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  #4101  
Old 07-03-2020, 11:39 AM
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Well thats it Im returning my Tesla because they didnt paint the whole frame with body color paint. That completely ruins the car and makes it not worth driving.
I would run very far from a company who does this.
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  #4102  
Old 07-03-2020, 12:56 PM
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Munro Model Y tear down E7:

Wow Munro said "uber strong", so Model Y has much improved front sheet metal and SORB design than Model 3, that by itself should be an incentive to trade in Model 3 for Model Y!

So Model Y still skips body paint on certain parts.

How does BMW wire its front radar and pedestrian loudspeaker(if equipped)? Those wiring should be relatively heavy duty, so with or without corrugated tubes may not matter as much, esp. when front bumper is not usually high-temp application.

It is possible Tesla takes another tack to use light duty wires, and enclose in corrugated tubes. Munro or some other consulting firm can delve in a G-series BMW to compare.

Also the corrugated tubes prevent splicing needed for aftermarket parts, so that can be a reason too.

The outside mounted hex bolt on wheel hub can prevent non-factory rims to be installed(as described by Munro), but someone commented under video that that bolt can be removed.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/04...s-uber-strong/

Last edited by namelessman; 07-03-2020 at 12:57 PM.
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  #4103  
Old 07-03-2020, 01:11 PM
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How is your experience owning those 8 BMW's 30-40k to 100k? Any expensive out-of-pocket expense?
Not really after all the talk of how much rip off BMWs maintenance is I cannot complain. Of course I dont bring my cars to the stealership and I change oil myself plus do as much maintenance myself as possible. Like brakes, plugs, filters and belts.

A lot of people told me was really gambling buying used BMWs without extended maintenance. I only had warranties on a couple of them. We had a couple thermostats that I had done and other than that just usual brakes normal wear and tear maintenance.

I did have a 2013 528I that gave me the dreaded low oil pressure warning. Lucky for me I had 64K miles on it and just a few weeks prior bmw sent me an extended warranty for the timing chain to he covered up to 70K miles. The motor didnt get ruined and the dealership did the timing chain job free of charge.
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  #4104  
Old 07-03-2020, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mull6 View Post
Not really after all the talk of how much rip off BMW's maintenance is I cannot complain. Of course I don't bring my cars to the stealership and I change oil myself plus do as much maintenance myself as possible. Like brakes, plugs, filters and belts.

A lot of people told me was really gambling buying used BMW's without extended maintenance. I only had warranties on a couple of them. We had a couple thermostats that I had done and other than that just usual brakes normal wear and tear maintenance.

I did have a 2013 528I that gave me the dreaded low oil pressure warning. Lucky for me I had 64K miles on it and just a few weeks prior bmw sent me an extended warranty for the timing chain to he covered up to 70K miles. The motor didn't get ruined and the dealership did the timing chain job free of charge.
That sounds like honest, positive, owner's experience.

My first BMW was E39 bought new, for 12 years and 100k miles. No ESC, and total out of pocket repair + maintenance + tires was $7k.

Out of $7k, $3k was at last 18 months for brakes and pre-emptive cooling systems and tires and other stuff to refresh and prep for sales.

The current one is F30 N26 bought new, 7.5 years and 75k miles so far, also no ESC.

TC was not done before 7 yr/70k ELW expiration, at the same time, my TC is still quiet and smooth, no CEL(which will be great for PZEV coverage).

And dealer foremen and trusted indies all gave A-OK verdicts for now.

All oil changes are at dealer since 5 miles on odometer, paying $50(with coupons) to $95 outside of 4 yrs/50k free maintenance, just to maintain PZEV warranty.

The latest LL17FE 0w20 is worth trying, the N26 sounds even quieter than previous LL01FE 0w30, as long as no track days and high-temp operations and such.

Last edited by namelessman; 07-03-2020 at 01:34 PM.
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  #4105  
Old 07-03-2020, 01:41 PM
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That sounds like honest, positive, owner's experience.

My first BMW was E39 bought new, for 12 years and 100k miles. No ESC, and total out of pocket repair + maintenance + tires was $7k.

Out of $7k, $3k was at last 18 months for brakes and pre-emptive cooling systems and tires and other stuff to refresh and prep for sales.

The current one is F30 N26 bought new, 7.5 years and 75k miles so far, also no ESC.

