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  #3976  
Old 06-27-2020, 07:46 PM
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Any unhappy Tesla owner probably prefers not to be ridiculed by Tesla enthusiasts, and quietly acts and/or plans with minimal fanfare.
Anyone can have a bad experience with any car brand and never purchase another one and tell others that a certain brand is junk. But every tesla owner I know loves their car and plans on staying with Tesla.
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  #3977  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:51 PM
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  #3978  
Old 06-28-2020, 12:44 AM
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Stopped by Tesla today...
Showroom is a bit light in foot traffic, so which city was this showroom at?
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  #3979  
Old 06-28-2020, 12:52 AM
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Stopped by Tesla today...
One thing leaps out at me is that a mid-level Honda Civic's interior would be a big step up. Given its price I would not buy a car with an interior that looks like its out of an entry level car.
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  #3980  
Old 06-28-2020, 06:50 AM
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One thing leaps out at me is that a mid-level Honda Civic's interior would be a big step up. Given its price I would not buy a car with an interior that looks like its out of an entry level car.
The way a Tesla drives makes all other cars feel like an entry level car.
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  #3981  
Old 06-28-2020, 12:02 PM
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With our model 3, in the first year and 8 months of ownership while putting 24k miles on the car, we've had a total of 5 problems. 4 of them existed when the car was delivered and included 3 minor cosmetic issues and a headlight that water got into. Tesla took care of the headlight and 2 of the cosmetic issues with a visit to the service center. For the last cosmetic issue, they ordered the part, and when it came in, one of their "Rangers" came to my home and installed it.

The only other problem that has cropped up has been excessive wear on the outside edges of the front tires due to too much toe in. This took about 12k miles to show up. Tesla wouldn't fix it under warranty, so I took it to an alignment shop that fixed it for $60. For the first couple of years and 24k miles, I'd actually say our Tesla is one of the most reliable new cars I've ever owned. In fact, the only new car I've ever owned that had significantly fewer problems in a similar time/distance is a 2005 Lotus Elise. Who'd have thought.

I see good and bad. Good is that there were no major problems. Bad is that there were 5 problems. My F30 had no (zero) problems the first 90 days, which is JD Powers' time period and none in the first 2 years. It had one problem during the first 4 years, a loose tail light, which is very common to the model.

I see 3 problems of the Tesla without driving one. One is the lack of a manual transmission. On the other hand, it's electric and also the current 3 series lacks a manual. So BMW stooped to the level of Tesla, which helps Tesla.

Second problem is that I am very wary of a touch screen. Heating, AC, radio, lights should all be large manual switches. I fault BMW for having a decent but not great design. I could change my mind about the touch screen problem if I actually try it out on a Tesla. Most likely, I would partly change my mind but still have some reservations.

Third problem is that I sometimes drive 150 miles away then drive 40 miles at the destination then 150 miles back. There's no convenient place to recharge. With my BMW, I start with a full tank, drive 310 of the 340 miles, fill up with cheaper gas in a town along the way, then drive the remaining 30 miles home.

With a Tesla, I'm just now figuring it out. Drive 150+40+30 miles = 220 miles. Then charge at a non-V3 Tesla Supercharger for 20 minutes (roughly $6). I wonder if I can go 120 miles with the remaining battery life + 20 extra minutes of charge? My rough calculations is that I cannot get home if the 20 minutes of extra charge is by a slow home recharge, I could get home if the Supercharger is upgraded to V3, but unknown about the current state of Superchargers.
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  #3982  
Old 06-28-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
I see good and bad. Good is that there were no major problems. Bad is that there were 5 problems. My F30 had no (zero) problems the first 90 days, which is JD Powers' time period and none in the first 2 years. It had one problem during the first 4 years, a loose tail light, which is very common to the model.

I see 3 problems of the Tesla without driving one. One is the lack of a manual transmission. On the other hand, it's electric and also the current 3 series lacks a manual. So BMW stooped to the level of Tesla, which helps Tesla.

Second problem is that I am very wary of a touch screen. Heating, AC, radio, lights should all be large manual switches. I fault BMW for having a decent but not great design. I could change my mind about the touch screen problem if I actually try it out on a Tesla. Most likely, I would partly change my mind but still have some reservations.

