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  #3801  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
And Sony's webpage for Vision S:

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/vision-s/

Sensor suite for autonomy suggests full redundancy, similar to MobilEye. both vision and radar/lidars can capture 3D environment. Except that instead of using stereo cameras, they are using time of flight image sensors. 3 lidars, 5 radars. Very nice setup.
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  #3802  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
In the mean time, April 2019 CR auto issue does not recommend any of the Tesla, and rates Model 3 and S single down arrow, and Model X double down arrow. So Tesla owners do uphold the tradition of simultaneously being extremely satisfied, yet suffering from below-average reliability.

In a couple of months the April 2020 CR will be out, so the latest Tesla reliability ratings will be revealed.
You're out of date. Article from November 14, 2019.


Quote:
Tesla Model 3 and Model S Regain a Consumer Reports Recommendation

Two of Tesla's three models-the Model 3 and the Model S sedans-have regained a Consumer Reports recommendation because of improved reliability based on the results of our annual survey of CR members.



https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...ecommendation/

Last edited by GregD; 01-09-2020 at 07:04 AM.
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  #3803  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:38 AM
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You're out of date. Article from November 14, 2019.
Funny you say that bc the article and list you linked is dated as Feb 20, 2019.
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  #3804  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:01 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by GregD View Post
You're out of date. Article from November 14, 2019.
CR does update on Nov 14, 2019, but CR online (supposedly the most up to date?) does not show "RECOMMENDED" tick for Model 3.

CR has flip flopped a few times about Model 3(very contentious it seems), let's see what the April 2020 issue says.

"Update: On Nov. 14, 2019, the Tesla Model 3 and Model S regained a Consumer Reports Recommendation. Get more details here. "

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...bility-issues/

Last edited by namelessman; 01-09-2020 at 08:04 AM.
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  #3805  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:02 AM
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BMW i3 outsold Model 3 in 2019 in Germany.
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  #3806  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:10 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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CR's comment of Tesla's inconsistent reliability, as a customer the hope is that one does not catch the bad stuff that is introduced by Tesla from its constant changes(including OTA).

"Some of Tesla's inconsistent reliability may result from its unique approach to manufacturing, says CR's Fisher. Though most other automakers tend to make improvements on the assembly line all at once, before a new model year begins, Tesla makes numerous running changes throughout the year. Tesla has changed parts, including major items such as motors and suspension components, only a few months after beginning production on a new model. It can take time for any manufacturer to work out reliability problems with new parts, and it's even harder if they're introduced frequently, Fisher says.

Tesla also can change performance characteristics or add functions through over-the-air software updates throughout the year. CR owns a Model 3 and evaluates new features as they're enabled, like our recent testing of Tesla's Smart Summon feature."
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  #3807  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:15 AM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by acoste View Post
BMW i3 outsold Model 3 in 2019 in Germany.
What are the units sold on both in 2019?
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  #3808  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:29 AM
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What are the units sold on both in 2019?
Zoe: 9431
i3: 9382 (265 REX)
TM3: 9013
Smart: 7649
eGolf: 6898
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  #3809  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
CR does update on Nov 14, 2019, but CR online (supposedly the most up to date?) does not show "RECOMMENDED" tick for Model 3.

CR has flip flopped a few times about Model 3(very contentious it seems), let's see what the April 2020 issue says.

"Update: On Nov. 14, 2019, the Tesla Model 3 and Model S regained a Consumer Reports Recommendation. Get more details here. "

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...bility-issues/

If you have a CR online subscription, go to the following link, and you'll see that CR shows recommended for both the Model 3 and Model S now. It shows last updated December 24, 2019.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...-satisfaction/
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  #3810  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
BMW i3 outsold Model 3 in 2019 in Germany.
Considering Model 3 didn't start being delivered in Europe until February and only a limited number at first, looking at the year as a whole is doing a bit of an apples and oranges comparison.The question is, was the number determined by supply limitations or demand. We should have a better idea of this over the coming year.

The other question I have is how much does an i3 cost in Germany versus a Model 3?
Edit: I looked this up. The i3 starts at 38,000 Euros in Germany, the Model 3 starts at 44,390 Euros.

Last edited by GregD; 01-09-2020 at 12:12 PM.
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  #3811  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
Funny you say that bc the article and list you linked is dated as Feb 20, 2019.
At the top of the article I linked it has the following.
Quote:
By Jeff Plungis




I don't know what you're looking at.
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  #3812  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GregD View Post
At the top of the article I linked it has the following.



I don't know what you're looking at.

Click on your original link. This is what I see there.



.
.

Then you share a list which is from 2019 February even though it does not match to your first sentences.


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  #3813  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:13 PM
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You're looking at the wrong link. There was another link in the post that you responded to. Please see that link - https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...postcount=3802

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoste View Post
Click on your original link. This is what I see there.



.
.

Then you share a list which is from 2019 February even though it does not match to your first sentences.


.
.
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  #3814  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:32 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Originally Posted by GregD View Post
If you have a CR online subscription, go to the following link, and you'll see that CR shows recommended for both the Model 3 and Model S now. It shows last updated December 24, 2019.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...-satisfaction/
CR shows Model 3 by model year, the one from 2017-2019 does not have "RECOMMENDED" tick, but the newly added 2020 now has "RECOMMENDED" tick.