TC was not done before 7 yr/70k ELW expiration, at the same time, my TC is still quiet and smooth, and dealer foremen and trusted indies all gave A-OK verdicts for now.

All oil changes are at dealer since 5 miles on odometer, paying $50(with coupons) to $95 outside of 4 yrs/50k free maintenance, just to maintain PZEV warranty.

The latest LL17FE 0w20 is worth trying, the N26 sounds even quieter than previous LL01FE 0w30, as long as no track days and high-temp operations and such.

Yes my experience has been positive even though I was nervous on my first few bimmers because of all the horror stories I heard about the high maintenance costs. The parts are expensive brake rotors and pads just for the front are around $350.00 which is definitely more than the domestic cars I owned in the past. But they are better quality than the domestic cars I owned in and since I do them myself its not that bad.

The first brake job I had done at an indy and it was $600.00 which I thought was pretty high. Then after checking out YouTube videos and realizing that the brakes are just as easy on a bmw as any other car I did brakes myself.

To have new thermostat put in at indy the cost was $600.00 so that is a lot higher than most cars. But that was the highest I had to pay for any maintenance on all the BMWs I have owned. So my maintenance was not near as bad as I expected but of course a lot of that has to do with doing most jobs myself.
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  #4106  
Old 07-03-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mull6 View Post
Yes my experience has been positive even though I was nervous on my first few bimmers because of all the horror stories I heard about the high maintenance costs. The parts are expensive brake rotors and pads just for the front are around $350.00 which is definitely more than the domestic cars I owned in the past. But they are better quality than the domestic cars I owned in and since I do them myself its not that bad.
The old E39 has expensive parts, brake pads + rotors + labor per axle $500, but it was changed after 90k miles, so it was not too bad. E39/E46 are famous for cooling system issues, so $1k+ for an overhaul was done to replace thermostat, radiator, expansion tank, water pump, hoses, etc, etc.

The current F30 has relatively cheap BMW-logo parts, e.g. a few years ago, the BMW engine air filter was $3.50 each from dealer online parts, made in France! Wiper blade sets were $9.50, cabin activated filter $25. Those are the DIY parts stocked for this F30.

In addition, non-sport rear pad set from dealer was $30, sensor wire $15, rotors $75 x 2 = $150, so less than $200 BMW-logo parts were collected so far. The plan is to pay $150-$200 labor to install when the time comes.

Those labor and parts prices approach local Honda/Toyota rates, e.g. turning Honda rotors + pads easily goes for $250 at local indies/dealers.
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  #4107  
Old 07-04-2020, 09:36 AM
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Munro Model Y teardown E8:

Munro's right, gap consistency(and in my mind symmetry) projects quality, and for now Tesla is still working on this category.

So plastic upper arm + screws are what RAM uses as well for off-road, and cheaper than bind + port, and that translates to saved cost for customers.

To re-quote Autoputzer, "Every process can be improved. A lot of process improvements can be measured in money."

The under frunk setup of Model Y looks more compact than Model 3(and Munro said the same).
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  #4108  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:29 AM
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It's been all BMW's for the last 15 years and now my wife drives a Tesla. Which makes all ICE cars very boring to drive. Your are driving in the past in your grandpa's car, but I am driving the future driving machines. No silly gas and oil needed and noisy jerky feeling. The Tesla is instant torque and super smooth performance that your out of date cars cannot come close to.
Yeah, Gramp's (usual family usage) personal daily driver might be noisy, jerky, primitive, brutal, loud and unforgiving, sub 3 seconds to 60, with all the refinement of a medieval battle ax its anything but boring.

Two brands in 15 years, can understand your boredom, very boring indeed. Based on your track record (no implied performance usage) can understand why a nice quiet boring no soul people capsule would appeal to you. Snooze much while the capsule drives you around?

Guy claims to be bored with BMW yet his experience for 15 years is buy an used BMW, run it to 100K unload it, buy another used BMW, run it to 100K, unload it.......repeat, repeat. Amazed it took 15 long years of self inflicted boredom before the major breakout to wait; a nice, quite, smooth, boring, people capsule.
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  #4109  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:41 AM
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An inquisitive Tesla owner made a video about why ICEs have long way to go.

It is a nice summary of the pros and cons discussed in the last 4100+ posts on this thread.