Third problem is that I sometimes drive 150 miles away then drive 40 miles at the destination then 150 miles back. There's no convenient place to recharge. With my BMW, I start with a full tank, drive 310 of the 340 miles, fill up with cheaper gas in a town along the way, then drive the remaining 30 miles home.

With a Tesla, I'm just now figuring it out. Drive 150+40+30 miles = 220 miles. Then charge at a non-V3 Tesla Supercharger for 20 minutes (roughly $6). I wonder if I can go 120 miles with the remaining battery life + 20 extra minutes of charge? My rough calculations is that I cannot get home if the 20 minutes of extra charge is by a slow home recharge, I could get home if the Supercharger is upgraded to V3, but unknown about the current state of Superchargers.

If your traveling a lot of miles daily then a Tesla can be a pain. That is the only real downfall I see with Tesla, not good if your going 300 miles a day. But for 99% of my driving the 300 miles is more than enough. Unless you can afford a new model S that has a 400 mile range.

Last edited by mull6; 06-28-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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  #3983  
Old 06-28-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
I see good and bad. Good is that there were no major problems. Bad is that there were 5 problems. My F30 had no (zero) problems the first 90 days, which is JD Powers' time period and none in the first 2 years. It had one problem during the first 4 years, a loose tail light, which is very common to the model.

I see 3 problems of the Tesla without driving one. One is the lack of a manual transmission. On the other hand, it's electric and also the current 3 series lacks a manual. So BMW stooped to the level of Tesla, which helps Tesla.

Second problem is that I am very wary of a touch screen. Heating, AC, radio, lights should all be large manual switches. I fault BMW for having a decent but not great design. I could change my mind about the touch screen problem if I actually try it out on a Tesla. Most likely, I would partly change my mind but still have some reservations.

Third problem is that I sometimes drive 150 miles away then drive 40 miles at the destination then 150 miles back. There's no convenient place to recharge. With my BMW, I start with a full tank, drive 310 of the 340 miles, fill up with cheaper gas in a town along the way, then drive the remaining 30 miles home.

With a Tesla, I'm just now figuring it out. Drive 150+40+30 miles = 220 miles. Then charge at a non-V3 Tesla Supercharger for 20 minutes (roughly $6). I wonder if I can go 120 miles with the remaining battery life + 20 extra minutes of charge? My rough calculations is that I cannot get home if the 20 minutes of extra charge is by a slow home recharge, I could get home if the Supercharger is upgraded to V3, but unknown about the current state of Superchargers.
Actually, Teslas don't have a transmission, which is a good thing. It's one less major part of the car to break or require maintenance, and is one of the primary reasons that Teslas have instant throttle response, no time wasted shifting gears.

I really think you'd find the touch screen to be a non-issue once you got used to it, especially since most functions can be voice controlled now.

Regarding your third "problem", I'd like to make one clarification. While a V3 supercharger is faster than a V2 supercharger at low charge levels, the total difference in time charging from a low level of charge to a medium or high level of charge only amounts to 2 to 3 minutes. If starting with a medium level of charge, there's no difference between V2 and V3. The V2 superchargers work very well; the biggest advantage of the V3 superchargers is simply allowing each supercharger to charge more cars over a period of time.

For a 340 mile trip, I would normally plan on one charging stop of 15 to 30 minutes, with the time dependent primarily on if you charge up from a low state of charge or a high state of charge. The charging rate is faster when the overall charge of the battery is lower, so it's more efficient from a time standpoint to charge up later in your trip than earlier if possible. On a 340 mile trip, just plan a food stop to coincide with a charging stop, and the car would be done charging by the time you're done eating.

If you want to get a realistic estimate of your trip time and charging requirements, abetterrouteplanner.com works very well. Go into settings to select the particular vehicle you're routing and to change any of the defaults. For information about specific superchargers, https://supercharge.info/map is a good source. Just point at each location, and it will tell you the number of stalls and max charger rate. 250kw are V3, 120kw or 150kw are V2, and 72kw are urban chargers.

Last edited by GregD; 06-28-2020 at 05:39 PM.
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  #3984  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:02 PM
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Again until you own one you have no idea of what your missing. The large touch screen displays the speed in the upper left corner which is just as easy to see if not easier than a speedometer that you have to look down to see.