So it does make sense to wait a few years after product introduction to wait for the issues to be flushed out.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars.../2019/overview
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  #3815  
Old 01-15-2020, 02:17 PM
st_o_p st_o_p is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
CR shows Model 3 by model year, the one from 2017-2019 does not have "RECOMMENDED" tick, but the newly added 2020 now has "RECOMMENDED" tick.

So it does make sense to wait a few years after product introduction to wait for the issues to be flushed out.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars.../2019/overview
Sure - it's a common knowledge to skip the first production year - and that goes for BMW too.

My 2019 Tesla Model 3 has been completely problem-free - and it's a very early 2019 production (delivered in March).
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  #3816  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:57 PM
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I've had the 2019 M3 for 4 months now and it's problem free. I'm still getting feature updates from Tesla every other month so that's pretty cool. Is it a 3 series killer? Yes and no, depending on what your prefers are. It's not as refined as the 3 series but it's much more high tech. The interior is very minimalist and doesn't have as much adjustments. There's no heated wheel and no pop up trunk. The quality of material is just barely above Toyota. But the performance is way higher than any car under $70k.

I've driven some fast cars and they don't scare me as much as the Model 3 Performance off the line the first time. It was so quick off the line and so smooth no lag at all.

If you need a refine understated car for commute and don't need high tech. Then go pick up your 3 series. The Model 3 while understated to some but it's a look at me car right now. I get more looks than sitting in my 528.
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  #3817  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:28 PM
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If you need a refine understated car for commute and don't need high tech. Then go pick up your 3 series. The Model 3 while understated to some but it's a look at me car right now. I get more looks than sitting in my 528.
Yes Model 3 is a fashion statement in our locales which are Tesla's home turfs, while a lightly-optioned non-tech 3-series also is a solid choice as usual for commute and road trips.
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  #3818  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:45 PM
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Sure - it's a common knowledge to skip the first production year - and that goes for BMW too.
My F30 was bought bought 9 months into US-delivery, and it had its shares of recalls. The one nagging issue is potential N20/N26 timing chain issue that BMWNA will need to address in the class action lawsuit's first settlement conference in 2.5 weeks.

Other than those, the car(7.25 years and 72.5k miles) has zero paint issue, rattles were all fixed under warranty(2-3 visits). MWNA also used my car to test alarm sensor revisions(while the car was in shop for maintenance and recalls with loaners of unlimited miles).

This F30 is relatively cheap to maintain too, e.g. $70 dealer oil change, $300 dealer brake fluid+ coolant, $150 indy spark plugs, $5 DIY air filter, $10 DIY wiper blade, all genuine BMW. Those prices are not too far off from Honda ones.
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  #3819  
Old 01-17-2020, 03:42 PM
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To answer the thread title question, to say that the Model 3 is the 3-series killer might be a little strong, but it's certainly beaten it up, mangled it, and destroyed it's market share in the U.S. The 3-series was riding high until the Model 3 came along.


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  #3820  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:08 PM
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The 3-series was riding high until the Model 3 came along.
.... and until BMW is dominated by SUV sales like X3, and keeps growing sales.

Now Model Y will be available this year, so let's see if BMW can hold to its customers.
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  #3821  
Old 01-17-2020, 07:35 PM
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The Model 3 wins

After driving a 530e for a little over a year I can tell you I wish I had purchased the model 3 instead. This 530e has been in and out of service 8 times and still drives horribly due to regenerative breaks.
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  #3822  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
.... and until BMW is dominated by SUV sales like X3, and keeps growing sales.

Now Model Y will be available this year, so let's see if BMW can hold to its customers.
I expect that there will be a bit of a rebound in sales for the 3 series with the introduction of the G20 model. I'll be curious to see how much.
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  #3823  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lemon530e View Post
After driving a 530e for a little over a year I can tell you I wish I had purchased the model 3 instead. This 530e has been in and out of service 8 times and still drives horribly due to regenerative breaks.
I really think if you are tired of normal car problems then go try a Tesla out. The car is just amazing to drive and of all the new cars I've owned this is the least problematic in initial quality.

The only problem is the winter driving range is not so good, I get about 60-70% range in winter. So instead of the 300mi range I have, I get about 225 in the winter with the heater on. This means I need to charge more often. For what it's worth it beats every BMW in this class in terms of performance.
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  #3824  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:35 PM
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After driving a 530e for a little over a year I can tell you I wish I had purchased the model 3 instead. This 530e has been in and out of service 8 times and still drives horribly due to regenerative breaks.
What issue(s) brought the car in service 8 times? Dual transmissions are complicated, an alternative is extended range like i3's gasoline powered electric generator.
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  #3825  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:31 AM
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I really think if you are tired of normal car problems then go try a Tesla out. The car is just amazing to drive and of all the new cars I've owned this is the least problematic in initial quality.

The only problem is the winter driving range is not so good, I get about 60-70% range in winter. So instead of the 300mi range I have, I get about 225 in the winter with the heater on. This means I need to charge more often. For what it's worth it beats every BMW in this class in terms of performance.
We got another Elon believer here. Signed up to praise Tesla. Just like your friend with the nonexistent lemon 530e. Could be the same person.
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