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  #3951  
Old 04-15-2020, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SR22pilot View Post
I'm impressed with the Taycan. What I like most is that it is a real Porsche. Efficiency (EPA wise) is low but, in true good engineering fashion, it is optimized for what it is. The two speed transmission means it does well at high speeds. EPA ratings are great for ICE cars. However, even a Leaf has plenty of range for most daily uses. Where range matters in an EV is cruising at 80 on an Interstate. I am a Tesla fan but I was happy to see Porsche's effort be a good one. I don't think the Taycan competes directly with the S. There is a large price difference but it is the best comparison one can make. There aren't a lot of similar vehicles out there. Heck, people were comparing the iPace to the X. The iPace is much closer to the Y.
Tesla doesn't build anything that's really made to compete with the Taycan today. I haven't driven it but it looks amazing and it seems to be selling really well.
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  #3952  
Old 04-16-2020, 04:39 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by acoste View Post
Here for example: constant 75mph test, https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-performance/
Taycan Turbo S; 209mi
Model S Perf; 222mi
After compensating for the difference in batteries for the Taycan: 92/84*209 = 229mi

Taycan is more efficient at 75mi even though it has wider tires.
A little late to this subtopic but you do realize that the model Taycan they tested is $85,000.00 more than the top of the line Model S they tested? A price comparable 4S has 390 kW vs 560kW for the Turbo S model CD tested. There's a reason the Tesla received 20 points for price vs 4 for the Porsche.
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  #3953  
Old 04-19-2020, 01:53 PM
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A little late to this subtopic but you do realize that the model Taycan they tested is $85,000.00 more than the top of the line Model S they tested? A price comparable 4S has 390 kW vs 560kW for the Turbo S model CD tested. There's a reason the Tesla received 20 points for price vs 4 for the Porsche.
Sure, but how much more would the Tesla cost if it was built to the Porches quality level.
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  #3954  
Old 05-10-2020, 10:44 AM
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Sure, but how much more would the Tesla cost if it was built to the Porches quality level.
That is a fair question, although most Tesla owners are OK to accept the quality level in exchange for perceived tech advantage at the asking prices.
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  #3955  
Old 05-10-2020, 10:51 AM
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So Model Y started delivery in mid March around the time CA started shelter in place, there is hardly any car on the road let alone Model Y, so has anyone test driven Model Y from family/friends that took delivery?

Musk also is wrestling with county health to reopen Fremont factory.

And Musk announced plant will be moved to Nevada. That probably will be a very expensive move esp. the biggest metal stamping robot is buried several stories into the ground.
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  #3956  
Old 05-10-2020, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post
Funny how the discussion turned out about whether Elon is a car guy. To me that matters exactly zero. His company makes amazing cars nobody can match - is all I care about.

To the guy that says he likes his BMW better than the Tesla - you are clearly the minority. Sure - the Tesla is not nearly as polished as a BMW, but overall it's a much better car. The acceleration is insane, and complaining about Model 3 handling is just hilarious. BMWs may be "planted" but Tesla Model 3 is like glued on the road. You can complain about not having heated steering wheel - I'm with you there but that's like way down compared to the important stuff. I can add to that list - cabin noise sucks (though apparently they improved in 2020), no HUD sucks and so on and so forth. Still blows BMW out of the water, despite that I miss those other things.

I agree there are a few things like HUD that I wish Tesla offered but other than that there is no comparison in the driving experience. Tesla blows every other vehicle away as far as pure fun driving. My wife and I have been driving bimmers for a long time and have really enjoyed them.

But since my wife has been driving a Tesla for the last year she never wants to go back to an ice vehicle. I still drive a 535I and really like it but my next vehicle will be a model S. I have not met anyone that has owned a Tesla that does not love their car and never wants to drive another gas vehicle.
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  #3957  
Old 05-11-2020, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mull6 View Post
I agree there are a few things like HUD that I wish Tesla offered but other than that there is no comparison in the driving experience. Tesla blows every other vehicle away as far as pure fun driving. My wife and I have been driving bimmers for a long time and have really enjoyed them.

But since my wife has been driving a Tesla for the last year she never wants to go back to an ice vehicle. I still drive a 535I and really like it but my next vehicle will be a model S. I have not met anyone that has owned a Tesla that does not love their car and never wants to drive another gas vehicle.
Some market analysts praised Tesla's abilities to rebound after COVID-19, citing strong market positions and innovations and loyal customer base and relatively small market share(not as much inventory headache?) and $8B+ cash on hand that can sustain 6-8 months of shutdown.

