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  #51  
Old 12-21-2016, 12:46 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotsyDriver View Post
well - i'm not sure. I wondered if something like a wastegate fails gradually. sticking "slightly" open.

It was interesting to see mitocross also posted above about this "produced soot mass per time" parameter in Carly spiking to a very high number, the same behaviour I observed earlier in the thread, I thought maybe a randomly sticking or partially closed waste gate may have caused that irregularity.

No one in the thread has suggested which sensor that parameter may be generated by. Carly themselves have not provided any specific info to me at this stage. Of course its totally possible the app is at fault and just reporting odd/spiking numbers.

But the wastegate sounded like 1 thing (of many) that might produce excess soot if it was not operating 100% correctly.
I had to replace EGR because of code (warranty). Turned out it was pressure converter since code was back after new EGR was installed. I would say at one point it will throw code.
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  #52  
Old 12-21-2016, 05:50 AM
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I have a 2011 x5d and use carly with gen 1 adapter.
My soot mass and couple other DPF related parameters never show anything, anyone has this issue?
I emailed Carly to ask for a warranty replacement, i think the dongles have lifetime warranty.
It also gives me errors and saying connection lost.
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  #53  
Old 12-21-2016, 06:46 AM
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A connection stability update came out yesterday. It appears to me that one cannot navigate away from a page and keep its settings.

Recently I worked to force a DPF regeneration, monitoring some parameters to see when the motor was hot enough. Then I navigated to the DPF page and went through the request rigamarole. When I went back to parameters to monitor the regeneration, the previous monitored parameters were gone.

I was driving in blowing snow at ~15F on our longest straightest road at 70 kph and couldn't stand the distraction of continually tinkering with Carly.
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  #54  
Old 12-21-2016, 07:12 AM
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Yes i had that issue as well, i was doing the same thing and very distracting while driving and kept getting CONNECTION LOST message while changing parameters. My blood pressure went up im sure and i said F it!! and closed it out.
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  #55  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:53 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozer View Post
I have a 2011 x5d and use carly with gen 1 adapter.
My soot mass and couple other DPF related parameters never show anything, anyone has this issue?
I emailed Carly to ask for a warranty replacement, i think the dongles have lifetime warranty.
It also gives me errors and saying connection lost.
Mine shows everything, but it is Gen II.
Agree with Doug, Carly is seriously unfriendly!
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  #56  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:57 AM
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All that was working before but now they are trying to force people to buy the Gen 2 which isn't right.
I understand that new features are available with gen 2 but dont eliminate features that used to work with gen 1 and only allow them to work with gen 2.

Anyone else has gen 1 and cant use some older features?
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  #57  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:15 AM
edycol edycol is offline
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Originally Posted by Ozer View Post
All that was working before but now they are trying to force people to buy the Gen 2 which isn't right.
I understand that new features are available with gen 2 but dont eliminate features that used to work with gen 1 and only allow them to work with gen 2.

Anyone else has gen 1 and cant use some older features?
Agree. Carly is great idea, but they fail in a lot of areas. They just updated app. The background is now white with small blue letters and numbers. Impossible to see in sun.
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  #58  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:41 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Hi all,

Just wanted to post an update - i have a theory about the Soot Mass "rising very quickly" and causing alarm.

Essentially, my theory is what Ard proposed back on page 1...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
One possibility:
It may be the computer sets the value to 0 immediately after a regen, based on the assumption it has just been cleaned/emptied...but then, rapidly, as you drive the sensors (flow resistance, pressure differentials) become apparent and the computer then recalculates the soot load.

Which would mean it isnt creating massive amounts of soot and clogging, rather it is clogged and remains clogs- OR the sensors that are used to calculate the loads are somehow in error....
I've come to believe Ard is exactly right.
Here's why I believe that:

I monitored "Soot Mass" and "Simulated Soot Mass" simultaneously and charted the values.
If you just monitor these values while driving nothing weird jumps out.

When you chart the values, something very interesting appears.

They will display different values for a while, and then watch what happens when a regen starts...

Lets say you start with these parameters:
Soot Mass = 43gm, and Simulated Soot Mass = 36gm.
Then you notice a regen commencing (mine usually starts around 43gm-44gm soot mass).
The simulated soot mass number will begin dropping, and suddenly the "soot mass" value will jump to be an identical number to "simulated soot mass".

This is a key point.

The soot mass value has just shifted (i believe) from an actual reading (at least, a calculation of what it believes is the soot mass based on back pressure sensor values - i'm not saying theres a tiny set of scales in the DPF ), to a made up / simulated reading.