And a followup video was added when this guy was hammered by EV/Tesla enthusiasts.



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  #4110  
Old 07-05-2020, 09:57 AM
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Munro Model Y teardown E9:

So Munro dug into the frunk hood issue, and discovered that the hood hinges, and the lock latch unit, were adjusted(based on witness marks) possibly due to the frunk panel missing a christmas tree, and a lost cowl clip.

So there are two problems, first with trunk panel, second with [email protected] and/or delivery that incorrectly realigned the trunk hood and latch.

The simplified Model Y aero shield again looks like improved process, with reduced costs(although Munro said similar costs), that can benefits customers.

The Model Y front SO cross-car beam and strut tower braces look sturdier than Model 3's, "prevents parallelogram" as Munro said.

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No, one problem since the panel problem caused the latching problem.
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  #4111  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:54 AM
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Yeah, Gramp's (usual family usage) personal daily driver might be noisy, jerky, primitive, brutal, loud and unforgiving, sub 3 seconds to 60, with all the refinement of a medieval battle ax its anything but boring.

Two brands in 15 years, can understand your boredom, very boring indeed. Based on your track record (no implied performance usage) can understand why a nice quiet boring no soul people capsule would appeal to you. Snooze much while the capsule drives you around?

Guy claims to be bored with BMW yet his experience for 15 years is buy an used BMW, run it to 100K unload it, buy another used BMW, run it to 100K, unload it.......repeat, repeat. Amazed it took 15 long years of self inflicted boredom before the major breakout to wait; a nice, quite, smooth, boring, people capsule.

I said I enjoyed BMWs, regardless of brand I get bored of the same car after a few years so I like to change vehicles every few years. Years back I drove SUVs then I drove some domestic sedans and after enjoying driving my wifes bmw so much I started driving them.

Purchased a 535I a year ago and still driving it now and its a very nice car, but it is not near as enjoyable to drive as my wifes model 3 is. Until you have owned a Tesla and driven one for an extended period of time you have no idea of how nice they are.
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  #4112  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:08 PM
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Yeah, Gramp's (usual family usage) personal daily driver might be noisy, jerky, primitive, brutal, loud and unforgiving, sub 3 seconds to 60, with all the refinement of a medieval battle ax its anything but boring.

Two brands in 15 years, can understand your boredom, very boring indeed. Based on your track record (no implied performance usage) can understand why a nice quiet boring no soul people capsule would appeal to you. Snooze much while the capsule drives you around?

Guy claims to be bored with BMW yet his experience for 15 years is buy an used BMW, run it to 100K unload it, buy another used BMW, run it to 100K, unload it.......repeat, repeat. Amazed it took 15 long years of self inflicted boredom before the major breakout to wait; a nice, quite, smooth, boring, people capsule.
As long as he enjoys them, why not? I was fine with the BMW world until they came out the new 5series which I don't find as appealing. We also need an X7 size car, but that front isn't my favorite either. i4 however looks good.
I have been looking for a new car for 1 year now, but this stick shift 550i is still very enjoyable after 6 years. People aren't the same.
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  #4113  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:34 PM
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I have been looking for a new car for 1 year now, but this stick shift 550i is still very enjoyable after 6 years. People aren't the same.
Is that a 6MT E60 550i with V8 N/A engine? 2010 was E60's last model year, which supposedly is the most reliable for any BMW models, and with most goodies!

What mileage and how much are out-of-pocket costs?

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  #4114  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:39 PM
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Wow, I have never seen such move. But Tesla is the best.

Shortened warranty on a problematic part. On the older S people kept replacing drive units under warranty every 60k mi. Looks like Tesla doesn't want the same with the MCUs.
I just noticed they shortened the warranty for replacement drive units as well, now it's 50k.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/04/tesla...t-touchscreen/
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  #4115  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:50 PM
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Is that a 6MT E60 550i with V8 N/A engine? 2010 was E60's last model year, which supposedly is the most reliable for any BMW models, and with most goodies!

What mileage and how much are out-of-pocket costs?
I'm at 115k mi now. I spend money on maintenance based on a schedule so I do a lot of preventive maintenance and use BMW parts only. If I summed that up, must be a lot of money. Did water pump, thermostat, control arms, exp tank, belts, spark plugs.