The model 3 does not have motorized door handles. The other alleged problems you point out are weak at best. I will say it again my wife and I have been driving BMW's for 15 years and have really enjoyed them and I'm still driving a 535I right now. But nothing that I have ever driven comes close to a Tesla and my next car will be a model S.
That is a choice of folks who know little about the tech. Model S chassis has many flaws. It's an old design and hasn't been fixed. But feel free to go for it. The only worse choice than that if you pick an X. Model 3 thousand times better. Model Y is an improvement over the 3 if someone was able to manufacture it properly.

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  #3985  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:04 PM
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That is a choice of folks who know little about the tech. Model S chassis has many flaws. It's an old design and hasn't been fixed. But feel free to go for it. The only worse choice than that if you pick an X. Model 3 thousand times better. Model Y is an improvement over the 3 if someone was able to manufacture it properly.
And as usual .. we love the car ELON, even though it's a junk we love you and the car
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  #3986  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:11 PM
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Model 3 with detached steering wheel. #safest car

https://gulfnews.com/auto/news/brand....1589271824611
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  #3987  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:15 PM
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:15 PM
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I can't think of a reason why I would buy anything from Elon.
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  #3989  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:18 PM
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Model Y is an improvement over the 3 if someone was able to manufacture it properly.
What is the list of Model Y defects this specific owner encounter?
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  #3990  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:21 PM
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Model 3 with detached steering wheel. #safest car

https://gulfnews.com/auto/news/brand....1589271824611
Ford had a similar issue in 2019 Jeep Wranglers that required a recall of 1.3m units, but hardly any similar complaints in Japan/Euro brands.
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  #3991  
Old 06-28-2020, 02:25 PM
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What is the list of Model Y defects this specific owner encounter?




She returned it:


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Old 06-28-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mull6 View Post
If your traveling a lot of miles daily then a Tesla can be a pain. That is the only real downfall I see with Tesla, not good if your going 300 miles a day. But for 99% of my driving the 300 miles is more than enough. Unless you can afford a new model S that has a 400 mile range.
Tesla owners in my circle of contacts love to gloat about their time well [email protected] on road trips, but the eye rollings from their spouses and kids tell the real stories.

Breaking away from cult mentality is what makes real changes happen.
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Old 06-28-2020, 02:40 PM
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She returned it:
That is great return policy.

It has been 3 years since Model 3 delivery and Tesla still can't figure out how to align body panels ....

One specific area of misalignment was A pillar bottom meeting top of side fender, over the years showroom and friend's Model 3's A pillars usually stick out/in by different amounts between left and right.

The latest incarnation at show room unit was that both A pillars sticking out the same amount, so even though the panels are not flush, at least left and right were symmetrical!
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:26 PM
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That is a choice of folks who know little about the tech. Model S chassis has many flaws. It's an old design and hasn't been fixed. But feel free to go for it. The only worse choice than that if you pick an X. Model 3 thousand times better. Model Y is an improvement over the 3 if someone was able to manufacture it properly.

Really what are all these problems with the model S that you claim.
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Old 06-28-2020, 03:29 PM
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I can't think of a reason why I would buy anything from Elon.
Well just stay with outdated ICE cars and miss out on the real ultimate driving machine.
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  #3996  
Old 06-28-2020, 04:01 PM
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Really what are all these problems with the model S that you claim.
Side pole collision from 25-30mph. Battery cells get crushed, high chance of a fire.
Front pole collision from 55-60mph. Battery cells get crushed, high chance of a fire.

Additionally Model S scores lower in occupant protection than other cars. Model 3 much better there (and it's not the best, there are several cars that beat it)
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:03 PM
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Side pole collision from 25-30mph. Battery cells get crushed, high chance of a fire.
Front pole collision from 55-60mph. Battery cells get crushed, high chance of a fire.

Additionally Model S scores lower in occupant protection than other cars. Model 3 much better there (and it's not the best, there are several cars that beat it)
That's strange because tesla cars were rated some of the safest cars on the road in all the tests that I read. You say there are several cars that beat the model 3. How many are several? Several out of thousands of cars sounds like Tesla is awfully close to the top.