My thinking though is the relatively high US price points can be a disadvantage for Tesla amidst the new norm, and it is non-trivial to drop price without surging volume.
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  #3958  
Old 05-18-2020, 04:48 PM
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Meh..... No!

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  #3959  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:29 PM
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Meh..... No!

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Ive seen some nice looking front grille decals for the model 3 but that is not one of them.
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  #3960  
Old 05-19-2020, 10:17 PM
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There is a chance that the i4 will come with this battery. Svolt has European customers and some parameters match the i4.
Cobalt free and single crystal.

https://insideevs.com/news/424185/sv...i-ion-battery/
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  #3961  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:16 PM
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heeyy thank you so much for the information it helped me alot. I have found this which might help you so do check here
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  #3962  
Old 05-21-2020, 03:48 PM
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iX3 will come with NMC811 according to Electrek
https://electrek.co/2020/05/21/bmw-c...ible-platform/
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  #3963  
Old 05-21-2020, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by acoste View Post
iX3 will come with NMC811 according to Electrek
https://electrek.co/2020/05/21/bmw-c...ible-platform/
Since BMW isn't bringing the iX3 to America, I don't find it to be very interesting.
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  #3964  
Old 05-30-2020, 11:40 AM
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Report: BMW has a 1,006-horsepower, all-electric M5 in the works

https://electrek.co/2020/05/29/repor...-in-the-works/
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  #3965  
Old 06-26-2020, 08:27 PM
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The June 25, 2020 issue of the Wall Street Journal had an article about Tesla having the most problems of any car manufacturer. It said that Tesla previously wouldn't cooperate with car registration data so that a rating could not be calculated but that they used data from 35 states where Tesla couldn't obstruct data. It had about double the number of defects compared to the average.

The same issue had a front page article about ebay sending goon squads to retaliate against a blog writer who wrote negative things about ebay. Oh no, Tesla may send their hit squad for retribution.
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  #3966  
Old 06-26-2020, 09:07 PM
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You guys can keep taking shots at Tesla but if you owned one you would think differently. My wife has been driving one for a year now and she never wants to go back to a gas powered car. She has been driving BMW's for a long time but they cannot compared to a Tesla.
Whenever she drives my 535i she comments that it is a dog compared to her model 3. I drive her car whenever possible because they are the real ultimate driving machine and an ICE car can never come close to the driving experience of a Tesla.
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  #3967  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:19 AM
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You guys can keep taking shots at Tesla but if you owned one you would think differently.
Maybe, but maybe not.

I am wary of Tesla for a few reasons.

1. The company has no history of building cars. There is no vault of institutional knowledge. Similarly, when an established company comes out with a totally new car, often there are problems. This may improve with a second generation Model 3 unless the second generation changes are purely cosmetic.

2. Electric car technology is relatively new. Almost certainly there are bugs just like early version of fuel injection.

3. The design philosophy of Tesla may be cosmetic, not sporty driving. The exterior door handles are not a good design to me. How do they work? Electric motors to extend the exterior handle? If so, an extra motor to break down.

Even worse is the large touch screen in the center. That is the worse kind of design. Though I haven't used it, I've used touch screens in rental cars. You have to take your eyes off the road. In contrast, the 1980's Saab 900's had large heating/AC controls that you could operate with mittens and by feel. Touch screens must be designed by office workers, not real drivers.

All these issues can be eventually fixed so don't throw in the towel for Tesla.

The J D Power data is also not that bad. Even though Tesla was worse than any other car company, on average, there were fewer than 3 problems on every car. Of course, that could mean only one problem in one car and 5 problems in another Tesla. The problems are also in the first 90 (?) days so cars with non-robust parts and good ratings could wear out in 3-5 years while cars with more initial problems but robust parts could last longer.
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Step by step instructions when a hood release cable needs replacement. https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=981724
SIB 11 13 15 oil filter housing for the F30 - metal since mid-2013 and can be retrofitted without charge
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  #3968  
Old 06-27-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
Maybe, but maybe not.

I am wary of Tesla for a few reasons.

1. The company has no history of building cars. There is no vault of institutional knowledge. Similarly, when an established company comes out with a totally new car, often there are problems. This may improve with a second generation Model 3 unless the second generation changes are purely cosmetic.
Tesla has been building cars in at least some volume for 9 years now. That's not "no history", but it is limited history.

2. Electric car technology is relatively new. Almost certainly there are bugs just like early version of fuel injection.
Tesla has certainly experienced a number of bugs with electric car technology over the last decade plus that they've been building cars. When it comes to that technology today however, I think Tesla's reliability is better than ICE cars, and when it comes to electric car technology experience and knowledge, I think Tesla is far ahead of any other car company in the world.