As for reliability, I had a few annoying things. One tiny coolant vent hose cracked at around 95k mi (didn't leave me stranded) as it was a minor leak. Then just now I blew the major coolant hose out of my stupidity, this time it got me stranded. I was also chasing a fuel tank leak warning for a year which turned out to be a $5 seal on the top of the tank. Most expensive - labor but that's free for me as I DIY - was fixing up all the engine oil leaks at the 100k mi mark. It's very tight there in the engine compartment of a V8.

Basically before I reached 95k mi I only had collision related repairs plus maintenance.
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  #4116  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:53 PM
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As long as he enjoys them, why not?
That goes both ways. Seems like 2 or 3 guys are here extolling the virtues of a specific brand that has nothing to do with the forums branding. Then you all turn around & complain when there is some push back.

Personally I do care what you drive. Not wedded to BMW have 5 different brands sitting in the driveway right now domestic, imported & home built.

Just struck me as something very weird that anyone of sound mind & body with any kind of varied automotive experience could make this statement about an Tesla "I enjoy driving the most fun and unique vehicle ever made".

The most fun car ever made What kind of varied automotive experience with pure fun cars does this suggest to you?

The most unique vehicle ever made Its a freeken electric car. They have been making them since before the Spanish American war in the US & longer in Europe. When I was in grammar school 1940's/1950's the commercial laundry down the street had a fleet of all electric delivery trucks. Most home delivered milk was by electric trucks. Both electric vehicle manufactures went out of business by the 1960's. Cheap fuel, lack of product diversification & lack of infrastructure killed them.

Expect this might be a more unique & the way the guys were driving more fun than a Tesla.

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  #4117  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:54 PM
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Wow, I have never seen such move. But Tesla is the best.

Shortened warranty on a problematic part. On the older S people kept replacing drive units under warranty every 60k mi. Looks like Tesla doesn't want the same with the MCUs.
I just noticed they shortened the warranty for replacement drive units as well, now it's 50k.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/04/tesla...t-touchscreen/
BMW replacement part within first 4 yrs/50k miles is covered until end of new car warranty, is that how Tesla works too?

It seems the wordings means if MCUs fail in, say, 1-yr/10k miles, the replacement part is only covered till 3-yr/35k miles, but not till full term of 4-yr/50k new car warranty, correct?
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  #4118  
Old 07-05-2020, 12:59 PM
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BMW replacement part within first 4 yrs/50k miles is covered until end of new car warranty, is that how Tesla works too?

It seems the wordings means if MCUs fail in, say, 1-yr/10k miles, the replacement part is only covered till 3-yr/35k miles, but not till full term of 4-yr/50k new car warranty, correct?
US law isn't clear to me. But I'm originally from Europe. Over there every replacement part comes with the original warranty. If engine blows at 50k, then the warranty starts over, so it will be good until 100k. Dealer can't deviate from that. So regardless what Tesla said, it would be an additional 50k.
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Old 07-05-2020, 01:15 PM
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That goes both ways. Seems like 2 or 3 guys are here extolling the virtues of a specific brand that has nothing to do with the forums branding. Then you all turn around & complain when there is some push back.

Personally I do care what you drive. Not wedded to BMW have 5 different brands sitting in the driveway right now domestic, imported & home built.

Just struck me as something very weird that anyone of sound mind & body with any kind of varied automotive experience could make this statement about an Tesla "I enjoy driving the most fun and unique vehicle ever made".

The most fun car ever made What kind of varied automotive experience with pure fun cars does this suggest to you?

The most unique vehicle ever made Its a freeken electric car. They have been making them since before the Spanish American war in the US & longer in Europe. When I was in grammar school 1940's/1950's the commercial laundry down the street had a fleet of all electric delivery trucks. Most home delivered milk was by electric trucks. Both electric vehicle manufactures went out of business by the 1960's. Cheap fuel, lack of product diversification & lack of infrastructure killed them.

Expect this might be a more unique & the way the guys were driving more fun than a Tesla.