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Old 06-28-2020, 04:16 PM
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That's strange because tesla cars were rated some of the safest cars on the road in all the tests that I read. You say there are several cars that beat the model 3. How many are several? Several out of thousands of cars sounds like Tesla is awfully close to the top.

No, that's BS from Elon. You can look up the results by yourself.

By the way the Model S designer Peter Rawlinson is releasing a new car where he fixed everything that went wrong with the S. It's called Lucid.
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:42 PM
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Some of these last 10 posts confirm my suspicions. There is a learning curve for car design like I originally mentioned somewhat. The 3 being better designed than the earlier S.

I didn't find out how the heating system works. It's obviously not radiator coolant that's redirected like in a normal car. It could be battery power so it would save power to wear a thicker coat.

I also see that a trip to a city 150 miles away, 40 miles at the destination and 150 miles back with a 20 minute recharge as a stop on the return might be possible. In my scenario, there's no practical way to recharge at the destination. Looking at various articles, with a V2 supercharger, recharging varies with temperature, remaining battery power left, if the battery is preconditioned on the way to the charger (or similar term) and if there's another car charging at the paired supercharger. I predict 20 minutes adds anywhere from 20% to 50%. I also predict that at the end of 150+40+30 (210 miles) that the battery will have 15% left. If so 15% + (20 to 50) = 35-65%. To me, that would mean needing some extra recharging time beyond 20 minutes if it were 35% but if 65% then it would be enough to get home.
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Step by step instructions when a hood release cable needs replacement. https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=981724
SIB 11 13 15 oil filter housing for the F30 - metal since mid-2013 and can be retrofitted without charge
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  #4000  
Old 06-28-2020, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave 20T View Post
Some of these last 10 posts confirm my suspicions. There is a learning curve for car design like I originally mentioned somewhat. The 3 being better designed than the earlier S.

I didn't find out how the heating system works. It's obviously not radiator coolant that's redirected like in a normal car. It could be battery power so it would save power to wear a thicker coat.

I also see that a trip to a city 150 miles away, 40 miles at the destination and 150 miles back with a 20 minute recharge as a stop on the return might be possible. In my scenario, there's no practical way to recharge at the destination. Looking at various articles, with a V2 supercharger, recharging varies with temperature, remaining battery power left, if the battery is preconditioned on the way to the charger (or similar term) and if there's another car charging at the paired supercharger. I predict 20 minutes adds anywhere from 20% to 50%. I also predict that at the end of 150+40+30 (210 miles) that the battery will have 15% left. If so 15% + (20 to 50) = 35-65%. To me, that would mean needing some extra recharging time beyond 20 minutes if it were 35% but if 65% then it would be enough to get home.
On the Models S, X, and 3, heating is done by an electrical resistive element. The Model Y uses a more efficient heat pump system. You can save energy and extend your range on cold days by reducing the HVAC temp and wearing a coat. That said, it's really not worth worrying about.

At the end of driving 150+40+30 (220 miles), you should have about 20% of battery left if you started with 90% state of charge. If you started with 100% state of charge, you should have about 30% left. With a V3 Supercharger, recharging varies with temperature, remaining battery power left, and if the battery is preconditioned on the way to the charger. The only part that can affect V2 Supercharger charge rates that can't affect the V3 is paired superchargers, which is only a problem if more than half are in use.

Going with your original 340 mile trip, you should only have 120 miles left to make it home. Unless you have a large increase in altitude in the last 120 miles, a 50% charge should be plenty and give you a more than adequate safety margin. Realistically, charging from 30% to 50% normally takes less than 10 minutes on a V2 supercharger.

The total battery size is about 75kWh, so 20% is 15kWh. If you're charging on a V2 or V3 supercharger, it can normally maintain a charge rate of just under 150kWh up to the 50% point, so 6 minutes of charging optimally, but usually about 10% to 15% slower in actual use, so call it 7 minutes. Even if you have a paired V2 Supercharger use situation, you're still under 15 minutes to charge.

P.S. I'm assuming a long range Model 3, like I have, in the estimates above. According to the specs, a long range Model Y should be similar, but performance Model 3s and Ys, and otherTeslas would take more charging time except for a new Model S which should be able to make the whole trip without charging.

Last edited by GregD; 06-28-2020 at 06:12 PM.
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