehicle code, and not dependent on your understanding or approval.

If only motorists actually followed the rules of the road. They need to stop at stop signs, stop at red lights, signal turns (the topic of this thread), not use the wrong lane, stay off the sidewalk, etc.
I know, that's my point. I can't count how many cyclists I've almost tagged while I'm making a right on red and they come shooting past me on the inside barely slowing down to make the right. My wife was out biking and was almost hit by another cyclist when she stopped at the stop and they didn't feel the need.
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  #65  
Old 05-18-2018, 10:45 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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I know, that's my point. I can't count how many cyclists I've almost tagged while I'm making a right on red and they come shooting past me on the inside barely slowing down to make the right. My wife was out biking and was almost hit by another cyclist when she stopped at the stop and they didn't feel the need.
Definitely a problem. Whenever I see cyclists on the right as I approach a turn, I very carefully keep my eyes on them. I know that they will seriously lose if we touch so I make sure that we don't even if it means I have to wait for them to go by.

As in all cases, driving safely means keeping your eyes on everyone else and anticipating some really stupid maneuvers.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:23 AM
SteveinArizona SteveinArizona is offline
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Done in yesterday and by a BMW! I was in the left lane of a three lane road. My lane had slowed and there was room in the middle lane to move into it and to move forward. I turned on my turn signal and a BMW directly behind me turned suddently into the middle lane and I had to stop and let it by. Only did it because he saw my turn signal. The kind of driver that gives BMW drivers a bad name.

I agree with many of the comments: less speed enforcement and more enforcement of things like using turn signals.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:37 AM
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One thing I'd like to see is the directional signal indicator in the HUD. Some cars signals are not loud enough or you may be driving in a noisy environment and can't hear the directional click...Nothing worst than seeing a car with the blinker on and and instead of turning he goes straight on.
This can be done with coding at least.
I had it done on my f10.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:45 AM
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I know, that's my point. I can't count how many cyclists I've almost tagged while I'm making a right on red and they come shooting past me on the inside barely slowing down to make the right. My wife was out biking and was almost hit by another cyclist when she stopped at the stop and they didn't feel the need.
Yep, gutter-bunnies do not typically announce their intentions or stops. Gutter-bunnies are all ALMOST hit.

The cyclist almost always has the right of way, particularly on the right.

YOU need to study the vehicle code, particularly as it applies to bicyclists.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:49 AM
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This can be done with coding at least.
I had it done on my f10.
Depends on Vehicle / Instrument Cluster (Kombi). HUD Turn Signals are not possible in F2x/F3x car, nor F1x with 6WB Digital Cluster.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:23 AM
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This thread is a pretty interesting read. While I agree with most of the points, I would also like to (gently) remind everyone reading this, that EVERYONE usually thinks "its the other guy / girl who is the problem ", yet statistically that cant be the case, right?

Just food for thought...
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:20 AM
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^Statistically? Probably right, especially if you accept my estimation that only 5-10% of people are really safe drivers (and I don't mean poodlers that take no risks by driving at 5-10 miles under the speed limit wherever they go). If 90-95% of drivers are not very adept then the good drivers will more likely to be able to state "it's the other gay", whilst that dodgy 90-95% can't really be sure which one was to blame - it good equally be either!
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:24 AM
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EverDrive app

everdrive™ - safe driving

https://www.everquote.com/everdrive/

I've used this app for two years now I think.
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Eschew eristical argumentation. I am responsible for what I write, not for your understanding of it.

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Old 05-19-2018, 06:34 PM
jjrandorin jjrandorin is offline
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^Statistically? Probably right, especially if you accept my estimation that only 5-10% of people are really safe drivers (and I don't mean poodlers that take no risks by driving at 5-10 miles under the speed limit wherever they go). If 90-95% of drivers are not very adept then the good drivers will more likely to be able to state "it's the other gay", whilst that dodgy 90-95% can't really be sure which one was to blame - it good equally be either!
I actually ment something much simpler. I just ment that almost 100 percent of people driving tend to think they are better drivers than those around them, but thats impossible.. because we all cant be better drivers than everyone around us.

I am not throwing shade on anyone in this thread.. just mentioning this as food for thought.

@ doug, that app looks interesting.. thanks for sharing. I might download it and see how I do.. because I am sure that I am a better driver than everyone around me
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:32 AM
Mark K Mark K is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Huffman View Post
Yep, gutter-bunnies do not typically announce their intentions or stops. Gutter-bunnies are all ALMOST hit.

The cyclist almost always has the right of way, particularly on the right.

YOU need to study the vehicle code, particularly as it applies to bicyclists.
Ugh ... that sounds a little bit too much like "I am sober and I am not breaking any laws, so I fully expect The Universe to re-arrange itself around me." You probably didn't want to say that, but that is how it comes across.

Frankly, I have zero beef with cyclists in U.S. - don't remember when I last saw one. However, I have a huge beef with cyclists in Europe, specifically in Italy and Croatia. Those are certified A-holes with capital "A".

1. You are a middle-aged punk, you are not running Tour De France no matter how much money you spent on a bike and apparel you are wearing - leave peloton to racing and get in a single line on the public road.

2. Pick 3rd and 4th priority roads for cycling. Do not race each other uphill on a 18 feet wide road with tight corners (think Rally of Monte Carlo for scenery) where 18 wheelers and buses are allowed, it being a first priority secondary road. Frankly, I have NO idea how come they didn't ban them from that stretch of the road. Or ban buses and trucks and leave cyclists - but all of them at the same time is just a disaster waiting to happen.

You see, sometimes I wish they would understand "Just because you can, it doesn't mean that you should or that you have to". That's all.

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:55 AM
Haverstock Haverstock is offline
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However, I have a huge beef with cyclists in Europe, specifically in Italy and Croatia. Those are certified A-holes with capital "A".

1. You are a middle-aged punk, you are not running Tour De France no matter how much money you spent on a bike and apparel you are wearing - leave peloton to racing and get in a single line on the public road.

2. Pick 3rd and 4th priority roads for cycling. Do not race each other uphill on a 18 feet wide road with tight corners (think Rally of Monte Carlo for scenery) where 18 wheelers and buses are allowed, it being a first priority secondary road. Frankly, I have NO idea how come they didn't ban them from that stretch of the road. Or ban buses and trucks and leave cyclists - but all of them at the same time is just a disaster waiting to happen.

[/URL]
Yep, this man has driven in Europe OK

The cyclists here in the UK are around 50% Ar****les (I do seem to use estimate a lot in my posts). Aside from the above mentions, they seem to all have a chip on their shoulder and think they are the ones hard done by. If they weren't such ignorant little twerps they probably would get a little more tolerance from the UK car drivers. I've had them drive directly at me on shared paths a few times, trying to intimidate me. And that's nearly always on paths that have signs stating "Cyclists - give way to pedestrians".
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2011 F11 530D SE Touring (ex)
2001 E39 525i SE Touring (ex)
1995 E34 525i SE Touring (ex)
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