This doesn't mean I don't drive other cars. I travel overseas frequently and rent cars. Occasionally at home as well when I want to try a specific model, I rent it for a weekend. Wife's car isn't a BMW either.
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Old 07-05-2020, 01:18 PM
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US law isn't clear to me. But I'm originally from Europe. Over there every replacement part comes with the original warranty. If engine blows at 50k, then the warranty starts over, so it will be good until 100k. Dealer can't deviate from that. So regardless what Tesla said, it would be an additional 50k.
Ah MCU fails under "Parts, Body and Paint Repair Limited Warranty", it starts from the purchase date of the (replacement) parts, so this is after first 4 years/50k miles of new car warranty.

For BMW, it is 2 years/unlimited mileages, so Tesla's 2 years/25k miles are not too bad.

https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty

"The Tesla Parts, Body & Paint Repair Limited Warranty begins on the purchase date of the part(s), and coverage extends for a period of 12 months or 12,500 miles, which ever comes first. Specific categories of parts have unique warranty coverage periods:

Sheet metal: Limited lifetime
Drive Unit: 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first
Vehicle High Voltage Battery: 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first*
Wall Connectors: 4 years
Touchscreen and Media Control Unit: 2 years or 25,000 miles, whichever comes first"
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Old 07-05-2020, 01:24 PM
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...
Not sure where you live but here in California most car brands are available on Turo. Even few years old 911s, 2017 is the newest I found.
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  #4122  
Old 07-05-2020, 01:36 PM
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That goes both ways. Seems like 2 or 3 guys are here extolling the virtues of a specific brand that has nothing to do with the forums branding. Then you all turn around & complain when there is some push back.
After going through less than 1/4th of Model Y teardown, my impression is that Tesla is improving, but still misses basics that are bread and butter of other premium(or even econo) brands.

E.g. Model 3/X/S(not sure about Y) has no rear door mechanical handle, hmm, how to exit rear without power?

Tesla's solution is pull handles hidden behind rubber mats and small covers ....

So my strategy is Tesla front passenger seat[/B] if needed, or as chauffeur of the group in my BMW!


Last edited by namelessman; 07-05-2020 at 01:56 PM.
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  #4123  
Old 07-06-2020, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by acoste View Post
This doesn't mean I don't drive other cars. I travel overseas frequently and rent cars. Occasionally at home as well when I want to try a specific model, I rent it for a weekend. Wife's car isn't a BMW either.
That's nice. I have lived overseas, still own a house in Bucks, England. During the 8 years of my residence drove Rover, Range Rover, MB, Jaguar, Porsche & BMW. Did not own any of them they were leased by the firm. We had like most British firms are car list for employees down to section manager. Was part of the compensation package. With the Road Tax & other BS just not a good plan to own a personal car in England.

Usually rented cars when across the Chanel as UK right hand drive cars are a pain in the butt on roads designed for left hand drive cars.

The wife does not have a specific car that is hers, she takes anything other than the COBRA with its heavy clutch & manual steering. She can still drive most anything, learned on a '66 GTO 4MT back in the day.

Turo has a location here in town but have not used them. Will typically go to a dealer it I want to take ride in one of their cars.
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CURRENT:
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1998 Ford Ranger 4X4 Splash 5MT
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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 07-06-2020 at 04:20 AM.
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  #4124  
Old 07-06-2020, 01:19 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Munro Model Y teardown E10: Rear door manual lever(or lack of!)

In E10, Munro answered my question if Model Y adds per rear door child lock switch, and mechanical door open lever, and the answer is no.

So Tesla stays steady about its decision to have hidden pull cords behind panels/covers, just like Model S/X/3.

There are Tesla forum posts that mentioned that Model Y rear doors/trunk power open buttons can be disabled in a pair, but not independently, my assumption is that Model 3/X have the same.

Some potential buyers at work drop Tesla for this specific rear door design choice.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/02/28/...ok-door-locks/
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  #4125  
Old 07-06-2020, 03:57 PM
namelessman namelessman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mull6 View Post
did have a 2013 528I that gave me the dreaded low oil pressure warning. Lucky for me I had 64K miles on it and just a few weeks prior bmw sent me an extended warranty for the timing chain to he covered up to 70K miles. The motor didn't get ruined and the dealership did the timing chain job free of charge.
Breaking news, BMWNA and plaintiffs are asking for 2 weeks extra time for the N20/N26 TC class action settlement conference.

The reason cited is: "The parties are nearing completion of a final Settlement Agreement".

E.g. if extended to 10 years/150k miles, your replacement parts will have extended coverage too.
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