So the regen happens over the next 10 mins, your Soot Mass has dropped to somewhere between 0-15gm, and you think - 'Great! my DPF is now cleaned somewhat', but it hasn't, its still reflecting the "simulated soot mass" value - or the best case scenario. In practice, your DPF probably only burnt off a small amount of soot because its getting less and less efficient as it gets older. So in practice, lets assume over the period of that successful regen it just actually dropped from 43gm to 38gm. Again, you think it dropped to 0-15gm, because thats what the parameter said, but it didn't.

So then 3 minutes after your successful regen, the "Soot Mass" parameter switches back to a real reading (away from a simulated reading.)
It then begins climbing rapidly - because the computer is continuously recalculating the value based on pressure readings - and the distance travelled.
After 1 minute its displaying 20gm. Computer says "No - its still higher". Soot Mass keeps climbing.
After 3 minutes its displaying 30gm. Computer says "No - its still higher" Soot Mass keeps climbing.
It rapidly climbs up to 38gm and then stabilises, and begins climbing slower.
That's because its returned to its actual value it was physically able to regenerate to.
Then you've got a relatively short distance to travel before your soot mass climbs from 38gm to 43gm and the regen process has to start again.

Confirming - My belief is that a successful regen is only actually reducing the Soot Mass from 43gm to 38gm each time (in my case). And this is completely normal, and the best it can do given the remaining life of the DPF.


We think the forever rapidly climbing numbers are a problem, but its now my belief its just the computer recalculating the figures and shifting from a simulated value to a real value.

Here's my proof from charted values of simultaneously monitoring soot mass and simulated soot mass...





So, in summary - I think Ard was right on Page 1.
I think this is just what happens when your DPF is nearing full.
Normal operating behaviour, until it fills completely and can no longer do active regens, at which point you get it removed/cleaned, or replace it.
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Last edited by AU Pete; 09-03-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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  #59  
Old 08-09-2017, 07:09 PM
Badsmerf Badsmerf is offline
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I haven't read the entire thread, but 125km is not very much. For some reason your dpf doesn't look like it is operating correctly. Your trend lines look great too.
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  #60  
Old 08-10-2017, 06:27 AM
TroubledGnome TroubledGnome is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU Pete View Post
Hi all,

Just wanted to post an update - i have a theory about the Soot Mass "rising very quickly" and causing alarm.

Essentially, my theory is what Ard proposed back on page 1...


When you chart the values, something very interesting appears.
Nice work and sounds logical.

I'll be curious to see if people that tow with some regularity have longer lived DPF. I've noticed when pulling the 12' enclosed trailer my exhaust temps go in and out of re-generation numbers when pulling on hilly terrain. So you sort of end up with a very long regeneration cycle depending on the length of the trip.

I have 109k miles now and my soot mass numbers stay low for quite some time after a regeneration if I'm on the highway.
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  #61  
Old 08-13-2017, 02:47 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubledGnome View Post
I'll be curious to see if people that tow with some regularity have longer lived DPF.
I think most people towing something are probably by nature of whatever they're towing clocking up some great out of town miles. So you're in a good place on 2 counts:

1) you're probably doing some regular long drives keeping the exhaust temp high
2) the extra load of towing would compound those nice consistent high exhaust temps

both of those would (i imagine) promote long periods of passive regeneration going up and down those hills, which in turn amount to long periods between active regeneration being necessary.
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  #62  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:16 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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===
Note: thereís no question here at the end of this - just providing a brain dump
===

Well after about 16 months since starting this thread, I think I have a satisfactory resolution so am providing an update.

Up until 6 weeks ago my 3.0d X5 was continuing to regenerate the DPF fine (albeit quite frequently).

Over the last 6-12 months Iíve had a glow plug errors on 2 cylinders. This did *NOT* stop the car regenerating, Iím in a warm climate and it didnít cause a rough idle when cold - so it was just ignored.

6 weeks ago I got the dreaded ĎParticulate filter blockedí error on the dash (a 481A fault code). A scan of the codes in Carly showed I now had glow plug fault code now on 3 cylinders, along with the 481A code. As I now know, an error on 3 cylinders seems to be the threshold. Once I had 3, the car would no longer regenerate, even after trying to clear the codes and go for a highway drive etc.