Where Tesla falls down is in quality of assembly and cosmetic aspects. The JD Power survey cited above is related to the initial quality of the cars in the first 90 days of ownership. I'd bet money that 90%+ of the problems are cosmetic or assembly issues. I think a lot of those problems are due to the workers that Tesla gets in California.

3. The design philosophy of Tesla may be cosmetic, not sporty driving. The exterior door handles are not a good design to me. How do they work? Electric motors to extend the exterior handle? If so, an extra motor to break down.
I'd say that Tesla's cars are more oriented towards sporty driving than pretty much any mainstream manufacturer. You have to go to the limited production companies like Ferrari or Porsche to have a more sporty orientation.

The Model S and X have power door handles. They're nice and they generally work, but they are more problem prone than a mechanical door handle. The Model 3 and Y have mechanical door handles where you push on the short wide part and the long skinny part of the handle tilts out that you can pull the door open with.

Even worse is the large touch screen in the center. That is the worse kind of design. Though I haven't used it, I've used touch screens in rental cars. You have to take your eyes off the road. In contrast, the 1980's Saab 900's had large heating/AC controls that you could operate with mittens and by feel. Touch screens must be designed by office workers, not real drivers.
Touch screens in most cars are a kludge, an add on, and I agree that they don't work well and are cumbersome. The Teslas are designed from the ground up to use the touch screen and the implementation is an order of magnitude, or more, better. Also, you don't need to use the touch screen for most common vehicle functions any more. The voice recognition system can be used for most functions and works very well. A few of the more commonly used controls like volume, cruise control speed, and mute, can also be controlled by the scroll wheels on the steering wheel.

All these issues can be eventually fixed so don't throw in the towel for Tesla.
I'd say that most of them already are fixed.

The J D Power data is also not that bad. Even though Tesla was worse than any other car company, on average, there were fewer than 3 problems on every car. Of course, that could mean only one problem in one car and 5 problems in another Tesla. The problems are also in the first 90 (?) days so cars with non-robust parts and good ratings could wear out in 3-5 years while cars with more initial problems but robust parts could last longer.
One thing that I have noticed about Teslas is that most of the parts are very high quality which I think bodes well for long term reliability. The problems with Teslas generally aren't in the design or parts quality; they are assembly issues and sometimes service issues.
With our model 3, in the first year and 8 months of ownership while putting 24k miles on the car, we've had a total of 5 problems. 4 of them existed when the car was delivered and included 3 minor cosmetic issues and a headlight that water got into. Tesla took care of the headlight and 2 of the cosmetic issues with a visit to the service center. For the last cosmetic issue, they ordered the part, and when it came in, one of their "Rangers" came to my home and installed it.

The only other problem that has cropped up has been excessive wear on the outside edges of the front tires due to too much toe in. This took about 12k miles to show up. Tesla wouldn't fix it under warranty, so I took it to an alignment shop that fixed it for $60. For the first couple of years and 24k miles, I'd actually say our Tesla is one of the most reliable new cars I've ever owned. In fact, the only new car I've ever owned that had significantly fewer problems in a similar time/distance is a 2005 Lotus Elise. Who'd have thought.


Last edited by GregD; 06-27-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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  #3969  
Old 06-27-2020, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
Maybe, but maybe not.

I am wary of Tesla for a few reasons.

1. The company has no history of building cars. There is no vault of institutional knowledge. Similarly, when an established company comes out with a totally new car, often there are problems. This may improve with a second generation Model 3 unless the second generation changes are purely cosmetic.

2. Electric car technology is relatively new. Almost certainly there are bugs just like early version of fuel injection.

3. The design philosophy of Tesla may be cosmetic, not sporty driving. The exterior door handles are not a good design to me. How do they work? Electric motors to extend the exterior handle? If so, an extra motor to break down.

Even worse is the large touch screen in the fcenter. That is the worse kind of design. Though I haven't used it, I've used touch screens in rental cars. You have to take your eyes off the road. In contrast, the 1980's Saab 900's had large heating/AC controls that you could operate with mittens and by feel. Touch screens must be designed by office workers, not real drivers.

All these issues can be eventually fixed so don't throw in the towel for Tesla.

The J D Power data is also not that bad. Even though Tesla was worse than any other car company, on average, there were fewer than 3 problems on every car. Of course, that could mean only one problem in one car and 5 problems in another Tesla. The problems are also in the first 90 (?) days so cars with non-robust parts and good ratings could wear out in 3-5 years while cars with more initial problems but robust parts could last longer.
Again until you own one you have no idea of what your missing. The large touch screen displays the speed in the upper left corner which is just as easy to see if not easier than a speedometer that you have to look down to see.