Off it went to the mechanic and upon my request (based on reading this forum) I asked for the glow plug controller module to be checked along with the glow plugs themselves. As suspected, the glow plug controller (alone) was indeed the fault. After it was replaced it was again regenerating successfully - and I had no fault codes. Thanks to the forum - saved the cost of unnecessarily replacing glow plugs.

Then 2 weeks later - I had the 481A fault code again showing in Carly and no other errors. At that point, I was at the point I knew was coming - that the DPF was full. I could go for a long highway drive and clear it eventually - but this is not sustainable as my wife needs to drive the car around town - and when driven around town with so little ďheadroomĒ left in the DPF, it was at a stage where regens would be continually interrupted and the 481A fault code would inevitably appear.

So I then progressed to getting the DPF removed and cleaned by Western Filters here in Sydney. another member had the same treatment done there aswell.

The bad news: In removing the DPF a temperature sensor was damaged and had to be replaced. Another mechanic had warned me about this - essentially theyíre prone to being damaged when removed because they kinda get fused on there - being exposed to such high heat during regens. So Iíd only recommend going down this DPF removal route as a last resort because of this risk.

The good news: Iím now getting about 250km-350km between regens depending on driving conditions (city vs highway) instead of seemingly continual or every 80km or so.

I donít think the DPF cleaning has left it ďas good as newĒ. I think one can expect longer distances between regens with a brand new DPF. But it has cleaned it out somewhat and at least now seems to have some headroom so hopefully itíll be able to regen when it needs to to counteract the inevitable short drives it still has to do around town. (We do a long highway drive about once a month). In short, previously the ďsoot massĒ would rapidly rise all the way to 43gm and kick off a regen frequently. Now after a regen the soot mass settles in around the high 20ís and low 30ís for much longer, before eventually rising to 43gm after 250-350km.

I gather itís unusual to have to get to this point (the DPF should in theory last as long as the car), but I believe my car may have just been a 100% city car before I got it (and before I knew what a DPF was) and could easily have had any one of the following issues that could have caused the car to not regenerate:

- faulty thermostat (they generally fail open, keep the engine too cool, and wont throw a fault code)
- glow plug error code on 3 or more cylinders
- temperature sensor on the DPF throwing a fault code

In the time Iíve had it (2 years) Iíve had all of these problems at various stages. And of course the longer the car drives around not properly regenerating, the worse the DPF becomes clogged - so I could imagine it being (potentially) an ignored problem by a previous owner.

Anyway, hopefully Iíve got several years of extended DPF life in it now after having it cleaned out.
Hereís a chart that shows how itís only regenerating once on a long drive - as compared to continually in the charts Iíd posted previously.

Car is driving great with no fault codes over the last 3-4 weeks I've been testing it before posting this resolution.

I also highly recommend charting your parameters if you are trying to solve problems - it makes it much easier to spot trends.

Pete

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  #63  
Old 10-27-2017, 08:20 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Pete - thanks for this "brain dump", I have been watching this thread, very useful information!

I have the iOS version of Carly (v32.3.7).

Question - assuming you are also on an iPhone/iOS, which Carly parameter are you using to read the distance traveled since last regen? Is it - "Vehicle mileage at the last regen"? If not, which one do you use?

My X5d - 2011MY, June 2010 build, 122,500 miles.

Attached are the Carly parameters I am currently monitoring . . . this screen reflects the changes I made after reading your thread.

Thanks again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AU Pete View Post
===
The good news: Iím now getting about 250km-350km between regens depending on driving conditions (city vs highway) instead of seemingly continual or every 80km or so.
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  #64  
Old 10-28-2017, 07:45 AM
mitocross mitocross is offline
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Hello everyone,
Over the past year we have been writing messages and sharing info together with Pete, trying to find a solution to this.
I have been through a process of unsuccessful DPF cleaning (clogged by "wet" cleaning method, 30km between regens) to buying a brand new OEM DPF filter together with changing all the sensors for new ones, faulty glow plugs+controller, and more... No significant changes were observed after the changes - apart from buing new DPF of course.
My new DPF has ran more than 20000km since installing and the frequency of my regenerations is approx 150-200km constantly doing city driving, 200-300km highway, and a combination of all. Additionally partial regenerations are happening in between as well sometimes.
By reading this thread all over again I have an impression the distance between regenerations this short is normal on an E70. This can be quite "depressing" when everyone on forums about other cars (evern other manufacturer cars) writes about 400-600km normal and 1000km max. (BMWs will trigger regen automatically at this mileage). But I have yet to find the magical solution to our cars behaving as they are and not as most other cars do.
What I am sure of is that too many short city drives is the worst case scenario for DPF health due to low exhaust temperatures. This applies to any DPF in any car.