The model 3 does not have motorized door handles. The other alleged problems you point out are weak at best. I will say it again my wife and I have been driving BMWs for 15 years and have really enjoyed them and Im still driving a 535I right now. But nothing that I have ever driven comes close to a Tesla and my next car will be a model S.
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  #3970  
Old 06-27-2020, 02:11 PM
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Responses in blue.


With our model 3, in the first year and 8 months of ownership while putting 24k miles on the car, we've had a total of 5 problems. 4 of them existed when the car was delivered and included 3 minor cosmetic issues and a headlight that water got into. Tesla took care of the headlight and 2 of the cosmetic issues with a visit to the service center. For the last cosmetic issue, they ordered the part, and when it came in, one of their "Rangers" came to my home and installed it.

The only other problem that has cropped up has been excessive wear on the outside edges of the front tires due to too much toe in. This took about 12k miles to show up. Tesla wouldn't fix it under warranty, so I took it to an alignment shop that fixed it for $60. For the first couple of years and 24k miles, I'd actually say our Tesla is one of the most reliable new cars I've ever owned. In fact, the only new car I've ever owned that had significantly fewer problems in a similar time/distance is a 2005 Lotus Elise. Who'd have thought.

I agree so far the Tesla cars we have owned were very reliable. We bought a 2015 model S more than a year ago with 40k miles on it. After a year of driving it and putting 20k on it one door handle malfunctioned and the mobile service fixed it for $150.00. We now own a 2018 model3 that has been trouble free and the best car we have ever owned.
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  #3971  
Old 06-27-2020, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GregD View Post
Responses in blue.


With our model 3, in the first year and 8 months of ownership while putting 24k miles on the car, we've had a total of 5 problems. 4 of them existed when the car was delivered and included 3 minor cosmetic issues and a headlight that water got into. Tesla took care of the headlight and 2 of the cosmetic issues with a visit to the service center. For the last cosmetic issue, they ordered the part, and when it came in, one of their "Rangers" came to my home and installed it.

The only other problem that has cropped up has been excessive wear on the outside edges of the front tires due to too much toe in. This took about 12k miles to show up. Tesla wouldn't fix it under warranty, so I took it to an alignment shop that fixed it for $60. For the first couple of years and 24k miles, I'd actually say our Tesla is one of the most reliable new cars I've ever owned. In fact, the only new car I've ever owned that had significantly fewer problems in a similar time/distance is a 2005 Lotus Elise. Who'd have thought.

Tesla's assembly issues and sometimes service issues are often ignored by Tesla enthusiasts but those issues are the ones that eat into customer's next purchase decisions, and/or how long to keep their Tesla.

And Tesla's enthusiasts complaining others taking shots at Tesla do not drive Tesla to strive for industry standards.
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  #3972  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Tesla's assembly issues and sometimes service issues are often ignored by Tesla enthusiasts but those issues are the ones that eat into customer's next purchase decisions, and/or how long to keep their Tesla.

And Tesla's enthusiasts complaining others taking shots at Tesla do not drive Tesla to strive for industry standards.
I don't know any tesla owner's that are not happy with their car and all that I know will only purchase a Tesla in the future.
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  #3973  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:41 PM
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I don't know any tesla owner's that are not happy with their car and all that I know will only purchase a Tesla in the future.
Any unhappy Tesla owner probably prefers not to be ridiculed by Tesla enthusiasts, and quietly acts and/or plans with minimal fanfare.
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  #3974  
Old 06-27-2020, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
Any unhappy Tesla owner probably prefers not to be ridiculed by Tesla enthusiasts, and quietly acts and/or plans with minimal fanfare.
I'm sure there's a few Tesla owners who have been totally turned off by their Tesla experience and won't buy another one as a result, but it's obviously not a significant number since Tesla consistently tops customer satisfaction indexes. Also, when someone gets upset at a company, they're usually not concerned about ridicule at all.
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  #3975  
Old 06-27-2020, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GregD View Post
I'm sure there's a few Tesla owners who have been totally turned off by their Tesla experience and won't buy another one as a result, but it's obviously not a significant number since Tesla consistently tops customer satisfaction indexes. Also, when someone gets upset at a company, they're usually not concerned about ridicule at all.
At this stage Tesla is gradually morphing from cult status into name brand.

While someone can be upset about Tesla, talking against the cause is still a bit off-limit at the time, esp. from early adopters.
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