I would welcome if more people can write the Distance between regeneration in this thread. Thank you.

Last edited by mitocross; 10-28-2017 at 07:48 AM.
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  #65  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:20 AM
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Doug Huffman Doug Huffman is offline
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Last I looked, and not recently, 150 miles (240 km). I have since had before and after NOx sensors changed.

My X5 is subject to chronic short trips ~<20 miles, 45 mph speed limit, and freezing temperatures most of the year.

I always drive it like I stole it, in manual to keep >2000 RPM.
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  #66  
Old 10-28-2017, 10:46 AM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is online now
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Im averaging 170 mile intervals per carly app. Mostly short driving, good amount of kid-in-car idling, and about 40% of my mileage on highway.
Im at 101k

On my list are: vacuum lines, DPF diff sensor, all switching valves, nox sensors.
completed already thermostat and ex pressure sensor.

After these, Im hoping that I will increase my interval by creating less soot and reading the soot more accurately.
I currently have a throttle plate fault so Im actually not regenerating at all right now. grr
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  #67  
Old 10-28-2017, 11:18 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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My X5d - 2011MY, 2010 June build, ~122,700 miles.

478 successful regens over a period of 7+ years and ~122,700 miles.

Here is a thread I ran across that lists ash mass, regens and miles.

That works out to about 260 miles between regens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitocross View Post
. . . I would welcome if more people can write the Distance between regeneration in this thread. Thank you.
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  #68  
Old 10-30-2017, 01:09 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
Question - assuming you are also on an iPhone/iOS, which Carly parameter are you using to read the distance traveled since last regen? Is it - "Vehicle mileage at the last regen"? If not, which one do you use?
I'm using the "Distance traveled since the last regeneration" parameter.
I gather different models will get a different set of parameters appearing in Carly though - so while there's a bunch of parameters we both have, there's probably some that only some of us are seeing.

(My X5 is a 3.0d 08/2007 build).

On the distance between regens generally... another thing I've noticed:

I note sometimes I'll see a behaviour from the DPF that suggests its regenerating (high DPF temp + falling soot mass) but then after that process is done (lets say 10 mins of driving) it'll appear to finish its regen (exhaust temp falls back down and soot mass starts slowly rising again) and the "Distance traveled since the last regeneration" parameter will not reset to zero. I gather this is one of the different types of regeneration happening (passive?) and not an "active" regeneration. Anyway - long story short - when I refer to the distance between regens I'm always referring to a regen that causes the "Distance traveled since the last regeneration" parameter to be reset to zero. If one was just monitoring exhaust temp and soot mass they might get confused about what their real distance between regens are.

Pete
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  #69  
Old 01-28-2018, 02:25 PM
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Interesting read, having the same sort of issues on my 535d, levels are ok and the damn thing regenerates far more than I think it should. I have only had it a few months and fixed all the reasons why it wouldn't regenerate, I think it is doing it around 100 miles or less. I only just recorded the 1st one as ISTA claims to have records of the last 3 regens but it seems the last 2 are false readings.

Anyway I will keep an eye on things now, thanks for the insight.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:34 PM
COdieselx5 COdieselx5 is offline
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Following here fellas. I have a 2009 E70 x5 35d approaching 90k miles.
It lived in So Cal a little over a year ago, when it went into the BMW dealership for scheduled maintenance and check engine light.
Regarding engine codes, our invoice said "FAULTY ACTIVE TANK, SENSORS SHORT CIRCUITED, CANNOT ACCURATELY METER DEF AMOUNT, CAUSED SCR TO FAIL."
And on another line item, "SECONDARY FAULT FOR DPF, CLOGGED, DUE TO SHORT DISTANCE DRIVING, PERFORMED REGEN" though we all know nothing is short distance in Los Angeles.
To remedy these, they replaced the active tank, exhaust pipe w/ catalytic, and nox sensor (which?) to the tune of $5500.
A month after this service, Jan 2017, the car moved to Colorado, with no check engine light.
A few months went by and the check engine light came on. We brought it to a reputable BMW mechanic 8/17.
Codes:
4A1E (P0676) GLOW PLUG, CYLINDER 6, ACTIVATION
4A6F (P066B)GLOW CONTROL UNIT
4A1F (P067F) GLOW CONTROL UNIT
4B81 (P0402) EXHAUST-GAS RECIRCULATION-RATE CONTROL, CONTROL DEVIATION

They recommended replace all glow plugs and module before winter. Brought it back in Dec to replace two bad glow plugs (They said the module tested good) and came up with more codes:
4a6f - glow control unit output stage cylinder 1 faulty
4a1f - Glow control unit output stage cylinder 6 faulty
4bf5 - Nox sensor before denox cat signal nitrogen oxide
43e2 - throttle valve actuator activation
4530 - charge air pressure control deviation
480a - particulate filter system
459ch/17820 undocumented code

In addition, the car/computer had begun to indicate "engine malfunction reduced output" message sometimes the first acceleration out of the driveway, and sometimes when trying to maintain cruising speed uphill, usually in cold weather. The engine never actually lost much power but mpg would momentarily spike as the throttle let off slightly. This always goes away after a few seconds.

All they recommend now is replace nox sensor ($900), replace DPF ($3300), replace glow module and other 4 glow plugs, and they recommended an engine vac for all the soot, which i know is just going to push more junk to the dpf.

What can you guys recommend for me here, esp. Pete having been through all this? Replace EGR Temp sensor? And glow plug control module?

I feel like regens have not been happening for quite some time. Also seems like its running rich and mpg is down 2-3 points. The dealership work is under its two year warranty but we live 4 or 5 hours from the nearest dealership.
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:53 PM
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Have you ever replaced the mass air sensor? That could be causing the reduced power message.

You can get reimbursed for the Active tank and Nox sensors, those are covered under 10 years/120K warranties.

Replace the glow plug controller before doing the plugs. $3300 is a lot for the DPF, I was quoted $1700 by a dealership in MD.

You might consider making your own post, and hopefully the big guns will chime in.
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  #72  
Old 02-01-2018, 01:02 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COdieselx5 View Post
What can you guys recommend for me here, esp. Pete having been through all this? Replace EGR Temp sensor? And glow plug control module?
I'd be deferring to the more knowledgeable members of the forum here - I'm not sure about a lot of those fault codes. I'm not even sure my pre lci 2007 Australian X5 30d has a DEF tank...

What I would ask is do you have the Carly App with an OBD adapter to read codes yourself and monitor anything?

I didn't see any mentions of thermostats (not sure if you have 1 or 2) being replaced. Your slightly poor mileage suggests a stuck open / failed thermostat - so the car is always in "warm up" mode and using more fuel. If they stick open, they don't throw a fault code and apparently mechanics miss it all the time. That'll kick off all sorts of problems with not regenerating.

It sounds like you've got more problems than just the thermostat but if you can help fix that problem it might be something the mechanics are missing.

If you don't have the Carly App you can access the hidden menu and your coolant temp - see the below video. If you coolant temp stays down around 70-80 degrees celsius thats a sure sign your thermostat is faulty. it should be up around 90 and steady during stop/start and highway driving. Here's the thread where we found out mine was faulty: https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=910407 and heres the video to access the hidden menu

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  #73  
Old 04-02-2018, 07:26 PM
dzlbimmer dzlbimmer is online now
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Pete, did you ever try changing your oxygen sensor independently?

Other thread relevant info:
(Disclaimer: US 10 X5d Android current gen adapter.)
Easy way to monitor regens in Carly, monitor these three parameters:
Regeneration Requested - 0 not active 6 requested 4 active
Soot mass - monitor this (and your average mileage) so you know when to watch the Regeneration Requested paramteter
Temperature before particulate filter - (watch this as an EGT gauge in general, but also interesting to watch the temps soar during regen)
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  #74  
Old 04-02-2018, 08:05 PM
AU Pete AU Pete is offline
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Location: Sydney
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 164
Mein Auto: 2007 X5 E70 3.0d
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzlbimmer View Post
Pete, did you ever try changing your oxygen sensor independently?
No, trying to think back through the whole saga, but I don't think I ever had any error codes directly referring to the oxygen sensor, so i don't think it was touched. (Car is still running fine btw - touch wood)

Pete
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2007 E70 X5 3.0d
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  #75  
Old 05-19-2018, 07:14 AM
GoNz0 GoNz0 is offline
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Location: Nottingham UK
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 23
Mein Auto: 1991 320 ise
I gave in and reset the DPF values today, the back pressure is very low (6mb idle, 80 at 4k) and even after a 200 mile round trip where it did a regen part way it tried to do another yesterday after 120 miles, ash mass is calculated at 40g so plenty of life left in it. I hope this calms the constant regens.
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